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[johnnydog]

The central locking including the boot release on my 2002 3.2 elite is currently inoperative using either key fob.
It starts with both keys, but when trying to lock it or open the boot with either key, nothing. It will lock and deadlock using the key in the drivers door, and then sets the alarm correctly (the flashes on the centre console display), and then the alarm sounds when unlocking it using the key until the engine is started. I have had both keys checked - the usual key I use is sending out a signal on all buttons (although the led doesn't illuminate on the fob); the spare is not sending any signal out when any button is pressed but the led on this fob illuminates. They both have new batteries, and the resyncing procedure hasnt done anything.
The boot releases using the interior button, and the central locking operates when locking the car using the drivers door button manually via the back door, and then unlocks ok using the key in the door lock. The powersounder battery is brand new and has eliminated the periodic middle of the night alarm activations and chirpping, but prior to it being replaced, the car could be locked using the key remote. How long the key has actally been inoperative, I'm not certain because I usually leave it unlocked at home when not in use to reduce battery drain down.
A car locksmith checked for fault codes with the following showing - trunk sw, code 32.
With electricals not being my 'chosen subject', has anyone ever had this issue, or may possibly be able to give me any pointers? I've tried to give as much info as I can to assist you more 'knowledgables'...
TIA

[TheBoy]

So the remote fob is not working at all?

If so, check the battery holder connections to the PCB - a weak point on these if people are heavy handed replacing batteries.

[johnnydog]

The main fob I had been using has been tested and although the led light on it doesn't illuminate, it is sending a signal out from all buttons; the led on the 'spare' fob illuminates, but the fob is 'dead' and is not sending out any signal from any buttons. Does this make sense? Both start the car. The fob batteries are new on both.

[Nick W]

The main fob I had been using has been tested and although the led light on it doesn't illuminate, it is sending a signal out from all buttons; the led on the 'spare' fob illuminates, but the fob is 'dead' and is not sending out any signal from any buttons. Does this make sense? Both start the car. The fob batteries are new on both.

You're mixing up the three separate parts of the key: the remote which operates the central locking and the alarm and is reliant on the battery; the key which operates all the lock barrels, but is normally only used to turn the ignition lock; and the immobiliser chip which is hidden inside the remote body and works on PFM.


Checking the battery holder inside the remote is the first place to check a poorly performing fob.

[Doctor Gollum]

They will start the car as long as the transponder recognises the totally unrelated chip in each key. 

[johnnydog]

The main fob I had been using has been tested and although the led light on it doesn't illuminate, it is sending a signal out from all buttons; the led on the 'spare' fob illuminates, but the fob is 'dead' and is not sending out any signal from any buttons. Does this make sense? Both start the car. The fob batteries are new on both.

You're mixing up the three separate parts of the key: the remote which operates the central locking and the alarm and is reliant on the battery; the key which operates all the lock barrels, but is normally only used to turn the ignition lock; and the immobiliser chip which is hidden inside the remote body and works on PFM.


Checking the battery holder inside the remote is the first place to check a poorly performing fob.

Fair enough, I see your point - I gave the details of everything that the fob and key was or wasn't doing to try and give a clearer picture....obviously it didn't......!

Ok, so the central locking isn't operating using the normal key fob I use remotely. It has been tested by a car key locksmith, and a signal is being transmitted by each button, but this signal is not being picked by whatever receives it in the car to operate the central locking to both unlock and lock it. The boot release button on the fob is sending a signal apparently, but not actually operating the boot release.
Their code reader and key programmer read fault code 32 described as 'trunk sw'.
Using the key manually everything works as it should - it's just the remote side of it that isn't.
If it is transmitting a signal on all buttons, doesn't that mean the battery holder is functioning correctly?
Any thoughts?

[Doctor Gollum]

You haven't managed to swap the fobs during a mass battery replacement session?

If any of your other Omega fobs lock/unlock it then you'll have found the culprit.

