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[moerome]

Hope not to make this too long, if I get long winded, please forgive me as I'm new to this forum.  Here goes.......

I was researching an issue on the Catera forum where my '99 Catera would crank, but not start. A previous post suggested that the crankshaft position sensor (CSP) needed to be replaced.

So, I went to the dealership and purchased a CPS for $45.00 (+ tax). It was pretty simple to install with the exception of dealing with tight spaces.

Once installed (at 1130 hrs), it cranked up immediately and the Check Engine light went out. Everything was fine until 1600 hrs. I was preparing to leave the petrol station when the car wouldn't start!!!! I had to sit there for about 45 minutes before I could get it started again.

Once it started, I headed straight home. And, once again, the Check Engine light was on. I took a quick look underneath to ensure I had the CPS on both ends plugged in and secured.  I wondered if the CPS I had purchased may have been bad initially.

Here's the latest update on my '99 Cat issue............................

I was able to get it started and ran it up to AutoZone for a scan. It came up with a P0603 troubleshooting error.  Further delving revealed that this code was referring to a "Keep Alive Memory" error.

The guy at AutoZone said that I would have to take it to the dealership to have it reset. So, I put my emotions in check and went to the dealership with error code in hand.

When I arrived at the Service Department, I briefed them the symptoms (crank but won't start), what I did (installed a new CPS), and the results (runs for a little bit, then quits). When I queried them on the error code, you would have thought that I had shined a bright spot light on a herd of deer grazing in the darkness. One of the service guys recovered just enough to do a quick check and tell me that either I need to have a "Idle Relearn" done on the car (cost -- about $73.00) or possibly the Electronic Control Module (ECM) needs to be replaced (cost -- about $300.00 to $400.00).

Quite naturally I went for the first option to perform a idle relearn. Hopefully, that's all that is needed.  I will know more once they call me when it's done.

BTW: If in case the ECM has to be replaced, is there somewhere I can get it at reasonable cost?  And, are there any instructions on installing it myself?

Thanks in advance. Best regards.

[theolodian]

I thought that P0603 just meant that the battery had been disconnected . . .

Oh and the only relearning you need can be done by leaving the ignition on for 15-30 seconds without starting the car.

[moerome]

Theolodian:

Thanks.  

During my installation of the CPS, I never disconnected the battery (was that a bad thing?).  :-/

So with what you're saying, it sounds like the dealership may end up getting over on me with this "Idle Relearning"?  

[Marks DTM Calib]

Can you confirm that the engine cranks but does not start......have you tried cranking it for a few seconds with the throttle wide open, then repeat with the throttle released...

[moerome]

Yes, I have tried both ways.  It seems that after it sits for a while (a minimum of 45 minutes), it cranks right up.  Today, my daughter was on her way to work, and while she was heading up a slight incline in the road, it started stalling.  She pulled over to the shoulder of the road before it died.

As I stated in my previous post, I drove up to the petrol station, and upon attempting to leave, it wouldn't turn over.  I press and released the accelerator on one attempt, did not depress the accelerator at all on another attempt, and pressed the accelerator all the way on another attempt.  It was about an hour later of leaving the key in and sitting there (well, I did push it manually from the petrol pump into a parking spot) before turning the key, slightly depressing the accelerator, and it turned right over (with some protest as if it was going to cut off).

[sounds2k]

... not sure about the cateras, does the paperclip test work on them? Might be worth trying ...

[theolodian]

... not sure about the cateras, does the paperclip test work on them? Might be worth trying ...

It shouldn't, they are OBD2.  Not sure what the paperclip test would do to them, but OTOH a generic OBD2 scanner will work.

[Marks DTM Calib]

When I say foot to the floor, I mean throttle totaly wide open.....(worth checking the throttle cable is not loose under the bonnet) because in this condition the fuel injectors do not fire and hence any fuel in the inlet track (maybe from a leaky injector) will got blown through the engine....

[Ghosts in my machine]

.....(worth checking the throttle cable is not loose under the bonnet)

Aren't the Catera's effectivley rebadged Facelifts so wouldn't have a throttle cable?

[Martin_1962]

Pretty sure they are DBW

[theolodian]

.....(worth checking the throttle cable is not loose under the bonnet)

Aren't the Catera's effectivley rebadged Facelifts so wouldn't have a throttle cable?

There are pre-facelifts too, but no idea about the engines.

[Marks DTM Calib]

No, pre and post facelift....all 3.0V6 Autos....with a modified ECU that supports dual lambda control and OBD...plus its lower compression so 10ish Bhp less....

[moerome]

Thanks guys.....

It's at the dealership now, so I'll have to see what their verdict is going to be.  Let you know when I find out.  Cheers.

[moerome]

Okay, I just received a call from the dealership (they would call near the close of business) and told me that according to their scanner, it all points back to the crankshaft position sensor.  They "recommended" that a CPS by GM be installed.

