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[laney101]

When going around a bend at pace car turns in then kind of slides or pulls it self half way around corner (turns again with no more input) as if something is loose or moved underneath front end and you need to quickly adjust steering.

Terrified me other day. 

Gonna get it jacked up as assess all joints this week but has anyone else had anything similar.


Tyre all all good 1 year old dunlop sport max rt2
Wishbones droplinks steering arms tied rod centre bar and idler arm all new in past 12 months.

[biggriffin]

Diff mounts, or donuts, sounds like rear ends moving.

[Nick W]

Diff mounts, or donuts, sounds like rear ends moving.

that.


It only takes a tiny movement at the back to have a large effect on the front.

[laney101]

Really... ok i shall have a nosey... seem strange it all of a sudden happened....

[Doctor Gollum]

Depends on how you were driving when it let go...

[laney101]

It was nothong to do with the driving style etc...

Its a issue with car.


Turning a corner i go around every day for work
Not fast not hard just normal pace..

Turned corner going around it then car mobed itself mid corner and i had to correct it. (The front not rear)

Wasnt understeer was as if wheel angle changed mid corner

[Doctor Gollum]

Re read what I typed.

But from your latest description, wishbone bushes and tyre pressures...

Also, car control 101, any directional change from either end is corrected by appropriate input of both steering wheel or throttle.

When the diff mount(s) fail, the weight transfer across the rear end mid corner can really throw the back end off, and although unnerving, requires no steering input (unless the back end actually breaks away, in an Omega this generally means your about to roll it).

[dave the builder]

or Diesel , or oil spill on the road
under inflated tyres can be very sketchy if you hit a corner wrong 

[laney101]

Wasnt didsel or spillage ...

Its happened in various corner various speed over last few weeks .. but only slightly

This time was scary. As if car steering did something completely different to what i was doing.

The back end did not move. Was front ..

Throttle wasnt changed neither was steering input.

Smooth corner steady speed all of a sudden frotn of car pull in tight to corner very quickly so i had to steer other way ..

Felt like wheel camber chamged or soemthing.

Going to check ball joint. And wishbone bushes but cant see it as all new in past 12months.

If was dangerous

[laney101]

With regards to diff bushes failing.

So when rear end moves causes front to be irratic.

Also am i looking for the bushes to be split or fallen apart??

[Doctor Gollum]

Back it onto ramps and place a trolley jack and block UP TO the diff. DO NOT lift the diff. Then undo the diff mounts as follows:

Left side, remove both bolts. If the bracket falls off, the mount needs recasting in polyurethane (you can fit second hand, but good luck finding any... Not available new) . Refit bracket and bolts and retorque them.

Repeat on right hand mount.

DO NOT remove BOTH mounts at the same time. Instant death may result.

If the mount drops a half inch or so but doesn't fall off then the mount is serviceable but check for condition/cracks. 

Report your findings and we can move onto repairing them.

[Andy H]

When going around a bend at pace car turns in then kind of slides or pulls it self half way around corner (turns again with no more input) as if something is loose or moved underneath front end and you need to quickly adjust steering.

Terrified me other day. 

Gonna get it jacked up as assess all joints this week but has anyone else had anything similar.


Tyre all all good 1 year old dunlop sport max rt2
Wishbones droplinks steering arms tied rod centre bar and idler arm all new in past 12 months.

loose front subframe bolts or totally fubar wishbone bushes might do it.

[terry paget]

Check front tyres for wear on inner edges. I have seen front tyres looking fine across most of tread but inner edges with wires coming out. Such tyres can cause sudden break away.

[2011venator]

Wasnt didsel or spillage ...

Its happened in various corner various speed over last few weeks .. but only slightly

This time was scary. As if car steering did something completely different to what i was doing.

The back end did not move. Was front ..

Throttle wasnt changed neither was steering input.



Smooth corner steady speed all of a sudden frotn of car pull in tight to corner very quickly so i had to steer other way ..

Felt like wheel camber chamged or soemthing.

Going to check ball joint. And wishbone bushes but cant see it as all new in past 12months.

If was dangerous

Hi Laney seems you might have the twin sister of my car, so far I have replaced front wisbones, changed tyres, replaced ball joints, replaced idler arm, had tracking checked, and still has a mind of its own. At first it feels like it is pulling to nearside but I have noticed it depends on the road and will drive straight on a flat surface it seems that any imperfection in the road will make it dive into nearside or offside needing instant correction it is as you say not very reassuring. The big difference is yours is while cornering whereas my is more when trying to keep in a straight line, my evil twin seems ok in the corners. Hope you find the problem as at the moment it is baffling me.

