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[Andy B]

One law for us ..............           

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2304618/Police-officer-caused-outcry-testing-patrol-car-159mph-cleared-high-speed-crash.html

[Lizzie_Zoom]

He was driving at speed whilst in pursuit.

We either want our police to seriously try and catch criminals or answer 999 calls with the urgency required, or just doodle along and then being criticised for never catching anyone, let alone arriving when the public expect them to to give aid.

What do we want?

Sorry, but yet another Daily Mail bitch to make a story!

[albitz]

Not sure its within rules/guidelines to drive at 108mph in a 40mph zone even while in pursuit.Maybe some of our resident plodders could inform ?
His original claim to fame was nothing to do with pursuit though.He just took the new toy out to play at 159mph and still got off scot free.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Not sure its within rules/guidelines to drive at 108mph in a 40mph zone even while in pursuit.Maybe some of our resident plodders could inform ?
His original claim to fame was nothing to do with pursuit though.He just took the new toy out to play at 159mph and still got off scot free.

If they are classified as a "pursuit" qualified driver then they can engage in a fast pursuit, providing the control commander is happy with that after he/she receives all the details about the chase in progress and assesses the risk. If considered to be too much of a danger to the public, the chase is curtailed

[albitz]

Technicaly yes,but I would be surprised if permission was given to drive at 108mph in a 40 zone.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Technicaly yes,but I would be surprised if permission was given to drive at 108mph in a 40 zone.

Yes, it does happen in certain circumstances

[symes]

Technicaly yes,but I would be surprised if permission was given to drive at 108mph in a 40 zone.

Yes, it does happen in certain circumstances

only if  filth!! they do what they want and get away with it

[TheBoy]

Oh dear, another non story.

If we want a society where the police sue the victim for walking into an unlit area and tripping, or a police service who aren't allowed to chase criminals, we're going the right way.

We already have a police service that refused to turn up to an armed robbery that my bro had...  ...he was asked to call back once the criminals had gone, so they knew it was safe to come round.


Yeah, there are bad eggs in the police service, but FFS, lets not put more restrictions on them so they can't do their job to the best of their ability. And if that means flat out through a built up area, so be it...   ...I bet the criminals wouldn't slow down, and at least the old bill have blues and twos.

[the alarming man]

Technicaly yes,but I would be surprised if permission was given to drive at 108mph in a 40 zone.

Yes, it does happen in certain circumstances

i would be very supprised if they would sanction that speed...in my days of driving an IRV for l.a.s that speed would get you your P 45.....

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Technicaly yes,but I would be surprised if permission was given to drive at 108mph in a 40 zone.

Yes, it does happen in certain circumstances

only if  filth!! they do what they want and get away with it

That is offensive Symes, as the vast majority of officers are doing their very best to serve the public.  The "filth" to me are the criminals who ruin lives in their acts of greed and general evil.

[the alarming man]

Technicaly yes,but I would be surprised if permission was given to drive at 108mph in a 40 zone.

Yes, it does happen in certain circumstances

only if  filth!! they do what they want and get away with it

That is offensive Symes, as the vast majority of officers are doing their very best to serve the public.  The "filth" to me are the criminals who ruin lives in their acts of greed and general evil.

lizzie do a freedom of information request as too how many kent police vehicles get taken to court for speeding as a couple years ago out of 427,300 where deemed to be on the way to a 999 call fair enough you might say,out of the remainding 127 only 1 was given 3 points and a £ 60 fine..thats fair is it..??.. no....one rule for plod another for joe public..i can see where symes is coming from

[symes]

thats true I you get good and bad -but ones who bend/break rules for their own benefit are!!

[symes]

couple of years ago -got stopped in mig-spot check-anyway nothing wrong -all legal like--and while talking to PC man argues with woman -getting loud/abusive I looked so did PC-he got in car and left??- so who's wrong?? I would'nt be a copper for £millions-why spend ages catching criminals only courts to let them go again--our whole legal system sucks and to think not is delusional IMHO

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Technicaly yes,but I would be surprised if permission was given to drive at 108mph in a 40 zone.

Yes, it does happen in certain circumstances

only if  filth!! they do what they want and get away with it

That is offensive Symes, as the vast majority of officers are doing their very best to serve the public.  The "filth" to me are the criminals who ruin lives in their acts of greed and general evil.

lizzie do a freedom of information request as too how many kent police vehicles get taken to court for speeding as a couple years ago out of 427,300 where deemed to be on the way to a 999 call fair enough you might say,out of the remainding 127 only 1 was given 3 points and a £ 60 fine..thats fair is it..??.. no....one rule for plod another for joe public..i can see where symes is coming from

Over what period?  I have been with police patrols when numerous 999 calls have been answered by just the patrol I was with in one night.  All were genuine fast drives to the incident, and every speed camera flash if applicable had to be justified. Apart from that there are all types of event that results in a PC, if qualified, deciding to brake speed limits in the course of their duties that do not conform to a 999 call situation.

