Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: R-vin on 22 October 2014, 22:02:09
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hi guys,
i have a C30NE engine (12V) and i would like to clarify the correct timing of this engine, should the crank rotation sensor should line up with the region of the crank pully (that has the gear like notches) where it is missing a notch, ie a space where there should have been 2 notches/ teeth, and #1 piston at TDC and the distributor rotor has a notch on the tip of the rotor should line up with a notch on the distributor housing in the region of #1 cylinder spark plug wire.
currently the crank rotation sensor lines up with the crank pully (region that misses a notch) when the distributor rotor points to # 5 cylinder spark plug wire... the engine starts and runs (easy for a Motronic 1.5 system that pulses the injectors in banks: 1+2+3 together then 4+5+6 together and the coil sends the spark respective of engine RPM which the rotor directs to the appropriate spark plug... when revved, it revvs well, but when held at a constant revv above idle, there is a serious missfire problem with rather frequent exhaust backfires, the oxygen sensor signal fluctuates from 0.18V to 0.89 V, the engine idles smoothly, spark plugs were checked for spark (injectors unclipped, plugs put onto plug wires and the engine cranked), plugs cleaned with carb cleaner and gap set to 0.035" and reinstalled), fuel pressure was not checked (awaiting delivery of a fuel pressure testing kit), though has battery voltage at the pump +ve terminal
does any one have access to a workshop manual on setting the timing correctly???
regards
R-vin
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Unfortunately the Omega B doesn't use a straight 6 like your Omega A (called a Carlton over here) ......
I'll try to dig my Carlton/Senator Haynes manual out for you, ;)
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Unfortunately the Omega B doesn't use a straight 6 like your Omega A (called a Carlton over here) ......
I'll try to dig my Carlton/Senator Haynes manual out for you, ;)
I had a look for mine, and for some reason, she thought it would be better off at a Car Boot Sale a couple of years ago.
I'll admit, I've not needed it for those couple of years, but.... when you need it, it's gone. For 20p, probably. >:(
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try vodc site or total carlton site. :y
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The first part you described regarding,distributor and the notches is correct,crank should be at tdc, the cam pulley has a dot which lines up with splash guard, could be 180• out.
All this is from memory,so please check first :)
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Unfortunately the Omega B doesn't use a straight 6 like your Omega A (called a Carlton over here) ......
I'll try to dig my Carlton/Senator Haynes manual out for you, ;)
I had a look for mine, and for some reason, she thought it would be better off at a Car Boot Sale a couple of years ago.
I'll admit, I've not needed it for those couple of years, but.... when you need it, it's gone. For 20p, probably. >:(
hey, these things happen, and a fact about life :'(, when you actually need something, its gone..... for the brasil market, not many Ω were sold, mainly being because of the cost>>> mostly upper class purchases, when the internet became well known here and the population realises that everything is outdated by 10 to 20 years, these Ω went up for sale for market value, middle and lower class made purchases of these used cars, most fell by the way side, crashed, siezed in police road blocks (unpaid fines), the real killer was lack of trained mechanics to perform repairs on these cars (compared to the popular VW beatle) ???,
i was lucky to find an Ω / carlton estate in good appearance, but soon i realised it lacked maintenance because the previous owner was afraid to take it to any garage because of the mechanics... i`m sure the engine timing i currently have is because of one of these mechanics >:(..... luckly the BOSCH Motronic 1.5 is not a modern EFI system that pulses the injectors in the firing order sequence, hence the engine starts and runs, idles smoothly.....
i`ll hold on for any confirmation before going into the engine...
thanks buddy
R-vin
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try vodc site or total carlton site. :y
hey, checking the totalcarlton site did mention about the engine timing, however it referred to a member for details, unfortunately totalcarlton rejected my application for membership, hence contacting this member is not an option... does any one have membership? can send a technical request for me?
my engine has #1 TDC and the distributor rotor pointing toward #1 spark plug wire (and the notch on the distributor body lines up), will confirm if it is on the compression stroke thou... and what i would like to confirm is the correct position of the crank pulley >> the reluctor ring (teethed ring), should the part missing a tooth line up with the crank rotation sensor??? if so mine probably is 180° out, being BOSCH Motronic 1.5 that pulses the injectors in banks, the simplest fix would be to interchange the injector banks??? if so i can make up a piggy back injector harness (splice the injector wires and add extensions and connectors to reach the correct injectors)....
