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[feeutfo]

as some of you know i had some issues with  a set of falken 912s, car was impossible to drive straight and tramlined all over the place even when there where no tramlines present. Numreous set ups and all the usual parts changes made no odds, the only parts found to be faulty where rear donut bushes which failed the mot.

In the end i bit the bullet and fitted a set of conti sports contact 3's
and 95% of the issues vanished.There is some very slight pulling on the stearing wheel over tram lines and the rear still has a very slight wonder. But a lot better than the falkens.

 Anyway, my tyre fitter sent the old falkens off to be tested and today i received the report letter which says;

we can not find any evidence of manufacturing iregularity, and the condition revealed by our examination resulted from matters over which we have no controle, we regret we are unable to meet your claim

The above tyre shows clear evidence of having been used over-deflected.(over loaded 1,   underinflated 0%)

no idea what that means so i rang them, nice bloke at Dunlop/goodyear tecnical, basically means the side walls have been overloaded, to which i asked if the omega was too heavy for these tyres to which he replied, after taking details and doing some sums, no they are fine for your car...

how can this be? i asked,if i overloaded the car, which i havent, surely only 2 would show signs. I await a further fone call as he has gone to inspect them personally.....

[Kevin Wood]

Credit to them for responding at all, IMHO. They could have translated the answer out of internal jargon for you though. :-/

Will be interesting to see what happens next.

Kevin

[feeutfo]

Credit to them for responding at all, IMHO. They could have translated the answer out of internal jargon for you though. :-/

Will be interesting to see what happens next.

Kevin

suspect an independent exam by brma examiner, as set out in the letter.Trouble is if they find in thier favour it will be at my cost, or if at fault they will provide a replacement set and pay all fees.

if i want the tyres back i hve to pay a courier or they will be destroyed in 14 days. All seems designed to detur complaints, so nothing unusual i guess....

[Omegadoha, Desert Member]

Sounds like a standard response. Maybe the Omega is just not suited to them? Would be interesting to see how they perform on a different car.

[feeutfo]

seems strange to me tbh. Why admit there is a fault at all? By confirming an issue they give me reason to pursue it.

 I know there is nothing that i could have done to cause damage to all 4(8?) side walls. Which means the tyres must be faulty imho.

 If they cant cope with a slight camber issue or running slightly low psi, note they say they have not been underinflated, or some set up issue then..... surely thats not unreasonable for a tyre side wall to cope with?

I cant prove i didnt over load the car, and hence the tyres, but i know i didnt. If they found a fault, as they say they did, then its nout to do with me esp. one that they describe.

[feeutfo]

well, just got off the phone to Dunlop tech. and they have agreed to hold the tyres longer so i can make a decission.

Frankly, reguardless of the rights and wrongs of the situation, the odds of a positive outcome seems very remote. Not helped by the fact the tyres are near the end of the tread depth/life.

After talking to Peter at Dunlop the majority of the exam rests on the tread depth measured across the tyre as there are no structural problems with them. i.e. no miss layed belts or whatever. Also seems i have missunderstood the side wall issue as mentioned previously, as there is no fault found there.

So. Basically they are saying uneven wear, afaict at least. Peter mentioned the phrase"wear due to the way the tyres are presented to the road" which basically imply set up. Something i find hard to accept considering the work done and the number of times the car has been to wim and or micheledever.

I still maintain these tyres "tramline" all over the place, even when there are no wheel tracks in the road to tramline on. I guess the trouble is if they are up to spec and that spec has built in "instabillity", lets say, to give a certain feel in a corner, then yes there is nothing wrong with them from a manufacturing point of view. Still totally wrong from my point of view though, eeeyuk!

Anyway, question is. Independent exam at risk of cost to me if nothing wrong. Or leave it and put it down to experience? I am not hopefull of a positive outcome tbh.

 

[Kevin Wood]

Hmm.  :-/

Sounds to me like a hiding to nothing. Unless there's something fundamental that they are covering up which an independent might raise?

Any anomaly in the tread depth across the tyre could be blamed on under or over-inflation for the load and driving conditions, or suspension geometry, as you say. Almost impossible to pin anything there on the tyre, IMHO.

I think we're basically talking about a tyre design that, for whatever reason, doesn't suit the Omega's chassis. Chalk it up to experience and avoid like the plague in future, IMHO. Not much point in risking throwing more money at them.

Kevin

[Lazydocker]

As you say they were near the end of life, tread wise, I would just let it go and remember never to buy them again!

