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[Doctor Gollum]

Basically, the offending item gets unplugged if plugged in, smothered using a BCF fire extinguisher, and them put into a toilet bin or galley canister and flooded with water to cool it somewhat.

It then gets popped into a toilet and monitored for the rest of the flight. Toilet compartments being largely fireproof and fitted with a smoke detector.

Any hold fire is suppressed by the hold fire systems, and immediately diverted, followed by a potential evacuation.

So that's that

[TheBoy]

And what if it's the Dreamliner's own batteries.....

(Though I believe Boeing have mostly overcome that now).


As a pleb passenger, I have noticed the inconsistencies of airlines when it comes to lithium batteries.  Obviously, many electronics devices like phones, tablets, laptops, watches, electric razors, cordless hair straighteners and so on are lithium...   ...but do owners know?

Also, airlines seem to be inconsistent in the maximum capacity battery they allow - some being 100kWhr, some being 150, some not even stating it.

Some will allow any size if its an appliance. ie, I'm not allowed to take a >100kWhr battery on a plane, but if I wire an LED up to it so it becomes a torch, I can.

[Doctor Gollum]

And what if it's the Dreamliner's own batteries.....

(Though I believe Boeing have mostly overcome that now).


As a pleb passenger, I have noticed the inconsistencies of airlines when it comes to lithium batteries.  Obviously, many electronics devices like phones, tablets, laptops, watches, electric razors, cordless hair straighteners and so on are lithium...   ...but do owners know?

Also, airlines seem to be inconsistent in the maximum capacity battery they allow - some being 100kWhr, some being 150, some not even stating it.

Some will allow any size if its an appliance. ie, I'm not allowed to take a >100kWhr battery on a plane, but if I wire an LED up to it so it becomes a torch, I can.

The above is purely what you do for a Portable Electronic Device issue. In the cabin.

What happens under the floor is largely SEP...

ie Someone Else's Problem. Until the time comes to get off. 

[TheBoy]

But it would be nice if airlines banged their heads together an had some consistency, as more and more people will be taking larger and larger batteries on board...   ...and usually in cabin luggage, as thats what most airlines seem to (understandably) want.

[LC0112G]

I carry on a camera bag, containing 3 cameras each with their own 1800mAh battery, and typically 6 spare batteries. They're nominally 7.2V. That's about 16Ah , or 120Kw of lithium waiting to go up in smoke. They're all in the same bag, so if one goes up it'll take the others with it shortly thereafter.

IATA says this : https://www.iata.org/contentassets/6fea26dd84d24b26a7a1fd5788561d6e/passenger-lithium-battery.pdf

Looks like IATA allows you to carry up to 20 separate batteries in hand luggage.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Does anyone know what has come of investigations into the cargo manifest of missing airliner MH370 which apparently included 200 units of lithium ion batteries, as a 'consolidated consignment' weighing a total of 2453kg, which MAY have contributed to whatever overcame the passengers and crew?

In yet another recent documentry, this factor in the mix of possible answers was repeated by an avaition 'expert'.

[Doctor Gollum]

I still suspect that aircraft was landed in Diego Garcia and scrapped shortly after.

[Doctor Gollum]

I carry on a camera bag, containing 3 cameras each with their own 1800mAh battery, and typically 6 spare batteries. They're nominally 7.2V. That's about 16Ah , or 120Kw of lithium waiting to go up in smoke. They're all in the same bag, so if one goes up it'll take the others with it shortly thereafter.

IATA says this : https://www.iata.org/contentassets/6fea26dd84d24b26a7a1fd5788561d6e/passenger-lithium-battery.pdf

Looks like IATA allows you to carry up to 20 separate batteries in hand luggage.

Scroll down this for the FAA guidelines on mobility equipment on aircraft.

300w/h seems to be the top end.

[LC0112G]

Does anyone know what has come of investigations into the cargo manifest of missing airliner MH370 which apparently included 200 units of lithium ion batteries, as a 'consolidated consignment' weighing a total of 2453kg, which MAY have contributed to whatever overcame the passengers and crew?

In yet another recent documentry, this factor in the mix of possible answers was repeated by an avaition 'expert'.

Whilst no-one with any sense can say it's impossible, it is vanishingly unlikely.

The basic facts are No mayday call, no attempt to descend if lack of oxygen was becoming an issue, several changes of flight direction (but no change in flight level) so it flew along the boundaries of various countries airspace thus defeating normal civil radar control principles of who was in ATC control. Flight data (from satellites) lasting 8 hours.

