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[Mr Skrunts]

Just hope no one was hurt as reports have said flames were seen shooting accross the car park and multiple explosions were heard.

"The blaze was triggered by a vehicle fire that spread in Terminal Car Park 2, the airport said" from Google

Watching the news and flicking round the net trying to find out what type of car was the start of the fire. 

EV/PHEV they seem to be the cause of most car fires in the last few years

Or maybe just an electrical issue.

[Terbs]

They are saying its a diesel car....mind you, they wouldn't say its an EV as the repercussions would be enormous...

[LC0112G]

Initial fire is supposed to be in a Diesel Range Rover Evoque. After that a number of EV's were involved and the fire brigade then fought the fire from a distance.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Yep, news is saying a derv car.

[STEMO]

Yep, news is saying a derv car.

Oh dear, JLR electrics.

[dave the builder]

They are saying its a diesel car....mind you, they wouldn't say its an EV as the repercussions would be enormous...

Agreed
I doubt the general public will see any evidence it was a diesel car to blame  unless someone's CGI-ing it now 
clearly the sprinkler systems didn't do their job 
I'm betting the CCTV footage accidentally got deleted too   
must have been nice and toasty warm with all the EV batteries going into melt down ,
along with the concrete ,which isn't all that combustible without severe provocation   

[ronnyd]

Was reading

They are saying its a diesel car....mind you, they wouldn't say its an EV as the repercussions would be enormous...

Agreed
I doubt the general public will see any evidence it was a diesel car to blame  unless someone's CGI-ing it now 
clearly the sprinkler systems didn't do their job 
I'm betting the CCTV footage accidentally got deleted too   
must have been nice and toasty warm with all the EV batteries going into melt down ,
along with the concrete ,which isn't all that combustible without severe provocation   

They are saying its a diesel car....mind you, they wouldn't say its an EV as the repercussions would be enormous...

Agreed
I doubt the general public will see any evidence it was a diesel car to blame  unless someone's CGI-ing it now 
clearly the sprinkler systems didn't do their job 
I'm betting the CCTV footage accidentally got deleted too   
must have been nice and toasty warm with all the EV batteries going into melt down ,
along with the concrete ,which isn't all that combustible without severe provocation   

I read somewhere that there were no sprinkler systems in place. As the car park was only built in 2018, how could this be? Unless the regs for open structures doesn't require them.

[dave the builder]

I doubt the general public will see any evidence it was a diesel car to blame  unless someone's CGI-ing it now 
clearly the sprinkler systems didn't do their job 
I'm betting the CCTV footage accidentally got deleted too   
must have been nice and toasty warm with all the EV batteries going into melt down ,
along with the concrete ,which isn't all that combustible without severe provocation   

I read somewhere that there were no sprinkler systems in place. As the car park was only built in 2018, how could this be? Unless the regs for open structures doesn't require them.

I don't build multi story car parks ,so I don't lnow what the "REGS" are 

but you'd think  a store area for explosives like petrol, Diesel, LPG and lithium ion BOMBS (EV cars) might want sprinklers   

[Migalot]

but you'd think  a store area for explosives like petrol, Diesel, LPG and lithium ion BOMBS (EV cars) might want sprinklers   

Sprinklers would be useless for EVs. Although there is no proof yet as to whether a diesel car started the blaze, apparently a number of EV cars were parked there and sprinkers cannot douse a lithium fire. According to the International Association of Fire and Rescue Services, extinguishing a burning Tesla can take as much as 40,000 gallons of water! 

A statement by Bedfordshire Fire & Rescue Service on the subject [pre-Luton] says: “For the fire brigade, the real problem when it comes to an EV fire is with trying to put it out. The services have two main options, let the fire burn out or extinguish it.

“The obvious choice seems to be to extinguish the fire, however many EV manufacturers actually advise for a controlled burn. This is where the fire services allow the vehicle to burn out while they focus on protecting the surrounding area. Once the fire has been successfully put out, the problem for the fire brigade is not over. Electric vehicle fires are known to reignite hours, days or even weeks after the initial event, and they can do so many times.

“Not only does this pose a safety issue, but it also poses a legal issue: recovery firms are increasingly concerned about dealing with electric vehicles. Fire services across the country are working hard to improve their knowledge and understanding of these fires to ensure that they are prepared as we inevitably see more EVs on the roads.”
 

[Varche]

Just read how many vehicles were involved. Some might just have paint damage but imagine coming back from holiday to find your car is scrap along with all the miscellaneous stuff we all keep . I also keep a couple of thousand pounds in glove box for emergencies.

Insurance companies will be busy.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Just read how many vehicles were involved. Some might just have paint damage but imagine coming back from holiday to find your car is scrap along with all the miscellaneous stuff we all keep . I also keep a couple of thousand pounds in glove box for emergencies.

