Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: chrisgixer on 30 September 2013, 15:57:31
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First off, I'm not really interested in the usual "what's wrong with the standard brakes" reply. We all know that argument, it's been done to death. Apart from anything else the Mv8 project is GOING to need better brakes, it just is. And some members find the stock items lacking anyway.
So, any thoughts?
I know 2woody suggests ML discs and Audi S4(?) calipers.
Serek has Audi q7 options on callipers and discs, with smaller options too.
Ex Taxi Al has been looking at Monaro and Vxr8 stuff with possibly looking at Ap rotors in Alloy top hats.
Cost is a big one with Ap stuff although its top quality. But I can't help feel we could do better given their £1500 price tag.
I guess we could do with options for those with 16" 17" and 18" wheels, if interested.
On et30 18" irmscher sport stars there is a;
45mm gap from the calliper to the spokes.
60mm gap from the outer disc edge to the wheel.
35mm gap from the calliper to the wheel.
On first glance there appears to be several options from vehicles with a 112mm bolt pattern that fit with slight machining of the hub hole. Brackets will be needed to mount different callipers, and different callipers may well need different brake line fixings, so a good reason to fit braided hoses there.
After thought.
Weight. Bigger discs add a fair amount of weight to the un sprung side of the suspension. Might give wheel bearings and shocks a bit of grief?
Anyway, thoughts gentlemen please. :)
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Oh, and Kev mentioned piston area. :-\
And what to do at the rear. Leave it be?
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The brakes fitted to the Lotus Carlton in 1990 were supposed to be excellent.
Twenty three years on I'm not sure how they would compare with a 'modern' setup. :-\
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You want one of these, sling it around a lamp post when you want to stop.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Admiralty-large-ship-anchor-/221288045000
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On the weight side, the disks are inevitably going to be heavier, but you can get some very light weight alloy calipers which might go some way to compensate.
But.. what is the problem we are trying to solve?
Do we know how the front and rear contribute to that problem? Equally? or.. Is the front or rear end the weak link?
..and piston areas will of course be the main concern, second only to "will it physically fit?". You need to maintain the balance of the system. I'd only be willing to drive the car on the road if I could demonstrate some calculations or testing to show that the system has been competently designed in this respect.
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On my Mot, the fronts were both 4.5 on the gauges, the rears 4.2...
...which ties in with the earlier thoughts on piston area :-\
Opposing pistons a perhaps more mechanically efficient than sliding ones as well...
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Re piston area, are we not talking about a greater area to be taken up by fluid on a bigger caliper, but the travel of the pistons, and hence the fluid in the brake line to that corner of the car, being the same. So master cylinder would be unaffected. :-\
What have I missed? :)
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Try hispec motorsport,they can make custom discs to fit anything :y
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Try Hi-Spec motorsport,they can make custom discs to fit anything :y
And their at the top of my road... http://www.hispecmotorsport.co.uk/
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there is a theoritical limit for the brakes.. and also tyres that you can use on omega .. you have to install very wide big tyres that omega drive train may not be capable of ..... :-\
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The ABS will manage the absolute stopping power, regardless of tyres, as its sole function is to prevent wheel lock ::)
The four channel system on the newer cars ought to be upto the task of keeping all four brakes on an even keel, the three channel set up might be a bit less tolerant to an over braked rear end.
In order to keep things balanced, perhaps it will be necessary to use both front and rear calipers from the same donor and keep the disc diameters in proportion.
16" wheels are going to be quite restricted in size increases, 17"+ giving considerably more space to play with...
A starting point for the four pots would be late V6 vented discs/calipers all round, with better pads. For the six pots, larger diameter and greater thickness for heat tolerance along with larger calipers/pads.
Choice of disc and caliper is governed by the hub dimensions and the wheel dimensions, so it could be prudent to aim to keep either the inside face of the larger disc or its centre line in the same relative position as the originals in order to keep the caliper away from the inboard face of the wheels.
Another important point regarding disc/caliper choice is disc and pad thickness and availability :y
Regardless of choice of disc/caliper, there will be a certain amount of fabrication needed, either to fit the disc or to mount the caliper...
