Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega Electrical and Audio Help => Topic started by: Tommy on 20 January 2008, 17:58:53
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I have searched the forums for this information so I guess I need to ask.
I have recently acquired a 1999 2.5 Elite and all the gadgets work and are brilliant (I've owned XJ6's until now) however one thing is missing - sat nav! I have TomTom on pda but it involves two different holders - one for the bluetooth GPS and the other for the PDA. I have never ended up down a country lane I didn't plan to lol but as the car can have internal system why not use it?
I have the chance to acquire a Carin cd player & display and I know where to get the updated cd. What I don't know is where the cd rom lives.
There is a holder I have found inside a cuddy in the boot. The cd changer is inside the 'hole' but there is also another holder sitting there doing nothing.
In short - sorry this has been a lengthy post lol Does the cd rom live in the boot or glove box. Would the wiring already be there? Does it take a seperate gps unit?
By the way great site guys - I hope to become a regular :)
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Hi Tommy and welcome to the forum
If it a saloon you have the Sat Nav CD rom sits to the rear of the boot behind the passenger side wheel arch up under the parcel shelf. I am sure the wiring wont be there. I have had this system in two of the Omega I have owned and although it does work I still use my Tom Tom as it is much quicker.
HTH
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If you have the CCRT700 then some of the wiring is prefitted for the sat nav
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Yes I do have the CCRT700 fitted. Does the rom still live in the boot?
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If its the saloon yes, if its an estate the early one were fittied on the tunnel between the back seats so it got kicked to bits by the kids and the later ones are fixed to the roof in the load bay :y
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Yes I do have the CCRT700 fitted. Does the rom still live in the boot?
Have a look on the inside left hand side of the boot for a cable with a black connector and a mini coax jack. Mine was lying loose in the boot.
It seems to originate from the centre of the car, under the rear shelf and then is clipped to the shelf running around to the left between the suspension turret and the spare wheel, which is where the rom unit should sit.
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The black connector is there (multisocket) and a mini coax all wrapped in a little piece of grey foam - obviously never used
Mine's on the right rather than left but I guess it could be moved if needs be.
By the way yes I do have the saloon
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The black connector is there (multisocket) and a mini coax all wrapped in a little piece of grey foam - obviously never used
Mine's on the right rather than left but I guess it could be moved if needs be.
By the way yes I do have the saloon
I understood it, that wiring in the foam bag is nothing to do with sat-nav but is the pre-wiring for a phone kit that all Omegas had, cos not all Omegas had a CCRT700 phone. The other end is somewhere behind the glove box.
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I understood that telephone pre-wiring was not available in conjunction with the CCRT700 and I'm pretty certain that this plug is Carin related.
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I understood that telephone pre-wiring was not available in conjunction with the CCRT700 and I'm pretty certain that this plug is Carin related.
There's a CCRT700 in my 99 Elite & there's also the phone pre wiring in the boot - up under the parcel shelf.
I was in Edinburgh last week - we could've compared notes/wiring. :y
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Oh 'dangle berries'
I thought this was the loom for the sat-nav
Now I'm stuffed :(
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That makes 2 of us Jules ;D There was me thinking it was going to be easy
Anyone else got any more suggestions?
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Can anyone post a picture of the back of a carin unit so we can see the connections ?
Pretty please with sugar and pink icing on top :D
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Righty ho.
I've just opened the wiring diagrams on TIS.
Clicking on the navigation unit brings up a picture of a connector.
this connector is in my boot
It has a ten hole connector with a little lever to release it.
This convinces me that this is the loom for the sat-nav unit.
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Jules,
Is that the connector we were talking about earlier?
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It has a ten hole connector with a little lever to release it.
This convinces me that this is the loom for the sat-nav unit.
10 hole is bigger than the one I was thinking of, so it loks as though you were right. It'll be Monday now before I can delve in the boot of my car to look at the back of my sat-nav.
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all my carin stuff is boxed in the garage under lots of detritus. but also at the weekend should get a mo to dig it out and photo. hope that'll be some help.
i removed mine from my last elite and am going to fit it to the current one when the weather warms up or something. so am yet to see whether the loom's already there or not!
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Yes, it is.
It also has a mini coax attached to it.