Insurance companies will be busy.

Like most sensible people do. 

So far in the UK the majority of EV's on the road are from established car manufacturers.  I wonder whether these fires will increase when cheap Chinese models inevitably flood the market?   

[dave the builder]

but you'd think  a store area for explosives like petrol, Diesel, LPG and lithium ion BOMBS (EV cars) might want sprinklers   

Sprinklers would be useless for EVs. Although there is no proof yet as to whether a diesel car started the blaze, apparently a number of EV cars were parked there and sprinkers cannot douse a lithium fire. According to the International Association of Fire and Rescue Services, extinguishing a burning Tesla can take as much as 40,000 gallons of water! 

A statement by Bedfordshire Fire & Rescue Service on the subject [pre-Luton] says: “For the fire brigade, the real problem when it comes to an EV fire is with trying to put it out. The services have two main options, let the fire burn out or extinguish it.

“The obvious choice seems to be to extinguish the fire, however many EV manufacturers actually advise for a controlled burn. This is where the fire services allow the vehicle to burn out while they focus on protecting the surrounding area. Once the fire has been successfully put out, the problem for the fire brigade is not over. Electric vehicle fires are known to reignite hours, days or even weeks after the initial event, and they can do so many times.

“Not only does this pose a safety issue, but it also poses a legal issue: recovery firms are increasingly concerned about dealing with electric vehicles. Fire services across the country are working hard to improve their knowledge and understanding of these fires to ensure that they are prepared as we inevitably see more EVs on the roads.”
 

sprinklers  would have offered fire suppression ,allowing the on site F&R to nip it in the bud 

Especially if the seat WAS a "diesel car" 
and alarms (rate of rise) would have alerted F&R to the problem early 

they charge enough ££££ to park at an airport  , you'd think they might have a few measures in place 

Just read how many vehicles were involved. Some might just have paint damage but imagine coming back from holiday to find your car is scrap along with all the miscellaneous stuff we all keep . I also keep a couple of thousand pounds in glove box for emergencies.

Insurance companies will be busy. PUTTING ARE RENEWAL PRICES UP

fixed for accuracy 
ONE "emergency" that might pop up is having to replace your window glass ,when someone smashes it and removes the 2 grand 

move the money to under your mattress ,like a normal person 

[countrywoman]

Was on telly a few years ago , think it was the French? fire service that sit EVs in a tank of water for a week to make sure the fire goes out.

[Mr Skrunts]

So whose insurance will be claimed on?

The owner of the car that started it or the car park for not having sprinklers?

Another thing that got me thinking was the Fire Brigate arriving.?  Being a major airport they would have excellent fire services and better trained to put fuel fires out than the normal service  but with rules & regs would the airport fire service been allowed to get involvlved?

[dave the builder]

Evoke Hybrid vehicle
AKA half lithium ion BOMB ,half diesel 

[Migalot]

Is it just a trick of the light in that picture, or does it look as if the vehicle's tail lights and front headlights are on? In other words, was it just arriving or leaving when the fire broke out? it doesn't look parked to me, as it's taking up half the thoroughfare.
 

[dave the builder]

Is it just a trick of the light in that picture, or does it look as if the vehicle's tail lights and front headlights are on? In other words, was it just arriving or leaving when the fire broke out? it doesn't look parked to me, as it's taking up half the thoroughfare.
 

that's how Range rover owners park* 

* except mick (Rangie) 

[Viral_Jim]

I saw some commentary from the driver, apparently he had just parked up when the fire started. Car was a diesel.

Evoke Hybrid vehicle
AKA half lithium ion BOMB ,half diesel 
[/quote]

You know the Evoque PHEV is petrol right?

[dave the builder]

I saw some commentary from the driver, apparently he had just parked up when the fire started. Car was a diesel.

You know the Evoque PHEV is petrol right?

No , It's not a rusty old Vauxhall , so it's of no interest to me 

wonder how much they paid him to say it was a diesel #conspiracy 

[Migalot]

I saw some commentary from the driver, apparently he had just parked up when the fire started. Car was a diesel.

Evoke Hybrid vehicle
AKA half lithium ion BOMB ,half diesel 

Doesn't look parked to me.

[Nick W]

So whose insurance will be claimed on?

The owner of the car that started it or the car park for not having sprinklers?

Any car is made of, coated in and full of materials that are easy to set alight, and very difficult to extinguish. It takes a considerable amount of well placed water to do that, and sprinklers can't manage it.


They're like the fire extinguishers placed in buildings; to aid you in getting out of the building if the fire has blocked the exits.

