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[unlucky alf]

well ive just heard that nick griffin has been invited to go to copenhagen, im trying to work out what the ploy is there as his views on it are not what the powers that be want to hear. :-/ :-/

[Brick Tamland]

well ive just heard that nick griffin has been invited to go to copenhagen, im trying to work out what the ploy is there as his views on it are not what the powers that be want to hear. :-/ :-/

To give the nay sayers a bad name :-/ :-/

[Nickbat]

well ive just heard that nick griffin has been invited to go to copenhagen, im trying to work out what the ploy is there as his views on it are not what the powers that be want to hear. :-/ :-/

Yes, it's true. It's not surprising really. Much as I am against the BNP's general political stance, they (and UKIP) are the only parties who feel they are not shackled by the mainstream media's denial and are prepared to speak up. On this issue, alone, they are correct in their views.

Ironically, the Left's refusal to truly engage this issue will leave an open-goal for the extremist parties to gather strength. (I was going to say far-Right, but I see the BNP as far Left....sort of National Socialist if you get my drift  )

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/29/nick-griffin-bnp-copenhagen-summit

[Nickbat]

Mind you, while you have nutcases like this around, the extremists will always score points:


"Western lifestyle unsustainable, says climate expert Rajendra Pachauri"


"Hotel guests should have their electricity monitored; hefty aviation taxes should be introduced to deter people from flying; and iced water in restaurants should be curtailed, the world's leading climate scientist has told the Observer.

Rajendra Pachauri, the chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), warned that western society must undergo a radical value shift if the worst effects of climate change were to be avoided. A new value system of "sustainable consumption" was now urgently required, he said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/29/rajendra-pachauri-climate-warning-copenhagen

I should point out that Pachauri is NOT a scientist or, indeed, any kind of expert.

Observer LIES again. 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Mind you, while you have nutcases like this around, the extremists will always score points:


"Western lifestyle unsustainable, says climate expert Rajendra Pachauri"


"Hotel guests should have their electricity monitored; hefty aviation taxes should be introduced to deter people from flying; and iced water in restaurants should be curtailed, the world's leading climate scientist has told the Observer.

Rajendra Pachauri, the chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), warned that western society must undergo a radical value shift if the worst effects of climate change were to be avoided. A new value system of "sustainable consumption" was now urgently required, he said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/29/rajendra-pachauri-climate-warning-copenhagen

I should point out that Pachauri is NOT a scientist or, indeed, any kind of expert.

Observer LIES again. 

But Nick he IS a very academically and professionally qualified individual who can glean and understand factual and theoretical concepts:

http://www.climatescience.gov/Library/bios/pachauri.htm

Don't just try and discredit people because they put forward arguments that do not suit your particular beliefs

[STMO999]

Mind you, while you have nutcases like this around, the extremists will always score points:


"Western lifestyle unsustainable, says climate expert Rajendra Pachauri"


"Hotel guests should have their electricity monitored; hefty aviation taxes should be introduced to deter people from flying; and iced water in restaurants should be curtailed, the world's leading climate scientist has told the Observer.

Rajendra Pachauri, the chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), warned that western society must undergo a radical value shift if the worst effects of climate change were to be avoided. A new value system of "sustainable consumption" was now urgently required, he said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/29/rajendra-pachauri-climate-warning-copenhagen

I should point out that Pachauri is NOT a scientist or, indeed, any kind of expert.

Observer LIES again. 

One can agree with the sustainable consumption arguement without subscribing to the climate change theory. Resources are finite.

[Dishevelled Den]

Mind you, while you have nutcases like this around, the extremists will always score points:


"Western lifestyle unsustainable, says climate expert Rajendra Pachauri"


"Hotel guests should have their electricity monitored; hefty aviation taxes should be introduced to deter people from flying; and iced water in restaurants should be curtailed, the world's leading climate scientist has told the Observer.

Rajendra Pachauri, the chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), warned that western society must undergo a radical value shift if the worst effects of climate change were to be avoided. A new value system of "sustainable consumption" was now urgently required, he said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/29/rajendra-pachauri-climate-warning-copenhagen

I should point out that Pachauri is NOT a scientist or, indeed, any kind of expert.

Observer LIES again. 