Ω 4 life
R-vin
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If you can wait until tonight I'll scan in the relevant pages of the Haynes manual as apdf document and e-mail then to you :y
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My last Senator died because the crankshaft position sensor toothed wheel was drifting. The previous owner had the cam belt chain changed. The cambelt chain bottom sprocket shares a long woodruff key with the CPS wheel, and the CPS sprocket is on the very end. Some how the CPS wheel was not firmly locked to the crankshaft, so the timing slowly drifted. It took me months to locate the fault, then I could not get off the locating nut. I scrapped the car.
I do not think there is any adjustment available to you. However, the timing could be wrong if the woodruff key is not engaged with the CPS wheel.
I still have a Haynes manual for the Carlton/Senator if it's any use to you.
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Unfortunately the Omega B doesn't use a straight 6 like your Omega A (called a Carlton over here) ......
I'll try to dig my Carlton/Senator Haynes manual out for you, ;)
much appreciated.... any tech support/ experience/ "try this" is always welcome...
Ω 4 Life
R-vin
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hi guys,
i have a C30NE engine (12V) and i would like to clarify the correct timing of this engine, should the crank rotation sensor should line up with the region of the crank pully (that has the gear like notches) where it is missing a notch, ie a space where there should have been 2 notches/ teeth, and #1 piston at TDC and the distributor rotor has a notch on the tip of the rotor should line up with a notch on the distributor housing in the region of #1 cylinder spark plug wire.
currently the crank rotation sensor lines up with the crank pully (region that misses a notch) when the distributor rotor points to # 5 cylinder spark plug wire... the engine starts and runs (easy for a Motronic 1.5 system that pulses the injectors in banks: 1+2+3 together then 4+5+6 together and the coil sends the spark respective of engine RPM which the rotor directs to the appropriate spark plug... when revved, it revvs well, but when held at a constant revv above idle, there is a serious missfire problem with rather frequent exhaust backfires, the oxygen sensor signal fluctuates from 0.18V to 0.89 V, the engine idles smoothly, spark plugs were checked for spark (injectors unclipped, plugs put onto plug wires and the engine cranked), plugs cleaned with carb cleaner and gap set to 0.035" and reinstalled), fuel pressure was not checked (awaiting delivery of a fuel pressure testing kit), though has battery voltage at the pump +ve terminal
does any one have access to a workshop manual on setting the timing correctly???
regards
R-vin
hey guys, i made a mistake (was with the significant other while checking this, i should have gotten out from below the car to check for my self) when i said that the crank pully notch was on # 5 cylinder, re checked it this morning, with assistance of an experienced mechanic... the notch on the CPS wheel/crank pully lines up with the #3 spark plug with #1 cylinder not at TDC,
i went below again while the mechanic checked the proper TDC position of #1 cylinder... he showed me that the rotor groove in the middle does not line up with the notch on the distributor housing.... in clockwise rotation, the notch on the distributor housing was infront of the rotor notch, actually futher ahead than the rotor tip.....
i have a new question, can the distributor be rotated on the engine, or will i have to remove it and try to engage it to the crank shaft in the correct position....
Ω 4 Life
R-vin
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Unfortunately the Omega B doesn't use a straight 6 like your Omega A (called a Carlton over here) ......
I'll try to dig my Carlton/Senator Haynes manual out for you, ;)
much appreciated, my email is arvineharry@hotmail.com
Ω 4 Life
R-vin
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If you can wait until tonight I'll scan in the relevant pages of the Haynes manual as apdf document and e-mail then to you :y
hey, thanks a lot buddy, i always got time.... to have my Ω running gr8 , there is always time...
Ω 4 Life
R-vin
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My last Senator died because the crankshaft position sensor toothed wheel was drifting. The previous owner had the cam belt chain changed. The cambelt chain bottom sprocket shares a long woodruff key with the CPS wheel, and the CPS sprocket is on the very end. Some how the CPS wheel was not firmly locked to the crankshaft, so the timing slowly drifted. It took me months to locate the fault, then I could not get off the locating nut. I scrapped the car.
I do not think there is any adjustment available to you. However, the timing could be wrong if the woodruff key is not engaged with the CPS wheel.
I still have a Haynes manual for the Carlton/Senator if it's any use to you.