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Don't forget the master cylinder. Some systems have different diameter MC bores for front and rear to balance the system. It's the ratio of master and slave cylinder area that translates force at the pedal to force acting on the brake pad. If you go to much bigger slave cylinders you will need to find a master cylinder that matches them.
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The ABS will manage the absolute stopping power, regardless of tyres, as its sole function is to prevent wheel lock ::)
under certain conditions abs stops the car longer ::)
a chain is as strong as its weakest part.. see Kevins post..
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Yep, once ABS has kicked in you are in a compromise. A good driver could otherwise stop quicker using cadence braking. A bad driver would be sailing on into the ditch. ;D
Best to get the system properly balanced before you consider ABS, so the ABS only has to function when both axles are at their limit of traction, IMHO.
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Re piston area, are we not talking about a greater area to be taken up by fluid on a bigger caliper, but the travel of the pistons, and hence the fluid in the brake line to that corner of the car, being the same. So master cylinder would be unaffected. :-\
What have I missed? :)
The ratio of the caliper piston area to the master cylinder piston area directly affects the force amplification and the relative travel (think of it like a lever ratio, I suppose..) of caliper piston vs. master cylinder piston.
But please don't ask me which way 'round it is as I can't remember :-[ :-[ I know the relationship between force & travel is inverse, but that's all I can dredge up.
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The ABS will manage the absolute stopping power, regardless of tyres, as its sole function is to prevent wheel lock ::)
under certain conditions abs stops the car longer ::)
a chain is as strong as its weakest part.. see Kevins post..
here are some notes on abs
"More specifically, the studies show that ABS has no real-world effect on dry-surface braking, ABS-equipped vehicles take longer to stop on ice than non-ABS vehicles, ABS-equipped vehicles are more prone to roll-over accidents than non-ABS vehicles, ABS-equipped vehicles are involved more often in single car fatal accidents than non-ABS vehicles, and drivers of ABS-equipped vehicles tend to drive faster and apply their brakes later than non-ABS drivers.
The AAA Foundation for Traffic safety has determined that improper driver steering in an ABS-equipped vehicle can send it veering out of control. In their tests, jerking the wheel (as if trying to steer around an obstacle) in a 35 mph panic stop sent ABS-equipped cars careening across two lane widths. (Without the ABS, the car skidded in a straight line.) This behavior may account for the higher roll-over rates for ABS-equipped vehicles. Other research revealed that many drivers don’t use ABS properly; they pump the pedal as they would regular brakes"
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The ABS will manage the absolute stopping power, regardless of tyres, as its sole function is to prevent wheel lock ::)
under certain conditions abs stops the car longer ::)
a chain is as strong as its weakest part.. see Kevins post..
That's what ABS does, even says so in the handbook ::) snow and gravel being two obvious examples... The most effective braking happens just before the wheels lock, ABS simply tries to maintain that point by releasing the brakes as they lock up, which has the effect of extending braking distances....
Anyway I digress ::)
Regarding the master cylinder what are the specific details of the master cylinder on an Omega?
Are they the same across the range?
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Larger caliper piston or smaller MC piston means greater force at the pad for a given force at the pedal but longer pedal travel.
Smaller caliper piston or larger MC piston means less force at the pad for a given force at the pedal but shorter pedal travel.
So.. If you fit larger caliper pistons (as is the more likely scenario), the brakes are going to be more sensitive (less pedal pressure for given braking effort) but the pedal will have a longer travel.
If there's too much pedal travel you might not have enough reserve travel to operate the brakes if one of the circuits fails or the fluid overheats.
We really need some numbers from calipers under consideration to understand what might happen IMHO. Would also be worth researching what alternative MCs might be available.
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The ABS will manage the absolute stopping power, regardless of tyres, as its sole function is to prevent wheel lock ::)
under certain conditions abs stops the car longer ::)
a chain is as strong as its weakest part.. see Kevins post..
That's what ABS does, even says so in the handbook ::) snow and gravel being two obvious examples... The most effective braking happens just before the wheels lock, ABS simply tries to maintain that point by releasing the brakes as they lock up, which has the effect of extending braking distances....
Anyway I digress ::)
Regarding the master cylinder what are the specific details of the master cylinder on an Omega?