[laney101]

Big update this morning...

Cheera for help guy following has been found.

All tyres are fine ... wearing pretty much even accross whole tread front and back.

Wishbone horizontal bushes no play
Wishbone verticle bushes no play
Front wheels checked 9 and 3 no movement

Front wheels checked 12 and 6. Very slight movement??

Checked front steering arms left and right.
Driver no play good solid movement

Passenger can be moved very easily as if worn. (Annoying as swapped them both less than year ago.

Rear end removed diff mount one by one.
Both only droppes arouns 8 to 10 mm

Didnt fall off.. pulled and wigled them they seem solid with next to now cracks in them so bolted back up.

Rear beam doughnuts. Lots of verticle movement. Can hear the beam moving as i leavered it with large screwdrover. Both sides the same.

Compared to another omega o had in for breaking with 80k on it and the movement was a lot more.


So only things ive found up to now if beam doughnut bushes.

And one steering arm.

I have however found although car sdives straight and true and been tracked the front camber is -2degree

So i need to reset to around -1.1degree to -1.3degree

[Doctor Gollum]

 

[laney101]

??

[Doctor Gollum]

You've been told before about the geometry.

[laney101]

Told what it need to he right.. no shit.

It been tracked twice different places. Both time it comes out and it drives straight no pulling wheel cenrral and its fi e.

Im not paying for a 4 wheel alignment till all work is finished as removing arms swapping bushes etc require it being redone.

So tracking is fine at moment as rear has never been touched.

But as just stated notice camber for to excessive so going to reset camber myself and then get retracked also.

Even with 2 degree camber had no tyre wear issues

[Doctor Gollum]

Geometry advice given here is based on millions of miles of collective Omega experience.

Having personally been down the road of replacing the front tyres every thousand miles trying to get to the bottom of geometry issues, I am only trying to spare you, and other newish Omega owners from suffering similar.

But hey, if you know better than all the collective knowledge here, crack on... We will say we told you so

[laney101]

Didnt say i know better and as usual you are not reading post.

Just state

Geometry advice given here is based on millions of miles of collective Omega experience.

Having personally been down the road of replacing the front tyres every thousand miles trying to get to the bottom of geometry issues, I am only trying to spare you, and other newish Omega owners from suffering similar.

But hey, if you know better than all the collective knowledge here, crack on... We will say we told you so

d
i have had no tyre wear issues what so ever .. tyres wear fine. And car drive straight and true.
Car will be 4 wheel aligned when it is ready to.
Once back end has bushes and springs swapped etc...
Not gonna pay 100 plus pound for 4 wheel alignment for i in 4 weeks  maybe 6 weeks have to go back and pay again because i swapped somerhing around.

Be mad to. Especially when it is fine as it (for now.)

No tyre wear all even and wearing well..

This post was not about geometry it was about a issue with something moving(or seems to be movig) and as per usual things go of on tangent on forum


Did you read what i said i chdcked and habe any advice on that stuff ?? Do you feel the eccessive camber could be causing it or maybe playing it part in the issue

I know the issues with omega and geomtry issue. Thrust angle needs to be 0    front camber down to around 1.1 to 1.3 negative camber at front
Rear camber ends up whatever as long as toe and thrust angle right..

And it will be once it ready to be done.

I would never replace tyres every couple of thousand miles. As said again and again mine is fine onntyres wears really well

Also before some jumps.out and tells me to go WIM for alignment dont. Jesus it the only place that ever gets mentioned on here. It may be the best for it and id say ot is by sounds of it. But for most people it miles away and of no use.

I have to use the wheel alignment and ball joint centre in liverpool as even thats 35mins away.

[Doctor Gollum]

Like I said, crack on. 

[laney101]

So now because you didnt like what i say you not gonna be of any help.

I even asked a question in last post.

I got asked to check wishbones rear bushes
I have done... no comment??

Ive checked tyres theyre all fine no comment?

Mentioned i had found what i believe to be play in rear beam bishes but unsure if it excessive no comment on that.


Things get posted on here because people asking for help ive done nothing any different. You went off on one being funny saying crack on and saying apparently i know.more than collective people.
Never have i mentioned that i do or made out like that.