[LC0112G]

I was at an ABS club meet at South Mimms many years ago when a car (not one of ours) started smoking in the car park. After a few minutes it was clear there was an under-bonnet fire. We used our own personal in car fire extinguishers to try and put it out - but after perhaps 5-7 of them it was clear we were having little effect. In the end we had to all back off and wait for Hew, Pew, Barney McGrew et-al to turn up. By the time they did the car was well alight inside and out. It took them a few minutes to put out the fire once they arrived, and AFAIK no other cars were harmed.

I know the airfield fire service at RNAS Yeovilton do respond to (very) local incidents around the Yeovilton/Ilchester area, but civil Fire Brigade also have to attend. I don't know what happened at Luton, but if you drag the airfield fire service off station then the airfield may have to stop plane arrivals and departures coz there is insufficient fire cover. Places like Heathrow have (IIRC) three separate fire stations so they can continue flying even if one station is dealing with a shout. Luton, being only one runway, may not have sufficient cover to handle two events at the same time.

[Doctor Gollum]

The Danes have recently proven a reliable, repeatable system for extinguishing an EV fire with the minimum of fuss and it is such a simple concept that it can only be described as inspired.

Salt water freezes well below zero degrees Celsius.it also neutralises any electrical energy within the battery. Basically you flood the burning EV with super cooled brine and it not only extinguishes the fire, but also shorts the battery down to zero.

They were so confident of the system that they fitted it to the Faroe Islands ropax ferry before the public proof of concept demonstration.

Obviously running around with 20,000 litres of sea water slushy might be considered impractical, but it works.

[Rangie]

Chaos there according to the news this morning, people abandoning their vehicles to try & book in for their flights.

[Varche]

It will be. I wonder when the car park stopped taking bookings…………

[Viral_Jim]

It will be. I wonder when the car park will stopped taking bookings…………

Fixed that for you.   

[Rangie]

Had to go to Beckenham Kent today for a funeral, obviously had to take the M25 , several broken down vehicles en route including a Tesla which was emitting an awful lot of thick black smoke, EV  transport definitely a no from me.

[Doctor Gollum]

https://youtu.be/zk0MWDsueMY?si=rBzkPl3MnwEwDxLD

A rational look at the evidence suggests a diesel.hybrid Evoque to be the cause. Once the runaway battery got up to.speed, it burned down through the concrete enough to allow the car to drop through the structurally ruined concrete to the floor below. Which is where the fun really began.

[dave the builder]

Evoke Hybrid vehicle
AKA half lithium ion BOMB ,half diesel 

A rational look at the evidence suggests a diesel.hybrid Evoque to be the cause. Once the runaway battery got up to.speed, it burned down through the concrete enough to allow the car to drop through the structurally ruined concrete to the floor below. Which is where the fun really began.

How very "rational" of me 3 days ago 

[Doctor Gollum]

About the only thing that John is wrong about is the cause of the Liverpool fire... yes it was a Land Rover product, but it was an older petrol model with aftermarket LPG fitted iirc.

[Viral_Jim]

Evoke Hybrid vehicle
AKA half lithium ion BOMB ,half diesel 

A rational look at the evidence suggests a diesel.hybrid Evoque to be the cause. Once the runaway battery got up to.speed, it burned down through the concrete enough to allow the car to drop through the structurally ruined concrete to the floor below. Which is where the fun really began.

How very "rational" of me 3 days ago 

Except of course that both of you, and the Aussie pr!ck in the video are all wrong about it being a hybrid. Numberplate is/was E10 EFL. Which is a non hybrid diesel.

Unless of course you believe the big conspiracy machine has gone in and changed its DVLA status.

About the only thing that John is wrong about is the cause of the Liverpool fire... yes it was a Land Rover product, but it was an older petrol model with aftermarket LPG fitted iirc.

So he's 2 for 2 then. How very 'rational' of him. 

See post 382 https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/luton-airport.18978728/page-20

[Doctor Gollum]

That front view looks like a CGI scene from a cheap TV movie

And I did say 'about' and 'suggests'' ... whether you agree or not with his inference, some credit is due for his thought process based on the rear view video.

Regardless, cars don't spontaneously self combust without some sort of cause and it does seem to be something of the new normal...

[TheBoy]

DPFs have an occasional habit of setting fire to nearby bits of the car.  So maybe it is a pure diesel car after all.


In my experience, JLR electrics aren't robust enough to be able to do anything useful, like burn down Luton.

[ronnyd]

DPFs have an occasional habit of setting fire to nearby bits of the car.  So maybe it is a pure diesel car after all.


In my experience, JLR electrics aren't robust enough to be able to do anything useful, like burn down Luton.

Oh, what a shame. 

[dave the builder]

Except of course that both of you, and the Aussie pr!ck in the video are all wrong about it being a hybrid. Numberplate is/was E10 EFL. Which is a non hybrid diesel.

Unless of course you believe the big conspiracy machine has gone in and changed its DVLA status.