I had a buddy that experienced a similar problem with the woodruff key, we did a bit of MaCgyver on the car... drilled into the keway a bit with a bit just bigger than the key, then hammered in the shank end of the drill bit and grinded off the excess.... worked till the head gasket blew and he changed the engine..
about the manual, i currently reside in brasil, what cost would i incur for purchase and shipping to brasil?
not too long ago i purchased a china clone of an Opel sacnner and a 10pin to 16pin adapter cable, took over 3 1/2 months to get to my door (brasil customs).... just saying, this is pretty normal here, and after the long wait, the scanner could not communicate with my car... from internet searches, found the procedure for checking engine codes and the auto tranny codes.... still could not find for the ABS system (though 1 manual specified bridging A to K in the ALDL connector, unfortunately my car does not have pins E, J and K.)
will be looking into this woodruff key some time soon... hopefully this is not the case...
regards
R-vin
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Mine was a 24 valve car, your's is a 12 valve. The 12 valve had a duplex chain drive to the camshaft, and failures of duplex chains were unknown, therefore no chains changed, so no chance of woodruff key damage.
I will check out the weight of the Haynes book and advise cost of postage. I don't want anything for it.
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Arvine, you have e-mail :y
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hi guys,
i have a C30NE engine (12V) and i would like to clarify the correct timing of this engine, should the crank rotation sensor should line up with the region of the crank pully (that has the gear like notches) where it is missing a notch, ie a space where there should have been 2 notches/ teeth, and #1 piston at TDC and the distributor rotor has a notch on the tip of the rotor should line up with a notch on the distributor housing in the region of #1 cylinder spark plug wire.
currently the crank rotation sensor lines up with the crank pully (region that misses a notch) when the distributor rotor points to # 5 cylinder spark plug wire... the engine starts and runs (easy for a Motronic 1.5 system that pulses the injectors in banks: 1+2+3 together then 4+5+6 together and the coil sends the spark respective of engine RPM which the rotor directs to the appropriate spark plug... when revved, it revvs well, but when held at a constant revv above idle, there is a serious missfire problem with rather frequent exhaust backfires, the oxygen sensor signal fluctuates from 0.18V to 0.89 V, the engine idles smoothly, spark plugs were checked for spark (injectors unclipped, plugs put onto plug wires and the engine cranked), plugs cleaned with carb cleaner and gap set to 0.035" and reinstalled), fuel pressure was not checked (awaiting delivery of a fuel pressure testing kit), though has battery voltage at the pump +ve terminal
does any one have access to a workshop manual on setting the timing correctly???
regards
R-vin
hey guys, i made a mistake (was with the significant other while checking this, i should have gotten out from below the car to check for my self) when i said that the crank pully notch was on # 5 cylinder, re checked it this morning, with assistance of an experienced mechanic... the notch on the CPS wheel/crank pully lines up with the #3 spark plug with #1 cylinder not at TDC,
i went below again while the mechanic checked the proper TDC position of #1 cylinder... he showed me that the rotor groove in the middle does not line up with the notch on the distributor housing.... in clockwise rotation, the notch on the distributor housing was infront of the rotor notch, actually futher ahead than the rotor tip.....
i have a new question, can the distributor be rotated on the engine, or will i have to remove it and try to engage it to the crank shaft in the correct position....
Ω 4 Life
R-vin
`To retime the distributor you remove the clamp bolt, pull the distributor body(with the cap removed) off the engine, this diisengaging the drive gear, then put it back where you choose. The ECU adjusts the timing, but if the rotor arm does not coincide with a pick up contact over the entire range of ECU timing adjustment you will get misfiring. It's all in Haynes somewhere.
The state of distributor cap and leads is critical for good starting and running. I used to carry a spare cap and leads and change the lot if it misbehaved.
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Arvine, you have e-mail :y
thanks buddy,
cheers
R-vin
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I remember that it's very easy to get the dizzy 180 deg out when you fit it. Either remove it start again, or in the mean time reposition the HT leads to suit :y
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No problem, I don`t have any experience of the C30NE engine, The C30SE seemed a lot easier with the timing and didn`t need a timing light.
