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[BazaJT]

A merger has been completed between Fiat/Chrysler and the PSA group making this conglomerate reportedly the fourth largest[by volume]car maker in the world.Both the Vauxhall and Opel names will apparently survive under this new agreement.

[Broomies Mate]

A merger has been completed between Fiat/Chrysler and the PSA group making this conglomerate reportedly the fourth largest[by volume]car maker in the world.Both the Vauxhall and Opel names will apparently survive under this new agreement.

For now.

I don't see how the Vauxhall brand will survive.  It's not like people still buy Vauxhall's because it's a 'Great British Brand'..... look at Rover, even BMW couldn't make them stick.

I envisage the Vauxhall brand being wrapped up pretty soon, and Opel being the 'brand-name' Europe-wide.

[Andy B]

The Vauxhall name is already just a badge. When you (or scum bags) remove the Griffin from the grille of an Insignia you can see the Opel Blitz as part of the moulding.

[Sir Tigger KC]

A merger has been completed between Fiat/Chrysler and the PSA group making this conglomerate reportedly the fourth largest[by volume]car maker in the world.Both the Vauxhall and Opel names will apparently survive under this new agreement.

For now.

I don't see how the Vauxhall brand will survive.  It's not like people still buy Vauxhall's because it's a 'Great British Brand'..... look at Rover, even BMW couldn't make them stick.

I envisage the Vauxhall brand being wrapped up pretty soon, and Opel being the 'brand-name' Europe-wide.

Yeh but, no but... We're not in Euuurp anymore!                                    Apparently! 

[Broomies Mate]

Yeh but, no but... We're not in Euuurp anymore!                                    Apparently! 

 

We will ALWAYS be in Europe.  We've left the EU.

[Sir Tigger KC]

The Vauxhall name is already just a badge. When you (or scum bags) remove the Griffin from the grille of an Insignia you can see the Opel Blitz as part of the moulding.

Like These? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etf3yMznKN4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWbaCVSJMsg

[Sir Tigger KC]

Yeh but, no but... We're not in Euuurp anymore!                                    Apparently! 

 

We will ALWAYS be in Europe.  We've left the EU.

I know that and you know that, but try telling that to some!   

[Broomies Mate]

I know that and you know that, but try telling that to some!   

Indeed...... You can't educate porc/schweinefleisch/cerdo! 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Try telling it to me. 
We are not in Europe. We are an Island close to the coast of Europe. 

And yes, I reckon the Vauxhall brand will soon be consigned to history. I think Opel will too. Peugeot is probably a more respected brand now then either of them.
A very sad state of affairs. 

[Broomies Mate]

Try telling it to me. 
We are not in Europe. We are an Island close to the coast of Europe. 

And yes, I reckon the Vauxhall brand will soon be consigned to history. I think Opel will too. Peugeot is probably a more respected brand now then either of them.
A very sad state of affairs. 

Simple Geography isn't for everyone. 

I'm not so sure.  I frequently spend time on the continent, and the Corsa and Astra are incredibly popular.  PSA group must have seen a huge amount of value in the Opel brand, else they wouldn't have bought them.

I'll give Vauxhall 18months.  And whilst I agree it's sad for a long established 'British Brand', Vauxhall/Opel haven't built a decent car in decades.

GM was the straw that broke the camels back with Saab (they were in trouble waaaaaay before GM took them over), but the same could be said about Volvo, and Ford did a good job of that.  Skoda are now a bone-fide decent brand under the VAG group.

Oh, it's all a mess! 

[STEMO]

Try telling it to me. 
We are not in Europe. We are an Island close to the coast of Europe. 

And yes, I reckon the Vauxhall brand will soon be consigned to history. I think Opel will too. Peugeot is probably a more respected brand now then either of them.
A very sad state of affairs. 

Simple Geography isn't for everyone. 

I'm not so sure.  I frequently spend time on the continent, and the Corsa and Astra are incredibly popular.  PSA group must have seen a huge amount of value in the Opel brand, else they wouldn't have bought them.

I'll give Vauxhall 18months.  And whilst I agree it's sad for a long established 'British Brand', Vauxhall/Opel haven't built a decent car in decades.

GM was the straw that broke the camels back with Saab (they were in trouble waaaaaay before GM took them over), but the same could be said about Volvo, and Ford did a good job of that.  Skoda are now a bone-fide decent brand under the VAG group.

Oh, it's all a mess! 

Volvo is Chinese, owned by Geely.

[Broomies Mate]

Volvo is Chinese, owned by Geely.

Aware of that Steve, but they were 'bailed out' by Ford, which turned into a success story.

[STEMO]

Volvo is Chinese, owned by Geely.

Aware of that Steve, but they were 'bailed out' by Ford, which turned into a success story.

I've been having a look at the Chinese car market, and it is coming on in leaps and bounds. I'm not saying it's world beating, yet, but compared to five years ago, they are are producing some good stuff.

[Nick W]

Vauxhall has been nothing but RHD and a meaningless badge for decades. It hasn't been British owned for almost a century. GM should have put it out of its misery years ago. I think that was the thinking behind using the Chevrolet badge a while back when they were killing off the US sub-brands; Chevy was going to be the only global name.


