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[LC0112G]

Next month I'm off to the USA, and in October I'm off to Oz. In both places I would like access to mobile interweb whilst sitting in in a car in the middle of no-where. My sister showed me one of these over the weekend :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254669429644

I connected my notebook to it and it seemed to work Ok. With one of these widgets AIUI you just walk into a mobile phone shop in whatever country you're in, buy a PAYG SIM card, plug it in and off you go. Then whilst doing several more seconds of extensive research I came across similar 5G devices, such as...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134198481204

Is there any advantage/disadvantage in buying a 5G one over a 4G one other than the price? I'm not expecting to use huge amounts of data, just want to run ADSBExchange/Planeplotter/FR24 for a few hours at a time whilst in the middle of various desserts, and use a home brew satnav receiver to navigate around. I will/should have phone coverage (though dunno how good) but the nearest 'free' McWifi will be too far away.

I do not have, never have had and have no intention of ever having a mobile phone so don't even think about suggesting that. And no my notebook does not have a SIM card slot either.

Cheers
Malcolm

[TheBoy]

I use(d) a 3G one for ages, buying local country SIMs when travelling.  Nowadays, I either use my phone as said hotspot when in Euroland, or pop a local SIM in the phone.

However, if you don't want to do that, and assuming your current handset isn't dual SIM (to take a local country SIM), if you have an old/spare 4G handset, why not use that as a hotspot?  Android works slightly better in that regard (as crApple, for non iOS devices, does not automatically reconnect unless the Mobile Hotspot page is open at point of connection).

From my experience of the USA, mobile coverage is somewhere between crap and non existent once you get out into the countryside.  So be prepared for it not working if you plan going between cities.

5G SA is fast, and has the potential for better coverage, though don't think anyone is far enough into their 5G rollout to exploit that.
5G NSA is really just 4G, and this is what most of the world currently has deployed.
4G/3G is well enough known, so not need to explain.


*IF* I was buying a mobile hotspot/router (which I wouldn't, given the pile of capable 4G spare handsets I have here), I think I'd buy 5G just to future proof it for the next 2 to 3 years.

[LC0112G]

I use(d) a 3G one for ages, buying local country SIMs when travelling.  Nowadays, I either use my phone as said hotspot when in Euroland, or pop a local SIM in the phone.

However, if you don't want to do that, and assuming your current handset isn't dual SIM (to take a local country SIM), if you have an old/spare 4G handset, why not use that as a hotspot?  Android works slightly better in that regard (as crApple, for non iOS devices, does not automatically reconnect unless the Mobile Hotspot page is open at point of connection).

From my experience of the USA, mobile coverage is somewhere between crap and non existent once you get out into the countryside.  So be prepared for it not working if you plan going between cities.

5G SA is fast, and has the potential for better coverage, though don't think anyone is far enough into their 5G rollout to exploit that.
5G NSA is really just 4G, and this is what most of the world currently has deployed.
4G/3G is well enough known, so not need to explain.


*IF* I was buying a mobile hotspot/router (which I wouldn't, given the pile of capable 4G spare handsets I have here), I think I'd buy 5G just to future proof it for the next 2 to 3 years.

Ta, but on one point...

However, if you don't want to do that, and assuming your current handset isn't dual SIM (to take a local country SIM), if you have an old/spare 4G handset, why not use that as a hotspot?  Android works slightly better in that regard (as crApple, for non iOS devices, does not automatically reconnect unless the Mobile Hotspot page is open at point of connection).

I don't have a (current or old) 1G handset
I don't have a (current or old) 2G handset
I don't have a (current or old) 3G handset
I don't have a (current or old) 4G handset
I don't have a (current or old) 5G handset
I don't have anything  (current or old) that even has a SIM slot, never mind dual SIM slots.

I have a Trimphone, connected to a land line.

[TheBoy]

I have a Trimphone, connected to a land line.

And I thought I was a luddite, with my 8746 phone, in red

Is it a Trimphone dial one, or the posher press button.  I assume you know the dial one was radioactive to illuminate the dial.


Back to hotspots, if its just for the one trip, nick a phone of a friend/neighbour/family, and keep the 100 bucks for a visit or 2 to Ruby Tuesdays - Ribs with extra sauce....