I`ll have a look at the pictures you sent me tomorrow and see if I can give any input, There`s a couple of lads on here that are/ have been Autobahnstormers members that might be able to help, I`ve also got a friend that has had a few Monzas and Carltons with the C30NE engine so I`m sure we`ll get it sorted one way or another :y
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hi guys,
i have a C30NE engine (12V) and i would like to clarify the correct timing of this engine, should the crank rotation sensor should line up with the region of the crank pully (that has the gear like notches) where it is missing a notch, ie a space where there should have been 2 notches/ teeth, and #1 piston at TDC and the distributor rotor has a notch on the tip of the rotor should line up with a notch on the distributor housing in the region of #1 cylinder spark plug wire.
currently the crank rotation sensor lines up with the crank pully (region that misses a notch) when the distributor rotor points to # 5 cylinder spark plug wire... the engine starts and runs (easy for a Motronic 1.5 system that pulses the injectors in banks: 1+2+3 together then 4+5+6 together and the coil sends the spark respective of engine RPM which the rotor directs to the appropriate spark plug... when revved, it revvs well, but when held at a constant revv above idle, there is a serious missfire problem with rather frequent exhaust backfires, the oxygen sensor signal fluctuates from 0.18V to 0.89 V, the engine idles smoothly, spark plugs were checked for spark (injectors unclipped, plugs put onto plug wires and the engine cranked), plugs cleaned with carb cleaner and gap set to 0.035" and reinstalled), fuel pressure was not checked (awaiting delivery of a fuel pressure testing kit), though has battery voltage at the pump +ve terminal
does any one have access to a workshop manual on setting the timing correctly???
regards
R-vin
hey guys, i made a mistake (was with the significant other while checking this, i should have gotten out from below the car to check for my self) when i said that the crank pully notch was on # 5 cylinder, re checked it this morning, with assistance of an experienced mechanic... the notch on the CPS wheel/crank pully lines up with the #3 spark plug with #1 cylinder not at TDC,
i went below again while the mechanic checked the proper TDC position of #1 cylinder... he showed me that the rotor groove in the middle does not line up with the notch on the distributor housing.... in clockwise rotation, the notch on the distributor housing was infront of the rotor notch, actually futher ahead than the rotor tip.....
i have a new question, can the distributor be rotated on the engine, or will i have to remove it and try to engage it to the crank shaft in the correct position....
Ω 4 Life
R-vin
`To retime the distributor you remove the clamp bolt, pull the distributor body(with the cap removed) off the engine, this diisengaging the drive gear, then put it back where you choose. The ECU adjusts the timing, but if the rotor arm does not coincide with a pick up contact over the entire range of ECU timing adjustment you will get misfiring. It's all in Haynes somewhere.
The state of distributor cap and leads is critical for good starting and running. I used to carry a spare cap and leads and change the lot if it misbehaved.
hey, being a new owner to this particular car, i soon realised the lack of maintenance, started by changing the spark plug wires (after getting a nice jolt from #5), then the distributor cap and rotor, then got new plugs in, cleaned the injectors (which were in a terrible state... the plastic cover/seal retainer were broken or missing altogether, luckily i got an injector repair kit>>two actually since were for 4 cyl, which has the new seals, the plastic washer and a new plastic tips), checked the O2 sensor for proper function (appears non functional untill the engine warms up then fluctuates between 0.08V to 0.98V, left to idle would stay lean, throttle snap and it would go rich then lean off and start cycling rich-lean-rich-lean), but the problem was recurring, this is the point i compression tested the engine both cold and hot, 170-180psi across the block, idle vacuum test for valve sealing issues saw low manifold vacuum where the gauge showed leak at intake manifold, used a lot of carb cleaner spray looking for this leak and nothing, this is when i decided to go back to basics and check the engine timing...
i just made an adjustment to the distributor position (not sure how to send a foto in this post), the engine seems to be much better, though did not get enough time to let it warm up (thermostat 92°C open)... will be heading out soon, will see how it works.
cheers guys
R-vin
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You set distributor by inserting it to engage its gear so that with no. 1 cylinder about to fire rotor arm is aligned with the no. 1 lead contact in the distributor cap, bearing in mind that as ignition timing advances it must still align. The end of the rotor arm is quite long to assist you here. There may be some adjustment on the locking screw slot. Then as long as the plug leads are in the right order it should run on all 6.
Haynes manual weighs 750gms.
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hey guys,
i`d like to thank all of you for rallying to my needs, i finally got the engine revving right!!!!!, the distributor needed turning about 10° anti-clockwise, as soon as i can get some pictures posted, every one can see how to properly time a C30NE engine,
basically the flat side of the distributor (where has the recess for the tab of the distributor cap to enter) should be positioned " square" to the engine, or simply rotate it till this is closest to the cylinder head.
i`m thinking that the timing was adjusted by someone, particularly when the thermostat housing started leaking to probably stop the engine from boiling the water (no pressureised system).
cheers guys
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No problem, glad you got it soerted :y