Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: 3.2 paisley wagon on 19 January 2011, 17:09:01
-
Hi all i am a newbie, been reading this forum for some time but never got round to registering until now. Need some advice on a problem i am having with my 3.2MV6 2002. Engine has developed a ticking noise which seems to be coming from behind the plenum/engine area. When 1st started most times no ticking. After a while at idle the ticking starts. It sometimes comes and goes but is only noticeable at idle. It used to be ok when cold then started when at running temp but i noticed today it done it at start up. I have also noticed a slight vibration in the engine although revs are fine. Started this morning cold and engine shuddered for a few seconds as if going to stall and then revs picked up. Any suggestions guys??
-
Pedal trick for codes, when's the belt due, when was oil last changed and how often?
Hopefully it's just a lifter and some wynns lifter treatment will sort it, but it could be a number of things tbh.
-
Hi, oil changed last 22/12/10 and before that Jan 2010. Using 5w30 and genuine vaux filter. Timing belt changed last year. before last oil change tried lifter treatment.
-
Have obd11, no present codes although in december got codes po420 and po430. reset and have not come back. Noticed a bit of oil around the oil pressure switch and have noticed a little flicker of oil light sometimes not always on start up.
-
AS Chrisgixer suggested get the codes anduse the vx oil 10W-40 :y
-
Hi, there are no current fault codes and 5w30 fully synthetic is what vauxhall recommend for my car.
-
P0420 catalyst system efficiency below threshold-(bank 1)
P0430 catalyst system efficiency below threshold (bank2)
Check to see if rubber covers on the plugs have not perished or an incursion of oil in the plug wells :y
-
sandune, would oil in the plug wells not cause misfire?
car is running ok with only a slight vibration.
-
Vx on their services use semi syth 10/40 oil so use that, fully syth a waste of hard earned and a bit too thin for my liking in this cold weather.
It could be the exhaust manifold gasket showing signs of failure, but try a change of oil and filter first and see if things improve. :y
-
oil and filter only changed 2 weeks ago
-
But with the wrong oil as afaik.
::)
-
Oil will be fine. Provided the mileage is sensible...?
Did the lifter treatment make any odds last time? Did it quieten things down? I take it this is a different noise to litters?
Shouldnt be the exhaust manifold as they changed the construction on later cars to stop them failing I believe.
Did find a loose spark plug on my old car once....?
-
car had a new engine fitted by dealer in 2004 and has only covered 41,000 miles. have been using 5w30 for over 2 years
-
Lifter treatment made no difference. Using mechanics stethascope seems to indicate something behind plenum at back of engine bay
-
If the oil specified is the dexos2 fully synthetic 5w30 that's ok. As is the 10w40 semi synth, which has shorter oil change intervals.
-
Plugs have not been changed since 2007 as vaux recommend 8yrs or 80,000 miles. Could a loose plug cause a ticking noise?
-
proper GM oil labelled as AC delco
-
Hmmm, I hate diagnosing noises through a key board.
Can you post a video with sound...? Needs a hands on really. Somethings not right obviously.
-
OK, take your car to the dealer and ask him to sort it out and dont be suprised at the bill you get, then if all else fails, take some of the advice from the members on here, who between us do have some knowledge on the v6 engines.
I have seen for myself vx mechanics reuse manifold gaskets when fitting replacment engines to cars, to which i commented on, the answers proberbly wont be of suprise to anyone.Do the easy cheap things yourself first then post back on here if no improvment.
-
can a leaky oil pressure switch cause any problems??
-
A loose plug could cause a ticking noise imo. It would sound similar to a slightly leaking exhaust gasket - gasses being forced out under pressure. might be worth spraying some carb cleaner around the vacuum connections in that area as well.
If you do this and notice a rise in revs, then you have pinpointed a vacuum leak. :-/
-
ffcgary1, i am asking here so i dont have to remortgage my house to pay my local rip off vaux dealer
-
Plugs have not been changed since 2007 as vaux recommend 8yrs or 80,000 miles. ......
but don't be surprised if they're goosed miles before 80 000 miles. I had them in my car & removed them when I was working on the cam covers, even they'd done nothing like 80k in about 4 years, they were well past their best. :y
-
would a vacum leak cause a tick and engine vibration. noticed when i lean my leg against the door panel when at idle i feel it smooth then a slight vibration from time to time coming and going. Rev counter steady though at just over 500rpm
-
As said, if it's had regular changes with GM 5w30 the oil is not an issue. Does the ticking noise stop when the engine speed is raised above idle or just become less noticeable? Worth having an assistant operate the throttle while you listen?