But Nick he IS a very academically and professionally qualified individual who can glean and understand factual and theoretical concepts:
http://www.climatescience.gov/Library/bios/pachauri.htm

Don't just try and discredit people because they put forward arguments that do not suit your particular beliefs

...providing that the information he is assessing has a scientific and factual provenance of course Ms Z

Furthermore, many academics with whom I am acquainted would never present themselves as being expert in a field removed from their own discipline.

This reliance on the uttering of 'experts' is subjective to say the least and is notional, in terms of its efficacy, on the relative ignorance – or otherwise - of the audience to whom the message is being delivered.

[STMO999]

Mind you, while you have nutcases like this around, the extremists will always score points:


"Western lifestyle unsustainable, says climate expert Rajendra Pachauri"


"Hotel guests should have their electricity monitored; hefty aviation taxes should be introduced to deter people from flying; and iced water in restaurants should be curtailed, the world's leading climate scientist has told the Observer.

Rajendra Pachauri, the chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), warned that western society must undergo a radical value shift if the worst effects of climate change were to be avoided. A new value system of "sustainable consumption" was now urgently required, he said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/29/rajendra-pachauri-climate-warning-copenhagen

I should point out that Pachauri is NOT a scientist or, indeed, any kind of expert.

Observer LIES again. 

But Nick he IS a very academically and professionally qualified individual who can glean and understand factual and theoretical concepts:
http://www.climatescience.gov/Library/bios/pachauri.htm

Don't just try and discredit people because they put forward arguments that do not suit your particular beliefs

...providing that the information he is assessing has a scientific and factual provenance of course Ms Z

Furthermore, many academics with whom I am acquainted would never present themselves as being expert in a field removed from their own discipline.

This reliance on the uttering of 'experts' is subjective to say the least and is notional, in terms of its efficacy, on the relative ignorance – or otherwise - of the audience to whom the message is being delivered.

On this very subject Zulu: On newsnight on Friday, Paxo was asking the minister for energy how he appeared to be so well up on the construction of power stations when just two years ago he was in the education dept. The minister grinned like an idiot and insisted he knew all there was to know. Yeah.

[Dishevelled Den]

Mind you, while you have nutcases like this around, the extremists will always score points:


"Western lifestyle unsustainable, says climate expert Rajendra Pachauri"


"Hotel guests should have their electricity monitored; hefty aviation taxes should be introduced to deter people from flying; and iced water in restaurants should be curtailed, the world's leading climate scientist has told the Observer.

Rajendra Pachauri, the chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), warned that western society must undergo a radical value shift if the worst effects of climate change were to be avoided. A new value system of "sustainable consumption" was now urgently required, he said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/29/rajendra-pachauri-climate-warning-copenhagen

I should point out that Pachauri is NOT a scientist or, indeed, any kind of expert.

Observer LIES again. 

One can agree with the sustainable consumption arguement without subscribing to the climate change theory. Resources are finite.

I'm inclined to agree ST.

The waste of whatever remaining resources present, in my view, a much greater threat than alleged AGW,

[Dishevelled Den]

Mind you, while you have nutcases like this around, the extremists will always score points:


"Western lifestyle unsustainable, says climate expert Rajendra Pachauri"


"Hotel guests should have their electricity monitored; hefty aviation taxes should be introduced to deter people from flying; and iced water in restaurants should be curtailed, the world's leading climate scientist has told the Observer.

Rajendra Pachauri, the chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), warned that western society must undergo a radical value shift if the worst effects of climate change were to be avoided. A new value system of "sustainable consumption" was now urgently required, he said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/29/rajendra-pachauri-climate-warning-copenhagen

I should point out that Pachauri is NOT a scientist or, indeed, any kind of expert.

Observer LIES again. 

But Nick he IS a very academically and professionally qualified individual who can glean and understand factual and theoretical concepts:
http://www.climatescience.gov/Library/bios/pachauri.htm

Don't just try and discredit people because they put forward arguments that do not suit your particular beliefs

...providing that the information he is assessing has a scientific and factual provenance of course Ms Z

Furthermore, many academics with whom I am acquainted would never present themselves as being expert in a field removed from their own discipline.

This reliance on the uttering of 'experts' is subjective to say the least and is notional, in terms of its efficacy, on the relative ignorance – or otherwise - of the audience to whom the message is being delivered.