[Doctor Gollum]

Or just get a phone...

They already know who you are and where you are. 

And if you use a card for anything,  they also know what colour your socks are and your favourite McDongals burger

Oh, and if you're using a proper airline, and flying to New York towards the middle of the month,  our paths might cross

[Marks DTM Calib]

I use(d) a 3G one for ages, buying local country SIMs when travelling.  Nowadays, I either use my phone as said hotspot when in Euroland, or pop a local SIM in the phone.

However, if you don't want to do that, and assuming your current handset isn't dual SIM (to take a local country SIM), if you have an old/spare 4G handset, why not use that as a hotspot?  Android works slightly better in that regard (as crApple, for non iOS devices, does not automatically reconnect unless the Mobile Hotspot page is open at point of connection).

From my experience of the USA, mobile coverage is somewhere between crap and non existent once you get out into the countryside.  So be prepared for it not working if you plan going between cities.

5G SA is fast, and has the potential for better worse coverage, though don't think anyone is far enough into their 5G rollout to exploit that.
5G NSA is really just 4G, and this is what most of the world currently has deployed.
4G/3G is well enough known, so not need to explain.


*IF* I was buying a mobile hotspot/router (which I wouldn't, given the pile of capable 4G spare handsets I have here), I think I'd buy 5G just to future proof it for the next 2 to 3 years.

Corrected that for you, as 5G is at higher frequencies so absorption losses are much greater and coverage less. For it to be better it needs many times the number of base stations. Loads if marketing bull around it at the moment sadly

Been doing loads of testing on it at the moment (we have a 5G mast at Gaydon.............good excuse to wang it around the circuit at 140mph in a Defender)

[Andy B]

Or just get a phone... ...

That was my first thought too ... 

[TheBoy]

Corrected that for you, as 5G is at higher frequencies so absorption losses are much greater and coverage less. For it to be better it needs many times the number of base stations. Loads if marketing bull around it at the moment sadly

There are bands in the 600-800MHz, which do give better penetration.

I did say *potential* for better coverage. But as you say its all marketing rubbish in the UK (and globally) as apart from Voda* having some test sites that are carrying live 5G SA, all the 5G in the UK isn't 5G, no matter what the handset claims.  Its all NSA, so 4G.


*and EE in Adastral Park, but that's hardly carrying live, public traffic

[LC0112G]

Oh, and if you're using a proper airline, and flying to New York towards the middle of the month,  our paths might cross

American Airlines to Charlotte on the way in. American Airlines from Phoenix on the way out.
For Oz it's American Airlines to LAX (via PHX) on the way there, and direct from LAX to LHR on the way back. Unfortunatley got to use Qantas LAX from/to BNE both in and out because AA don't fly there themselves.

I refuse point blank to use BA for anything (including code shares) unless there is no other alternative (a better alternative is walking or swimming). Don't like JFK either, although don't mind Newark. However, neither have military jets based there, so Charlotte, Minneapolis and Phoenix for me :-)

[Marks DTM Calib]

Corrected that for you, as 5G is at higher frequencies so absorption losses are much greater and coverage less. For it to be better it needs many times the number of base stations. Loads if marketing bull around it at the moment sadly

There are bands in the 600-800MHz, which do give better penetration.

I did say *potential* for better coverage. But as you say its all marketing rubbish in the UK (and globally) as apart from Voda* having some test sites that are carrying live 5G SA, all the 5G in the UK isn't 5G, no matter what the handset claims.  Its all NSA, so 4G.


*and EE in Adastral Park, but that's hardly carrying live, public traffic

None of the low frequency bands can be used, the handset chips don't support them until the next silcion revision. Plus they are not yet in use in the networks, and can't be until full 3G sunset 

Like you say, marketing bull all over the place 

[LC0112G]

If 'real' 5G relies on next gen chips, then that schedule will already have slipped to the right by at least 2 years due to the current chip fab shortages. If China/Taiwan kicks off then it'll slip again by a lot more - possibly 5 years - whilst the other fabs that are being panic built in the west come up to speed.

