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[Hondaboy]

Bit of an odd one here first drive after installing big air filter (as seen below if my link to pic worked)
What a lovely noise though still quiet when driven gently
Anyway once engine had warmed up I floored it which led to loads of noise but massively down on power then eml light started flashing then stayed on permanently, got stopped at lights and car was juddering at idle misfire I think
Limped it home shut it down and popped bonnet all seemed fine restarted engine no eml no misfire
I’m confused maf sensor not happy? Or unrelated problem occurring randomly?
Car runs and drives beautifully till now anyone else had issues with same?

[addy]

Just my thoughts. But you are dragging warm air in, from around the engine, which is a massive heat source. Warm air is not what you want. Cold air is better for performance. Probably the ECU is backing everything off, because it sees lots of warm air.  That is why intercoolers are used, cools air down. More cold air, more bang in engine = more power.

So you have made the engine power etc. worse by doing the conversion.

Someone will be along soon, to hopefully explain more.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Maybe I am missing something on this, but why would you fit a "big air filter" to a 2.6 Omega with a standard engine?

It was designed to have the air filter as fitted in the factory, so why do a boy racer up date?

If you go back to the original design I am sure your troubles will be over

[addy]

Agreed Lizzie Zoom. The air intake system for the engine, from stock works great. If it isn't would be checking all pipework to the Rams front and back.

[LC0112G]

Did you measure the ambient air pressure, and the air pressure in the standard air box after the standard panel filter, before you binned it? That way you would know how much of a restriction the standard setup imposes.

No? Thought not.

The only thing a performance air filter will do on an Omega is allow more/larger particles through, leading to increased engine wear. And it'll allow hotter engine bay air into the manifold, rather than cooler external air, thus reducing performance.

If these things had any real world benefits, manufacturers would fit them as standard.

[Doctor Gollum]

Two things...

1. The air filter... Aside from the previous observations, is it oiled? If yes, then you might have killed the MAF.

2. Fuel/historic use. If you're running crap fuel then that can make the EML flash. Likewise, if the car has been babied, then the sudden change of use won't agree with the established parameters in the ecu.

Firstly, refit the standard filter/housing.

Secondly, get the codes read* and report back.

* pedal trick may or may not work, but it's a start

[Rangie]

Maybe I am missing something on this, but why would you fit a "big air filter" to a 2.6 Omega with a standard engine?

It was designed to have the air filter as fitted in the factory, so why do a boy racer up date?

If you go back to the original design I am sure your troubles will be over

. 


Got to agree Lizzie, much better to keep the vehicle as built.

[Hondaboy]

Thanks for the advice from the helpful members I’m going to refit the original box and filter and go for a run
Hopefully will be back to normal which was brilliant anyway

Filter wasn’t oiled so hope maf is ok
Only used super unleaded since I got it

As for why modify my car well because I can and I like to but if you have to ask that question then your not going to get it  all cars are manufactured to a budget and fuel economy targets and several cars I’ve owned have benefitted from intake and exhaust improvements and several threads on this forum have discussed improvements from such
If this car doesn’t benefit from modifications I’m happy to just maintain polish and enjoy

[Rangie]

They are lovely vehicles kept stock, good ones are few & far between now enjoy it.

[Doctor Gollum]

Some mods are worth making, and the Omega benefits from these, but others less so. Cone air filters definitely fall into the 'less so' category.

Familiarise yourself with the 'pedal trick' and see what codes pop up these will help point you, and us, in the right direction re what might be the cause and therefore solution

Flashing eml is generally a tempory item, but depending on the cause, can become a solid eml if the car continues to be unhappy 

[Raeturbo]

If you want to improve airflow, do some research on aftermarket performance panel filters such as K&N, it will fit straight in as the standard item and benefit from the cold air feed already built into the original system.

[iansoutham]

People never do proper research.

I remember years ago when they did the test on air filters in the Escort Cosworth. They tried standard filter, panel filter and cone filter.

Below 400bhp, the best one was the panel filter in the standard air box. This was all on a car with almost twice the original power.

