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Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Andy B on 10 May 2022, 22:12:03

Title: whose fault?
Post by: Andy B on 10 May 2022, 22:12:03
'you' are turning right onto a main road from a side road.
A car on the main road coming towards you on your right is indicating left to turn left into the road you're tuning out of.
You move forward to make your right turn ..... meanwhile
the car behind the car tuning left overtakes said car & broadside you.

Genuine question ..... who's to blame? You? Or the overtaking car?

Asking for a friend!  ::) (honestly not me but my young nephew)
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: STEMO on 10 May 2022, 22:17:52
It's a difficult one but, if I was forced to make a judgment, I would say the car pulling out of the side road should not proceed until they can see that the main road is clear.
It could have been a cyclist coming around the car and that would have been game shot and match.
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: Raeturbo on 10 May 2022, 22:19:38
I agree
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: dave the builder on 10 May 2022, 22:22:00
You have to ensure that your path is clear to enter/join a road without slowing other road users
so I'd say the driver who pulled out the exit
the person following the car turning in can overtake IF the path is clear ,or continue at speed in the same lane ,either way it would hit anyone pulling out .
that's what I would think , maybe there's a "rule book" for the highway
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: STEMO on 10 May 2022, 22:26:31
Highway Code:
You must not assume, when waiting at a junction, that a vehicle coming from the right and signalling left will actually turn. Wait and make sure

You must look all around before emerging. Do not cross or join a road until there is a gap large enough for you to do so safely.
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: Andy B on 10 May 2022, 22:29:02
It's a difficult one but, if I was forced to make a judgment, I would say the car pulling out of the side road should not proceed until they can see that the main road is clear.
It could have been a cyclist coming around the car and that would have been game shot and match.

It is a difficult one  ....
I'm undecided too. The overtaking car also has to ensure that his/her road is clear too. I know that on occasion when I've pulled out to pass a car turning left I've been very aware that a car could pull out of the side road  :-\
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: STEMO on 10 May 2022, 22:30:53
It's a difficult one but, if I was forced to make a judgment, I would say the car pulling out of the side road should not proceed until they can see that the main road is clear.
It could have been a cyclist coming around the car and that would have been game shot and match.

It is a difficult one  ....
I'm undecided too. The overtaking car also has to ensure that his/her road is clear too. I know that on occasion when I've pulled out to pass a car turning left I've been very aware that a car could pull out of the side road  :-\
Since my first post I've quoted the Highway Code. Your nephew is in the wrong. If he'd have waited to make sure that the car was actually turning, he'd have missed the overtaking car.
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: Andy B on 10 May 2022, 22:32:33
..... until there is a gap large enough for you to do so safely.

presumably there would have been if the overtaking car hadn't been there.

The car my nephew was in was a Kia Picanto? (the very smallest Kia) had all it's air bags deploy so assume it'll be written off. It's only just gone back on the road after roof tiles were blown off their house's roof onto it in a recent storm.
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: STEMO on 10 May 2022, 22:35:35
He can, of course, argue the toss. Insurance companies do like to dismiss these  things as knock for knock. The other driver might push it though, especially if he believes he's in the right.
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: Andy B on 10 May 2022, 22:36:24
.....
Since my first post I've quoted the Highway Code. Your nephew is in the wrong. If he'd have waited to make sure that the car was actually turning, he'd have missed the overtaking car.

Probably.
Depending on the road junction it's possible to see that the car indicating car left is actually turning left and still have a car overtake it while I'm deciding whether to pull out
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: STEMO on 10 May 2022, 22:36:52
..... until there is a gap large enough for you to do so safely.

presumably there would have been if the overtaking car hadn't been there.

The car my nephew was in was a Kia Picanto? (the very smallest Kia) had all it's air bags deploy so assume it'll be written off. It's only just gone back on the road after roof tiles were blown off their house's roof onto it in a recent storm.
If the other car hit him broadside on the drivers side, he's lucky he's around to tell the tale.
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: STEMO on 10 May 2022, 22:41:03
Tell your nephew to move to Bradford. They have different rules there or, should I say, they don't have any rules there. If you're driving along and see a car waiting to pull out, it's gonna pull out.
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: Andy B on 10 May 2022, 22:41:38
..... until there is a gap large enough for you to do so safely.

presumably there would have been if the overtaking car hadn't been there.

The car my nephew was in was a Kia Picanto? (the very smallest Kia) had all it's air bags deploy so assume it'll be written off. It's only just gone back on the road after roof tiles were blown off their house's roof onto it in a recent storm.
If the other car hit him broadside on the drivers side, he's lucky he's around to tell the tale.
There's photo showing the damage to the car. It was hit smack back in the middle of the car, B post is bent. It must have been a real shock as the car that hit would have just been a few inches form him when the dust settled .... he's a snow flake at the best of times.  ::)
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: Andy B on 10 May 2022, 22:42:51
Tell your nephew to move to Bradford. They have different rules there or, should I say, they don't have any rules there. If you're driving along and see a car waiting to pull out, it's gonna pull out.
;D ;D ;D
He'd definitely stand out in Bratford ..... white with blue hair!  ::) ::)
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: STEMO on 10 May 2022, 22:44:14
..... until there is a gap large enough for you to do so safely.

presumably there would have been if the overtaking car hadn't been there.