I had to inform the guy in a "by the way" fashion that the CPS I purchased was from their Parts Dept.  Therefore, it's a bonafide GM product.  The service guy says, "Oh.  Well, I pass this information along to the mechanic."  I said, "Sure.  I also have my receipt as well."

The saga continues.......I'll keep you posted.  Cheers.

[TheBoy]

Okay, I just received a call from the dealership (they would call near the close of business) and told me that according to their scanner, it all points back to the crankshaft position sensor.  They "recommended" that a CPS by GM be installed.

I had to inform the guy in a "by the way" fashion that the CPS I purchased was from their Parts Dept.  Therefore, it's a bonafide GM product.  The service guy says, "Oh.  Well, I pass this information along to the mechanic."  I said, "Sure.  I also have my receipt as well."

The saga continues.......I'll keep you posted.  Cheers.

When fitted new sensor, how did you run cable? Could it have caught on exhaust, or on the hot oil pipes it was previously attached to?

[moerome]

I ran it from the top to bottom.  I had both ends covered because of the tight quarters of threading it through.  The car was cooled down quite a bit, so no concern with hot (or warm) exhaust pipes.

In spite of the precautions I took, is this thing that sensitive?

[STMO123]

I think the point being made is that the cable on these things is like a mini co-axial, so as to shield it from spurrious signals. If it becomes damaged it can send a false signal back.

[TheBoy]

I ran it from the top to bottom.  I had both ends covered because of the tight quarters of threading it through.  The car was cooled down quite a bit, so no concern with hot (or warm) exhaust pipes.

In spite of the precautions I took, is this thing that sensitive?

The original route puts it alongside some hot oil pipes.  The route we use now in UK is from sensor out to ABS unit, then back to connector, though I suspect your USA engine bays are the other way to ours as we are Right Hand Drive...

[moerome]

Yes.  The route is opposite (left hand side).  I fed it behind the engine toward the firewall then downward.  Had to maneuver between the left exhaust and top of the oil pan to plug into the engine block.  Fairly simple, but I won't know the true verdict from the dealership until Monday.

They initially assumed that I bought an aftermarket sensor, when I told them that I got it from their parts department, the attitude changed a bit.

[TheBoy]

Yes.  The route is opposite (left hand side).  I fed it behind the engine toward the firewall then downward.  Had to maneuver between the left exhaust and top of the oil pan to plug into the engine block.  Fairly simple, but I won't know the true verdict from the dealership until Monday.

They initially assumed that I bought an aftermarket sensor, when I told them that I got it from their parts department, the attitude changed a bit.

Trouble is with the original route (that you took by sound of it) is there are some very hot oil pipes there which can cause damage to cable...

Let us know the outcome

[moerome]

Okay, it ended up being another crankshaft position sensor replacement.  Since I had purchased the previous from them, it was still under warranty.  However, before I could tell the dealership that I would pick it up and put one it on myself, they had already installed it.  Hence, I ended up paying for labor.  At least it wasn't something worse.

Thanks for all the feedback.  It is much appreciated!!!!  

[TheBoy]

Okay, it ended up being another crankshaft position sensor replacement.  Since I had purchased the previous from them, it was still under warranty.  However, before I could tell the dealership that I would pick it up and put one it on myself, they had already installed it.  Hence, I ended up paying for labor.  At least it wasn't something worse.

Thanks for all the feedback.  It is much appreciated!!!!  

And thats sorted the problem completely?

[moerome]

Apparently it has.  No hiccups, stalls, or no starts.

I spoke with the mechanic at length and he mentioned that since end that goes into the block is so close to the oil filter housing unit that it doesn't take much to 'crack' it if it's not inserted correctly.

I remember it being a tough fit, but I didn't bang up against anything, especially with the oil filter case.

[Nextgen]

Interesting, its a 3.0 V6 yes? From what I remember, the sensor is sealed to the block with an o-ring and once the torx bolt is out, it slid out easily, and was easy to replace with a slight pop. Unless it caught a clobbering with  a wrench or something (or was already cracked !), I'd say it would be bloody hard to destroy it!!

Mine had its wires toasted on the manifold....

Edwin

[moerome]

Yes, its a 3.0V6 like the Omega B.  With the Cateras here in the US, the sensor is right next to the oil filter housing.  The torx bolt is right smack next to the base of the oil filter housing.  You have to slightly twist the sensor to get it into the block.  Trying to pull it straight out and inserting straight in isn't an option because of the tight quarters.  Nonetheless, she's running fine now.

[TheBoy]

Yes, its a 3.0V6 like the Omega B.  With the Cateras here in the US, the sensor is right next to the oil filter housing.  The torx bolt is right smack next to the base of the oil filter housing.  You have to slightly twist the sensor to get it into the block.  Trying to pull it straight out and inserting straight in isn't an option because of the tight quarters.  Nonetheless, she's running fine now.

Sounds very similar, and I imagine its identical block/sensor.  Does yours have the spin on filter, or the paper element one?