I run K&N filters in some of my cars as it works out cheaper to clean and re-oil than to change all the time. Anything with a MAF stays on original filters

Again, as said earlier, over-oiled filters with a hot at MAF will become expensive.

[Doctor Gollum]

GM filters are hardly expensive.

[Nick W]

The K&N's real advantage is that its performance doesn't deteriorate as it gets dirty. That's both airflow and filtering performance, which isn't true of a paper filter. It's more efficient, so flows a lot more air for the same size which makes one really useful for applications that are short of space.


A disadvantage is they achieve that largely through the oil that has to be applied. If you don't oil it, it will barely filter anything. They don't need a lot of oil though; a new one won't feel oily nor will a cleaned one if you follow the instructions.



If the car already has a filter that fits the space and flows enough air then a 'performance' filter is a waste of money. Although if you like the extra noise, that's a good enough reason to fit one if you can live with potential MAF failures.

[Andy B]

All V6 engines breathe through the same size panel filter .... if it's good enough for a 3.0/3.2, it'll be good enough for a 2.6 

[Andy B]

GM filters are hardly expensive.

I wish you could say the same for my ML 

[biggriffin]

Having played about, with "after-market" filters in a previous life,when every Bit of HP was wrung out of the machine, and spending hours on the rollers, the STD paper filter performance was identical to the so called performance filter. 

The Omega doesn't like oiled filters, it kills the MAF,.

So I would stick to the std filter, and the extra alleged 100bhp you'll get won't be noticeable.

[Doctor Gollum]

GM filters are hardly expensive.

I wish you could say the same for my ML 

Having two filters on the Barge, I sympathise, but a pair of filters isn't significantly more expensive considering 

[Raeturbo]

Only using k&N as a make. As obviously  oiled filters can interfere with the airflow meter.

[STEMO]

Let's face it, although quick for their day (3.0 and 3.2) they are no racing car. And are not the best at going around corners, esp. with their fussy suspension set up.

[Andy B]

....
Having two filters on the Barge, I sympathise, but a pair of filters isn't significantly more expensive considering 

I believe they're stupid money at MB. They're not just a panel filter like I had on my R Class, but these have a big plastic bit on them that's basically part of the filter housing.

Like these .. but more expensive 

[TheBoy]

Let's face it, although quick for their day (3.0 and 3.2) they are no racing car. And are not the best at going around corners, esp. with their fussy suspension set up.

Unless you get it sorted.  My beloved bullet was a smidgen over 7s to 60, and was so firmly planted it gave you the confidence to always take it to the limits of its capabilities.

There are much faster cars, but the Omega remains quicker and better handling than the majority of cars (using a current Focus/Astra/i40 as an average car).


Shame my current Omega has the crappy 3.2 engine, and I just can't sort the handling on it for some reason

[TheBoy]

Good to here the OP is going back to the standard air filter setup, which we've proved repeatedly is better than the so-called performance options. Even when the performance ones are fitted correctly (separating the filter from the main under bonnet area, and improving the cold air feed to it).

[STEMO]

Let's face it, although quick for their day (3.0 and 3.2) they are no racing car. And are not the best at going around corners, esp. with their fussy suspension set up.

Unless you get it sorted.  My beloved bullet was a smidgen over 7s to 60, and was so firmly planted it gave you the confidence to always take it to the limits of its capabilities.

There are much faster cars, but the Omega remains quicker and better handling than the majority of cars (using a current Focus/Astra/i40 as an average car).


Shame my current Omega has the crappy 3.2 engine, and I just can't sort the handling on it for some reason

The omega was about 40 grand in today's money, so those three aren't really a fair comparison.

[TheBoy]

Let's face it, although quick for their day (3.0 and 3.2) they are no racing car. And are not the best at going around corners, esp. with their fussy suspension set up.

Unless you get it sorted.  My beloved bullet was a smidgen over 7s to 60, and was so firmly planted it gave you the confidence to always take it to the limits of its capabilities.

There are much faster cars, but the Omega remains quicker and better handling than the majority of cars (using a current Focus/Astra/i40 as an average car).