I'm still making assumptions here but I would imagine that up front with be another coax connector that the GPS reciever will attach to.
I have decided to do a how-to on this subject once I have amassed al the relevant bits. (assuming I get it to work)
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Look forward to that with interest Jules
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OK this is from a 1997 Elite.
Rear loom connectors:
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg142/babyboos_photos/Connexrear.jpg)
Rear of ROM unit:
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg142/babyboos_photos/CDpowerconnex.jpg)
Rear of Screen:
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg142/babyboos_photos/Screenrear.jpg)
Dashboard to screen:
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg142/babyboos_photos/Connexdashboard.jpg)
Coax for GPS:
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg142/babyboos_photos/rear.jpg)
Very kindly provided by the gentleman from Ebay who's kit I've bought.
Now this so far is incompatible with the loom in my boot. Which leads me to assume that the Carin systems have changed connections after 1999.
I already have a rom unit for a carin 522, this has the same connectors as ablove plus an RGB din for a colour monitor.
Why is nothing ever simple
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Update :
Went to a breakers on Saturday and got a complete 1999 Carin.
The connector previously discussed that I have in my boot is a red herring and nothing to do with the Sat Nav. :'(
The loom runs from the rear of the car to the front, it has a middle connector that 'breaks out' into two looms, one goes to the screen and has the speaker and remote attached and the other goes somewhere as yet unknown.
This unknown connector has six pins. I am guessing these are
Permanent live
Ignition live
Ground
Speed pulse
Illumination
Reverse ?????
Does anyone know where the female recepticle for this connector is to be found ?
Cheers
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Jules, didn't you just win a system off fleabay?
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Yes, now I have two !!
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http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/5747/carinkd7.gif
So from this diagram, I am looking for :
A1 RED Constant positive feed
A2 VIOLET Ignition feed
A4 WH/Yl Reverse lights or switch
A5 BL/WH Speed pulse
A7 BROWN Ground
A9 GREY Sidelights.
The colours above are at the NAV unit interface.
What I am wondering is if there is a female receptor somewhere in the main loom with all these connections ?
Anyone ?
Cheers
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http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/5747/carinkd7.gif
So from this diagram, I am looking for :
A1 RED Constant positive feed
A2 VIOLET Ignition feed
A4 WH/Yl Reverse lights or switch
A5 BL/WH Speed pulse
A7 BROWN Ground
A9 GREY Sidelights.
The colours above are at the NAV unit interface.
What I am wondering is if there is a female receptor somewhere in the main loom with all these connections ?
Anyone ?
Cheers
Have now found a seperate brown for the ground, and the 6th connector on this mini plug goes back up the loom to the display.
Can anyone help me to locate where this connector goes in the car's loom? I don't know where the loom ran in the donor cars and I don't really want to pull the whole car to bits.
Looking at the long loom I'm guessing it ran down the passenger side, under the glove box past the stereo and down the transmission tunnel.
That would infer the connector is somewhere between the passenger footwell and the screen location.
Anyone help ?
Marky-Mark, didn't you retro fit one ?
Cheers
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Hello,
I've retro fitted the carin system to my 1996 omega elite, follow the link below it helped me :y
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/omega-elite/menupages/omegasatnav/satnav.htm
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Cheers Jim, that does help in so far as I have a plug with the wires this guy talks about fitting into the main connectors.
I was wondering if anyone knew the location of the female connector on the 1999 models.
If all else fails I could strip the plug off and solder the wires into the passenger footwell.
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Ok, on to the integration with the stereo, comments from DND Dave extremely welcome on this one.
The speaker in the footwell is a simple two wire job, so from here :
http://www.ccpip.org/800/service/Connctn.html
looking at the wiring for the CCRT700,
Could I use connections:
C3-16 Ext Audio Input +
C3-19 Ext Audio Input -
For the sat-nav voice ?
And would anyone like to take a guess if the stereo would detect a signal applied on the positive line and go into 'message' mode automatically ? Or would it not be so simple ?
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I can see your thoughts -
As the CCRT700 was never designed to have a true "AUX" input, I think that these connectors may be reserved for use with something else - Phone, or changer input.