 PSA and Fiat merging completely isn't a huge surprise either.

[Broomies Mate]

I've been having a look at the Chinese car market, and it is coming on in leaps and bounds. I'm not saying it's world beating, yet, but compared to five years ago, they are are producing some good stuff.

Genuinely, the Chinese have done things right.  They have bought up brands from all over the world, used their expertise (and patents) to create some excellent machinery.

NEVS for example, bought all of Saab's technology, joined with a Chinese company (Panda New Energy) and are producing a decent amount of electric cars based on the 9-3.  Admittedly, only sold in China, but it wont be long before they are global.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

If people are stupid enough to buy them. 
After this pandemic along with all their other sins against the rest of the world, we should be boycotting them.

[Doctor Gollum]

If people are stupid enough to buy them. 
After this pandemic along with all their other sins against the rest of the world, we should be boycotting them.

That day is nearer than it seems.

[Kevin Wood]

If people are stupid enough to buy them. 
After this pandemic along with all their other sins against the rest of the world, we should be boycotting them.

Nah - people will still buy whatever cr@p has the cheapest finance deal just to have something new on the driveway to keep up with the Joneses.

Whether it's a French, Italian or Chinese shitbox will not even cross their minds.

[Doctor Gollum]

The Chinese produced crap struggles to meet reasonable safety standards, thank God, so we don't get quite so much foisted on us.

The do deals with companies, build X amount and steal all the details and build a likeness of the original.

If they can't successfully copy cheap electronic components, they've no chance of producing a decent car

[Broomies Mate]

The Chinese produced crap struggles to meet reasonable safety standards, thank God, so we don't get quite so much foisted on us.

The do deals with companies, build X amount and steal all the details and build a likeness of the original.

If they can't successfully copy cheap electronic components, they've no chance of producing a decent car

But that is where you are wrong! 

The best electronic components come out of China and have done for a long time.... it's the knock-off's which are sub-standard.  When China get their shit together in regards to copyright/plagiarism they will do very well for their reputation.

[Nick W]

If people are stupid enough to buy them. 
After this pandemic along with all their other sins against the rest of the world, we should be boycotting them.

An S60 or 90 has far more appeal to me than any of the competitors, none of which are British owned. I'd buy an Evora over a Porsche, although an Elise or A110 would be a difficult decision.  Geely are responsible for the new London cab, which shares most of its mechanical and electronic parts with Volvo and other marques. When I first saw it I said it would make a good van, which is now available although it is expensive.


There's nothing stupid about buying the best option for you. Blind nationalism is a very different matter.

[Doctor Gollum]

The Chinese produced crap struggles to meet reasonable safety standards, thank God, so we don't get quite so much foisted on us.

The do deals with companies, build X amount and steal all the details and build a likeness of the original.

If they can't successfully copy cheap electronic components, they've no chance of producing a decent car

But that is where you are wrong! 

The best electronic components come out of China and have done for a long time.... it's the knock-off's which are sub-standard.  When China get their shit together in regards to copyright/plagiarism they will do very well for their reputation.

That's what I said

If. They. Can't. Successfully. Copy...

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

The Japanese story was the same 50 - 60 years ago. Everyone leaughed at them at first. They had the last laugh though when they put everyone else out of business.
China is doing the same , but its on a much bigger scale which to me is a serious worry.

[Marks DTM Calib]

The Chinese produced crap struggles to meet reasonable safety standards, thank God, so we don't get quite so much foisted on us.

The do deals with companies, build X amount and steal all the details and build a likeness of the original.

If they can't successfully copy cheap electronic components, they've no chance of producing a decent car

But that is where you are wrong! 

The best electronic components come out of China and have done for a long time.... it's the knock-off's which are sub-standard.  When China get their shit together in regards to copyright/plagiarism they will do very well for their reputation.

Not actually true, and China is not the place to make electronic assemblies either.

They are doing well because they recognise this and don't rely on China to get the quality 

[STEMO]

The Chinese know how to make chips for cars, though:

Chip-shortage 'crisis' halts car-company output https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55704936

[Doctor Gollum]

The shortage is because the manufacturers cut production and consequently cut back supply orders... The delays are self inflicted because it takes suppliers time to ramp up production.

Presumably they buy tightly regulated and controlled chips rather than the £500 container job lots that they foist upon the retail market as 'genuine' copies

Not that that would make for a good headline

[STEMO]

The shortage is because the manufacturers cut production and consequently cut back supply order... The delays are self inflicted because it takes suppliers time to ramp up production.

Presumably they buy tightly regulated and controlled chips rather than the £500 container job lots that they foist upon the retail market as 'genuine' copies

Not that that would make for a good headline

You read the news report then. 

[TheBoy]

look at Rover, even BMW couldn't make them stick.

BMW never wanted the Rover brand, they wanted the technology and the processes.

[Doctor Gollum]

The shortage is because the manufacturers cut production and consequently cut back supply order... The delays are self inflicted because it takes suppliers time to ramp up production.

Presumably they buy tightly regulated and controlled chips rather than the £500 container job lots that they foist upon the retail market as 'genuine' copies

Not that that would make for a good headline

You read the news report then. 

I gave up after the fourth paragraph once it was clear that it bore limited relation to the header