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[Sir Tigger KC]

Seriously?        

Yes. If you state that someone has lied, you should provide an example.

Unless, of course, you rely on the BBC et al for your views...

He said he wasn't going to invade Ukraine, that was a bit of a porky 

Uncle STEMO beat me to it...  But yes, he stationed 10,000's of troops and equipment along the Russia/Ukrainian border and along with his thuggish henchman Lavrov, insisted that they were just there on exercise. 

The pair of them and the Defense Minister Shoigu, even told their lies directly to international politicians visiting Moscow in the run up to their invasion. 

Good enough? 

[Migalot]

He said he wasn't going to invade Ukraine, that was a bit of a porky 

That's why he deliberately termed the incursion as a Special Military Operation, as he answered a request for help from the Russian-speaking populations of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts who had suffered 14,000 deaths from bombing by Kiev between 2014 and 2021.

Talking of lies, declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to given to Soviet leaders [following German reunification] from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner. That collective lie led to all this.

Oh, and the Minsk 1 and Minsk 2 Accords (which would have kept Ukraine intact) were guaranteed by France and Germany but they later admitted that they had no intention of honouring the Accords. So they effectively lied.

And, of course, following the initial incursion by 70,000 Russian troops, Ukraine initialed the Istanbul Agreement which, again, would have kept Ukraine intact. As part of that, Russia agreed as a goodwill gesture to withdraw troops from Kiev. Unfortunately, Johnson flew to Kiev and told Zelensky not to sign, but to fight Russia instead. Very bad move.

Had the Minsk Accords and the Istanbul Agreement been honoured, Donbass would have remained part of Ukraine, albeit with autonomy governing language, religion etc.

In a little mitigation, Zelensky has been under pressure from the Nazi element within Western Ukrainian society. These openly display the Nazi salute and have tattoos of Hitler and the Waffen SS.

My late parents both served in WW2 against Nazism. I honour their memory by similarly opposing Nazism in Ukraine.

You won't find all that on the BBC.

However, in 2015 (following the coup of 2014), Consortium News reported: "The U.S. House of Representatives has admitted an ugly truth that the U.S. mainstream media has tried to hide from the American people that the post-coup regime in Ukraine has relied heavily on Nazi storm troopers to carry out its bloody war against ethnic Russians, reports Robert Parry."


https://consortiumnews.com/2015/06/12/u-s-house-admits-nazi-role-in-ukraine/   

[STEMO]

He said he wasn't going to invade Ukraine, that was a bit of a porky 

That's why he deliberately termed the incursion as a Special Military Operation, as he answered a request for help from the Russian-speaking populations of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts who had suffered 14,000 deaths from bombing by Kiev between 2014 and 2021.

Talking of lies, declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to given to Soviet leaders [following German reunification] from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner. That collective lie led to all this.

Oh, and the Minsk 1 and Minsk 2 Accords (which would have kept Ukraine intact) were guaranteed by France and Germany but they later admitted that they had no intention of honouring the Accords. So they effectively lied.

And, of course, following the initial incursion by 70,000 Russian troops, Ukraine initialed the Istanbul Agreement which, again, would have kept Ukraine intact. As part of that, Russia agreed as a goodwill gesture to withdraw troops from Kiev. Unfortunately, Johnson flew to Kiev and told Zelensky not to sign, but to fight Russia instead. Very bad move.

Had the Minsk Accords and the Istanbul Agreement been honoured, Donbass would have remained part of Ukraine, albeit with autonomy governing language, religion etc.

In a little mitigation, Zelensky has been under pressure from the Nazi element within Western Ukrainian society. These openly display the Nazi salute and have tattoos of Hitler and the Waffen SS.

My late parents both served in WW2 against Nazism. I honour their memory by similarly opposing Nazism in Ukraine.

You won't find all that on the BBC.

However, in 2015 (following the coup of 2014), Consortium News reported: "The U.S. House of Representatives has admitted an ugly truth that the U.S. mainstream media has tried to hide from the American people that the post-coup regime in Ukraine has relied heavily on Nazi storm troopers to carry out its bloody war against ethnic Russians, reports Robert Parry."


https://consortiumnews.com/2015/06/12/u-s-house-admits-nazi-role-in-ukraine/   

That's all very interesting, but you asked for an instance of your friend Putin lying, you got it.

[Sir Tigger KC]

He said he wasn't going to invade Ukraine, that was a bit of a porky 

That's why he deliberately termed the incursion as a Special Military Operation

So you admit he is a liar then? 