To repeat most officers are working hard to protect the public and serve the interests of the honest citizen.  In my experience, the people who call them "the filth" are actually of criminal intent and actions.

[symes]

no you have police officers and filththese are the ones who I am on about-shouldnt be in uniform-and I have Full CRB clearance-don't even drink -have just lost complete faith in our legal system does that make me a criminal?? if so then suppose I am.

[the alarming man]

Technicaly yes,but I would be surprised if permission was given to drive at 108mph in a 40 zone.

Yes, it does happen in certain circumstances

only if  filth!! they do what they want and get away with it

That is offensive Symes, as the vast majority of officers are doing their very best to serve the public.  The "filth" to me are the criminals who ruin lives in their acts of greed and general evil.

lizzie do a freedom of information request as too how many kent police vehicles get taken to court for speeding as a couple years ago out of 427,300 where deemed to be on the way to a 999 call fair enough you might say,out of the remainding 127 only 1 was given 3 points and a £ 60 fine..thats fair is it..??.. no....one rule for plod another for joe public..i can see where symes is coming from

Over what period?  I have been with police patrols when numerous 999 calls have been answered by just the patrol I was with in one night.  All were genuine fast drives to the incident, and every speed camera flash if applicable had to be justified. Apart from that there are all types of event that results in a PC, if qualified, deciding to brake speed limits in the course of their duties that do not conform to a 999 call situation.

To repeat most officers are working hard to protect the public and serve the interests of the honest citizen.  In my experience, the people who call them "the filth" are actually of criminal intent and actions.

no lizzie the p.c does not decide to break the speed limit the operational commander decides if the call dictates that is happening now and has done to my knowledge for the past 5 years in the whole of kent police,you will also find any patrol has to have a cad room ref to go onto bluelight as well...hence if caught speeding the cad number can be quoted..their trackers are set up so if a vehicle is on a blue light for no good reason it is flagged at the conrtrol and the officers will be invited in to explain themselves

[Andy B]

As OP ..... my opinion is that he's an arrogant idiot and by his speed in the 40 limit, he shows utter contempt for every other bugger on the road. We all do something daft at times behind the wheel, but Joe Bloggs would've had their licence ripped up in front of them no matter their skill behind the wheel. I wonder if 'Mark' would show any kind of leniency when he stops Joe Public doing a little over the limit ........ I doubt it. And Plod in general wonders why Joe Public shows them less & less support.




The fact that the link was to the Daily Mail is bugger all to do with it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-21958900
http://swns.com/news/police-officer-crashed-patrol-car-108mph-while-chasing-stolen-audi-33278/

[Crazycarzowner]

As an advanced response / pursuit driver myself, I may be able to shed some light on the criteria we use. On red ring speed limits we (just like the normal panda bobbies) are allowed the speed limit + 20mph on top ie. if it was a 40mph we CAN if its safe to do so do 60 mph. The only difference is on nationals where advance drivers can use speed (if safe to do so) above & beyond the +20mph.
In the event of a pursuit the are MORE rules to follow & only advanced drivers can pursue (Local beat bobbies can initially pursue until such time as advanced drivers join them OR the speed goes over their 20mph exemption. Then if an advanced car gets behind the target they HAVE to give all the pursuit criteria to the control room boss. ie. speed, road conditions, speed limit, time of day, any pedestrians, schools in the area, etc. etc.etc. and have to relate all that whilst driving giving none stop commentary. The control room boss has over-riding authority on whether the pursuit continues or not, BUT the onus is on the advanced driver to (for want of a better word) paint a picture of the scene & circs. If the pursuit  is authorised then the running commentary has to continue all through and the driver can use speed (if safe to do do) in excess of the limits. If either the control room boss thinks that the pursuit is too dangerous they can call it off, just as the officer on the ground can. If the officer doesn't give good commentary, again its called off. If the get away car does something outrageously, and we aren't allowed to follow (wrong way along the motorway), again its called off.

I'm not familiar with the case discussed, so don't know the circs, but I believe that it was his own force that reported him to the CPS who took the case up??? 108mph in a 40 seems a bit  to me really, but again full circs are not known.

At the end of the day it does boil down to the drivers training and I know there are good ones and bad. Black box technology is king now so if the wheel falls off, and something serious happens we can & should, (and have been) be held to account.

[Andy B]

Thanks Jason 

[Crazycarzowner]

I chased a stolen Audi last week down the M56, Bloody thing went contra up the slip to evade me!!! 

Called it off......................and a few more words not repeatable on here! 

[Andy B]

...........................and a few more words not repeatable on here! 

Mmmm?  I'm sure you could - they've probably already been used here a few times 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Technicaly yes,but I would be surprised if permission was given to drive at 108mph in a 40 zone.