Are they the same across the range?
thanks for explaining how abs works ;D
"ABS doesn't work as well on loose surfaces like gravel and sand. If you get into a panic stop situation in loose snow, gravel, or sand, don't expect your ABS to stop you in time, and do your best to steer around any objects in your path." ;)
and dont believe everything what handbook says
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Pm sent.
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With regards the MC...
The Omega ones are given as being...
Pre '98 v6 25.4/20.64 mm (3 channel abs?)
Post '98 all 25.4 mm (4 channel abs?)
Facelift?
Chris has the Commodore manual, which should have the relevant dimensions listed...
The base Monaro is fitted with fr 296x24 and rr 286x8 discs.
The Monaro VXR has fr 330x32 and rr 315x18 discs. I have seen no mention of changing the MC when retrofitting the VXR brakes to the base cars :-\
Will be able to give piston sizes for the VXR brakes tomorrow :y
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For reference later, then:
Stock Omega front piston is 57mm
Stock Omega rear piston is 40mm
(from the Brakes Int parts catalogue)
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For reference later, then:
Stock Omega front piston is 57mm
Stock Omega rear piston is 40mm
(from the Brakes Int parts catalogue)
I made that mistake too...
3.2 has 42mm rear pistons :y
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For reference later, then:
Stock Omega front piston is 57mm
Stock Omega rear piston is 40mm
(from the Brakes Int parts catalogue)
I made that mistake too...
3.2 has 42mm rear pistons :y
Yep, noticed at the weekend that my rears are 42. That probably changed when the MC sized were updated but it would be interesting to known the size of the late non-vented rear setup just in case it came in with vented rears.
Has anyone ever got an IR thermometer, heated up a set of Omega brakes and compared front and rear temperatures, out of interest?
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Pm sent.
pm replied
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Have just spoken briefly to Monkfish...
The full monty AP set up consists of fr 362x32, 6 pot caliperrs and rr343x26, 4 pot calipers.
Replacing the original CV8 brakes with the full AP set up above produces a marginally longer pedal travel, with the DBA VXR set up being somewhere in between. They have never changed an MC as part of the process, with no reported issues. The ABS side of things remains unaffected as well.
However, they were unable to give the MC diameter... so over to you Chris for that :y
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I know few people inc me, who upgrades omega brakes with bigger calipers and discs and dont have any issue with MC :y
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Have just spoken briefly to Monkfish...
The full monty AP set up consists of fr 362x32, 6 pot caliperrs and rr343x26, 4 pot calipers.
Replacing the original CV8 brakes with the full AP set up above produces a marginally longer pedal travel, with the DBA VXR set up being somewhere in between. They have never changed an MC as part of the process, with no reported issues. The ABS side of things remains unaffected as well.
However, they were unable to give the MC diameter... so over to you Chris for that :y
Internal size? I might have on of those knocking about. :)
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It will be in the Specs somewhere in the Haynes Commodore manual :y looking for VZ 5.7/6.0...
If you also happened to have a 3.2 Omega one knocking about for measuring purposes, that would be nice ::)
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Poll added. :)
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I said 17s, as occasionally I swap wheels between cars, and I dont want to loose that flexibility.
//Edit, my spare is 15, so ignore my vote. I'll stick with what GM provided for now. Sorry
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Right, had a delivery today... a set of front and rear PBR calipers from a Monaro VXR 6.0 and thanks to Kevin and Robsey, summat to trial fit them to :y
Firstly, they bolt straight on, with minor tweaking to the rear dust shield and the need for 5mm longer bolts for the rear calipers 8)
Secondly the maths...(Omega in Red)
Front piston area: 2 x 40mm = 12.57mm2 = 25.1425.52 mm2 total
Front disc: 330 x 32 mm vs. 296 x 28 mm
Rear piston area: 1 x 44 mm = 15.2 mm2 13.86 mm2 total
Rear disc: 315 x 18 mm vs. 286 x 20 mm
Master cylinder bore: ??.?? mm 25.4 mm
Thirdly, they won't fit 16" wheels ::)
Pics:
Fronts:
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y486/05omegav6/IMG_20131002_204900_zps8bb61e34.jpg)
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y486/05omegav6/IMG_20131002_204815_zps0ca3ecc7.jpg)
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y486/05omegav6/IMG_20131002_204346_zps8dd0e72c.jpg)
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y486/05omegav6/IMG_20131002_204215_zps122e19ba.jpg)
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y486/05omegav6/IMG_20131002_204159_zps26f0f07f.jpg)
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y486/05omegav6/IMG_20131002_204413_zpsf4dc3c3a.jpg)
Rears:
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y486/05omegav6/IMG_20131002_202838_zps7a50f9f0.jpg)
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y486/05omegav6/IMG_20131002_202913_zpsaa86e7db.jpg)
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y486/05omegav6/IMG_20131002_202852_zpsbe44d76b.jpg)
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y486/05omegav6/IMG_20131002_203434_zps7193009e.jpg)
Discs/mounting bells are next on the list, but the first hurdle was whether they fitted, which they do, which is nice 8)
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how much is set of vxr calipers??