[Migalot]

He said he wasn't going to invade Ukraine, that was a bit of a porky 

That's why he deliberately termed the incursion as a Special Military Operation

So you admit he is a liar then? 

Semantics.

An invasion supposes a complete intention to take over a country. This was an operation to expel the Ukrainian forces from the Donbass regions that had declared independence and had been recognised by the Russian parliament.

In any event, did either you or STEMO actually watch the whole interview?   

[Doctor Gollum]

Seems to me that all anyone had to do was pick up the phone.

[Migalot]

Seems to me that all anyone had to do was pick up the phone.

Agreed, but Zelensky has passed a Act in the Rada which literally prohibits any talks with Russia. As for a phone call between Biden and Putin, the former would probably think he was talking to the President of Mexico...      

[Migalot]

He said he wasn't going to invade Ukraine, that was a bit of a porky 

That's why he deliberately termed the incursion as a Special Military Operation

So you admit he is a liar then? 

Besides which, a lie is saying something that you KNOW not to be true. If I told you that I wouldn't be coming to your party (as if you'd invite me  ), but subsequently changed my mind and turned up, you wouldn't accuse me of lying earlier, would you?

[Sir Tigger KC]

He said he wasn't going to invade Ukraine, that was a bit of a porky 

That's why he deliberately termed the incursion as a Special Military Operation

So you admit he is a liar then? 

Semantics.

An invasion supposes a complete intention to take over a country. This was an operation to expel the Ukrainian forces from the Donbass regions that had declared independence and had been recognised by the Russian parliament.

If what you say is correct, why did they attack Kiev, which is nowhere near the Donbass at the start of the invasion? 

Why have they deliberately targeted civilian targets including blocks of flats and energy infrastructure all over Ukraine including Lviv in the West? 

Bucha? Irpin? Those places are not in the Donbass. 

The truth is that Putin planned to occupy the whole of Ukraine, but massively overestimated the Russian Army's capabilities, massively underestimated the Armed Forces of Ukraine and didn't count on the billions of dollars worth of modern weaponry and training provided by the West.

In any event, did either you or STEMO actually watch the whole interview?   

Yep and I wouldn't really call it an interview to be honest, more like a monologue with the occasional interjection from the cackling Carlson. 

Where were the searching questions about Bucha, Irpin, the sinking of the Moskva, the liberation of Kherson, the 300,000 young Russian men he's sent to their deaths, the targeting of civilians, the kidnapping of Ukrainian children etc etc 

We got a bizarre history lesson and Putin claiming that Russia is Europe's number one economy.... 

I did chuckle at Carlson's frequent WTF expression though. 

[Varche]

Defending the indefensible.

One mans personal totally unwarranted crusade is responsible for the direct deaths of a lot of people, untold misery and suffering in his motherland and that of Ukraine plus the impoverishment of millions of us in Europe oh and in Russia. That latter fact doesn’t  seem to be important and why would it in a state of mega rich Putin toe sucking oligarchs and the plebs. Spending something like 30% ofGDP on weaponry does not enhance Joseph Blogs situation one jot, just makes it worse.

Carlson was pathetic, that wasn’t journalism. Might as well have had Alexa doing the interview. It would have been cheaper too.

[STEMO]

He said he wasn't going to invade Ukraine, that was a bit of a porky 

That's why he deliberately termed the incursion as a Special Military Operation

So you admit he is a liar then? 

Semantics.

An invasion supposes a complete intention to take over a country. This was an operation to expel the Ukrainian forces from the Donbass regions that had declared independence and had been recognised by the Russian parliament.

In any event, did either you or STEMO actually watch the whole interview?

I didn't watch one minute of it, nor do I have any intention of. I don't see the point of even discussing the situation on a forum such as this, I merely demonstrated that Putin was a liar, hardly a revelation.
The course of events will not be influenced by sycophantic interviews or discussions on forums. Pointless, ill informed debate seems to be a late night topic both on tv and various social media channels but, in the end, if it goes off, we'll all burn together. In the meantime, I'll try to enjoy my day 

[Rangie]

He said he wasn't going to invade Ukraine, that was a bit of a porky 

That's why he deliberately termed the incursion as a Special Military Operation

So you admit he is a liar then? 

Semantics.

An invasion supposes a complete intention to take over a country. This was an operation to expel the Ukrainian forces from the Donbass regions that had declared independence and had been recognised by the Russian parliament.

