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[Doctor Gollum]

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/changes-to-hgv-and-bus-driving-tests-and-allowing-car-drivers-to-tow-a-trailer-without-an-extra-test/changes-to-hgv-and-bus-driving-tests-and-allowing-car-drivers-to-tow-a-trailer-without-an-extra-test

One question, 'Should an 18 year old be able to go straight from a B licence to a C+E with a single test?'

[Mr Skrunts]

They are taught to pass a test, they then go on to learn to drive properly.  In my day we could pass a test and go on the motorway which is something we wernt taught to do at motorway speeds.

I think a lot of the sections need extra certificatin including pulling/reversing trailers and caravans.

[Doctor Gollum]

They are taught to pass a test, they then go on to learn to drive properly.  In my day we could pass a test and go on the motorway which is something we wernt taught to do at motorway speeds.

I think a lot of the sections need extra certificatin including pulling/reversing trailers and caravans.

That's not strictly true. What's the difference between 70mph on a two lane dual carriageway and 70mph on a two lane motorway?

The answer is very little. The signs are green and the dual carriageway will potentially have roundabouts, traffic lights and crossing traffic whereas the motorway has blue signs and slip road junctions.

Arguably motorways are easier to drive on than dual carriageways.

[STEMO]

The standard of driving on the roads today, by both hgv drivers and motorists in general, cannot really get much worse. People know that they can virtually do as they like, there is no one to police it.

[Rangie]

On one of the back roads in a village not far from us the speed limit is 40 MPH several motorists were caught doing over 70MPH & seven over 100MPH in a sweep by Police after several complaints by the locals, so as Stemo says people just think rules don't apply.

[Andy B]

....

One question, 'Should an 18 year old be able to go straight from a B licence to a C+E with a single test?'

Yes! You did. And so did I.
What is safer .... a car weighing 1750kg towing a trailer of 1749 or a car like mine - 2.2 tonnes towing the same trailer?

I'm not really sure what was the reason for the changes in 97/98

[Rangie]

Passed my test at 17 & then bought a 3.3 litre Vauxhall Velox towed trailers with camping equipment with it, still here to tell the tales.

[Andy B]

Passed my test at 17 & then bought a 3.3 litre Vauxhall Velox towed trailers with camping equipment with it, still here to tell the tales.

And a 17 yr old could do the same thing tomorrow as long as the train weight is less than a plated 3500kg .... the 'problem' arises if they'd wanted to tow my caravan with my ML

[Sir Tigger KC]

Given that there have been thousands of Eastern European HGV drivers plying our roads who took their test with a tractor and trailer, I can't see a problem!   

[Doctor Gollum]

....

One question, 'Should an 18 year old be able to go straight from a B licence to a C+E with a single test?'

Yes! You did. And so did I.
What is safer .... a car weighing 1750kg towing a trailer of 1749 or a car like mine - 2.2 tonnes towing the same trailer?

I'm not really sure what was the reason for the changes in 97/98

Reread what I typed and report back...

Big difference between a plastic house and a 46t Artic

[STEMO]

Passed my test at 17 & then bought a 3.3 litre Vauxhall Velox towed trailers with camping equipment with it, still here to tell the tales.

I had a crest a for a while with the same engine.

[Rangie]

Passed my test at 17 & then bought a 3.3 litre Vauxhall Velox towed trailers with camping equipment with it, still here to tell the tales.

I had a crest a for a while with the same engine.

.   


Mine had the Hydramatic gearbox lovely car reg was CLF 410B , car cost me £160 in 1971 & £156 to insure it .

[Andy H]

I didn't realise that my C1+E entitled me to drive up to 12 tonne truck & trailer.

Got totally lost in the description of the proposal. It doesn't appear to involve any change to the HGV or PSV classes and no mention of operator licences.

[Doctor Gollum]

I didn't realise that my C1+E entitled me to drive up to 12 tonne truck & trailer.

Got totally lost in the description of the proposal. It doesn't appear to involve any change to the HGV or PSV classes and no mention of operator licences.

It probably doesn't. 107 limits you to 8,250 kgs. A separate trailer test might well give you the full entitlement, as would C+E.

I have code 107 against the C1+E, but this is superceded by my C+E. Basically can drive anything, towing anything as long as it is within the plated weight of both towing vehicle and trailer.

Operator licences are a different matter all together. The classes won't be changing. It's rather a discussion about changing how licences are attained and possibly allowing approved training schools to self certify some of the off road parts of the test such as the revering exercise. 

[Viral_Jim]

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/changes-to-hgv-and-bus-driving-tests-and-allowing-car-drivers-to-tow-a-trailer-without-an-extra-test/changes-to-hgv-and-bus-driving-tests-and-allowing-car-drivers-to-tow-a-trailer-without-an-extra-test

One question, 'Should an 18 year old be able to go straight from a B licence to a C+E with a single test?'

