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[78bex]

Seems to be suggesting the JLR Ingenium engine isn`t reliable 

 video runs thru some common problems & at the end sums up with his opinion on petrol versus diesel Evoque

  https://youtu.be/qsbvIBKwUPk?si=ZbuHwL005Ecw0XHv&t=1370

[TheBoy]

CBA to look at vid, but there is an awful lot of BS about the Ingenium 4 pot.

Yes, like any modern EU6 diesel, there are a bucket load of emissions crap bolted to it, to appease the misinformed tree huggers, such as DPFs, SEC, EGR(s), electronically controlled flows on the water pump, stop/start blah blah blah

The Achilles heel with the soot chucker is stated as being the chains.  I'd counter argue that, and say the achilles heel is stupid service intervals of (in the UK market) 21,000 miles.  Nobody makes an oil that hasn't significantly broken down enough to lose its properties beyond 7k, and on diesels you have the added fun of diesel particulates (which makes the oil go black so quickly).  Given virtually all diesels are turbocharged, and turbos need good oil, any owner would be a bit soften in the head to let the oil run for that long for feel of shagging the turbo.

Given that this engine is also chain driven, all those particulates, which is like microscopic grit, aren't going to do chains any favours either.  As with any chain driven engine (and elastic band driven engines that use wet belts, like Ford), long service intervals are a sure way to increase wear.


Now there are some idiotic designs on it, like the chains being fitted at the back of the engine, which is a brilliant idea if you need to replace the chains regularly due to the marketeers winning the service interval battle. NOT.

There are also some designs on it that confuddle the usual "mechanics", like active engine mounts, and positive crankcase pressure.

Like any new engine, its been revised to overcome its issues.  I think the biggest is a revised chain/tensioner setup that became standard from around 2018ish? (sure DTM can confirm exactly when), and this is the setup you want to swap over to if ever you do need to replace the chains or tensioners.


As an owner of a very early, 130k example that looks to have been serviced by independent garages but to JLR intervals, I think its not a bad engine.  Mostly easy to work on (chains aside!), very drivable, and stupidly economical - even I'm knocking on the door of 70mpg when I drive it into the office in Brumingham.


Back to Youtube. Most "creators" on Youtube are just saying stuff to try to make their videos get viewed.  Controversy is always a good way, particularly if you can get forums or social media to make it go viral.  Its all money for the "creators".  I can guarantee you they have turned on monetisation on the channel .  And everyone loves to hate JLR, as can be seen from millions of Range Rover insurance youtube videos.  And don't even get me started on the wankstain Geoff Buys Cars - I can only assume his father abused him as a child...

[TheBoy]

As an owner of a very early, 130k example that looks to have been serviced by independent garages but to JLR intervals

I should add, its on its original chains as well.

[Rangie]

Loads of info on this on LR forums some love them & some hate them, " you pays your money & take your choice" and then pray luck is on your side..

[TheBoy]

Loads of info on this on LR forums some love them & some hate them, " you pays your money & take your choice" and then pray luck is on your side..

Plenty on all the Jaguar forums as well, with all sorts of rash comments like guarantees it won't last 80k miles.  Mind you, my car is the V6 diesel, and I'm apparently guaranteed a snapped crank before 100k....    ....so I assumed it must have snapped about 60k ago, and I've not noticed

[Doctor Gollum]

Loads of info on this on LR forums some love them & some hate them, " you pays your money & take your choice" and then pray luck is on your side..

Plenty on all the Jaguar forums as well, with all sorts of rash comments like guarantees it won't last 80k miles.  Mind you, my car is the V6 diesel, and I'm apparently guaranteed a snapped crank before 100k....    ....so I assumed it must have snapped about 60k ago, and I've not noticed

That might explain why it's always broken

Personally, I would never buy an engine with rear mounted chains as that such a retarded design. Fortunately, I am unlikely to ever buy a JLR or VAG product, it's unlikely to be much of an issue .