In any event, did either you or STEMO actually watch the whole interview?

I didn't watch one minute of it, nor do I have any intention of. I don't see the point of even discussing the situation on a forum such as this, I merely demonstrated that Putin was a liar, hardly a revelation.
The course of events will not be influenced by sycophantic interviews or discussions on forums. Pointless, ill informed debate seems to be a late night topic both on tv and various social media channels but, in the end, if it goes off, we'll all burn together. In the meantime, I'll try to enjoy my day 

. 


Common sense seems to come through with folk our age Steve I'm with you 100 percent 👍

[Varche]

Enjoy the day ? 👍

Agreed. Today we are in Cartagena. Lots of Roman stuff to look at. Another castle off the 20,000 to go at. Might have a boat trip around the harbour ( Spanish Med naval base)  Monkfish, prawns and clam “ stew”  later. Nice sunny warm day

Nice day to vapourise!

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

This interview was more of a 'cosy chat' really, so therefore a missed opportunity.

Think Oprah and the interview with that Markle woman and the ginger prat.

[Olympia5776]

He said he wasn't going to invade Ukraine, that was a bit of a porky 

That's why he deliberately termed the incursion as a Special Military Operation, as he answered a request for help from the Russian-speaking populations of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts who had suffered 14,000 deaths from bombing by Kiev between 2014 and 2021.

Talking of lies, declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to given to Soviet leaders [following German reunification] from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner. That collective lie led to all this.

Oh, and the Minsk 1 and Minsk 2 Accords (which would have kept Ukraine intact) were guaranteed by France and Germany but they later admitted that they had no intention of honouring the Accords. So they effectively lied.

And, of course, following the initial incursion by 70,000 Russian troops, Ukraine initialed the Istanbul Agreement which, again, would have kept Ukraine intact. As part of that, Russia agreed as a goodwill gesture to withdraw troops from Kiev. Unfortunately, Johnson flew to Kiev and told Zelensky not to sign, but to fight Russia instead. Very bad move.

Had the Minsk Accords and the Istanbul Agreement been honoured, Donbass would have remained part of Ukraine, albeit with autonomy governing language, religion etc.

In a little mitigation, Zelensky has been under pressure from the Nazi element within Western Ukrainian society. These openly display the Nazi salute and have tattoos of Hitler and the Waffen SS.

My late parents both served in WW2 against Nazism. I honour their memory by similarly opposing Nazism in Ukraine.

You won't find all that on the BBC.

However, in 2015 (following the coup of 2014), Consortium News reported: "The U.S. House of Representatives has admitted an ugly truth that the U.S. mainstream media has tried to hide from the American people that the post-coup regime in Ukraine has relied heavily on Nazi storm troopers to carry out its bloody war against ethnic Russians, reports Robert Parry."


https://consortiumnews.com/2015/06/12/u-s-house-admits-nazi-role-in-ukraine/   

/\ /\ /\
This , Gentlemen, is a superb example of how a tyranical ,authoritarian administration successfully operates it's propaganda machine .
Single source deeply biased information spoon fed to a corraled , subservient and intimidated populace , who understand the consequences if they openly question what they have to believe .
It's nigh on impossible for us in the free West to understand the inward almost incestuous vision of those that has been implanted and then exploited by the russian elite for decades .
In some very slight way , I have sympathy for them because if you are spoon fed excreta every day steak may taste awful.
The author of this diatribe above is well known to the forum for his pro russian views and sympathies .
On at least two occasions he has proudly announced living with his russian wife and family surrounded by russian friends so his deeply flawed and frankly nausiating portrayel of the events surrounding putin's invasion of a sovereign state are quite understandable and traceable to their source(s) ......
I ceased engaging with him on this subject some time ago simply due to the fact that you will never persuade or convert  an indoctrinated fool with three paragraphs on an Internet forum.
In a perverse way  welcome his bizzare musings as it boosts my belief that russians are full of self importance , have a state cultivated arrogance in their perceived place in the civilised world and warmly envelope themselves in a slavish relationship with who ever holds the reigns of power in their deeply flawed and corrupt administration.
I often ponder if Jens Stolenburg said " Look , just stay within the confines of your sordid , primitive and unsophisticated country and clip your talons of covert involvement in Soverign states  and we will ignore you ." if it would in any slight way let them understand what we all really feel about them.
That stage managed "interview " was an affront to any person with the ability to listen , consider , fact check and conclude .

And yes , I did watch it .