[johnnydog]

This is what I said right at the beginning......neither fob locks / unlocks  the car remotely. The 'main' fob is still sending out signals whilst my 'spare' isn't. They couldn't have been confused though during the battery replacement as they have totally different tags on them which were left on, along with spare swan neck towbar keys etc.
I am at a bit of loss as why the signal being transmitted should suddenly stop being picked up by the reciever end of the car?

[Doctor Gollum]

TVP dumped two perfectly good V70s because neither would start... Originally in the workshops for completely unrelated issues and suddenly wouldn't start.

Turned out the keys were swapped by accident.

So don't rule out the stupidly unlikely just because you don't believe that you could do it... Someone else may have.

[TheBoy]

As Nick W explained, the fact that the mechanical key works, and the car starts are nothing to do with the remote locking/unlocking.

The immobiliser chip is the tiny plastic oblong glued into the U shaped piece of the key, and not part of the fob that detaches to change battery (on post 1998 cars).

So it sounds to me like the fob(s) just aren't working, but everything else is.


The fault code is a red herring.  I'm going to assume the car has an alarm, as only cars equipped with ATWS have a fault code 32 - standard Central Locking only ones do not.  On ATWS equipped cars, fault code 32 is inclination sensor malfunction.


Now, I'm making the assumption* that the fobs used to fully work, and nobody has been doing any programming on the system.

I'm also making the assumption** that attempts to synchronise the key have been successful (indicated by the lock/unlock action during the procedure).

So we're back to the original checks of ensuring the battery holder is secure and making good electrical contact with the PCB



*If that assumption is incorrect, then the fobs need to be of the correct type, and programmed correctly to the car using a Tech2.

** If that assumption is incorrect, then try the resin procedure. If that fails, the fob either isn't working, or has not been programmed to the car.

[cam.in.head]

also whilst you are examining the fob battery holder for bad connections it is worth trying different batteries. (or original)just because they are new doesnt always guarantee they are perfect.
im assuming both fobs used to work and did they (or main one) work up to battery replacement ?
also but sorry to insult your intelligence and not sure if it would even work but can the batterybe fitted upside down ?( silly question i know !)
then follow usual resyncing process.

[johnnydog]

TVP dumped two perfectly good V70s because neither would start... Originally in the workshops for completely unrelated issues and suddenly wouldn't start.

Turned out the keys were swapped by accident.

So don't rule out the stupidly unlikely just because you don't believe that you could do it... Someone else may have.

Definately / 100% not the case.....there is no rhyme or reason that could have happened.....

also whilst you are examining the fob battery holder for bad connections it is worth trying different batteries. (or original)just because they are new doesnt always guarantee they are perfect.
im assuming both fobs used to work and did they (or main one) work up to battery replacement ?
also but sorry to insult your intelligence and not sure if it would even work but can the batterybe fitted upside down ?( silly question i know !)
then follow usual resyncing process.

I've replaced the replacement batteries for that reason, and they are the correct way round. Because the main fob stopped working for no reason lead me to first suspect the battery.

As Nick W explained, the fact that the mechanical key works, and the car starts are nothing to do with the remote locking/unlocking.

The immobiliser chip is the tiny plastic oblong glued into the U shaped piece of the key, and not part of the fob that detaches to change battery (on post 1998 cars).

So it sounds to me like the fob(s) just aren't working, but everything else is.


The fault code is a red herring.  I'm going to assume the car has an alarm, as only cars equipped with ATWS have a fault code 32 - standard Central Locking only ones do not.  On ATWS equipped cars, fault code 32 is inclination sensor malfunction.


Now, I'm making the assumption* that the fobs used to fully work, and nobody has been doing any programming on the system.

I'm also making the assumption** that attempts to synchronise the key have been successful (indicated by the lock/unlock action during the procedure).