I can't read that reg plate 

the ANPR cameras would have read the reg of the actual car involved 

[Doctor Gollum]

I wonder if, looking at all the actual footage rather than that somewhat dubious GTA front view... the smoke is even in the wrong direction , that RR had just been collected by its owner just in the nick of time and driven away before realising that it was on fire

Most of the fire appears to be on the roof of the carpark from the external videos and aftermath pictures... still plenty of otherwise undamaged vehicles inside.

[redelitev6]

Daughter works for an insurance company , she was saying they've had a lot of claims from the Luton Airport fire and some claims have already been paid out !

[STEMO]

Daughter works for an insurance company , she was saying they've had a lot of claims from the Luton Airport fire and some claims have already been paid out !

Won't the insurer of the car that caught fire originally have to pay out for the lot?

[Doctor Gollum]

Eventually.

Either those being paid out are with the same insurer as the firestarter or their insurance has accepted that the damage is catastrophic ie burnt out rather than an otherwise undamaged car that the clean up team CBA to hoik out

[Viral_Jim]

Daughter works for an insurance company , she was saying they've had a lot of claims from the Luton Airport fire and some claims have already been paid out !

Won't the insurer of the car that caught fire originally have to pay out for the lot?

Yes, but...

Every car owner will claim on their own insurance as a no-fault claim (also probably will the building owner, and anyone with applicable travel insurance who had their journeys disrupted). Then all those insurers will seek to recover costs from the insurer of the car that was determined as the cause of the fire. If it goes to court (which can take years), the court then buckets up all of the claims by type and makes a determination as to whether each type of claim is payable by the insurer.

All the while, the insurer of the original car will be looking for reasons not to pay out and shift blame onto the driver. If this happens then the driver would likely have to declare bankruptcy (unless he or she is good for £30m or so) and then the insurers may be able to claim out of a pot that they all have to pay into for uninsured losses. If they can't then the individual insurers will have to take the hit on behalf of their clients. 

[Terbs]

Excuse the ignorance, but how can they blame the driver

[Viral_Jim]

Excuse the ignorance, but how can they blame the driver

At a guess, contributory negligence would be a most likely route they would try.

Say for example video footage emerged showing he'd driven several miles with the thing smoking / on fire, they might try to say he was negligent not to notice and pull over sooner.

[Nick W]

Excuse the ignorance, but how can they blame the driver

You really don't understand car insurance, do you Tony?


Here's a brief explanation:


the money in your account isn't yours; it's theirs, and any money you've already paid them for fantasy services wasn't enough.

[STEMO]

The court costs will probably end up being a tidy sum as well.

[dave the builder]

Excuse the ignorance, but how can they blame the driver

Check his Ebay
see if he did any modifications ,like a plug in power booster that saves 60% on fuel , but adds 250 BHP 
Looking at the videos again , maybe he had an Omega power sounder  in the glove box 
No doubt insurance companies will increase ALL our insurance premiums end put extra T&Cs in the small print 

[Mr Skrunts]

So if the RR was say under warranty and parked at the time.

Would they not sue the manufacturer? As mentioned it was not being driven at the time. The RR could have been a future call back fault that has not yet been identified.

[Nick W]

So if the RR was say under warranty and parked at the time.

Would they not sue the manufacturer? As mentioned it was not being driven at the time. The RR could have been a future call back fault that has not yet been identified.

Which will be Dieselgate all over again; a recall that makes your car worse. Don't Land Rovers us over the air updates which will save the dealers having to argue with you about not wanting it?

[redelitev6]

Excuse the ignorance, but how can they blame the driver

As long as the car was legal and had been serviced by a reputable garage surely negligence would be hard to prove ?   

[Sir Tigger KC]

Excuse the ignorance, but how can they blame the driver

As long as the car was legal and had been serviced by a reputable garage surely negligence would be hard to prove ?

That would be most of us buggered then! 

[Doctor Gollum]

Excuse the ignorance, but how can they blame the driver

The registered keeper or legal owner will be the person legally responsible for the road worthiness of the vehicle including RFL and insurance. If it's leased o or a company car it will still have some form of insurance in place. The driver also has a responsibility to ensure that the vehicle is adequately insured etc

[Marks DTM Calib]

So if the RR was say under warranty and parked at the time.

Would they not sue the manufacturer? As mentioned it was not being driven at the time. The RR could have been a future call back fault that has not yet been identified.

Which will be Dieselgate all over again; a recall that makes your car worse. Don't Land Rovers us over the air updates which will save the dealers having to argue with you about not wanting it?

Most manufacturers are doing SOTA, JLR being a leader in it, the customer still has to accept the update though as the EU brought in rules stopping silent updates

[Rangie]

Act of God, as vehicles are now considered to be the work of the devil..😂

[STEMO]

Most insurers will pay out first and try to claim it back later, but there are bound to be some awkward bastards who won't.