Could indeed be manifold gasket or a loose spark plug so worth checking these.
Might be worth having a garage put an oil pressure gauge on it and checking that the oil pressure is not decaying at idle. Could be a sticking pressure relief valve, perhaps?
It is indeed very difficult to diagnose dodgy noises remotely, though. :-/
Kevin
-
I thinbk the point Gary is making is that you dont need to go to the expense of fully synthetic oil. Semi synth 10-40 is fine in the v6 engine, but its advisable to change it a bit more often.
Its approx. a bit less than a tenner for 5 litres on trade club. ;)
I would add, its not always advisable to take notice of VX service intervals. They quote stupidly long intervals on some items to remain competitive with their rivals (who also do the same thing) and attract fleet buyers.
General opinion on here is oil/filter change at 4-5,000 miles and afaik plugs at a max. of 40,000.
And of course, cambelt/ tensioners at 40,000 or 4 years whichever is soonest.
-
ffcgary1, i am asking here so i dont have to remortgage my house to pay my local rip off vaux dealer
You need to visit a local member who has a bit of mechanical nouse. I'm guessing you're in/near Paisley, Glasgow. ;D ;D
-
no Northern Ireland
-
Albs i pay £18 for 6ltrs of 5w30 ac delco which is made by vauxhall
-
Albs i pay £18 for 6ltrs of 5w30 ac delco which is made by vauxhall
Assuming Vauxhall Trade Club operates in NI then it'd be about £43 for 20 litres of semi-skimmed :y
-
Thats not a bad price imo. :y......although not as cheap as 10/40 semi which is perfectly good for road use in a v6. :-/
-
was buying direct from vaux dealer until i got an ac delco branded 5ltr instead of the usual gm branded one. Then found my local motorfactor stocked it at £18. saving a lot on vaux dealers price
-
nothing but the best for my omega. lol
-
kevin, think ticking gets faster as revs go up but not sure as i have a viper induction kit and performance dual branch exhausts fitted. hard to hear when both of these are sounding as revs go up. Ticking not always there, coming and going. would leaky oil pressure switch be causing any problems?
-
OK, take your car to the dealer and ask him to sort it out and dont be suprised at the bill you get, then if all else fails, take some of the advice from the members on here, who between us do have some knowledge on the v6 engines.
I have seen for myself vx mechanics reuse manifold gaskets when fitting replacment engines to cars, to which i commented on, the answers proberbly wont be of suprise to anyone.Do the easy cheap things yourself first then post back on here if no improvment.
What brought this on? I can't see the OP saying he won't take advice. :y
-
proper GM oil labelled as AC delco
Had a look into it, that appears to be similar spec. But ac Delco is not approved GM oil. Afaict anyway. I think your dealer is pulling your pudding, ESP at those prices tbh. They appear to have sourced their own cheaper but similar spec oil. If so that's a bit cheaky.
But as suggested that's dealers for you.
I would change those plugs as well anyway, do some investigation along the way such as the obvious oil in plug wells, loose plugs will have soot around them as the gasses escape, some rough running is also possible, any water from the scuttle area giving rusty residue.
Odd ball one off thought is somebody posted an issue with a loose cam cap bolt,but I don't think that's likely tbh. It was noticed when changing cam cover seals, so if the seals need doing check for that as well.
Although it's low miles the cam seals also fail after time, did my 60k 03 a couple of weeks ago, and there was oil all round the sump and oil pressure switch where it had run down. Oil pressure switch is known to leak but also consider the far more likely cam cover seals asa likely cause, if so there a good chance there will be oil in the plug wells.
Sorry that's a poorly structured post but I'm watching mega factories. ;)
-
kevin, think ticking gets faster as revs go up but not sure as i have a viper induction kit and performance dual branch exhausts fitted. hard to hear when both of these are sounding as revs go up. Ticking not always there, coming and going. would leaky oil pressure switch be causing any problems?
Could the cat to manifold joint be leaking?
And if youmwant the best for your mig stick to the original intake set up. Nobodys improved on it yet, and are not likely too.
Is it an oiled air filter?
-
chrisgixer, I did research on ac delco before i bought. It is made at Vauxhall's state of the art factory in zaragonza, spain and also belgium
-
yes oiled filter and has been fitted for 4yrs with no probs
-
whats the best way to check the cat joint. I take it you mean the 2 bolt join above the pre cats?