I guess the question could be turned around to ask whether doing a test in a transit dually to get your C1 adds anything over a car test.

[Doctor Gollum]

It depends. To be used for the test, it has to be over 3.5t GVW which actually makes for a very rare Transit (the extra van weighs more than the extra payload).

The test for C1 is identical to the C test, including medical and Driver CPC parts. So any one with half a brain would just do the C test.

However, there's a strong demand for C1 drivers for Ambulances and Police response units (the large Sprinter cell vans) as most are now 6.5t chassis based. So to do the test in a 6.5t Iveco van or an old Ambulance actually makes sense as that's what most C1 candidates will be driving. 

It also makes it cheaper to run the training as the vehicle is cheaper to operate.

[countrywoman]

I had to take any vans over 3.5 from there mot as most of the kids at work didnt have the licence to drive one, being an old fool I can drive up to a mini bus towing a trailer.

[Andy H]

I didn't realise that my C1+E entitled me to drive up to 12 tonne truck & trailer.

Got totally lost in the description of the proposal. It doesn't appear to involve any change to the HGV or PSV classes and no mention of operator licences.

It probably doesn't. 107 limits you to 8,250 kgs. A separate trailer test might well give you the full entitlement, as would C+E.

I have code 107 against the C1+E, but this is superceded by my C+E. Basically can drive anything, towing anything as long as it is within the plated weight of both towing vehicle and trailer.

Operator licences are a different matter all together. The classes won't be changing. It's rather a discussion about changing how licences are attained and possibly allowing approved training schools to self certify some of the off road parts of the test such as the revering exercise. 

You are right.
I hadn't noticed the code 107 - 'not more than 8,250 kilograms'. No harm done as the heaviest I have driven is 7.5t.

I am puzzled by D1E with code 119 - 'weight limit for vehicle does not apply'. Is that the class that allows people to take all but 16 of the seats out of a bus and call it a motorhome while towing a trailer?

[Doctor Gollum]

I didn't realise that my C1+E entitled me to drive up to 12 tonne truck & trailer.

Got totally lost in the description of the proposal. It doesn't appear to involve any change to the HGV or PSV classes and no mention of operator licences.

It probably doesn't. 107 limits you to 8,250 kgs. A separate trailer test might well give you the full entitlement, as would C+E.

I have code 107 against the C1+E, but this is superceded by my C+E. Basically can drive anything, towing anything as long as it is within the plated weight of both towing vehicle and trailer.

Operator licences are a different matter all together. The classes won't be changing. It's rather a discussion about changing how licences are attained and possibly allowing approved training schools to self certify some of the off road parts of the test such as the revering exercise. 

You are right.
I hadn't noticed the code 107 - 'not more than 8,250 kilograms'. No harm done as the heaviest I have driven is 7.5t.

I am puzzled by D1E with code 119 - 'weight limit for vehicle does not apply'. Is that the class that allows people to take all but 16 of the seats out of a bus and call it a motorhome while towing a trailer?

There's an assumed weight for passengers, most 16 seat buses are rated at 4.6t+ the difference being that buses tend to be better driven (for passenger comfort reasons) than a 3.5t Lwb Sprinter doing newspaper deliveries.

Also, unless you have taken a D1/D test and CPC, you can't drive a minibus for hire and reward.

Camper vans are basically exempt as long as your licence allows the gross weight. So with C1 you could drive a 7.5t camper, you might start getting into issues if you decided to convert a doubledecker three axle coach

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I was able to pass my bike test on a 100 MPH 250cc two stroke twin.

I knew a kid who passed his bike test at 17 on a timid 60 MPH Suzuki Bloop.

Within a week he traded it for a Suzuki GS1000S, complete with the 'Walls ice cream' paint job.

Too much power, too soon, he died very soon after.

[ronnyd]

I was able to pass my bike test on a 100 MPH 250cc two stroke twin.

I knew a kid who passed his bike test at 17 on a timid 60 MPH Suzuki Bloop.

Within a week he traded it for a Suzuki GS1000S, complete with the 'Walls ice cream' paint job.

Too much power, too soon, he died very soon after.

Yeah, passed mine on a Greeves 250cc Villiers 2stroke. Only bike i've ever had, loved it. Think about getting another at times but perhaps 76 is pushing it a bit with all the numpties on the roads now. 

[New POD]

They are taught to pass a test, they then go on to learn to drive properly.  In my day we could pass a test and go on the motorway which is something we wernt taught to do at motorway speeds.

I think a lot of the sections need extra certificatin including pulling/reversing trailers and caravans.

