Topic: EMERGENCY HELP NEEDED PLEASE (Read 6555 times)

Nick · « **on:** 12 December 2006, 13:25:25 »

HELP ME PLEASE.

went to the car this morning, turned the key. No starting, tried and tried and tried but no firing.

remote lock and unlock and try again, just turns over.

then get out of the car and lock the doors with the key and then unlock. try ignition and just turns over but no firing.

walk in the house, telephone dad to ask him to come and look today.

walk to the car turn the key starts as normal.

drive to station and wife takes car home.

turn off car go to restart and just turns over and over again.

i have no spark at the spark pulgs

i replaced the ht leads about a year ago and they were perfect. checked them and they are fine.

Please help me the omega is the only car i have at the moment

Cheers Nick

nixoro · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 December 2006, 13:28:33 »

Sounds to me like a possible crank sensor failure or a sticking starter motor solenoid.

Has the Engine Management Light come on at any point maybe its worth reading the codes.

The paperclip test is in the guide section. see below

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1152601768

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 December 2006, 13:30:59 »

Crank sensor......if it was the starter motor then it wouldn't turn over.

Salty · « **Reply #3 on:** 12 December 2006, 13:32:02 »

don't think starter solenoid. Solenoid problems would mean no turning over or starter not engaging. Crank sensor is a possiblilty though.

Modify: Mark beat me to it

nixoro · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 December 2006, 13:33:20 »

Quote

Crank sensor......if it was the starter motor then it wouldn't turn over.

Fair enough just an Idea

Nick · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 December 2006, 13:35:17 »

would the crank shaft sensor stop the spark then, when the car started the engine management light went out as normal.

nixoro · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 December 2006, 14:02:57 »

Quote

would the crank shaft sensor stop the spark then, when the car started the engine management light went out as normal.

Crank sensor from what I have read in the past has been intermittent the best way is to run the paperclip test just in case any codes are present then go from there.

bob.dent · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 December 2006, 17:19:45 »

Quote

would the crank shaft sensor stop the spark then, when the car started the engine management light went out as normal.

Hi Nick, I'm no expert but I've had crank case sensor pack up on mine and symptoms are exactly the same. Sometimes engine used to turn over without firing, try again later and starts ok. Try push or tow starting it (if it's a manual) and chances are you'll find it'll fire up easily. Shouldn't be too costly to get the sensor replaced.

TheBoy · « **Reply #8 on:** 12 December 2006, 18:47:18 »

My initial reaction is crank sensor. Do the paperclip test to see what ECU thinks is wrong...

sir moanalot · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 December 2006, 18:53:54 »

did in read on here somewhere that (because of a starting problem) if you disconnect the crank sensor at the elec connection it will then start the car but be in limp mode? if so it may be a way to confirm the c/s is at fault? and also do the paperclip test to double check!! :-/

TheBoy · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 December 2006, 19:01:31 »

Most of these cars won't run at all without crank sensor. 2.2 petrol seems to be the exception...

Taxi_Driver · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 December 2006, 20:34:28 »

Quote

Most of these cars won't run at all without crank sensor. 2.2 petrol seems to be the exception...

Agree with TB....2.0/2.5/3.0 wont start with the crank sensor disconnected......however a 2.2 definately will....anyone with a 2.6/3.2 upto disconnecting the crank sensor to see if it will start? To prove if its only a 2.2 will start without a crank sensor? It might take upto about 5 secs of cranking to start tho.....

JasonH · « **Reply #12 on:** 12 December 2006, 21:19:10 »

You've described the exact symptoms I had... and it was the crank sensor.

£50 for the sensor and 30mins to fix (as long as you can find the plug, it's a bit fiddly to get at). It may take longer if for example the wiper arms won't come off.

Markjay · « **Reply #13 on:** 13 December 2006, 00:24:30 »

According to my sources (well I looked it up on the Internet...) the Crank Sensor for the 3.0L was different than that of the 2.5L, but it is the same one later used on both the 2.6L and 3.2L.

Crank Sensor 2.6/3.0/3.2 Vx P/N 90540743:

Crank Sensor 2.5 Vx P/N 90492006:

Though strangely they both look the same....

tunnie · « **Reply #14 on:** 13 December 2006, 00:32:46 »

Quote

Most of these cars won't run at all without crank sensor. 2.2 petrol seems to be the exception...

I really must change mine!