From what I've gathered in this thread I think I'll stick with the £70 4G wifi hot spot widget. Can't see 4G being completely obsolete inside the next 10 years.

[TheBoy]

Corrected that for you, as 5G is at higher frequencies so absorption losses are much greater and coverage less. For it to be better it needs many times the number of base stations. Loads if marketing bull around it at the moment sadly

There are bands in the 600-800MHz, which do give better penetration.

I did say *potential* for better coverage. But as you say its all marketing rubbish in the UK (and globally) as apart from Voda* having some test sites that are carrying live 5G SA, all the 5G in the UK isn't 5G, no matter what the handset claims.  Its all NSA, so 4G.


*and EE in Adastral Park, but that's hardly carrying live, public traffic

None of the low frequency bands can be used, the handset chips don't support them until the next silcion revision. Plus they are not yet in use in the networks, and can't be until full 3G sunset 

Like you say, marketing bull all over the place 

Errr, my gayPhone supports bands as low as 700MHz, its the high 24+ GHz its missing.  But the networks aren't doing much on public masts at the moment - kinda pointless until we go SA - but the Nokia gear thats currently being chucked at in alarming rate as part of the plan to rip out Huawei defo supports in, so the silicon is there now, though I'm sure later revisions will optimise it further.  But its definitely out there on current consumer handsets and on an ever increasing number of masts.

As to living with 3G, I'm told by some of our engineers that they can co-reside.  I kinda have to take this at face value, as all the training I did on radio transmission was at a time when Orange and co were rumoured to be launching a 1800MHz service, and I couldn't get me head around how you could get the low power handset to deal with such frequencies .  Things have most likely moved on.


Trouble is with the current state of 5G, is every network has raced to get "5G" out there, so that people see it on their shiny new handsets as 5G, but it ain't really 5G, its 4G using 5G bands between the handset and the mast.  Marketing wank.


Incidentally, some mobile network operators have committed to switching off their 2G and 3G networks within a couple of years....   ....which has the potential to bugger things up, seeing as so much stuff still relies on particularly 2G.  And as 4G can't do voice*, many older handsets will be shagged.  And all those smart meters....


*4G is data only, so any voice has to be done over data, either in traditional VoIP, or VoLTE, or fall back to 2G/3G for voice.

[TheBoy]

Can't see 4G being completely obsolete inside the next 10 years.

Traditionally, old cellular services are kept running.  The last bit closure in the UK was the old TACS stuff.  There does now appear to be a desire to get rid of older technologies like 2G and 3G quite quickly (and possibly 4G a few more years down the line), mainly due to reusing the expensive spectrum that the mobile networks bought, but also because running 3 networks (2/3G, 4G/5GNSA, 5GSA - these all share very little anywhere in the network) is hugely expensive for the mobile operator.

The promised advantages of 5G, beyond the marketing tosh, means once 5G SA is pushed out, there will be a desire for networks to shut down 4G...   ...which for most will coincide with most users already having a 5G capable device.  How long for that to happen? A few years, but probably not 10

[Kevin Wood]

I can see 2G outlasting 3G by quite a margin in the UK. It's not a big overhead to slot a 200 KHz GERAN carier on the edge of a 4G cell for backward compatibility, and spin up a couple more when required. Much less so UMTS, so that will die soon. Cell sites are all massive SDRs these days anyway, so they can dynamically share spectrum between 2/3/4/5G according to demand, hence the attraction of NSA. 2G will probably last until most of the IoT traffic has migrated to CAT-M or NBIoT.

Marketing bull aside, the march of cellular technology is all about getting greater capacity for the netwok operators anyway. The amount of bandwidth they choose, or are able, to give to you at any given time is pretty much unrelated to the tchnology, although by having a 5G device you obviously stand a better chance. You'll still get next to nothing out in the sticks, as that doesn't pay.    

[Marks DTM Calib]

It will support the 'bands' but not the tech needed to get full speed from them (which will be low anyway, as its a very limited bandwidth).

It needs release 16 support (15 gives only a basic 4G type patch capability), and this is only just dropping now because the standards have been 'fluctuating', had a long discussion just yesterday on this point with Qualcomm.

The higher frequency bands will be even more useless for coverage!