On this very subject Zulu: On newsnight on Friday, Paxo was asking the minister for energy how he appeared to be so well up on the construction of power stations when just two years ago he was in the education dept. The minister grinned like an idiot and insisted he knew all there was to know. Yeah.

This is the danger when individuals present themselves as being expert in a particular matter when plainly they're not.

We of course are expected to accept the consequenses of any decision made on foot of their assessment without questioning the validitity of the information these people use to form legislation - that can't be right.

[unlucky alf]

just found this,
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1231788/U-turn-climate-change-cover-university-says-publish-leaked-email-data.html

are these the figures that were apparently deleted?, & they have had plenty of time since the email scandal to "massage" these before issueing them.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I watched a very informative BBC2 investigation into President Obama's aims on cutting US emissions and his attendance at the Copenhagen Conference.  Watch it in full to get the full flavour of the situation!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00p69np/This_World_20092010_Can_Obama_Save_the_Planet/

Somehow I think the battle has only just started............!!!!!

 

Only availbale in the UK :-/ Can you give give me the gist of it

Basically it explains how much of the American population are unconvinced by the global warming argument, with major industry (coal in particular) joining them in not agreeing with Obama's aims and wanting to carry on as before.  It shows how Obama has one hell of a fight on to convince his fellow Americans that global warming is really a concern, let alone for them!  Copenhagen will produce very little if the US fail to contribute as their President wants, and politically he looks like losing this one!;)

The BBC at its worst. Towing the party line: good bloke Obama against naughty Big Coal.

Sorry, but this is pure propaganda, IMHO.

I'm surprised you rate it so much, Lizzie.

Did I say that Nick?!!!

No, I just presented the situation as it is, from a neutral propective neither on one side or the other!

This reaction is one reason why I don't often comment on this issue on the OOF as it seem you get castigated for expressing an opinion that is contary to some very entrenched beliefs on here as Banjax has found amongst others!!

Lighten up, and lets listen to ALL sides of a debate!

Nick, as you know I respect your views and personal detirmination on this subject, but you are in danger of over cooking this.  I certainly am not one to say "yes" to everything that is said just to please certain people, as history has proved that can be a highly dangerous stance to take!

I've spent ages and ages researching both sides of the debate and I have come to the conclusion that AGW is a scam. Job done, as far as I'm concerned.

If I was of the view that 2 + 2 is indisputably 4, why should I carry on listening to those who continue to claim the answer is 5? 

I believe that my views on global warming are well documented on this forum......that it is real and unimagined.....and caused by modern man.
...........but I also freely admit .......that I could be wrong.....
.....Nickbat......... you seem 100% convinced that you are right......this concerns me ......as it can lead to apathy......a "we can do anything to the environment attitude"....because we know that the whole thing is a scam......and idiots like bannjaxx and Optimist are simply too thick to understand.

I have NEVER EVER expressed such views. My concern is that, specifically, the theory of CO2-driven anthropogenic global warming is a scam.

I have said countless times that I am of the David Bellamy school of environmentalism. The trillions that have been spent on this farce could have been better directed at provided clean drinking water for the millions of kids that die unnecessarily each year from preventable water-borne diseases, and protecting and enhancing the planet's biosphere.

Sometimes you make me quite cross, for you attempt to tarnish me as an insensitive, money grabbing capitalist that cares not one hoot about the environment.

As usual, you are mistaken.      

Often .....and very cross.....is perhaps more factually accurate Nick....... .......but then ....that is because I tend to disagree with much of what you say...

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Mind you, while you have nutcases like this around, the extremists will always score points:


"Western lifestyle unsustainable, says climate expert Rajendra Pachauri"




.

Rajendra Pachauri, the chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), warned that western society must undergo a radical value shift if the worst effects of climate change were to be avoided. A new value system of "sustainable Pachaurt, the ch now urgently required, he said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/29/rajendra-pachauri-climate-warning-copenhagen

I should point out that Pachauri is NOT a scientist or, indeed, any kind of expert.

Observer LIES again. 

But Nick he IS a very academically and professionally qualified individual who can glean and understand factual and theoretNOT[/cepts:
http://www.climatescience.gov/Library/bios/pachauri.htm

Don't just try and discredit people because they put forward arguments that do not suit your particular beliefs

...providing that the information he is assessing has a scientific and factual provenance of course Ms Z

Furthermore, many academics with whom I am acquainted would never present themselves as being expert in a field removed from their own discipline.