That's not strictly true. What's the difference between 70mph on a two lane dual carriageway and 70mph on a two lane motorway?

The answer is very little. The signs are green and the dual carriageway will potentially have roundabouts, traffic lights and crossing traffic whereas the motorway has blue signs and slip road junctions.

Arguably motorways are easier to drive on than dual carriageways.

On the one hand motorways are safer, because hard shoulder. On the other hand dual carriageways are simpler because only lanes.
I taught my son to drive on motorways in a 998 mini.
And my daughter in a 1600 Bini Cooper.
And most of that involved teaching them.to accelerate on the slip road.

[biggriffin]

In oldern days you took your HGV1 test on a Friday after 4days training, got a job Friday/Saturday and was catching the boat in Dover on Sunday.

I know before that after 9hrs 18)19 year olds were flying spitfires into combat, different times.
Would I let a modern 18 year old drive a 44ton artic the majority NO,  they struggle with a push bike and road sense,they all think they are entitled to drive like Runts.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

And in the olden days trucks didnt have speed limiters. Anyone remember the "motorway madness" in the 70,s when there were huge pileups involving dozens of trucks and cars in the fog, because they all went at the same speed ?
I remember my Dad driving down from Stranraer to Essex, and telling me when he arrived that he had been terrified when doing 70 + in lane three with a truck inches off his bumper because it wanted to pass him.

[Lizzie Zoom]

In oldern days you took your HGV1 test on a Friday after 4days training, got a job Friday/Saturday and was catching the boat in Dover on Sunday.

I know before that after 9hrs 18)19 year olds were flying spitfires into combat, different times.
Would I let a modern 18 year old drive a 44ton artic the majority NO,  they struggle with a push bike and road sense,they all think they are entitled to drive like Runts.

Yes, but many of those youngsters went to their first airfield after those 9 hours of basic flying training, took off, only to not come back because flying in real combat against highly experienced, battle hardened, Luftwaffe pilots proved too much.

So it is if you let 18/19 year olds get HGV licences after basic instruction. The reality of driving massive 44 tonnes lorries for hours on end, on very busy roads proves too much, almost as much as meeting the Luftwaffe!  (Well, perhaps not quite!! )

[Andy B]

.....
And most of that involved teaching them.to accelerate on the slip road.

I wish someone would teach the masses how to join a motorway. The slip road where I join the M61 on my way home from work is long enough to be doing a ton in a decent car, but loads of drivers just want to get into lane 1 as soon as possible ... no matter how slow they are going.

[Sir Tigger KC]

.....
And most of that involved teaching them.to accelerate on the slip road.

I wish someone would teach the masses how to join a motorway. The slip road where I join the M61 on my way home from work is long enough to be doing a ton in a decent car, but loads of drivers just want to get into lane 1 as soon as possible ... no matter how slow they are going.

Definitely!  It really gets my goat when you get stuck behind someone tootling up the slip road at 40mph to join the motorway and conversely slow down on the motorway before entering the exit slip. 

[Doctor Gollum]

In oldern days you took your HGV1 test on a Friday after 4days training, got a job Friday/Saturday and was catching the boat in Dover on Sunday.

I know before that after 9hrs 18)19 year olds were flying spitfires into combat, different times.
Would I let a modern 18 year old drive a 44ton artic the majority NO,  they struggle with a push bike and road sense,they all think they are entitled to drive like Runts.

Yes, but many of those youngsters went to their first airfield after those 9 hours of basic flying training, took off, only to not come back because flying in real combat against highly experienced, battle hardened, Luftwaffe pilots proved too much.

So it is if you let 18/19 year olds get HGV licences after basic instruction. The reality of driving massive 44 tonnes lorries for hours on end, on very busy roads proves too much, almost as much as meeting the Luftwaffe!  (Well, perhaps not quite!! )

When they crash and kill people it's outside your house not over the Channel or somewhere forgotten like, I don't know, Belgium

[dave the builder]

.....
And most of that involved teaching them.to accelerate on the slip road.

I wish someone would teach the masses how to join a motorway. The slip road where I join the M61 on my way home from work is long enough to be doing a ton in a decent car, but loads of drivers just want to get into lane 1 as soon as possible ... no matter how slow they are going.

Definitely!  It really gets my goat when you get stuck behind someone tootling up the slip road at 40mph to join the motorway and conversely slow down on the motorway before entering the exit slip. 

Indeed ,same applies to dual carriageways 
I think half of them just close their eyes and hope for the best 

[countrywoman]

The roads are full of tommy tankers that do not have a clue how to drive, stuck behind one yesterday doing 35 (in a 60) and braking for a bend I go round at 70 ( typo officer honest)