I know my camber excessive on front but got no tyre wear or pulling or wheel of centre issue so cant see how it giving me my cornering problems unless it it thats all. Im nit sure ??


How can poeple learn or find out things if people dont help. No good being abrupt or jist dismissing what others say thay not helpfuk in slightest

Like I said, crack on. 

[Doctor Gollum]

To answer your questions, Delphi ball joints if required and whatever rear bushes the wishbones came with along with front poly.

Wishbones, drop links and track rods from ATP. And treat them as a service item, which in my case meant every six months as I was doing 40+k a year.

Can't speak for the White line stuff as I fitted Pedders to all mine.

[laney101]

Thankyou for reply.

I did do overhaul around 8 months ago full new everything on front wishbones drop links  steering arms etc ..

However wishbonrs were new but uknown brand.

So was te.oted to refurb the old Gm ones ive got with poly front and new gm rear bush. For ball joint bit delphi as you say? How does that sound. And do you know gm part number for rear bush on wishbone

Whitleine stuff has very good review form fellow owners in usa and monaro owners.  So only time will tell.. bit yes ive jeard of pedder and very good reviews

[johnnydog]

. And do you know gm part number for rear bush on wishbone

Rear bush - 9156605 (previously was 90445571 which now NLS).

[Nick W]

Omegas are utterly reliant on having properly set and controlled suspension geometry. Get either of those wrong and you get all sorts of weird handling 'characteristics'. Too much camber(and your 2° is far too much), or different side to side will easily make for odd steering, as will worn rear bushes.


Having your car properly aligned by somebody who knows what he is doing is an important part of diagnosing what is wrong. Not doing that is wasteful in parts plus your, and now our, time. This is advice that is repeatedly given, but frequently misunderstood and ignored. That leads to both your, and DG's frustration.


Optimising the car's geometry transforms a car that might drive OK before the job. The last time mine was done cost £75, and that was because the rear camber/toe needed adjusting due to recent subframe bushes.

[456lbft]

Ditto my MV6 does the same. Was much improved by changing the front top mounts and resetting the front camber to 1.0deg.  More than 1.0 deg causes the front to "tramline" (ie follow the camber changes in the road or white lines, lorry ruts etc to a sometimes alarming degree. It is a problem that I am familiar with from years of working on Lotus Carltons. It is made worse on an LC by the wider rear track.  I have also found that however tight that you do the adjusting bolts on the front struts they don't hold the camber. So now we use Eibach camber adjusting bolts (ebay them) for the top slotted bolt hole, which work well.
I'd like to say we cured the MV6 this way, but it does still swing about a bit on undulating roads, even ones that I drive on regularly.  So I suspect something at the rear, most probably the big subframe donuts is also contributing. The Lotus's have much harder donuts, so probably don't suffer as much crabbing due to horizontal movement of the front of the subframe.  They do however get axle tramp when the inner sleeve separates from the rubber leading to excessive vertical motion.  The Lotus donuts are NLS of course so a poly replacement from pedders or similar is on the shopping list next.

[laney101]

Think im gonna start with what ive found 

Rear doughnuts loads of play so replacing them with poly i have them already.

Gonna rebuild my wishbones with new rear bushes and powerflex front.

Top mount have been insoected and there seems to be some gap between them and towers. Am asaumjng there shidnt be so may go for uprated top mounts.

Ill sey camber at 1 degree each fromt wheel and retrack myself. (So i can drive it to the wheel alignment and ball joint center for 4 wheel geometry on hunter system.

May even throw in a cheeky PAS fluid change aswell


Question does anyone ever swap out trailing arm bushes. As it common upgrade on monaros

[VXL V6]

Front camber should be more like -1 degree. WIM have their own settings and Tony Bones will tweak it to suit your requirements.

[Doctor Gollum]

There's a guide for the rear subframe donut bushes.

[laney101]

Once again WIM is too far will not be going there.

And i stated 1 degree of camber.  (Didnt put negative  as it a given you would never run postive camber haha )

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Members used to recommend Nigel Langs of Bolton, if my memory serves.

[VXL V6]

Members used to recommend Nigel Langs of Bolton, if my memory serves.

Yes recall some good feedback

[biggriffin]

Think im gonna start with what ive found 

Rear doughnuts loads of play so replacing them with poly i have them already.

Gonna rebuild my wishbones with new rear bushes and powerflex front.

Top mount have been insoected and there seems to be some gap between them and towers. Am asaumjng there shidnt be so may go for uprated top mounts.