Shame my current Omega has the crappy 3.2 engine, and I just can't sort the handling on it for some reason

The omega was about 40 grand in today's money, so those three aren't really a fair comparison.

True, but most of mine still represent some of the cheapest cars I've ever bought.  Even the last 2nd hand Astra I ever bought back in the early 90s cost a damn sight more than any Omega I ever bought .

[Lizzie Zoom]

Let's face it, although quick for their day (3.0 and 3.2) they are no racing car. And are not the best at going around corners, esp. with their fussy suspension set up.

Unless you get it sorted.  My beloved bullet was a smidgen over 7s to 60, and was so firmly planted it gave you the confidence to always take it to the limits of its capabilities.

There are much faster cars, but the Omega remains quicker and better handling than the majority of cars (using a current Focus/Astra/i40 as an average car).


Shame my current Omega has the crappy 3.2 engine, and I just can't sort the handling on it for some reason

The omega was about 40 grand in today's money, so those three aren't really a fair comparison.

I must say that when I kick down on mine and the car accelerates quickly with a roar and I know that it will keep on going up to 150 mph, would I ever ( ), with no difficulty at all, that is good enough for me

[Andy B]

.....
 My beloved bullet was a smidgen over 7s to 60, and  ....

The book figure for my 2.2 tonne barge is 7.4  ... it doesn't really do corners though ... even in 'Sport' setting 

[Andy B]

....
 would I ever ( ),  .....

We only have your word for it .... 

[Lizzie Zoom]

....
 would I ever ( ),  .....

We only have your word for it .... 

Indeed

[LC0112G]

The K&N's real advantage is that its performance doesn't deteriorate as it gets dirty. That's both airflow and filtering performance, which isn't true of a paper filter.

That's because a paper filter actually does what it says on the tin - it filters fine particles from the air before the air reaches the engine. As it filters the pores get blocked.

A K&N on the other hand is absolutely crap at filtering. There is some research online (that sadly I can't find quickly) which shows they allow particles in excess of 10 times the size of the paper filter to pass. If you think that's a good thing then you may as well just take ALL the filters out.

It's more efficient, so flows a lot more air for the same size which makes one really useful for applications that are short of space.

Thing is, the Omega doesn't need more air. If the paper filter can flow (say) 200L per second, and the K&N (say) 500L per second then yes the K&N flows more. But if the engine only needs (say) 100L per second then there is precicely zero benefit. 6000rpm * 3L 4 stroke = 150L/sec.

[Nick W]

The K&N's real advantage is that its performance doesn't deteriorate as it gets dirty. That's both airflow and filtering performance, which isn't true of a paper filter.

That's because a paper filter actually does what it says on the tin - it filters fine particles from the air before the air reaches the engine. As it filters the pores get blocked.

A K&N on the other hand is absolutely crap at filtering. There is some research online (that sadly I can't find quickly) which shows they allow particles in excess of 10 times the size of the paper filter to pass. If you think that's a good thing then you may as well just take ALL the filters out.

It's more efficient, so flows a lot more air for the same size which makes one really useful for applications that are short of space.

Thing is, the Omega doesn't need more air. If the paper filter can flow (say) 200L per second, and the K&N (say) 500L per second then yes the K&N flows more. But if the engine only needs (say) 100L per second then there is precicely zero benefit. 6000rpm * 3L 4 stroke = 150L/sec.

Which is mainly repeating all of my points: like all modifications, especially simple bolt-on ones, a performance filter changes the compromises made.


A paper filter is very good at filtering, but must be changed frequently if that is important. It needs a lot of surface area to meet an engine's breathing requirements. It also needs to be fitted in a rigid case. This tends to make them quiet. They're cheap, which is good because they're not reusable.


Oiled cotton doesn't filter quite as well to start with, but won't change much as it gets dirty. It will be much smaller for the same amount of airflow. It's self supporting too, which can be useful. They're much more expensive to buy, but are infinitely reusable. They don't reduce intake noise much, which is not a good thing for road cars.