Not necessarily a problem if you can determine what needs to be done to the stereo to activate such inputs and then its just a case of sorting out the voltage level to plug in (thats the easy bit)
Others out there may be a bit more familiar with this unit than I am.
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You will also need to find a suitable Mute wire from the Nav so that it triggers the Mute circuit on the head unit, as I do not think that the head unit is set up to give "voice over music"
Again, others may know better with this one, just firing off a few thoughts.
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From the CCRT700 manual page 56 :
EXT Vol
An external source can be connected to the CCRT700 (for example a navigation system)
The sound of the external source is automatically reproduced by use of a remote switching signal from the external source, even if the CCRT 700 is switched off. The display then shows 'EXT, IN'
In addition to the normal volume setting you can programme the volume of the external source.
So, how clever do we think it is ?
Clever enough to detect a raise of voltage on the positive line and assume that is an input ?
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Nice one Jules ! I knew someobody out there would know !
Sounds perfect and also very easy then !!
And as it appears to be designed for an external input such as a Nav, you can probably plug the wires straight in, and not have to worry about line level convertors etc.
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From the CCRT700 manual page 56 :
EXT Vol
An external source can be connected to the CCRT700 (for example a navigation system)
The sound of the external source is automatically reproduced by use of a remote switching signal from the external source, even if the CCRT 700 is switched off. The display then shows 'EXT, IN'
In addition to the normal volume setting you can programme the volume of the external source.
So, how clever do we think it is ?
Clever enough to detect a raise of voltage on the positive line and assume that is an input ?
You sound as though you know what you're doing, but the reply from Vx was that it can't be done. Why does the the car have the cheap speaker in the foot well in the first place, when I believe other cars with out CCRT700 do have the sat-nav via the car speakers? I'd be interested in how you get though for my car.
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The speaker in the footwell is common amongst manufacturers as they say that only the driver is then "annoyed" by the voice commands or spoken words, and not the passengers.
Personally, I think its more a cost cutting exercise, as a universal speaker is significatly cheaper than a custom dedicated vehicle wiring loom to plug it in.
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Once I get it in and working I'll do a retro-fit procedure (God how I hate documentation) for others to follow on the board.
Next question:
Back to the elusive six pin connector:
This has :
RED - Permanent live
Red/violet - Switched Live (available on radio loom)
blue/red - Speed pulse (available on Radio loom)
white/black - reverse (on rear lights if required)
grey/yellow - Lighting (available on Radio loom)
grey/green - Speed dependant volume (where ? Not on paper avilable on radio loom)
Now the loom from the rear navigation unit is 285 cm to the first connector (the 6 pin jobbie) it then breaks into two and runs 140 cm to the screen then a further 140cm to the speaker.
Assuming the speaker is supposed to bein the passenger footwell then this suggests contrary to my previous post the the loom would be run from the rear left of the car, accross the boot, down the drivers side and across the dashboard.
can anyone confirm this, and indeed that I should be looking for the 6 pin under the steering wheel area ?
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The speaker in the footwell is common amongst manufacturers as they say that only the driver is then "annoyed" by the voice commands or spoken words, and not the passengers.
Personally, I think its more a cost cutting exercise, as a universal speaker is significatly cheaper than a custom dedicated vehicle wiring loom to plug it in.
Right then. Hands up those with sat-nav and NOT the CCRT700. Does your sat-nav come out of your stereos speakers? Or maybe I've imagined it, but I'm sure I've seen this in an Omega at Tatton Park.
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You wll find a fairly even 50/50mix on that one
depends largely on fitted from factory, or retro fitted !!
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on my old elite (Non-700) it came out of a separate speaker somewhere in the passenger footwell .
on the new one (with700) it comes out on the stereo speakers.
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You wll find a fairly even 50/50mix on that one
depends largely on fitted from factory, or retro fitted !!
Sorry. I meant with the factory fit Carin jobbie.
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on my old elite (Non-700) it came out of a separate speaker somewhere in the passenger footwell .
on the new one (with700) it comes out on the stereo speakers.
? Mmm! Not the way round that I'd have expected.
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remember that Carin could either be fitted along the production line, Retro fitted at the dealership / garage prior to delivery, or sold as an aftermarket item.
The locations af cabling and units would be fairly standardised, but speakers and controls often led to some "amusing" variations.
