Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[car5car]

1. Rear timing  belt (is it called cam belt in Europe?) cover in my 01 Cadillac Catera 3.0 has marks, so there is no reason (?) to use belt gauge to check position of cam sprockets.
2. Manual says to check timing belt tension. Why do I need to check belt tension, if tensioner has marks showing right tension?
3. How do hold cam sprockets w/o special tool?

[Andy B]

1. Rear timing  belt (is it called cam belt in Europe?) cover in my 01 Cadillac Catera 3.0 has marks, so there is no reason (?) to use belt gauge to check position of cam sprockets.

You do have timing marks, but as you're able to alter the relative timing between each pair of cams & the timing between them & the crank, it's just a 'best guess' if you don't use a cam locking kit.  The lads that have done loads of cam belt changes have often found them to be a tooth or two out, presumably done without a cam lock kit

2. Manual says to check timing belt tension. Why do I need to check belt tension, if tensioner has marks showing right tension?

You don't

3. How do hold cam sprockets w/o special tool?

With great difficulty   

[TheBoy]

On the 54 degree GM V6, it is absolutely essential to use the correct locking and timing kit. It is not possible to do without.

[car5car]

Are rear cover marks made in wrong places? It seems like the only possible explanation for using cam gauge.
I used rope, wire and plastic ties to hold right (English driver side) head cam sprockets.
Left head (american driver side) cam sprockets are stable in right position

[car5car]

On the 54 degree GM V6, it is absolutely essential to use the correct locking and timing kit. It is not possible to do without.

Which engines are you talking about? Omega/Catera engines are German engines. Cateras are manufactured in Germany and have VIN beginning with "W"

[dbug]

If you have a V6 engine you do need the correct locking kit otherwise you won't be able to set timing correctly.  Remember if you get it wrong engine damage will result (bent valves!)

[feeutfo]

I don't agree with TheBoy personally. It IS "possible" to change the timing belt without the locking kit.

However, it absolutely is NOT possible to do it accurately.

You won't know this, as you don't have a locking kit. And can't possibly know how much easier and more accurate it is until you do have a locking kit.


When you get a locking kit, only then will you know.


Trust us, get a locking kit.

[feeutfo]

I don't agree with TheBoy personally. It IS "possible" to change the timing belt without the locking kit.

However, it absolutely is NOT possible to do it accurately.

You won't know this, as you don't have a locking kit. And can't possibly know how much easier and more accurate it is until you do have a locking kit.


When you get a locking kit, only then will you know.


Trust us, get a locking kit.

Ps, did I mention... GET A LOCKING KIT.

[Lazydocker]

Changing without the correct locking kit is pot luck... A best guess

At best, if the timing isn't spot on, it will be a little down on power and economy. Worst case, bent valves

It's worth the money for a locking kit IMHO... Even just a best case of the timing being out giving poor economy you could save almost as much as the cost of the locking kit over the 40k miles between changes

[Andy B]

I don't agree with TheBoy personally. It IS "possible" to change the timing belt without the locking kit. ....

  You're brave ....... I didn't think anyone was brave enough to say that out loud!

I actually agree with you ...... plenty of V6s have had their cam belts changed without a locking kit. 

[Andy B]

... Worst case, bent valves
 ......

Considering the number of times that a fitted belt has been found to be a tooth or two out, I think you'd have to be really kack handed to fit a belt that far out that it'd bend valves.

[feeutfo]

I don't agree with TheBoy personally. It IS "possible" to change the timing belt without the locking kit. ....

  You're brave ....... I didn't think anyone was brave enough to say that out loud!

I actually agree with you ...... plenty of V6s have had their cam belts changed without a locking kit. 

....Including the first time I did my 2.5cdx. In my pre forum days, because I didn't know any better.

It's quite difficult to do without the kit, hence the op's questions.
 Then the next time your prepared, and wish to god you'd used a kit, as its SOOOOO much easier. And quicker. Not to mention, about a million times more accurate.

[Entwood]

I think everyone is taking TB's "not possible" way too literally .... of course it is "possible" to do the job without the kit .. it is even "possible" to get it 100% accurate without the kit... however ...

The chances of doing so, and the ease of doing the job are both greatly increased by using the correct tools.

It is probably "possible" to do most of the jobs on any car with 3 pairs of molegrips, 2 hammers and a power drill with assorted bits ..... but would you allow any one to do so

[feeutfo]

1. Rear timing  belt (is it called cam belt in Europe?) cover in my 01 Cadillac Catera 3.0 has marks, so there is no reason (?) to use belt gauge to check position of cam sprockets.
2. Manual says to check timing belt tension. Why do I need to check belt tension, if tensioner has marks showing right tension?
3. How do hold cam sprockets w/o special tool?

I would also add, that even if your belt had timing marks, they are fairly useless anyway, because each bank of cams are adjusted as a pair, via the eccentric adjusters on the corresponding idler. So the cam wheel marks can be on the belt marks, but the cam wheel timing can still be way off. Hence the gauge in the kit.

It's not a case of simply getting the teeth to line up, like on most cam belts. You have to adjust the cam timing on cams 3 and 4 (to within fractions of a millimetre) then once correct, only then can you do cams 1 and 2. Hence the )( shaped gauge to check it, a cam locks to stop the cams spinning out, and the crank lock to guarantee crank position.

Without the crank lock your pissing in the wind before you even start.

[Andy B]

I don't agree with TheBoy personally. It IS "possible" to change the timing belt without the locking kit. ....

  You're brave ....... I didn't think anyone was brave enough to say that out loud!

I actually agree with you ...... plenty of V6s have had their cam belts changed without a locking kit. 

....Including the first time I did my 2.5cdx. In my pre forum days, because I didn't know any better.

It's quite difficult to do without the kit, hence the op's questions.
 Then the next time your prepared, and wish to god you'd used a kit, as its SOOOOO much easier. And quicker. Not to mention, about a million times more accurate.

I've had a kit each time I've done mine .......