I've used them before, and will probably do so again. But it will be for non-standard installations like fitting this 2.9 Granada engine in a Capri:





where there wasn't room for anything else.  Most of the hour(or so) I spent installing them was cutting the hole, making the box and welding it in. If I was doing this job today, I would mount the air flow meters and filters vertically, and with new hoses. But I wouldn't be doing the job on my daily driver over a weekend and need it for work on Monday. Even though the kit was the most expensive single part of the conversion at £110, it was still the best way of doing the job just like every other EFI conversion I've done.

[LC0112G]

Oiled cotton doesn't filter quite as well to start with, but won't change much as it gets dirty. It will be much smaller for the same amount of airflow. It's self supporting too, which can be useful. They're much more expensive to buy, but are infinitely reusable. They don't reduce intake noise much, which is not a good thing for road cars.

And the reason for that is that the pores don't get blocked, because it doesn't actually filter anything out.

[Eyal2002]

I noticed an immediate difference with panel K&N, I am on my second (the 1st one was replaced to paper panel by a machanic who didn't read the big K&N stickers...).
However, I am in the process of investigating force feeding of air, ie I cut the air inlet to the pipe end (in front of the AC fans) and attached a 90 degrees plastic piping "elbow" that starts bigger diameter thrn the stock pipe then it narrows down. By having the 90 deg. curve towards the direction of movement I expect the air pressure to increase down the pipe line into the box as the speed increases, plus expect the MAF to adjust on the fly. That done already, I plan to increase the entire pipe diameter all the way to the air box. Any thought on this at speed "supercharger"? it worked for the Mustangs in the '40s....

Also, I was wondering why the car maker didn't aim the pipe opening forward, and theorized it was to avoid water coming in? anyways didn't see water in my air system, though I do try not to have jets of water into the grill when I am washing the car (has a Catera sports grill).

Eyal

[Nick W]

What you suggest might work. Maybe. You will need to collect the air from a high pressure area. You'll have to make sure it can only be forced into the intake. The whole tract will need to be carefully tuned to work. How are you going to measure the changes - a seat of the pants dyno won't be accurate or repeatable enough.


The real question is just how much ram effect will you actually get at road speeds? Car manufacturers have lots of parameters for air filters; performance is only one. They're nearly all improved by fitting a bigger filter......

[Eyal2002]

We did see manufacturers fit air scoops on bonnets, these are facing forward. In the Omega there is a gap between from AC fans that has air pressure on it at speed. I would love to tell you I put the car on a dyno and inside a wind tunnel with 80mph, but I won't lie, I aim for economy (trip computer on known roads) from easier breathing and reduced drag, and if I get a bit of gain by adding a $2 plastic part......

[Doctor Gollum]

I don't know if this is a wind up or not

The idea exists, but as proposed won't achieve anything.

Basically anything other than a straight pass into the piston will be turbulent air. Air loses energy every time it changes direction and your 90° bends will do nothing to change the air pressure or speed.

Also the factory intake points forward behind the right hand headlight. The grill is only there for radiator airflow

[Doctor Gollum]

We did see manufacturers fit air scoops on bonnets, these are facing forward. In the Omega there is a gap between from AC fans that has air pressure on it at speed. I would love to tell you I put the car on a dyno and inside a wind tunnel with 80mph, but I won't lie, I aim for economy (trip computer on known roads) from easier breathing and reduced drag, and if I get a bit of gain by adding a $2 plastic part......

In which case fit a genuine GM filter, service it regularly and use decent fuel.

[Doctor Gollum]

And nothing costing $2 is going to make anything go faster, certainly not a 1,700kg Omega

[Nick W]

If you could duct straight to the throttle body from the outside, you might make a gain. But the airflow meter, multi rams and all the associated ducting is unlikely to give you anything.


All a straight through filter does in place of an adequately sized paper one is make more noise. It's the 'power increase' most people insist they can feel. That is OK on a rorty car but spoils a large saloon that is focused on comfort.