I know Mercedes engines have their issues, but at least the parts that have the majority of the problems are accessible.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Loads of info on this on LR forums some love them & some hate them, " you pays your money & take your choice" and then pray luck is on your side..

Plenty on all the Jaguar forums as well, with all sorts of rash comments like guarantees it won't last 80k miles.  Mind you, my car is the V6 diesel, and I'm apparently guaranteed a snapped crank before 100k....    ....so I assumed it must have snapped about 60k ago, and I've not noticed

That might explain why it's always broken

Personally, I would never buy an engine with rear mounted chains as that such a retarded design. Fortunately, I am unlikely to ever buy a JLR or VAG product, it's unlikely to be much of an issue .

I know Mercedes engines have their issues, but at least the parts that have the majority of the problems are accessible.

That rules you out of certain Merc and BMW engines also then 

[Doctor Gollum]

Loads of info on this on LR forums some love them & some hate them, " you pays your money & take your choice" and then pray luck is on your side..

Plenty on all the Jaguar forums as well, with all sorts of rash comments like guarantees it won't last 80k miles.  Mind you, my car is the V6 diesel, and I'm apparently guaranteed a snapped crank before 100k....    ....so I assumed it must have snapped about 60k ago, and I've not noticed

That might explain why it's always broken

Personally, I would never buy an engine with rear mounted chains as that such a retarded design. Fortunately, I am unlikely to ever buy a JLR or VAG product, it's unlikely to be much of an issue .

I know Mercedes engines have their issues, but at least the parts that have the majority of the problems are accessible.

That rules you out of certain Merc and BMW engines also then 

Probably. But as those are likely to be the newer cross brand offerings, they're unlikely to be fitted to anything of interest.

[Nick W]

And we still hear that Germans don't have a sense of humour. Who else would consider putting an inadequate chain, running on shitty plastic guides, poorly fed with dirty oil, at the back of the engine a good idea?


Unfortunately, every other engineer who can't resist complications has decided to join in the fun.


I dropped several BMWs with timing chain issues at the dealer just around the corner from that independent, and the yardman tried to keep a space in the car park for them. That space was under the sign with the then current slogan  BMW, the value of perfect engineering. It's difficult to see the value in common, severe failures on engines with <10,000 miles. As for Mercedes, that was the dealer we all went to the most.

[Viral_Jim]

Personally, I would never buy an engine with rear mounted chains as that such a retarded design. Fortunately, I am unlikely to ever buy a JLR or VAG product, it's unlikely to be much of an issue .

Don't forget BMW, they were also represented on the committee of window-lickers that decided the timing chain should be installed next to the driver's knees.

[STEMO]

You don't have to go upmarket to get chain driven diesels, with the chain mounted at the rear of the engine, my Astra is the same. Each engine has its own problems. The Astra 1.6 diesel 'whisper' engine rattles like a bastard just after startup, due to the bottom(plastic) timing chain guide having disintegrated, causing the chain to run metal on metal until the hydraulic tensioner takes up the slack. A repair is an engine out job.





Later Vauxhalls also have a wet belt which can disintegrate very quickly so, again, the problem is everywhere, not just on certain engines.

https://www.grandlandforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1063

[Doctor Gollum]

Personally, I would never buy an engine with rear mounted chains as that such a retarded design. Fortunately, I am unlikely to ever buy a JLR or VAG product, it's unlikely to be much of an issue .

Don't forget BMW, they were also represented on the committee of window-lickers that decided the timing chain should be installed next to the driver's knees.

Not really on my list either as anything of interest is likely to be Omega aged 

[Viral_Jim]

Later Vauxhalls also have a wet belt which can disintegrate very quickly so, again, the problem is everywhere, not just on certain engines.

https://www.grandlandforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1063

I hadn't heard about the idea of wet belts until reading this thread, not really sure why you'd want one - maybe someone who knows could explain? Also, I know its a one-off but I'd be pi$$ed off if  my 2018 car lunched itself after only 40k miles. 

[Doctor Gollum]

Presumably a similar notion to a wet clutch, although the idea of soaking a rubber band, synthetic or otherwise, in engine oil does seem to be asking for premature failure...