So we're back to the original checks of ensuring the battery holder is secure and making good electrical contact with the PCB



*If that assumption is incorrect, then the fobs need to be of the correct type, and programmed correctly to the car using a Tech2.

** If that assumption is incorrect, then try the resin procedure. If that fails, the fob either isn't working, or has not been programmed to the car.

Thanks for all the info. Just wondering about whether to get the existing keys properly refurbed or just bite the bullet with new key fobs (not cheap versions) and get them reprogrammed...

[TD]

Sounds liken the same fault my Mondeo had....

Remotes wont lock/unlock the doors but using the key does.
Unlock the drivers door with the key, then i had about 10 seconds to put the ignition on/start the car before the alarm went off.

Mine was diagnosed as a faulty control module inside the dashboard.
Cost of module was estimated at £600, then there was the cost of removing the dash to get to it and then replace the dash.

I replaced the batteries in the fobs but didnt make any difference!

I lived with the problem and then sold the car to a car dealer... i didnt have a guilty conscience ....

Might not be your problem....just it sounds a lot like the fault my Mondeo had....

[cam.in.head]

it does seem strange thou that two fobs for the car have now stopped working and wont resync.especially if the alarm / central locking is working ok manually.
if it were me i would try yet another battery of a totally different batch and 100% be sure all the board connections ( battery holder,switches are ok and that the switches are actually closing and opening )are good and try another resync.
for the minor hassle of resetting the electric windows and roof wont do any harm(or nothing at all !)to disconnect battery for a bit ?
mightbe worth for what it takes to make sure the alarm/central locking ecu is properly plugged in .

you say that the keys have been tested and are giving out a signal so cannot understand why they would loose their programm as such. maybee they can ? ?

sorry if im repeating the obvious or previous mentioned suggestions here .

[TheBoy]

TD - the control units in the Omega are generally rock solid for reliability, although that's no guarantee that its that.  On the Omega, the same control unit deals with central locking and opening the boot (on facelift saloons), so sounds like the unit has not failed completely, though may have developed a fault on the antenna side.

[johnnydog]

Thanks Chris - only one of the keys (the main key) is giving out a signal. The 'spare' isn't sending any signal at all apparantly.
Cheers TB; the antenna does seem plausible to check re the a sudden failure.
Could you tell me where the antenna is situated please?

I have an old 3 button base with a pcb from a previous 51 plate Omega Elite I had - it was replaced years ago with a new one by Vauxhall because the rubber edges had split by the key ring bar, but it was fully functional when replaced.
If it is on the same transmitting wavelength, with the transponder chip with horseshoe swapped over, would that work on this Omega, with or without re programming? to then eliminate other issues that have been suggested, such as the key itself?
Sorry for all the questions....

[TheBoy]

You only have the key cutters word that one fob is sending.  I'm dubious that the key cutter knew what he was doing, so not going to take that as a definite.

Have you checked the battery holder connections to the PCB on either fob yet?


As for the 3rd, old, fob, that depends entirely on whether or not the dealer erased the old fobs from the car.  The car allows up to 5 fobs to be programmed, so that might have left the old fob programmed.  Impossible to say without plugging a Tech2 into the car.


The antenna is built into the ATWS ECU.  Its part of the PCB.  The antenna itself won't have failed (its passive), but if the surrounding electronics have, then it could stop the receiving side working.  It would be a very rare fault, pretty much unheard of.  Due to the varnish added to that PCB, diagnosis and repair is difficult, and if it was that that was faulty, I'd suggest a good 2nd hand replacement with 2 programmed key fobs and a carpass.


*HOWEVER*, I cannot stress enough, I believe your problem is with your existing fobs and/or the associated programming (esp if that key cutter plugged anything into the car's diags port)

[johnnydog]

You only have the key cutters word that one fob is sending.  I'm dubious that the key cutter knew what he was doing, so not going to take that as a definite.

Have you checked the battery holder connections to the PCB on either fob yet?