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how much is set of vxr calipers??
These were listed on Ebay for £215.00 :y
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how much is set of vxr calipers??
These were listed on Ebay for £215.00 :y
yes just saw those
not bad price for set
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now need to find discs what will fit with this calipers
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Fronts... http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/brake-discs/a-p-racing-pro-5000-plus-brake-discs
Option 6 :y plus anodised alloy mounting bell.
Rears... custom made, carbon steel with anodised alloy mounting bell incorporating handbrake drum.
Pads EBC Redstuff...
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Fronts... http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/brake-discs/a-p-racing-pro-5000-plus-brake-discs
Option 6 :y plus anodised alloy mounting bell.
Rears... custom made, carbon steel with anodised alloy mounting bell incorporating handbrake drum.
Pads EBC Redstuff...
all looking good,
so what sort of money you think will cos front and rear set up?
or just front?
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Have been quoted £900+ Vat for the 4 discs and mounting bells, so including the calipers and pads, about £1450 :-\
But bear in mind that the bells need to be machined from scratch, and the rear discs are an odd thickness... a set of four cheapy Monaro discs are about £500 anyway, and the hub dimensions are different enough to be annoying, so after machining etc, probably not cheaper or easier... :-\
For reference, the full AP kit would be nearer £4k for all new parts :-X
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£4k ? Shit the bed! :o Looks good though Al :y
Can't be too hard to sort a spare wheel btw. Can it? :-\
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£4k ? Shit the bed! :o Looks good though Al :y
Can't be too hard to sort a spare wheel btw. Can it? :-\
Sure I can find one somewhere ::) might even be an MV6 one ;D
That 4k is for VXR8 spec brakes, using brand new components bought separately from an approved AP stockist, and includes all machining, pads and Vat... so could be broken down into more convenient chunks :y
As Edmund would say... I have a cunning plan. A plan so cunning you could pin a tail on it and call it a fox.
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From Haynes for omega;
Master cylinder nominal diameter
From model year 1998
All models .................................25.40mm
Haynes forHolden Commodore gives no specs for brakes. :(
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From Haynes for omega;
Master cylinder nominal diameter
From model year 1998
All models .................................25.40mm
Haynes forHolden Commodore gives no specs for brakes. :(
Well that's a bit pants :-\
Ok a spot of Googling has found...
http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/x,catalog,27,partnum,MC390889,d,Raybestos_MC390889.html
Which suggests a bore size of 1.25"/1.0" or in new money 31.75/25.4 mm :y
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So, back to the maths...
Secondly the maths...(Omega in Red)
Front piston area: 2 x 40mm = 12.57mm 2 = 25.1425.52 mm 2 total Front disc: 330 x 32 mm vs. 296 x 28 mm
Rear piston area: 1 x 44 mm = 15.2 mm 2 13.86 mm 2 total Rear disc: 315 x 18 mm vs. 286 x 20 mm
Master cylinder bore: 31.75/25.4 mm 25.4 mm
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From Brembo parts catalogue
Hub hole will need machining to match omega. Omega hub outer will need machining a couple of mm to allow the disc to fit on. But apart from that, Afaict most measurements are suitable with in a few mm. ESP offset and thickness.
omega
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/image_zps748ecfc8.jpg)
Phaeton
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/image_zps6d4bfbb8.jpg)
Calipers
Looking at Audi q7 fronts. As Sereks recommendation. :)
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The only issues with that plan are...