The car my nephew was in was a Kia Picanto? (the very smallest Kia) had all it's air bags deploy so assume it'll be written off. It's only just gone back on the road after roof tiles were blown off their house's roof onto it in a recent storm.
If the other car hit him broadside on the drivers side, he's lucky he's around to tell the tale.
There's photo showing the damage to the car. It was hit smack back in the middle of the car, B post is bent. It must have been a real shock as the car that hit would have just been a few inches form him when the dust settled .... he's a snow flake at the best of times.  ::)
No doubt when he looked out of the drivers side window, he got a close up of a very angry face  ;D
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: Andy B on 10 May 2022, 22:46:06
....
No doubt when he looked out of the drivers side window, he got a close up of a very angry face  ;D

 ;D ;D No doubt  :y
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 11 May 2022, 00:03:48
Technicalities aside, it shows very poor roadcraft to overtake on a road with side roads where there is traffic waiting to turn, IMHO.
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: Raeturbo on 11 May 2022, 00:50:41
Indeed, a traffic  cop would never do that.
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 11 May 2022, 04:08:04
Were the police involved?

Their input may well have a bearing on culpability from an insurance perspective.  :-\

Had a similar incident where I T-boned a Maestro with a Renault 25... Me driving along a road, when said Maestro (driven by a learner) pulled out of a side road on my left having been flashed out by an on coming car, and so pulled  out in front of me without looking to their right first.

That got settled 50/50, because although all four wheels locked up, it was suggested that I may have been speeding, even though they were technically bang to rights.
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: Andy B on 11 May 2022, 07:49:30
Were the police involved? ...
Don't think so  :-\
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: Andy B on 11 May 2022, 07:50:20
Technicalities aside, it shows very poor roadcraft to overtake on a road with side roads where there is traffic waiting to turn, IMHO.

That's what I thought
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: Andy B on 11 May 2022, 07:52:11
....
That got settled 50/50,  ......

It seems that's often the easiest way out for insurance companies
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 11 May 2022, 10:05:53
....
That got settled 50/50,  ......

It seems that's often the easiest way out for insurance companies
It may be appropriate in this case as both vehicles involved were obscured from each other by the vehicle turning left :-\
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: Raeturbo on 11 May 2022, 11:25:55
Have you checked the road markings? Double white lines near the junction for example? Perhaps.
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: STEMO on 11 May 2022, 12:27:02
The insurance company will decide, pending objections from either party. But, in my opinion, anyone who gets hit coming out of a side road is at fault.
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 11 May 2022, 13:52:24
It's a difficult one but, if I was forced to make a judgment, I would say the car pulling out of the side road should not proceed until they can see that the main road is clear.
It could have been a cyclist coming around the car and that would have been game shot and match.

Pretty much this.

People (usually girlies) often have their indicator flashing for hours after the have made a turn.

Another hazard to be aware of is  when sitting at traffic lights and waiting to turn left. Cyclist will sometimes filter up the inside and then when you turn left ....... :-X
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: Raeturbo on 11 May 2022, 18:01:17
Have you checked the road markings? Double white lines near the junction for example? Perhaps.

            In which case they shouldn’t have been overtaking.
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: Andy B on 11 May 2022, 19:08:13
Have you checked the road markings? Double white lines near the junction for example? Perhaps.
I haven't got involved  ....  :)
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: Andy B on 11 May 2022, 19:10:34
It's a difficult one but, if I was forced to make a judgment, I would say the car pulling out of the side road should not proceed until they can see that the main road is clear.
It could have been a cyclist coming around the car and that would have been game shot and match.

Pretty much this.

People (usually girlies) often have their indicator flashing for hours after the have made a turn.

......

But it wasn't the car turning that was the problem .... it was the car that overtook it  ;)
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 11 May 2022, 19:20:39
It's a difficult one but, if I was forced to make a judgment, I would say the car pulling out of the side road should not proceed until they can see that the main road is clear.
It could have been a cyclist coming around the car and that would have been game shot and match.

Pretty much this.

People (usually girlies) often have their indicator flashing for hours after the have made a turn.

......

But it wasn't the car turning that was the problem .... it was the car that overtook it  ;)
Technically it was, although overtaking it was also retarded.
Title: Re: whose fault?
Post by: Rangie on 11 May 2022, 20:54:39
'you' are turning right onto a main road from a side road.
A car on the main road coming towards you on your right is indicating left to turn left into the road you're tuning out of.
You move forward to make your right turn ..... meanwhile
the car behind the car tuning left overtakes said car & broadside you.

Genuine question ..... who's to blame? You? Or the overtaking car?

Asking for a friend!  ::) (honestly not me but my young nephew)



Personally I'd tell him to wait till he gets a call from  India asking him about the accident & let them sort it 😅