-
chrisgixer, I did research on ac delco before i bought. It is made at Vauxhall's state of the art factory in zaragonza, spain and also belgium
I've no idea on the oil but as I've said many times before, Heinz make HP beans but they're not the same as Heinz Beanz ;)
-
good one andy but it does say on the 5ltr bottle General Motors Zaragonza, Spain. If you google it you will see thats were vauxhall make their oils
-
chrisgixer, I did research on ac delco before i bought. It is made at Vauxhall's state of the art factory in zaragonza, spain and also belgium
The gm listed fully synth 5w30 has been superseded by the dexos2 fully synth. So it's out of date by now afaik.
But the spec is the same as previous. But put it this way, I wouldn't use the Delco stuff tbh. Flickering oil light may well be a symptom, they can be fussy with a gunked up oil pick up. Have you used an engine flush? Please say no!
-
yes oiled filter and has been fitted for 4yrs with no probs
You risk oil on the maf, which will fleck it. Keep an eye on the fuel trims.
And keep the filter oil to a minimum if pos.
-
whats the best way to check the cat joint. I take it you mean the 2 bolt join above the pre cats?
Get it up on a ramp/jacked on stands and get someone to hold a rag blocking the exhaust exit while you listen for "futs" along the length of the system. Check ot right up to the manifold to block. If it's had a system fitted all that pulling around and leverage can stress the relevant joints.
-
chris if u type in www.acdelco.com/indexjsp and scroll to the bottom you will see the words General motors rights reserved 2010. I have been told this is exactly the same oil as the branded GM one from my local Vauxhall dealership. Thats why sometimes my local Vaux dealer have ac delco on the shelf
-
Just a thought, when i removed the oil filler cap and looked in at the cam shaft on idle i could see oil trickling over the cam shafts but not gushing around is that correct?
-
chris if u type in www.acdelco.com/indexjsp and scroll to the bottom you will see the words General motors rights reserved 2010. I have been told this is exactly the same oil as the branded GM one from my local Vauxhall dealership. Thats why sometimes my local Vaux dealer have ac delco on the shelf
What for? If your happy with it fine. "It's not my rather car" as they say in the trade. ;)
I use the GM listed stuff as it's on trade club and costs £36 for 20litres. Everbody's happy. :y
-
£1.80 a ltr thats very reasonable, you couldnt buy cooking oil for that
-
£1.80 a ltr thats very reasonable, you couldnt buy cooking oil for that
Maybe its only a grade above that ;D
But it does keep the condensation on the filler cap to a minimum as well. The mark up on oil is outrageous.
The same dexos2 mentioned earlier is about £60 for a 20 litter drum on tc. Same oil product at a BMW dealer is £180 retail !!!! Because it's BMW. But they only sell it to people with pink shirts with white collar and cuffs. You know the type. ;D
-
think i will start with new plugs. i have just bought an oil pressure gauge to fit at the weekend. It is rated from 1-7bar. Do you know what bar the oil pressure should be at idle and on acceleration??
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delco_Electronics
Delco Electronics Corporation was the automotive electronics design and manufacturing subsidiary of General Motors based in Kokomo, Indiana.
The name Delco came from the Dayton Engineering Laboratories Co., founded in Dayton, Ohio by Charles Kettering and Edward A. Deeds in 1909.[1] The "AC" often seen in front of the name are the initials of Albert Champion, a pioneer in the development of the spark plug. He made the change during his tenure at General Motors, after they took over Delco.
:-X
I am trying to find the official oil pressure specs. Unofficially, I would say 3 bar plus at speed dropping to 1bar plus at idle(when hot). If low pressure is the issue I'd expect quite a racket as all the lifters would start complaining. Not sure that would fit the description of a "tick" but as you have the gauge, may as well rule it out.
Kevin
-
update on ticking noise. Took car to garage today and put on four poster. Mechanic checked exhaust system and after a bit of head scratching commented there might be a slight leak at passenger exhaust manifold. Cant see any soot around it and to be honest i cant hear any blow out from that area. Po420 code and light appeared today after about 3 weeks of being off. Does the 3.2 (2002) have an EGR??
I ask this as my neighbour works for my local vauxhall garage and he suggested the gaskets can fail on them causing a ticking/clicking noise. If there is one where exactly is it and could this be the culprit
-
No EGR on 2.6/3.2. Read this about 0420
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1253462747
-
i my view the ticking noise is coming from the back of the engine and is most noticeable when i put my mechanics stethescope behind the plenum. What exactly is behind and below the rubber pipework feeding into the plenum?. Has anyone got any pics of the rear of a 3.2 engine?
-
Can't think of any other suggestions tbh. Unless it's in the head itself, there's no known issue that would cause a ticking in the area between bulkhead and engine.