[Eyal2002]

And nothing costing $2 is going to make anything go faster, certainly not a 1,700kg Omega

The aim is efficiency not speed. Also, why did you write the factory inlet point forward? on my 2002 2.6L it behind the grill pointing up, that baffled me because as I appreciate the comment on turbulant air and the factory setup seems to seriously disrupt the air sucking by having movement airflow perpendicular to the pipe opening. I figured, if anything than the 90 deg. elbow will somewhat aid or better the flow.
Will upload a photo later on, comparing stock vs the elbow.
Appreciate all comments.

[Lizzie Zoom]

And nothing costing $2 is going to make anything go faster, certainly not a 1,700kg Omega

The aim is efficiency not speed. Also, why did you write the factory inlet point forward? on my 2002 2.6L it behind the grill pointing up, that baffled me because as I appreciate the comment on turbulant air and the factory setup seems to seriously disrupt the air sucking by having movement airflow perpendicular to the pipe opening. I figured, if anything than the 90 deg. elbow will somewhat aid or better the flow.
Will upload a photo later on, comparing stock vs the elbow.
Appreciate all comments.

I can only repeat my original comments back in April;  why are you bothering with this project on an old 2.6 car that cannot be improved on?

If you want efficiency not speed, then go for an up to date car that has been designed to be ultra efficient for the 21st century.   

[Doctor Gollum]

And nothing costing $2 is going to make anything go faster, certainly not a 1,700kg Omega

The aim is efficiency not speed. Also, why did you write the factory inlet point forward? on my 2002 2.6L it behind the grill pointing up, that baffled me because as I appreciate the comment on turbulant air and the factory setup seems to seriously disrupt the air sucking by having movement airflow perpendicular to the pipe opening. I figured, if anything than the 90 deg. elbow will somewhat aid or better the flow.
Will upload a photo later on, comparing stock vs the elbow.
Appreciate all comments.

My bad I forgot about the trumpet. 

But bypassing the front multiram isn't going to help any.

[Raeturbo]

The possible tiny gain you may get would be outweighed by the extra weight of the piping etc as you need to be travelling very fast to achieve a decent ram air effect

               https://i.stack.imgur.com/433lx.jpg

[Doctor Gollum]

And it only works if the air is travelling straight* into the intake.

*straight as in a true edge as opposed to directly via some turns and distortions.

Also too much intake speed or too much fuel and it won't ignition the mixture.

[Eyal2002]

Here's a pic for the first test:



Doctor Gollum - Nothing is bypassed, only the trumpet was replaced by a 90 degree and wider opening elbow. Next is to replace the pipe from this elbow to the air filter box, and use a larger diameter flex pipe with no hard turns.
With OOF members help perhaps I can quantify things, if you point me to measure the right parameter (MAF live data?) I was thinking to take a reading in parking running 3000 RPM and then cruising at 3000 RPM on level road. And compare if there is a gain in efficiency.

I am here to make things better with my car, my sole Omega.
I replaced an engine (Y26SE from a Vectra), repainted the car, added tons of modifications to form and function, so no, I do not consider the car "old". It has lots of life in it, it drives great and for its worth I will not find anything close to what it gives me.
I am a proud Omega owner, and any advice to switch to a newer car is, while legitimate, doesn't fit with the vibes I get from this forum. Nothing wrong with striving to achieve higher efficiency, performance or even car looks. When you take pride in something you invest in it, even if it not always the most economical or smartest.

Anyways, if someone can guide me re which parameters to check it will be much appreciated, definitely more than cheap criticism 

[Doctor Gollum]

May as well swap one of theses in...

https://www.pbs.cz/en/Aerospace/Aircraftgines/Turbopropgine-PBS-TP100

Get the pusher version and use it with an adaptor to drive the torque converter.

Joking aside, all that addition adds, is less cooling air.

You'll probably find it runs worse because not only does the intake air immediately turn 90°, it is quickly restricted. Not to mention the swirl.

The factory intake set up with the multirams and the variable intake lenghts is all designed to work as a single, calibrated system.