[TheBoy]

Presumably a similar notion to a wet clutch, although the idea of soaking a rubber band, synthetic or otherwise, in engine oil does seem to be asking for premature failure...

And even if the belt survives, the debris off the belt will block all oilways around the rest of the engine...

[Raeturbo]

What the hell ever happened to proper duplex chains?

[Rangie]

Out of the 40+ vehicles I've owned the only ones I've had absolutely no problems with are the 2001 2.6 Omega & the two Subaru Foresters we've had ( still got one). The Omega covered around 45,000 miles in the  6 years I owned it only required annual service, including timing belt, the first Subaru 70,000 miles totally trouble free & the present one a 2005 on 57,000 miles totally original nil repairs only annual servicing. The more I hear about new cars the less I think about getting one.

[TheBoy]

The more I hear about new cars the less I think about getting one.

How much of that is actually due to genuine unreliability, and how much is due to perceptions generated on and via social media?

After all, you currently drive what is perceived to be one of the most unreliable cars in the world, and the only uninsurable car in the country, but its been reasonably trouble free?

I (well, she) drive one of these 2l diesel Ingeniums, and engine related problems so far consists of having to replace an EGR filter when we bought it - easy enough job, apart from I managed to shear a bolt.  I've had to replace a glow plug as well, but consider that a service item.  TBH, the EGR filters are service items as well IMHO.  Yet I'm told the reliability of this engine makes the Range Rover look like a Toyota


Although I agree that the amount of emission bolt ons on all, but especially diesel, modern engines is never going to help with reliability of anything, not will it help much with overall emissions, but it keeps the misinformed idiots happy...

[Rangie]

No I've been pretty fortunate with the RR so far & try to keep on top of any problems asap, I've been advised to replace the suspension compressor as its thrown up a couple of faults recently & is getting sluggish in operation, according to the service history it was replaced a few years ago so that's booked in at the beginning of April before I start towing the caravan.

[TheBoy]

No I've been pretty fortunate with the RR so far & try to keep on top of any problems asap, I've been advised to replace the suspension compressor as its thrown up a couple of faults recently & is getting sluggish in operation, according to the service history it was replaced a few years ago so that's booked in at the beginning of April before I start towing the caravan.

Yup, get it done.  Not sure if its worth checking for leaks in pipework before replacing compressor, depending what the actual codes are?

[Rangie]

No I've been pretty fortunate with the RR so far & try to keep on top of any problems asap, I've been advised to replace the suspension compressor as its thrown up a couple of faults recently & is getting sluggish in operation, according to the service history it was replaced a few years ago so that's booked in at the beginning of April before I start towing the caravan.

Yup, get it done.  Not sure if its worth checking for leaks in pipework before replacing compressor, depending what the actual codes are?

.

He checked the codes when it was last in for the new brake pipes, definitely compressor bags + pipes all okay at the moment but you know as well as I do once you've replaced one part chances are something else will go " on the blink" best bit of advice I was given by my farmer mate whose run RRs for years is keep a slush fund of around £3,000 always available 👍

[Viral_Jim]

When you get it done, it may be worth requesting the old compressor back and rebuilding it. It's normally the little piston rings (plastic) which wear and cause sub par performance.

The rebuild kits are very cheap and you have a spare in case it decides to give up at an inconvenient moment (just pulling off a caravan site springs to mind). Swapping them over is a quick and easy job.

My parents ran P38 range rivers for over a decade and my dad always kept a rebuilt spare as a just in case. Came in handy a couple of times as their place was miles from civilization.

[henryd]

No I've been pretty fortunate with the RR so far & try to keep on top of any problems asap, I've been advised to replace the suspension compressor as its thrown up a couple of faults recently & is getting sluggish in operation, according to the service history it was replaced a few years ago so that's booked in at the beginning of April before I start towing the caravan.

Ask whoever is doing it to check the air reservoir as they seem to rot out and leak,seen two or three do this in the last year or so