Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Jan Suhr on 14 September 2019, 18:52:46

Title: Cam belt dust?
Post by: Jan Suhr on 14 September 2019, 18:52:46
I'm at the moment doing the bastard job of replacing the thermostat on one of my V6 cars and I can see that there are some black dust and fuzz from the cam belt I guess.
Is this normal? Or would it be urgent to replace the belt before anything really bad happens.  I haven't seen this fuzz on other V6's  I've changed the belt on.

Belt was changed by former owner at about 30000 km ago, he let a shop do it for him. So it has about half of its life left.


Thanks


Jan
Title: Re: Cam belt dust?
Post by: dave the builder on 14 September 2019, 19:08:31
If there is any doubt ,I'd remove the covers and look, and by the time you've done that, you may as well change it .
some garages just replace the belt ,not the rollers , some just tick the book and do nothing  >:(
Title: Re: Cam belt dust?
Post by: Shackeng on 14 September 2019, 19:16:02
Sadly, certainly in the UK, such jobs are often given to pimply youths as a training job, so it’s a lottery if it is done properly.  :( :( :(
Title: Re: Cam belt dust?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 14 September 2019, 19:59:07
Easier to check than hope ;)

Cheaper too...
Title: Re: Cam belt dust?
Post by: dave the builder on 14 September 2019, 20:02:19
Easier to check than hope ;)

Cheaper too...
depends how lucky you are....
which is why I always check  ;D
Title: Re: Cam belt dust?
Post by: Jan Suhr on 14 September 2019, 20:26:10
Since I'm already halfway there I'll better do it now.

Better safe than sorry...

thanks

Title: Re: Cam belt dust?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 14 September 2019, 20:59:59
 :y

At least you will know for certain that it has been done and done right ;)
Title: Re: Cam belt dust?
Post by: Jan Suhr on 14 September 2019, 22:43:44
:y

At least you will know for certain that it has been done and done right ;)

 :y   Exactly, it has just turned 200000km so it is a lot left in her.

Title: Re: Cam belt dust?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 14 September 2019, 22:46:29
Barely run in ;)
Title: Re: Cam belt dust?
Post by: Jan Suhr on 15 September 2019, 09:58:33
It was really bad,  I'm lucky I discovered this in time :o

(http://www.protouring.se/files/omega/bad_cambelt_3.jpg)

(http://www.protouring.se/files/omega/bad_cambelt_1.jpg)

(http://www.protouring.se/files/omega/bad_cambelt_2.jpg)
Title: Re: Cam belt dust?
Post by: dave the builder on 15 September 2019, 10:25:00
is the spacer missing from behind the middle idler pulley ?
glad you caught it before it went bang  :y
Title: Re: Cam belt dust?
Post by: polilara on 15 September 2019, 11:48:19
I had once something similar after having changed the whole kit. The belt seems for me to be a bit behind from its right position. In my case the "tightener" was not direct but slightly bent and guided the belt to back. I had that dust everywhere.
Title: Re: Cam belt dust?
Post by: Jan Suhr on 15 September 2019, 12:45:22
I had once something similar after having changed the whole kit. The belt seems for me to be a bit behind from its right position. In my case the "tightener" was not direct but slightly bent and guided the belt to back. I had that dust everywhere.

Could very well be like that, if you look at the middle wheel it looks like the belt is touching the flange there and that explains the tearing on the backside of the belt.


(http://www.protouring.se/files/omega/bad_cambelt_4.jpg)

Title: Re: Cam belt dust?
Post by: dave the builder on 15 September 2019, 12:52:19
I wonder if there are some defective kits  :-\
there was another recent reported near failure a few weeks back ,can't remember who
is the make of belt and rollers readable Jan Suhr ? :-\
Title: Re: Cam belt dust?
Post by: polilara on 15 September 2019, 12:59:44
https://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=140623.45

This was my old case, belt was in bad location after having changed new kit as I do it after each 60 000 km. Belt was too much back. So I did that time the job twice. Still silent after 30 000 km.
Title: Re: Cam belt dust?
Post by: Jan Suhr on 15 September 2019, 13:11:52
I wonder if there are some defective kits  :-\
there was another recent reported near failure a few weeks back ,can't remember who
is the make of belt and rollers readable Jan Suhr ? :-\