This reliance on the uttering of 'experts' is subjective to say the least and is notional, in terms of its efficacy, on the relative ignorance – or otherwise - of the audience to whom the message is being delivered.

Have you fully read his history Zulu?  Does his experience, training, and association with many highly qualified individuals on the subject of the environment not count for anything?

There are times when individuals have to assess the facts accumulated over a period of time.  Pachauri has been part of this process since the 1980s, so sorry but I consider him and many others far more qualified to comment on this subject than anyone else on this Forum.

My position on this subject is one of a neutral interested (as everyone should be) party, continually assessing and just listening to the many varied arguments.  To cliam one 'side' or the other has all the answers on this very complicated issue and the other argument is talking rubbish bordering on a conspiracy against Western Liberal ideals is not only stupid but could well be disasterous.

So the polarization of one side of the argument that I have seen developing on here, with the 'rubbishing' of any conterary view, and the people expressing it, I consider most unhelpful and dare I say, arrogant in the extreme.

[Varche]

Mind you, while you have nutcases like this around, the extremists will always score points:


"Western lifestyle unsustainable, says climate expert Rajendra Pachauri"


"Hotel guests should have their electricity monitored; hefty aviation taxes should be introduced to deter people from flying; and iced water in restaurants should be curtailed, the world's leading climate scientist has told the Observer.

Rajendra Pachauri, the chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), warned that western society must undergo a radical value shift if the worst effects of climate change were to be avoided. A new value system of "sustainable consumption" was now urgently required, he said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/29/rajendra-pachauri-climate-warning-copenhagen

I should point out that Pachauri is NOT a scientist or, indeed, any kind of expert.

Observer LIES again. 

Western Lifestyle IS unsustainable. "Westerners" are consumers par excellence. Who can blame them . Most spend a totally miserable 9 to 9 type existence and when not working are stuck intraffic jams etc.

So when they have a treat like staying in a hotel they leave the lights on when they go out, turn the heating up, have endless deep baths or whatever takes their fancy. It doesn't matter  as it is included in the price. Of course this sums up some peoples attitude to the earths resources.

And my favourite - water. North Europeans like tomatoes at any time of the year even though they probably end up throwing some of them out. They are grown in southern Europe in absolutely vast ecologically unsound poly green houses that are fed by ever deeper wells sucking vast amounts of water out of the ground making other wells run dry and rivers to dry up. Whatever happened to people eating seasonal veg!! Maybe tomatoes should be taxed out of season? 

V

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Mind you, while you have nutcases like this around, the extremists will always score points:


"Western lifestyle unsustainable, says climate expert Rajendra Pachauri"


"Hotel guests should have their electricity monitored; hefty aviation taxes should be introduced to deter people from flying; and iced water in restaurants should be curtailed, the world's leading climate scientist has told the Observer.

Rajendra Pachauri, the chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), warned that western society must undergo a radical value shift if the worst effects of climate change were to be avoided. A new value system of "sustainable consumption" was now urgently required, he said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/29/rajendra-pachauri-climate-warning-copenhagen

I should point out that Pachauri is NOT a scientist or, indeed, any kind of expert.

Observer LIES again. 

Western Lifestyle IS unsustainable. "Westerners" are consumers par excellence. Who can blame them . Most spend a totally miserable 9 to 9 type existence and when not working are stuck intraffic jams etc.

So when they have a treat like staying in a hotel they leave the lights on when they go out, turn the heating up, have endless deep baths or whatever takes their fancy. It doesn't matter  as it is included in the price. Of course this sums up some peoples attitude to the earths resources.

And my favourite - water. North Europeans like tomatoes at any time of the year even though they probably end up throwing some of them out. They are grown in southern Europe in absolutely vast ecologically unsound poly green houses that are fed by ever deeper wells sucking vast amounts of water out of the ground making other wells run dry and rivers to dry up. Whatever happened to people eating seasonal veg!! Maybe tomatoes should be taxed out of season? 

V

This is the very valid other side of the argument Varche

It has nothing to do with a political conspiracy, but a very REAL threat to human survivability