1. Machining 2mm from the Omega hub face will give 2mm less for the wheel bolts to thread to.
2. Machining the rear of the disc hub instead will weaken that.
:-\
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2mm is break all, wont have an impact in reality
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Fair enough :y
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The only issues with that plan are...
1. Machining 2mm from the Omega hub face will give 2mm less for the wheel bolts to thread to.
2. Machining the rear of the disc hub instead will weaken that.
:-\
Just to clarify, i'm aware the outer circumference of the omega hub will not physically fit inside the phaeton disc. The omega diag shows a disc internal diameter of 139mm for the hub to fit into. Where as the poodon disc shows 135mm.
So 2mm off the the outer circumference of the hub will mean removing most of , iirc, the chamfer on the hub edges.
This will bring the hub outer edge 2mm closer to the 5 wheel bolt holes, which are 112mm pcb, but are a 0.5mm diameter smaller.
Hub hole on the disc needs to be made a couple off mm bigger to accept the hub.
So all within a couple if mm here and there and all with metal to be removed.
Couple of things that bothers me
1 is the weight. Phaeton discs are twice as heavy.
2 the opel omega v8 discs had, what looked like, 12mm odd holes drilled around the hub housing of the disc, "to aid cooling of the hub". "The the hub bearing was also strengthened." somehow.
Obviously I'm going to struggle to replicate a stronger hub(bearing) :-\
But does it needs holes around the hub housing of the disc?
There are some discs that have the holes as standard, but I forget which as I dismissed them on size in favour of the phaeton discs.
I'm also sure I saw that audi rs4/6 discs where if the same dimensions. But I'm unable to find that info again.
The rs6 discs are a work of art. (And priced accordingly :o )
Link to view. (Not buy)
http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-RS6--4.2T/Braking/View_All/ES259508/
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Ps, alloy top hat of the rs6 also shows holes in the hub housing.
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Struggling to see how those holes help cooling, not convinced the hub needs cooling anyway.
So anybody got an old hub I can wack in the lathe then
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Struggling to see how those holes help cooling, not convinced the hub needs cooling anyway.
So anybody got an old hub I can wack in the lathe then
Funny enough, I have two used ones here. :)
They are in good nic.
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Ps opels literature for the v8 says
Holes have been provided for improved ventilation of the brakes disc, sized 334mm x 32mm.
I presume to minimise heat transfer to the wheel baring? Maybe? Maybe the alloy top hats of the Audi discs would help further, given the minimal contact with the outer router/disc.
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http://www.dba.com.au
http://www.dba.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/DBA_CATALOGUE_2013-14_ver2.pdf
For Al, maybe. :)
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Interesting reading :y
They list 3 of the 4 discs needed, with UK suppliers, but first impression of prices look to be more than AP :-\
Shall investigate further and report back :y
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So anybody got an old hub I can wack in the lathe then
I was just about to post that, too ;D although I'm not convinced my little Myford would be man enough.
Any excuse to play on the lathe, though.
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Interesting reading :y
They list 3 of the 4 discs needed, with UK suppliers, but first impression of prices look to be more than AP :-\
Shall investigate further and report back :y
The hsv/pitonheads forum often mention dba for economy reasons.
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So anybody got an old hub I can wack in the lathe then
I was just about to post that, too ;D although I'm not convinced my little Myford would be man enough.
Any excuse to play on the lathe, though.
Was planning to use the Harrison we have at the centre or one of the big Bridports
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Interesting reading :y
They list 3 of the 4 discs needed, with UK suppliers, but first impression of prices look to be more than AP :-\
Shall investigate further and report back :y
The hsv/pitonheads forum often mention dba for economy reasons.
Alot of Aussies and Yanks on there :y for the Aussies it is cheaper and easier to buy DBA at home rather than import AP from here. Also AP don't sell direct, and won't publicly supply contract parts that they sell to the factories. For the Americans, the DBA kit is cheaper than AP but still has to be imported. The other slight hiccup which affects the disc cost is the wheel pcd and hub dimensions, so basically obliged to buy top end discs...