Yes, it does happen in certain circumstances

only if  filth!! they do what they want and get away with it

That is offensive Symes, as the vast majority of officers are doing their very best to serve the public.  The "filth" to me are the criminals who ruin lives in their acts of greed and general evil.

lizzie do a freedom of information request as too how many kent police vehicles get taken to court for speeding as a couple years ago out of 427,300 where deemed to be on the way to a 999 call fair enough you might say,out of the remainding 127 only 1 was given 3 points and a £ 60 fine..thats fair is it..??.. no....one rule for plod another for joe public..i can see where symes is coming from

Over what period?  I have been with police patrols when numerous 999 calls have been answered by just the patrol I was with in one night.  All were genuine fast drives to the incident, and every speed camera flash if applicable had to be justified. Apart from that there are all types of event that results in a PC, if qualified, deciding to brake speed limits in the course of their duties that do not conform to a 999 call situation.

To repeat most officers are working hard to protect the public and serve the interests of the honest citizen.  In my experience, the people who call them "the filth" are actually of criminal intent and actions.

no lizzie the p.c does not decide to break the speed limit the operational commander decides if the call dictates that is happening now and has done to my knowledge for the past 5 years in the whole of kent police,you will also find any patrol has to have a cad room ref to go onto bluelight as well...hence if caught speeding the cad number can be quoted..their trackers are set up so if a vehicle is on a blue light for no good reason it is flagged at the conrtrol and the officers will be invited in to explain themselves

That is not my experience TAM of working with Kent Police, and it is only once the chase escalates to a full pursuit that only qualified, "A" pursuit drivers, can engage in that , but the PC  has to report the driving conditions and central command decides to continue or disengage on safety grounds. By that stage the "local standard" police trained driver has pulled out of the chase and the traffic pursuit drivers take on the engagement if approved. 

When answering regular graded 999 calls the officer, if of "standard" qualification, immediately goes to blues and two's with speed boosted to a level above speed limits, but with a responsibility to maintain maximum safety considerations, such as at traffic lights and pedestrian crossings, past schools, etc, whilst travelling at all due haste to the incident.

However, thanks Jason for explaining the situation from a current traffic officers view point and training

I must say though that so much of what you explain may be what is in "the book", but my experience out with Kent Police Officers trained to the "standard" level has been a different experience. Such as at 80 mph in 30 mph zone, but often during the early hours, to a 999 incident!  All safety guidelines have been adhered to when I have been "out there".

[Crazycarzowner]

Such as at 80 mph in 30 mph zone, but often during the early hours, to a 999 incident!

Hmmm!  All I can say to that is if the wheel falls off they'll have the book thrown at them. We get it drummed into us as advanced drivers what we can do in the red ring limits and it is being reiterated more & more due to minorities who break the rules. I get that it is responding to 999's BUT for one, as an old sgt said to me 'a dead cop is no use to anyone, so get there as quickly and most importantly as SAFELY as possible'. As I said before the little 'black box' in the car can pinpoint everything these days indicators, brakes, speed, distance, when blues & twos switched on & off. Won't be long before timings from job to job are scrutinized to see if excessive speed was used. Standard drivers doing that sort of speed, without the training 

[Andy B]

... Standard drivers doing that sort of speed, without the training 

Is that a 'standard' Plod or a 'standard' Joe Public     
 
80 in a 30 .... depends what kind of 30 mph road it is. I can think of a few 30mph roads around and about that it'd be quite possible to do 80 on .... obviously not legally   

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Such as at 80 mph in 30 mph zone, but often during the early hours, to a 999 incident!

Hmmm!  All I can say to that is if the wheel falls off they'll have the book thrown at them. We get it drummed into us as advanced drivers what we can do in the red ring limits and it is being reiterated more & more due to minorities who break the rules. I get that it is responding to 999's BUT for one, as an old sgt said to me 'a dead cop is no use to anyone, so get there as quickly and most importantly as SAFELY as possible'. As I said before the little 'black box' in the car can pinpoint everything these days indicators, brakes, speed, distance, when blues & twos switched on & off. Won't be long before timings from job to job are scrutinized to see if excessive speed was used. Standard drivers doing that sort of speed, without the training 

Yep, Jason I take your point!

I have had a close friend who was a traffic officer and I know his views on that subject, even before he was an "A" driver. 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

... Standard drivers doing that sort of speed, without the training 

Is that a 'standard' Plod or a 'standard' Joe Public    
 
80 in a 30 .... depends what kind of 30 mph road it is. I can think of a few 30mph roads around and about that it'd be quite possible to do 80 on .... obviously not legally   

They are, in Kent at least, officers trained above "Basic" level (the same as you and I as drivers and having to conform to normal driving regulations and not able to respond under blue's and two's) and are at a "Standard" level of training were they can respond with blue's and two's with exemptions to the basics of driving, such as speed limits, going through red lights, etc, but as stated before, FULL responsibility for other drivers safety at all times, with accountability under the law.

As Jason will no doubt state, "A", pursuit drivers, are trained to a level where they can engage in full pursuits with enhanced powers under traffic laws.