As for the 3rd, old, fob, that depends entirely on whether or not the dealer erased the old fobs from the car.  The car allows up to 5 fobs to be programmed, so that might have left the old fob programmed.  Impossible to say without plugging a Tech2 into the car.


The antenna is built into the ATWS ECU.  Its part of the PCB.  The antenna itself won't have failed (its passive), but if the surrounding electronics have, then it could stop the receiving side working.  It would be a very rare fault, pretty much unheard of.  Due to the varnish added to that PCB, diagnosis and repair is difficult, and if it was that that was faulty, I'd suggest a good 2nd hand replacement with 2 programmed key fobs and a carpass.

*HOWEVER*, I cannot stress enough, I believe your problem is with your existing fobs and/or the associated programming (esp if that key cutter plugged anything into the car's diags port)

Cheers TB and Nick W - you were both correct in your diagnosis - tvm.
I decided to check the ATWS ECU / module (not that I really thought there was any issue with it following all the advice on here), but considering I had removed it last year when I had the water leak from the sunroof drains which had run down the A pillar into the footwell, and as the car had not been on the road since the leak was sorted until the beginning of November, I wasn't really sure when the remote had packed up. However, there was no signs of damp, water ingress or damage, and all connectors were secure, so it had to be the keys themselves.
I ended up speaking to an ex VX technician who is a 'whizz' with vehicle electrics (according to my local VX garage), and he quickly ascertained that the fault the simplest of issues - one was on the PCB of the fob that was not sending out a signal, and the other fob that was sending out a signal just wasn't sync'd to the car. User error on my behalf obviously - I hadn't been operating the lock / unlock buttons enough I'm told, so all is now well with a fully operational remote central locking. And the duff fob is being repaired - some soldering apparently, so all should be good.

The advice on here was good and accurate - thanks to all . Even though it was, in hindsight, a 'schoolboy error' on my part for not syncing the fob correctly. At least the first car locksmith got something right - that one was was not working.....

[johnnydog]

And the duff fob has now been repaired - a faulty resistor (?I think he said?) on the circuit board, so I now have two working fobs  Thanks for the suggestions by all

[TheBoy]

Glad its all sorted, and hopefully cheaply as well

[johnnydog]

Thanks, yes I was happy. No charge by the ex VX teccy (although I did give him some beer tokens), and £30 for the fob repair. So all in all, not bad I thought.....

[johnnydog]

More frustration - the key fob and car have been behaving themselves for a good number of weeks - locking / unlocking, boot release fully operational.....until today. Went to unlock the car with the fob - nothing. Unlocked manually with the key, no problem, and the car started fine. Wouldn't then lock with the fob. Tried the spare (which had been repaired last time, and was working fine afterwards), and nothing - also wouldn't lock or unlock the car, or operate the boot release, but would start the car.
What would cause the keys to loose communication with the car, when working fine a few days ago?

[Doctor Gollum]

Interference from an external source.

As an example, certain stray 5g waves can interfere with completely different frequency bands...

Really long link thing

[johnnydog]

Yet my other 2.6 Omega has been parked next to it all this time and it unlocks / locks remotely with the fob as normal.....?

[TheBoy]

Is one key "cloned" off the other - many locksmiths do this, and it doesn't work for long with systems that use a rolling code (virtually everything).


If not, back to basics.
Are you able to resync either fob that was previously working?

If yes, see how long it works after resync - if it does it again, likely that the fob needs repair (properly)

If no, its likely the fob needs repair (properly)


Whilst not impossible, its very, very rare for the ATWS/CL ecu to fail. Very rare.

[TheBoy]

Interference from an external source.

As an example, certain stray 5g waves can interfere with completely different frequency bands...

Really long link thing

433MHz isn't really going to be impacted by "5G" (Boeing and Airbus are really only concerned about the sub 800MHz frequencies), as it wont be on a harmonic.