JamesV6CDX · « **Reply #15 on:** 13 December 2006, 04:50:48 »

I wouldn't have thought any car COULD run without crank sensor - if the ECU etc doens't know where the pistons are and when to provide the spark, surely it won't go! I may stand corrected....

rpont · « **Reply #16 on:** 13 December 2006, 11:56:22 »

Once it's seen a couple of pulses from the cam sensor it can have an educated guess at where the crank is and what speed the engine is rotating but it does need both to really know how the timing is set.

Nick · « **Reply #17 on:** 13 December 2006, 15:28:57 »

HI THERE EVERYONE, COULD YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHERE THE CRANKSHAFT SENSOR IS ON THE ENGINE.

CHEERS NICK

Markjay · « **Reply #18 on:** 13 December 2006, 16:02:40 »

Quote

HI THERE EVERYONE, COULD YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHERE THE CRANKSHAFT SENSOR IS ON THE ENGINE.

CHEERS NICK

On both sides of the engine block, the passenger one is very near the oil filter, the driver's side is in the opossite postion.

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 December 2006, 16:45:31 »

Quote

Quote
HI THERE EVERYONE, COULD YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHERE THE CRANKSHAFT SENSOR IS ON THE ENGINE.

CHEERS NICK

On both sides of the engine block, the passenger one is very near the oil filter, the driver's side is in the opossite postion.

You are kidding, there the knock sensors!

Its on the passenger side just behind the oil filter.

mar892ree · « **Reply #20 on:** 13 December 2006, 17:07:01 »

Mines been playing up for a while, but different syptoms !

Sometimes car will crank a few times before firing, but little engine electrics light comes on !
Turn car off, re sart and its fine !
Car will always start, and even exceed 3000rpm, with light on , so from what i have been told the car isnt in limp mode !

This fault only occurs at random intervals, as i'm not in a hurry to replace the crank sensor, after Taxi Drivers description of its removal etc ! on a 2.2

bexandpower · « **Reply #21 on:** 13 December 2006, 17:57:42 »

Yeah my initial thought would also be crank sensor had the same problem myself strangely enough on a '94 3.0L v6. From what i remember the crank sensor is near the oil filter and not hard to replace i think there is a how 2 somewhere. From memory the sensor was about £40 from VSC. After it was replaced i havn't had any problems with the car starting. I got the sensor off fleebay nearly bought the worng one though!.

TheBoy · « **Reply #22 on:** 13 December 2006, 22:17:26 »

Quote

Quote
Most of these cars won't run at all without crank sensor. 2.2 petrol seems to be the exception...

I really must change mine!

Think yours was cam sensor iirc?

x25xe · « **Reply #23 on:** 13 December 2006, 22:40:55 »

Quote

would the crank shaft sensor stop the spark then, when the car started the engine management light went out as normal.

Yes, because it is this that "tells" the ecu that the engine is turning. The Ecu then uses this information, couple with the cam sensor, to fire the plugs at teh correct moment.

Omega-MV6 · « **Reply #24 on:** 14 December 2006, 08:55:55 »

Quote

I wouldn't have thought any car COULD run without crank sensor - if the ECU etc doens't know where the pistons are and when to provide the spark, surely it won't go! I may stand corrected....

Yeah, it's called a distributer and rotor arm....

Though no meeg'a I know off have them, well I think I saw an 8v once with one, but that may have been an Astra... I really can't remember...
My EFI V8 had one, a distributer that is, and a Rotor Arm...with plug and leads that required only one tool too.... but it only pushed out 134BHP....

I'd place my bet on the C/S though....

Cheers.

Matt

Omega-MV6 · « **Reply #25 on:** 14 December 2006, 09:01:00 »

Quote

Quote
Quote
HI THERE EVERYONE, COULD YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHERE THE CRANKSHAFT SENSOR IS ON THE ENGINE.

CHEERS NICK

On both sides of the engine block, the passenger one is very near the oil filter, the driver's side is in the opossite postion.

You are kidding, there the knock sensors!

Its on the passenger side just behind the oil filter.

OK, well that turned my knowledge of the V6 Upside down.. i thought it was, the one at the bottom of the block, at the front, below the lower pulley... :-?
What is that one then - I assumed it was there, as it's near the CRANK, not the CAM.....

Cheers.

Matt

Markjay · « **Reply #26 on:** 14 December 2006, 09:47:46 »

Quote

Quote
Quote
HI THERE EVERYONE, COULD YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHERE THE CRANKSHAFT SENSOR IS ON THE ENGINE.

CHEERS NICK

On both sides of the engine block, the passenger one is very near the oil filter, the driver's side is in the opossite postion.

You are kidding, there the knock sensors!

Its on the passenger side just behind the oil filter.

I misread...