[Eyal2002]

The possible tiny gain you may get would be outweighed by the extra weight of the piping etc as you need to be travelling very fast to achieve a decent ram air effect

               https://i.stack.imgur.com/433lx.jpg

Wow thank you. Getting somewhere.
Few quick question:
1. Doesn't anybody think the trumpet air flow is hampered by the fact it is NOT pointing forward? is the engine strong enough that it sucks air no matter the angles?
2. Is the air box (filter) is limiting the air flow (anyone tried without it for a moment), and if yes, would added incoming pressure decrease this limit?

Curiousity iften leads to great findings. I am nit changing the inner working of the engine. In fact, I rely on the sensors to take advantage of the richer air just like it does with different atmospheric conditions as is.

[Doctor Gollum]

The 3.2 uses an identical intake system... Same diameters, bends, filter, throttle body, intake manifold, multi ram flaps and injectors.

And that is able to draw in enough air to sustain a VMax (150 mph) run from Tel Aviv to Eilat.

[Eyal2002]

May as well swap one of theses in...

https://www.pbs.cz/en/Aerospace/Aircraftgines/Turbopropgine-PBS-TP100

Get the pusher version and use it with an adaptor to drive the torque converter.

Joking aside, all that addition adds, is less cooling air.

You'll probably find it runs worse because not only does the intake air immediately turn 90°, it is quickly restricted. Not to mention the swirl.

The factory intake set up with the multirams and the variable intake lenghts is all designed to work as a single, calibrated system.

What tou offered will not pass inspection, plus no room for hugh aviation gas.

Anyway with this first setup I did not feel a loss if any kind, I did feel it is better on fast cruise but cannot prove it yet.
Will try to midify a 2nd filter box, large flex pipe then report here.
As for swirls and turns, the "scoop" I am getting is vertically elongated (hope I spell right) is is 3 times the size of the suggested pipe. By having the scoop narrowing down towards the target diameter you get pressuring of air even if it has the internal 45 deg angel. With bernulli effect in mind, and the larger scoop no doubt more air will reach the filter than stock setup. Only question is can the engine software take advantage of that or not.

[Doctor Gollum]

You haven't allowed for the pressure drop when the air gets to the airbox. Or the Y into the first multiram.

Also, the air is drawn in by the engine not forced in from the outside.

If you're genuinely trying to achieve something, then you should understand how the multiram system works before trying to stuff more air into it. Also, the GM engineers would have designed the best system for the application with the following in mind: efficiency, emmisions and packaging.

There's a guide in the FAQ section re the multi rams.

If you genuinely want to make the car more economical, convert it to a manual gearbox.

[Doctor Gollum]

Re reading your last couple of posts, you won't get a larger diameter pipe between the headlight and the radiator support... Certainly not one large enough to do anything meaningful.

And if you do get more air into the filter housing, the engine is only going to draw in what it needs.

For the larger air mass to do anything more than choke the engine, it needs compressing and being kept compressed all the way to the cylinders... This is why superchargers are usually mounted directly over the inlet tracts.

At best, you might achieve a bit more induction noise and increased engine temperatures due to the reduced amount of air reaching the radiator.

Your first priority should be to get the vacuum lines run correctly and the multirams working. 

[Andy B]

......  convert it to a manual gearbox.

 

[Doctor Gollum]

If you require any more convincing, Robseys LS1 powered Omega uses the factory intake behind the headlight with no trumpet in front of the radiator. With the Supercharger running at full chat, it draws enough air behind the headlight to produce 600bhp. Which is nice

[Eyal2002]

If you require any more convincing, Robseys LS1 powered Omega uses the factory intake behind the headlight with no trumpet in front of the radiator. With the Supercharger running at full chat, it draws enough air behind the headlight to produce 600bhp. Which is nice

Amazing. I wonder if he changed the prop shaft.
As for the "switch to manual" offer... I wish. Never saw a 2.6L manual here.
...Plus, a manual tends to make you:

[Doctor Gollum]

Lol, every time you press the clutch, you use your other foot to press the accelerator or brake as required 

Robs V8 conversion is pretty much a Monaro underneath. Which is nice