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on my old elite (Non-700) it came out of a separate speaker somewhere in the passenger footwell .
on the new one (with700) it comes out on the stereo speakers.
? Mmm! Not the way round that I'd have expected.
Why not ?
look at the wiring here again :
http://www.ccpip.org/800/service/Connctn.html
The CCR600 and CAR400 don't have a defined audio input. The CCRT700 does.
Perhaps the CCR600's telephone input could be adapted but there is certainly no option on the CAR400 that would suffice.
The cost would be the dictating factor here. As seen with traffic master, there is a piggyback loom on the radio connectors to facilitate the message mute etc. Vauxhall would have to engineer something else to bring the sound from the nav into the stereo. (I very much doubt they would splice into the loom) this would incurr cost - probably prohibative.
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If you can find a mute wire from the sat nav, you can often adapt an inline universal ISO phone interface to fit on just about any stereo - Autoleads call the Telemute wires, and designed to put a phone audio through the car speakers. This is done via a relay panel and usually only drives the drivers speaker.
the problems with doing that are the delay in muting - it was not uncommon to lose the first wrod the Nav spoke with the delay in the mute circuits, which is why although popular, is not withoiut its own problems. Phones often mute a second or two before they burst into life, namy of the Navs will mute and speak at the same time.
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Right, all set for the install this weekend.
One final question, can anyone with the Carin system in a saloon, find out for me the size of the bolts that hold the bracket in the boot.
By size I mean width and length.
Pretty please?
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Right, all set for the install this weekend.
One final question, can anyone with the Carin system in a saloon, find out for me the size of the bolts that hold the bracket in the boot.
By size I mean width and length.
Pretty please?
The bracket on mine is fixed to the boot via studs which are M5 x c20mm.
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Top man Andy, thanx
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UPDATE - Fitting in progress
JACKPOT !!!!
No I haven't won Euromillions, but when I opened the passenger kick panel, the first thing I saw was the elusive 6 pin connector sticking out of the loom above X1 !!!
I thought 'I can't really be that lucky can I ?'
Checked the colours and they matched, so plugged it in and voila the nav system fired.
Off out now to try and get the sound through the stereo - more soon.
PS TheBoy, both units work completely.
:y
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Right, Stereo feed is a no-go for now, there are no pins in the connector to attach to. Will have to try a Scrappie sometime.
Today was pretty 'scrapheap challenge' tastic, a few challenges encountered and I will do a 'how-to' with pictures when I should be working on Monday.
So sat-nav is now in and working, only question left is how do I take the outer rear of the rear seat off to pass the cables through?
th
eThanks for all the help guys
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......
So sat-nav is now in and working, only question left is how do I take the outer rear of the rear seat off to pass the cables through?
Pull the toggle at the front edge of the base of the rear seat to release the front of it. Lift the front edge and pull it forward a little - you won't need to remove it completely - seat belt buckles, heated seats etc etc. At the bottom of the side bolster is a square plastic ring that is held down via a metal tab which is welded to the body. Lever the metal tab up enough to pull the plastic ring foward & clear of it. Lift the bolster vertically & it will come out. Refitting is the reverse...... :-)
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Is this the same six pin plug you found in the passenger footwell under the kick panel
(http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/275000-275999/275300_333_full.jpg)
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Indeed it looks identical in the picture.
That was it's location so I can't see it being a completely different plug.
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Indeed it looks identical in the picture.
That was it's location so I can't see it being a completely different plug.
So did you just plug the sat nav loom into this and then everything came to live.
And then did you route the loom to the boot to the carin cd and route it under the dash to the screen etc.
PS; Check out the meets , gathering section. There's a meet it Callander this Sunday about 2 o'clock :y
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Indeed it looks identical in the picture.
That was it's location so I can't see it being a completely different plug.
So did you just plug the sat nav loom into this and then everything came to live.
And then did you route the loom to the boot to the carin cd and route it under the dash to the screen etc.
PS; Check out the meets , gathering section. There's a meet it Callander this Sunday about 2 o'clock :y
Basically yes, sounds simple but it was quite a challenge :y
Writing a how-to at the moment.
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How- to in progress :
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1202730965/0#0
Comments & questions welcome