Markjay · « **Reply #27 on:** 14 December 2006, 10:20:31 »

Correction (from JSeaman):

Thanks Mark!

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #28 on:** 14 December 2006, 10:57:44 »

Blimey, no chances of that engine block rusting.

Andy B · « **Reply #29 on:** 14 December 2006, 11:22:52 »

Quote

Blimey, no chances of that engine block rusting.

Total waste oil system! Saves changing the oil on a timed interval.

rpont · « **Reply #30 on:** 14 December 2006, 12:32:48 »

Quote

OK, well that turned my knowledge of the V6 Upside down.. i thought it was, the one at the bottom of the block, at the front, below the lower pulley... :-?
What is that one then - I assumed it was there, as it's near the CRANK, not the CAM.....

Cheers.

Matt

The one with the wire coming out towards the front? That's the oil pressure switch.

Omega-MV6 · « **Reply #31 on:** 14 December 2006, 13:32:44 »

Thankyou.. that answered my question nicely...

Cheers.

Matt.

PS: Cool Smilies...

mar892ree · « **Reply #32 on:** 14 December 2006, 16:43:26 »

Quote

Mines been playing up for a while, but different syptoms !

Sometimes car will crank a few times before firing, but little engine electrics light comes on !
Turn car off, re sart and its fine !
Car will always start, and even exceed 3000rpm, with light on , so from what i have been told the car isnt in limp mode !

This fault only occurs at random intervals, as i'm not in a hurry to replace the crank sensor, after Taxi Drivers description of its removal etc ! on a 2.2

So woulld anyone like to diagnose these sypmtoms on my 2.2 ! I was told before it might be crank sensor too, but the symptoms are slightly different !

Mark

sounds2k · « **Reply #33 on:** 14 December 2006, 16:57:41 »

Quote

According to my sources (well I looked it up on the Internet...) the Crank Sensor for the 3.0L was different than that of the 2.5L, but it is the same one later used on both the 2.6L and 3.2L.

Crank Sensor 2.6/3.0/3.2 Vx P/N 90540743:

Crank Sensor 2.5 Vx P/N 90492006:

Though strangely they both look the same....

the only (slight) difference I can spot is that the top one appears to have rounded corners on the plug whereas the lower one the edges are pretty much square. Not a huge difference! Maybe the pin assignment is slightly different too

TheBoy · « **Reply #34 on:** 14 December 2006, 18:55:25 »

Quote

Quote
Mines been playing up for a while, but different syptoms !

Sometimes car will crank a few times before firing, but little engine electrics light comes on !
Turn car off, re sart and its fine !
Car will always start, and even exceed 3000rpm, with light on , so from what i have been told the car isnt in limp mode !

This fault only occurs at random intervals, as i'm not in a hurry to replace the crank sensor, after Taxi Drivers description of its removal etc ! on a 2.2

So woulld anyone like to diagnose these sypmtoms on my 2.2 ! I was told before it might be crank sensor too, but the symptoms are slightly different !

Mark

If you are getting EML on, you should be able to get the codes read, which would be a real clue

mar892ree · « **Reply #35 on:** 14 December 2006, 21:10:16 »

I know Jamie !

Just that i'm such a lazy git , erghhhhhh mean i'm so busy, i havent managed to get time to come over to you as you live soooooooooo far away in Brackly LLOLL

Perhaps after Xmas then !

I was toying with the idea of having Cruise fitted too, kill two birds with one stone as it were !

Which stalk am i looking for off of EBay !! Left or right as i am sure i have seen both with exta buttons !

Also as i have a face lift i presume i have to have a stalk ( which ever one ) taken from a face lift donor car !!
Mark

TheBoy · « **Reply #36 on:** 14 December 2006, 22:01:08 »

Quote

I know Jamie !

Just that i'm such a lazy git , erghhhhhh mean i'm so busy, i havent managed to get time to come over to you as you live soooooooooo far away in Brackly LLOLL

Perhaps after Xmas then !

I was toying with the idea of having Cruise fitted too, kill two birds with one stone as it were !

Which stalk am i looking for off of EBay !! Left or right as i am sure i have seen both with exta buttons !

Also as i have a face lift i presume i have to have a stalk ( which ever one ) taken from a face lift donor car !!
Mark

Stalk, I would buy new, around £30 +VAT. If you get 2nd hand, ensure its the 4 wire one, not the 2 wire one for 2.5TD

mar892ree · « **Reply #37 on:** 14 December 2006, 22:23:23 »

Cheers Jamie, will do ( buy new) as i now have my trade account sorted !