I can check and report back when I do the change in a few days. Have just ordered the parts and expect them on Thursday.
Title: Re: Cam belt dust?
Post by: dave the builder on 15 September 2019, 13:18:04
I wonder if there are some defective kits  :-\
there was another recent reported near failure a few weeks back ,can't remember who
is the make of belt and rollers readable Jan Suhr ? :-\

I can check and report back when I do the change in a few days. Have just ordered the parts and expect them on Thursday.
great , thank you
would be helpful to know what went wrong (defective kit,play or stiff bearing etc ) for future reference  :y
Title: Re: Cam belt dust?
Post by: Enceladus on 16 September 2019, 01:25:33
is the spacer missing from behind the middle idler pulley ?
glad you caught it before it went bang  :y
I too was wondering about that.

I also note that the lower idler roller looks like the eccentric adjustable version used on X25XE/X30XE. However this engine is a Y32SE and these did not have the lower eccentric adjustment. Nothing wrong with using the eccentric, arguably it's a better arrangement, provided of course that the tensioner and rollers are correctly adjusted.

It might well be that somebody swapped the tensioner and idler roller from an earlier X30XE kit onto the Y32SE backplate. Again nothing wrong with doing so provided you don't forget the spacer and use the correct bolt.

Looking at the middle idler roller it seems to me possible that it might never have been correctly correctly adjusted. Or it's moved. Perhaps I'm completely wrong but I would have expected the corner directly above the arrow line to be somewhere around 9 o'clock, depending on wear. It looks to be around 6 o'clock.

So we maybe have a missing spacer washer and incorrect adjustment. Makes me wonder if the person who did this had the proper locking kit or understood how to use it?

And since you asked the question. Any decent kit for these engines will use SKF or INA bearings. Contitech, Gates, SKF kits are all widely availabale and good quality. A number of members simply buy two of these AC Delco kits (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Timing-belt-kit-Vauxhall-Vectra-Calibra-Cavalier-2-5-Omega-2-5-2-6-3-0/222619968296?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649). This obsolete kit doesn't include the lower idler roller so you scavenge one from the tensioner/idler backplate in the 2nd kit and ditch the remaining unwanted parts. In the UK it works out less than half the cost of a full kit. And one kit is still less than the cost of a separate lower idler on it's own.
Title: Re: Cam belt dust?
Post by: Jan Suhr on 23 September 2019, 19:10:56
Hello, I got the parts today, a few days late but now I can fix this.

It looks like they have put in the wrong parts. This is a X26SE of the late ones and that is the belt kit I ordered. The parts that was on the car is apparently wrong. It is a SKF kit so nothing wrong there if it had been the correct one. The tensioners didn't have any tension in them and the cams was a few mm of position, a bit ahead. It was a hassle to get the locks in place when it was this much off.

Now it will be fine with new correct parts.

(http://www.protouring.se/files/omega/belt_part.jpg)
Title: Re: Cam belt dust?
Post by: Enceladus on 23 September 2019, 19:47:29
I suspect that instead of swapping the tensioner roller and upper idler roller onto the correct back-plate for the engine, somebody just put the entire earlier back-plate assembly on.

Please post a picture of the lower idler roller that came in your new kit? And did it come with a spacer washer?
Title: Re: Cam belt dust?
Post by: Jan Suhr on 23 September 2019, 20:11:15
I think that they just ordered the wrong kit.

Yes the new idler came with a washer.

(http://www.protouring.se/files/omega/idler.jpg)
Title: Re: Cam belt dust?
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 24 September 2019, 23:38:47
From memory the v late V6 use a “6b” backplate, but ultimately you should be able to see if the backplate is right or not by how it aligns with the rear cambelt cover.

I’ve seen the dust issues scores of times, including on cars that I’ve set up bang on correct, and changed again 40k later.

Just clean it all up, fit a new cambelt kit, triple check it’s set up correctly, and forget it :y
Title: Re: Cam belt dust?
Post by: Jan Suhr on 25 September 2019, 07:36:05
From memory the v late V6 use a “6b” backplate, but ultimately you should be able to see if the backplate is right or not by how it aligns with the rear cambelt cover.

I’ve seen the dust issues scores of times, including on cars that I’ve set up bang on correct, and changed again 40k later.

Just clean it all up, fit a new cambelt kit, triple check it’s set up correctly, and forget it :y

Yes it is the 6B kit, now it is alright and aligns perfectly.

I'll keep an eye on the dust situation to be sure.