[feeutfo]

Hmm.  :-/

Sounds to me like a hiding to nothing. Unless there's something fundamental that they are covering up which an independent might raise?

Any anomaly in the tread depth across the tyre could be blamed on under or over-inflation for the load and driving conditions, or suspension geometry, as you say. Almost impossible to pin anything there on the tyre, IMHO.

I think we're basically talking about a tyre design that, for whatever reason, doesn't suit the Omega's chassis. Chalk it up to experience and avoid like the plague in future, IMHO. Not much point in risking throwing more money at them.

Kevin

Hmmm, annoying. But i think your right. Trading standards mention "fit for purpose" and all that. Short of fitting another new set of 912's and having the symptoms re appear over the current sc3,s fitted now, it seems impossible to prove an issue.

Interesting you mention a tyre design not suited to the Omega. I was looking up the correct load index for the Omega in the owners manual, to check the 912s where correct for the car, which they where. 94 iirc. And stumbled across a page that states, "not all tyres are suitable for the Omega"!
Page 126 if i recal.

Great help that(not). Esp as it makes no mention of which tyres are or are not appropriate. Although i have a firm idea on the later! But what is it about a tyre construction that makes it suitable or otherwise for one vehicle over another. Price it seems is one factor. I bet the suitable tyres are top end.

[bob.dent]

As you well know Chris, I had the same issues with Falken FK512's when I had them on the front - tramlined and bump steered badly despite WIM setup's. After changing to Bridgestone Potenza SO2's it was 95% better. Still get slight tramlining on some roads but Tony at WIM tells me that's due to the width of tyre's I have fitted.

[Kevin Wood]

Well, the line that trading standards would take is that they are round, rubber and airtight and the correct size, so of course they are suitable!

We are talking a degree of additional scrutiny that most users would probably not bother with, IMHO.

As to what makes them unsuitable, on the face of it, they should be fine, but I would imagine there's something about the dynamic behaviour of the Omega's suspension that doesn't sit well with that particular tyre's tread pattern or sidewall rigidity.

In other words, the combination of the tyre and suspension are generating lateral forces out of a "normal" undulation of the road surface.

Kevin

[feeutfo]

As you well know Chris, I had the same issues with Falken FK512's when I had them on the front - tramlined and bump steered badly despite WIM setup's. After changing to Bridgestone Potenza SO2's it was 95% better. Still get slight tramlining on some roads but Tony at WIM tells me that's due to the width of tyre's I have fitted.

Thanks for reminding me Bob. Yes, you did mention it. Definately sounds like an "avoid" situation.
 I was trying to recal other members, who had them fitted, to Peter at Dunlop.

I mentioned this site to him and he said he would have a brouse and that i should mention the tech line phone number (01902 453097) as its open to all, not just the trade, they like a chat. Maybe i should ask him more questions.

As a general thought,  I wonder if they have open days etc. The address is wolverhampton which i presume could be fort Dunlop? Is that where the motor sport arm is based?

[feeutfo]

Well, the line that trading standards would take is that they are round, rubber and airtight and the correct size, so of course they are suitable!

We are talking a degree of additional scrutiny that most users would probably not bother with, IMHO.

As to what makes them unsuitable, on the face of it, they should be fine, but I would imagine there's something about the dynamic behaviour of the Omega's suspension that doesn't sit well with that particular tyre's tread pattern or sidewall rigidity.

In other words, the combination of the tyre and suspension are generating lateral forces out of a "normal" undulation of the road surface.

Kevin

Sidewalls had a marked differance in rigidity when compared to a set of Dunlop sport maxx 2s that wim had lying around. I noticed those as i know you had them fitted when i drove your car, and how perfectly straight it road the bumps. They where lower profile, 35 or 40mm, but the Dunlops where almost solid in the side wall. Falkens had a very soft point where the tread meats the sidewall. Alarmingly soft imho. Felt almost paper thin. Shame wim didnt have a set the same 17inch 235 45 size for a direct comparison/grope test, as i guess the lower profile would be firmer anyway?
I personally suspect sidewall construction is key to this symptom.

[feeutfo]

i guess the problem i'm having is beleiving i tyre could make a car handel so badly, and still be withing the manufacturers spec....

 They have other good points but this issue, to me, is safety related.

[TheBoy]

I'd just walk away, never use those tyres again.  Some tyres simply don't seem to suit some cars. Some tyres REALLY suit some cars (as in the P6000s on the Rover).

There is no way I would have tolerated your car is Asheridge meet is the norm, but then I may make heavier demands on tyres than some people.  :-/