Can you please explain ( in idiots english) as to how i can spot if i have the brake/clutch switch fitted on my car, what am i looking for ( if indeed its already fitted )

Cheers

Mark

TheBoy · « **Reply #38 on:** 14 December 2006, 22:25:43 »

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Cheers Jamie, will do ( buy new) as i now have my trade account sorted !

Can you please explain ( in idiots english) as to how i can spot if i have the brake/clutch switch fitted on my car, what am i looking for ( if indeed its already fitted )

Cheers

Mark

If its an auto, it will have right switches on your facelift 2.2. If its an auto, you'll need to look - you'll see the brake switch, clutch should have a similar switch which clips into the metalwork around it...

mar892ree · « **Reply #39 on:** 14 December 2006, 22:30:52 »

Being a manual, your saying if there fitted the swicths will be obvious !
How far up the pedal will they be, above that silly foam filled panel i suppose !!!

TheBoy · « **Reply #40 on:** 15 December 2006, 14:59:49 »

yes, remove the card/foam panel. Look up and you will see brake one just below where pedal pivots.

hotel21 · « **Reply #41 on:** 15 December 2006, 16:36:09 »

This is what you should see under the foam sheet when its removed.

Heres the 4 pin brake switch in position

and the clutch switch.

Hope this helps

B

Markjay · « **Reply #42 on:** 15 December 2006, 17:49:25 »

Quote

This is what you should see under the foam sheet when its removed.

Heres the 4 pin brake switch in position

and the clutch switch.

Hope this helps

B

TD note, I have a competitor picture poster....

Nice pics Hotel21

mar892ree · « **Reply #43 on:** 15 December 2006, 22:54:22 »

perfect thanks for the pics

Nick · « **Reply #44 on:** 16 December 2006, 08:14:57 »

so to clarify, the crank shaft sensor is next to the oil filter

cheers nick

hotel21 · « **Reply #45 on:** 16 December 2006, 12:32:30 »

Quote

Quote
Quote
HI THERE EVERYONE, COULD YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHERE THE CRANKSHAFT SENSOR IS ON THE ENGINE.

CHEERS NICK

On both sides of the engine block, the passenger one is very near the oil filter, the driver's side is in the opossite postion.

You are kidding, there the knock sensors!

Its on the passenger side just behind the oil filter.

hotel21 · « **Reply #46 on:** 16 December 2006, 12:34:27 »

Quote

so to clarify, the crank shaft sensor is next to the oil filter

cheers nick

Quoting MarksDTM

Its on the passenger side just behind the oil filter.

TheBoy · « **Reply #47 on:** 17 December 2006, 10:18:33 »

Confirmation - v6 crank sensor is right by oil filter, you can't miss it if you look at oil filter, held in with a single torx...

Nick · « **Reply #48 on:** 18 December 2006, 09:32:55 »

i removed the old crankshaft sensor on saturday and it was knackered and what a pain to remove.

the cable goes roud the top of the exhaust and then it was jammed between the heat shield and the bulkhead of the car.

in the end i cut the sensor off the end and just pull the cable out.

Cheers for your help

Nick

Markjay · « **Reply #49 on:** 18 December 2006, 14:26:25 »

Quote

...in the end i cut the sensor off the end and just pull the cable out.

...apparently that's what everyone does...

Bernard · « **Reply #50 on:** 18 December 2006, 20:49:51 »

Quote

did in read on here somewhere that (because of a starting problem) if you disconnect the crank sensor at the elec connection it will then start the car but be in limp mode? if so it may be a way to confirm the c/s is at fault? and also do the paperclip test to double check!! :-/

Only if you disconnect the Knock Sensor are you able to drive in Limp Mode as it Retards the Ignition.

STMO123 · « **Reply #51 on:** 18 December 2006, 20:55:23 »

Quote

Quote
...in the end i cut the sensor off the end and just pull the cable out.

...apparently that's what everyone does...

Or justs leaves it dangling. I've read a few posts where people who've gone to change it and found another one just...dangling

TheBoy · « **Reply #52 on:** 18 December 2006, 21:34:20 »

Quote

Quote
did in read on here somewhere that (because of a starting problem) if you disconnect the crank sensor at the elec connection it will then start the car but be in limp mode? if so it may be a way to confirm the c/s is at fault? and also do the paperclip test to double check!! :-/

Only if you disconnect the Knock Sensor are you able to drive in Limp Mode as it Retards the Ignition.

Or the cam sensor, or the... ...just about any sensor except crank

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Author Topic: EMERGENCY HELP NEEDED PLEASE (Read 6555 times)

Taxi_Driver

STMO123