What possible method is there for a plane to continue flying for 8 hours if the only 'fault' with it is that something in the hold is on fire? The plane will either disintegrate in the air leaving wreckage everywhere, or it'll depressurise (but stay together) due to a melted hole in the skin. If it depressurises at FL350, then everyone will be dead in a few minutes unless the plane descends to below FL150 quickly. It didn't.

Even if both flight deck crew somehow become incapacitated, there is a way for cabin crew to gain access to the (locked) cockpit. A cockpit crew, if conscious, can prevent cabin crew gaining access. If the passengers were aware of what was going on, one of them would have used a mobile phone to try and raise the alarm - just like on 9/11.

IMV one pilot and all the passengers & cabin crew were dead (from hypoxia) shortly after the non-existent hand over to Vietnam. One of the cockpit crew had been locked out by the other one. The remaining cockpit crew then flew the plane off into oblivion.

The only remaining questions are which pilot, and why.

[Doctor Gollum]

It would have crashed on course (perhaps not the planned one), and ended up over Pakistan or so...

Flight deck access is a non issue. Saying no more on that.

And the 777 has an oxygen ring main in addition to the drop down Hydrogen peroxide generators and portable oxygen.

In hold fire drills, the ditching time is 15 minutes... Land the aircraft whilst you can, regardless of where that is. Same for explosive decompression... which may or may not have been the result of said fire.

Also, from an engineering stand point as the cabin altitude climbs there are several things that would have happened as a result, including the cabin masks deploying. Some of which may be a direct result of the Helios incident.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Thanks LCO112G and DG for your detailed explanations, which certainly are creditable reasons why that cargo, if present, was not the cause of MH370’s strange disappearance.

I certainly have reached a judgement after watching the various documentaries that the pilot(s) are the prime suspects, but will we ever know?

[Doctor Gollum]

Certainly, if it had exploded at altitude, then there would literally be bits of it everywhere.

And the wings are effective until either air stops going over them or the separate. Either way, there would literally be bits everywhere.

Look at any airliner in recent history that was known to crash into the sea accidentally or otherwise, has left bits behind. Even the Air France Airbus that basically nose dived into the sea of Brazil left debris.

The pilot suicide on the Egypt Air 767 left whole chunks of aircraft behind.

The Egypt Air A320 that crashed in the Med... Same.

In fact the only way to completely disappear something the size of a 777 is to drive it into a tower block or dismantle it. And one of those would make the news.

Incidentally, I would probably avoid Egypt Air... 

And Air France for that matter...

[LC0112G]

I believe Air France actually tail dived into the oggin, but that's nit-pickey and yes agree on all the basic conclusions.

Except dismantling at Diego Garcia (or Guam or any similar place). Zero chance that happened IMV. Every govt and commercial satellite operator was looking for evidence of what happened within hours of it being reported missing, and places like those were (and are) well covered. None of those places have hangars large enough to hide a B777.

Look at GE for Diego Garcia. Those 4 hangars on the south end ramp are B-2 'peanut' hangars like the one at RAF Fairford. A B-2 is less than 70 feet long with a 172 feet span. A B777 is nearly 210 feet long with a similar wing span. No way is a B777 fitting into any of those hangars.

[LC0112G]

Oh - and - The "Miracle on the Hudson" did show it is possible to land a modern airliner (ok it was an A320 not a Boeing) on water and keep the aircraft basically in one piece. That airframe is now in a museum in Charlotte North Carolina.

If the plane basically "lands" in one piece on water, in the middle of the Indian ocean, then it'll sink in one piece and finding more than a few fragments that break off during the landing
will be verging on impossible. Sure some bits will break off during the landing, but then again, some bits have been found in Madagascar and the East coast of Africa.

[Doctor Gollum]

I believe Air France actually tail dived into the oggin, but that's nit-pickey and yes agree on all the basic conclusions.

Except dismantling at Diego Garcia (or Guam or any similar place). Zero chance that happened IMV. Every govt and commercial satellite operator was looking for evidence of what happened within hours of it being reported missing, and places like those were (and are) well covered. None of those places have hangars large enough to hide a B777.

Look at GE for Diego Garcia. Those 4 hangars on the south end ramp are B-2 'peanut' hangars like the one at RAF Fairford. A B-2 is less than 70 feet long with a 172 feet span. A B777 is nearly 210 feet long with a similar wing span. No way is a B777 fitting into any of those hangars.

Ignoring for a moment who owns the satellites