Ill sey camber at 1 degree each fromt wheel and retrack myself. (So i can drive it to the wheel alignment and ball joint center for 4 wheel geometry on hunter system.

May even throw in a cheeky PAS fluid change aswell


Question does anyone ever swap out trailing arm bushes. As it common upgrade on monaros

 If you replace, to many of the rubber bushes wit poly, you will start to get stress cracks, because the vibrations are transfered to different points around the car,, something has to give and flex....and more road noise

[456lbft]

Think im gonna start with what ive found 

Rear doughnuts loads of play so replacing them with poly i have them already.

Gonna rebuild my wishbones with new rear bushes and powerflex front.

Top mount have been insoected and there seems to be some gap between them and towers. Am asaumjng there shidnt be so may go for uprated top mounts.

Ill sey camber at 1 degree each fromt wheel and retrack myself. (So i can drive it to the wheel alignment and ball joint center for 4 wheel geometry on hunter system.

May even throw in a cheeky PAS fluid change aswell


Question does anyone ever swap out trailing arm bushes. As it common upgrade on monaros

 If you replace, to many of the rubber bushes wit poly, you will start to get stress cracks, because the vibrations are transfered to different points around the car,, something has to give and flex....and more road noise

Good point, I believe that K-mac addressed this with different options of Poly bushes with and without extra holes or adding an extra packer to reduce vertical movement.
Also not all polyurethane is the same hardness, it can be varied with the mix from soft and squishy to near solid.  I am embarking on a mission to get rear top damper mounts made for the Lotus Carlton air shocks (Same as Omega B Elite)

[Doctor Gollum]

Saloon and estate shock mounts are different, so be careful what you get made...

[456lbft]

Saloon and estate shock mounts are different, so be careful what you get made...

Good point, I'm only interested in the Lotus Carlton really, and therefore Saloons. I realise that there are a lot of Carlton and Omega Estates with self levelling/air dampers, and I'd be happy to have a look at them if someone wants to drop in with a nice example

[456lbft]

Ditto my MV6 does the same. Was much improved by changing the front top mounts and resetting the front camber to 1.0deg.  More than 1.0 deg causes the front to "tramline" (ie follow the camber changes in the road or white lines, lorry ruts etc to a sometimes alarming degree. It is a problem that I am familiar with from years of working on Lotus Carltons. It is made worse on an LC by the wider rear track.  I have also found that however tight that you do the adjusting bolts on the front struts they don't hold the camber. So now we use Eibach camber adjusting bolts (ebay them) for the top slotted bolt hole, which work well.
I'd like to say we cured the MV6 this way, but it does still swing about a bit on undulating roads, even ones that I drive on regularly.  So I suspect something at the rear, most probably the big subframe donuts is also contributing. The Lotus's have much harder donuts, so probably don't suffer as much crabbing due to horizontal movement of the front of the subframe.  They do however get axle tramp when the inner sleeve separates from the rubber leading to excessive vertical motion.  The Lotus donuts are NLS of course so a poly replacement from pedders or similar is on the shopping list next.

I fitted these for ease of future tracking adjustments, which we made from Stainless steel bar.

[laney101]

I have fitted whiteline rear  beam bushes. These also have larger spacer on top to stop movement vertically.

Yes anything stiffer than stock will eventually have the potential to crack things.

I have fitted these poly doughnuts.
Only other poly will be front wishbone bush.

Thats it

[456lbft]

I have fitted whiteline rear  beam bushes. These also have larger spacer on top to stop movement vertically.

Yes anything stiffer than stock will eventually have the potential to crack things.

I have fitted these poly doughnuts.
Only other poly will be front wishbone bush.

Thats it

Where did the front wishbone bushes come from, were they Whiteline too? If so do you have a part number?

[456lbft]

I use solid aluminium mounts on my LC race car, and the subframe twists so much the rear A/R bar mounts have dented the rear floor. I wondered what the knocking was from the rear, now it has created it's own clearance and doesn't do it when carefully driven.  Next step is a stiffer rear subframe, one day when there's time...

[laney101]

Front wishbone std at minite will be powerflex bushes

I have fitted whiteline rear  beam bushes. These also have larger spacer on top to stop movement vertically.

Yes anything stiffer than stock will eventually have the potential to crack things.

I have fitted these poly doughnuts.
Only other poly will be front wishbone bush.

Thats it

Where did the front wishbone bushes come from, were they Whiteline too? If so do you have a part number?