The AP kit for the Monaro can be got from Monkfish for £1950 and second hand kits for either Monaro or VXR8 are about £1200, and whilst they will bolt straight on, the rear disc/mounting bell and front mounting bell all need to be bought as extras. The cheaper DBA discs are single piece, so of no use on the Omega :'(
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Hmmm... A possible. Can't find any sizes though. :(
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Front-Right-Brake-Disc-for-Audi-A6-02-05-/380721731667?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item58a4c89853
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Although the rats boys seem happy with them.
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en?sl=no&tl=en&u=http%3A//www.rats.no/omega_tg.html
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/ac008d220effa5406cb8fc19fe0b30ef_zpsf9cb2a42.jpg)
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Hmmm... A possible. Can't find any sizes though. :(
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Front-Right-Brake-Disc-for-Audi-A6-02-05-/380721731667?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item58a4c89853
this what i have for my calipers
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FRONT-Ferodo-Brake-Discs-Audi-A8-4-2-TDI-quattro-4E-2002-2010-Saloon-/271021235743?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Car+Make%3AAudi%7CModel%3AA8&hash=item3f1a1fde1f
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Looking at these, specifically the reverse, there doesn't appear to be a way to replace the rotor. The alloy top hat/centre has studs protruding into the cast rotor, and don't appear to come apart to allow keeping the top hat and replacing the rotor once worn.... How the hell do they make these?
Surely the two parts can be separated? :-\
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/042609ab93438190df7616b7c285f621_zps11d453da.jpg)
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Those are almost exactly like the M3 brakes (beside the scolloped outside edge, the BMW discs are round) - you can't separate the two 'halves' as they're not really halves..
They're cast as one piece AFAIK, but designed that way presumably to aid heat dissipation and reduce the chance of distortion.
Also makes them chuffing expensive if they're anything like BMW!
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Looking at these, specifically the reverse, there doesn't appear to be a way to replace the rotor. The alloy top hat/centre has studs protruding into the cast rotor, and don't appear to come apart to allow keeping the top hat and replacing the rotor once worn.... How the hell do they make these?
Surely the two parts can be separated? :-\
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/042609ab93438190df7616b7c285f621_zps11d453da.jpg)
Surely that can't be true .. as any such studs would prevent the rotor from rotating !! ... or am I misreading what you wrote ??
Are they locating pins for transit/fitting that are removed on fit ??
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Those 'pins' are essentially spokes :y
Discs wouldn't work very well if the hubs were separately independent ::)
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Why would the rotor need to rotate Nige? It needs to not rotate to stop the car.
It can't be one piece, as the centre is Alloy although I see your point Aaron, and the braking part of the disk, the rotor, is cast iron. Therefore they must be assembled, and therefore de assemble. But how ? :-\
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The alloy hub is moulded over the Iron Disc, forming one piece. :-\
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Unless the studs are cast into the rotor, and then the alloy cast around the studs? As Broomies says.
But then how would that cope with expansion rates as the rotor gets hot? :-\
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All the after market rs6 brake upgrades I've see. Have some sort of release mechanism for the two parts for replacement, so the alloy centre is kept, but the outer rotor replaced when worn.
I had assumed these oe rs6 had similar on the back as no nuts or bolts where visible from the front. But the back reveals nothing.
They must be, effectively, one piece. Which sucks ! :( I was hoping new rotors only would be needed once worn. Making them cheaper long term.
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Those are 8 pot calipers btw. With 4 pads pre caliper. :o
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Right...
All these discs are Rotor only, will have separate hub mounting bell in anodized alloy. Assume plus VAT.
Monaro VXR set up...
315x18 rear discs will be made to order, price tba.
330x32 front discs AP £213.31, DBA £262.96.
Monaro upgrade/VXR8 set up...
343x28 rear discs AP £233.60, DBA £262.96.
362x32 front discs AP £196.79, DBA N/A for UK order.
As suspected DBA discs need to be ordered from Australia, hopefully from stock :-\
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How much for the bells Al?
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Guessing on £25-35ea for the fronts, perhaps £35-50ea for the rears :-\
Depends entirely on the amount of aluminium needed for each one, and ease of machining... so won't know until the parts are measured properly:-\
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Well, I'd prefer a two piece disc on grounds of weight and heat transfer.
So if the cost can be kept to that sort of level, it should be worth a few quid extra over a solid disc. We'll see how we go. :)
Saves machining hubs to Master.