The 5G hysteria is a bit of a joke anyway, as those sub 800MHz frequencies were the same ones being pumped out at 100kW by any TV transmitter until recently.  Though, obviously, we know 5G controls the nanobots that the government are pumping into our arms, hence the constant spate of people setting fire to 3 and 4G cell towers....

[Doctor Gollum]

Interference from an external source.

As an example, certain stray 5g waves can interfere with completely different frequency bands...

Really long link thing

433MHz isn't really going to be impacted by "5G" (Boeing and Airbus are really only concerned about the sub 800MHz frequencies), as it wont be on a harmonic.

The 5G hysteria is a bit of a joke anyway, as those sub 800MHz frequencies were the same ones being pumped out at 100kW by any TV transmitter until recently.  Though, obviously, we know 5G controls the nanobots that the government are pumping into our arms, hence the constant spate of people setting fire to 3 and 4G cell towers....

It was a real world EXAMPLE of cross frequency interference rather than an sole cause of the key fob problem... Volvo S/V40 key fobs used to be really good a stomping over Omega remote frequencies.

As to 5G, An informed, professional look at the subject 

[johnnydog]

Is one key "cloned" off the other - many locksmiths do this, and it doesn't work for long with systems that use a rolling code (virtually everything).


If not, back to basics.
Are you able to resync either fob that was previously working?

If yes, see how long it works after resync - if it does it again, likely that the fob needs repair (properly)

If no, its likely the fob needs repair (properly)


Whilst not impossible, its very, very rare for the ATWS/CL ecu to fail. Very rare.

Thanks for this info. I'll try a re-sycn, and speak to the place that sorted the key fobs to see how they programmed them or they did 'clone' one key off the other.
Is it possible to reprogramme an existing circuit board in a used fob from another car, as long as you have the pass for the current car, and the fob is on the same 433 frequency?

[TheBoy]

It was a real world EXAMPLE of cross frequency interference rather than an sole cause of the key fob problem... Volvo S/V40 key fobs used to be really good a stomping over Omega remote frequencies.

As to 5G, An informed, professional look at the subject 

Anything on 433MHz will interfere, as will anything where 433 is a harmonic.  Most 433MHz are a short duration transmission, hence unlikely to cause issues.  Its not like you are allowed to use 433MHz for a wireless cctv camera, for example.

Most EU cars use 433, and we never see interference issue

[Doctor Gollum]

Never is a stretch. 

[johnnydog]

Sorry to resurrect this......both my keys worked for a short while after my last post, but then they both packed up within a matter of a week or so - wouldn't unlock / lock the car or operate the boot release. The car was off the road for most of last year, and whenever I've used it since, I've locked it through the drivers door, which has done my nut in.....

Laterly, the interior light has been staying on when the doors have been shut (although the puddle lights have timed out), which kicked started me into sorting out the gremlins again.
cam.in.head has given me some helpful pointers regarding the interior light issue (cheers Chris), but I decided to try and sort the c/locking issue whilst in the drivers kick panel area.

I decided to remove the anti theft / central locking ecu from an identical breaker (age, engine and spec) having first checked that it operated the doors etc from the key for that car. Amazed that I have been pilfering it for parts for probably 12 years, with a new fob battery, it locked and unlocked all doors etc perfectly. I then removed the ATWS ECU and fitted it to the problem car, and bingo, it locked / unlocked all doors with the fob (had to replace a lazy passenger door c/l motor, but the least of my worries) and it also popped the boot perfectly.
I intend to get the original keys checked again by a different place, along with the original ECU.
Am I right in assuming that I can instead use this apparently good ATWS ECU in the problem car, with the 3 button part of the key fobs, with the horseshoe / blade and transponder chip from the problem car as one unit, as I understand from the previous posts, the button part of the fob just operates the ATWS and the c/locking etc, and the transponder chip speaks the engine ECU for engine starting, just to keep one key to operate everything?

Sorry to drag this up again...