Unless Kevins suggestion of pressure relief valve applies I can only assume there's something rattling around back there? Maybe from fitting the new engine.
No egr on the 3.2.
I suppose remove scuttle and run the engine? Unless it's lifter noise, which we have discounted, it will be an unusual cause I would think.
-
chris, whats the gold/brass coloured cylinder mounted horizontal behind the plenum? Put stethescope on it and could hear quite a large ticking from it. Not sure if its the culprit but would like to rule it out.
-
also similar loud tick from touching the fuel rail going to injectors!
-
That ain't standard, by the sound of it.
This is a 3.2 v6 omega engine right? Had it got LPG or something? Pre heater? What's it plumbed into? ... :-?
-
Had it got an updated fuel regulator?
-
its an ex NI Gov minister (MLA) car (special order like police i think)
-
Does anyone have pics or a diagram of the rear of 3.2 y32se engine. need to check against what i have got to see whats standard behind there and whats not
-
Not of the 3.2 afaik. Suggest posting a pic of what you have there....?
-
chris, whats the gold/brass coloured cylinder mounted horizontal behind the plenum? Put stethescope on it and could hear quite a large ticking from it. Not sure if its the culprit but would like to rule it out.
Sounds like the fuel pressure regulator to me. That will sound clicky to a stethoscope because it's probably acoustically coupled to the fuel injectors by the fuel rail. Nothing to worry about, IMHO.
Also, exhaust manifold gaskets are better on the 2.6 and 3.2 and rarely cause a problem. No EGR system on these either.
Kevin
-
Took car to my local Vauxhall garage today and got the workshop foreman to have a listen. He was very helpful and give me reassurance my fault was not serious but more annoying. He advised the ticking is not lifters and not an air leak. Thinks it may be one of two things. he rekons its either an exhaust manifold gasket leak although he couldnt source the sound to any of the two manifolds or what he described as a small solenoid on one of the air pipes going to the charcoal canister. He advised he has replaced this solenoid before on v6 vectra's which were making a ticking noise off and on.
Has anyone ever had this solenoid problem before and where exactly is it?
-
Took car to my local Vauxhall garage today and got the workshop foreman to have a listen. He was very helpful and give me reassurance my fault was not serious but more annoying. He advised the ticking is not lifters and not an air leak. Thinks it may be one of two things. he rekons its either an exhaust manifold gasket leak although he couldnt source the sound to any of the two manifolds or what he described as a small solenoid on one of the air pipes going to the charcoal canister. He advised he has replaced this solenoid before on v6 vectra's which were making a ticking noise off and on.
Has anyone ever had this solenoid problem before and where exactly is it?
Does he mean the "purge valve" fixed to the engine breather can at the back of the driver-side cylinder head. - the one with the red connector (2 wire) :question
-
Yes and now that i think of it i had the same problem a few years ago with a saab doing exactly the same thing. Is this a known problem for omega's?
-
i can see the pipe coming out of the drivers wing but i thought it went straight to the plenum. Maybe i am mistaken. Can this purge valve be seen from the drivers side?
-
Easy way to check, disconnect it from the back of the black breather cover on the top of the plenum (It's the larger of the two pipes in the centre of the four pipes that attach here) and see if the noise goes away. You may need to cover the outlet on the breather cover with your finger :y
-
I will check that tomorrow as my wife is out in it. I know the foreman today was removing those pipes. He did comment when he reconnected a certain pipe (not sure which one) that the noise was worse. He said when the noise got worse over time it would be easier diagnosed. I would like to get it sorted in advance if possible. Is this purge valve easy got at or is it a stripping job? If it is the purge valve will removing the pipe be enough to stop the ticking noise. Surely the solenoid within will still run unless wiring plug is removed. Please advise?
-
as said before the ticking noise seems to be coming from behind the plenum at the back of engine bay. Think thats whats so confusing as the ticking seems to echo in the space behind engine. Think thats why the foreman could not pinpoint the affending problem. Is quite noticeable inside car at idle with windows up
-
could also be the start of a cracked manifold which i suspect mine has does it get better when warm?
-
this noise is coming and going and doesnt seem to have any pattern. sometimes its worse on start up and other times its better on start up and then comes when warm. Foreman did state mine could be a manifold crack or gasket too.
-
Easy way to check, disconnect it from the back of the black breather cover on the top of the plenum (It's the larger of the two pipes in the centre of the four pipes that attach here) and see if the noise goes away. You may need to cover the outlet on the breather cover with your finger :y
Do this tomorrow to establish whether it is the purge valve, if so then it`s just a simple replacement
-
ok will do