[cam.in.head]

yes the key physically turns the locks it is cut for, the little removeable chip operates the immobiliser ring and the ( detacheable) section with the buttons works with the alarm/cl ecu it is programmed to .  all 3 completely isolated systems of the car .

[johnnydog]

Thanks very much again Chris!

[TheBoy]

If you use the donor ATWS with the donor fobs, but use the original key blade and transponder from your car, you ill have no issues*


*unless you need new fobs programmed to the car, as they will need the PIN security code from the donor car.  Programming new transponders will still use the PIN security code from your car.

[Doctor Gollum]

Car pass from donor car will take care of that, but belts and braces would be V5, VIN and Registration number as well.

If the car is still in your possession that will make it alot easier to obtain the car pass.

[johnnydog]

That's OK then thanks. Got the car passes for both cars, so hopefully that side of things sorted if needed.
Is there a remote (no pun intended!) possibility that the ECU is the problem - just can't see that both keys fobs would loose communication with it, on such a frequent basis..... It did have quite a bit of water getting in around that area down the A pillar under the trim from the leak on the sunroof drain a couple of years ago. I've opened the ECU up, and there's no obvious signs of an issue.
Hopefully getting the keys checked this afternoon

[cam.in.head]

so if im reading this correctly ....... you have now fitted a cl ecu from a donor car and all the central locking now works fine ? ( using your original 'keys' and the new donor push button sections .
if this is correct then obviously it sounds like there was a fault in the original unit . so realy that means " job done / cl fixed . presume you just want the original fixed as a spare ?

[TheBoy]

That's OK then thanks. Got the car passes for both cars, so hopefully that side of things sorted if needed.
Is there a remote (no pun intended!) possibility that the ECU is the problem - just can't see that both keys fobs would loose communication with it, on such a frequent basis..... It did have quite a bit of water getting in around that area down the A pillar under the trim from the leak on the sunroof drain a couple of years ago. I've opened the ECU up, and there's no obvious signs of an issue.
Hopefully getting the keys checked this afternoon

I'd say 50:50 TBH.  The FL keys fail with frightening regularity. They are shite!

I've seen the ATWS fail, usually due to water ingress, but nowhere near as common.  The fact both keys failed simultaneously is the only think that makes this a possibility TBH.

[TheBoy]

Oh, and the amount of varnish applied to the PCB on the ATWS makes repair probably not worth it.  Esp as you have a working donor, and the codes from that donor

[johnnydog]

Well, I had both keys from the problem car checked in front of my own eyes - both keys transmitted a signal from all 3 buttons.
Which led me to think that the original ECU may have actually been affected by water ingress (possibly?). Perhaps a gluten for punishment, but I decided to throughly but gently clean all the contacts for the connector block on the 'problem' ecu. Refitted it, and hey presto, the c/locking worked with both original keys as did the boot release. Tried it umpteen times and all was well. Even the interior light behaved itself and went out as it should
Cracked it I thought. Although the c/l was working ok, unfortunately, the interior light issue came back and refused to go out, and then the alarm decided to keep going off, and even disconnecting the battery within the 15 secs after switching the ignition off, refused to silence it. After approx an hour of alarm activations, it just stopped, but the interior light refused to go out. It eventually did after about a further hour, but after another 15 mins or so came back on without me even going near it   It the went out again  and as I write this is stil out....
I think the next thing is to put the c/l  ecu from the donor car back in, and see if the interior light and alarm gremlins come back. If not, then the original ECU must be faulty - surely (?) - if they continue, I'll have to look elsewhere.....but where?
I was just curious really when the keys found to be working ok, whether the original ecu would work too.....
To be continued..

[TheBoy]

I agree, put donor one back in, and keep it in for a considerable period (months), and if it doesn't cause issues, keep it in.

Generally when a circuit board has suffered water ingress, you can't just dry it.

[johnnydog]

Thanks TB. I'll post how I go on...