Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: TheDaddy on 17 September 2011, 14:01:41

Title: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheDaddy on 17 September 2011, 14:01:41
Folks

In bother now and am after some advice, help, support.
 :-[

Previously I thought I had a slight oil leak that was coming down the side of the engine from above the oil filter but slightly towards the rear of the engine. Eventually forming on the bottom bolt of the gearbox housing.
Had already planned to do a further investigation into that this week end, but on Thursday a coolant leak was much more apparent. Pulled up at lunch time in tesco's with an amount of smoke coming from the engine bay, but after getting home that is only 5 mins, pulled up with a lot of smoke coming from the passenger side engine bay and I could see coolant pouring out from underneath the car.

So - I have checked the HBV, and that looks ok.
Removed the top and all is dry in the centre. All hoses seem ok, but with the amount that is pouring out, I am thinking it is a hose.

Problem I have really is that because I am not familiar with working on cars in general, it is very diffivult for me to see or identify what is or is not right. I could be looking straight at the fault but not seeing it.

I have tried to use a small mirror to look at the back for any problems, but at the moment cant find or see anything that tells me what the fault is.

Any direction or pointers would be helpfull. :y

Any mechanics within the Milton Keynes area may be required. :o

Cheers maties
Tony
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: tunnie on 17 September 2011, 14:04:12
not uncommon for the hose to blow on the coolant bridge, are you able to take the plenum off? If so take that off & fuel injection manifold (dead easy)

The can split, and being main hose dump lots of coolant.

How much has the coolant bottle dropped by?
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheDaddy on 17 September 2011, 14:07:44
Coolant bottle is nearly empty now.
Plenum and manifold is off.
Coolant bridge hose connections do look like they have seen water, but I just do not know if it is recent or not.

I suppose all I can do now is start removing each hose completley to check?
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Entwood on 17 September 2011, 14:28:19
If you have, or can get, a used coolant bottle cap...  drill it out and glue in a schrader valve from an old innertube - or scrounge one fom a tyre place ! This can be used to gently pressurise the coolant system to 5-10 psi and helps find leaks.

Another thing you can do is to buy a small bottle of food colouring .. I've used bright yellow.. and add that to the coolant, this also helps trace leaks.. just need to flush the system clean afterwards.

If you do both then leaks are usually very easy to spot  :)

HTH
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Jimbob on 17 September 2011, 14:43:54
iirc this car had its headgasket done just before you bought it?

Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: dbug on 17 September 2011, 14:45:58
Quote
not uncommon for the hose to blow on the coolant bridge, are you able to take the plenum off? If so take that off & fuel injection manifold (dead easy)

The can split, and being main hose dump lots of coolant.

How much has the coolant bottle dropped by?

Just replaced the small hose from coolant bridge to HBV - pinholed underneath by clip - hard to spot but dumped a lot of coolant!!
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheDaddy on 17 September 2011, 14:47:15
Quote
iirc this car had its headgasket done just before you bought it?


Yep
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheDaddy on 17 September 2011, 14:56:16
Checked the hoses from the bridge - both seem ok.
No holes or blows visible.
Not sure if valid, but blowing as hard as I can down them does not seem to force a sign of a leak.

Are there any other hoses in that area that I should check?
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: dbug on 17 September 2011, 15:19:17
Quote
Checked the hoses from the bridge - both seem ok.
No holes or blows visible.
Not sure if valid, but blowing as hard as I can down them does not seem to force a sign of a leak.

Are there any other hoses in that area that I should check?

Had to take mine off and flex it to spot it
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheDaddy on 17 September 2011, 16:08:56
Put it all back togeather to check and the same.
If I rev the engine the coolant literally pours out the bottom.
Leave it on tick over and it settles down to just a drip now and again.
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheDaddy on 17 September 2011, 16:10:21
Also did take off the bridge hoses to check.
Going to have to leave it for today as I need to sort the kiddies.
 :-/ :'(
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: albitz on 17 September 2011, 17:51:34
Could be a core plug. :(...........as said, it needs dye or pressure (or both) to make it easier to find. Might be worth taking the wipers scuttle off and then shining a torch down the back of the engine.You might just spot the leak. :-/
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheDaddy on 17 September 2011, 19:41:22
Might have to go the dye root as I just can not see where it is coming from.
Already got the scuttle off as well.

 :-[

Will try and further tomorrow.
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Mrs Cakey on 17 September 2011, 19:58:36
Quote
iirc this car had its headgasket done just before you bought it?


That was my first thought, but I would have expected anything amiss from that to show itself sooner :-/

My money's on a core plug if not a hose
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Jimbob on 17 September 2011, 20:23:22
ok...iirc MarkeyMark (ex-member, good friend of Guy) did the work

iirc, some of his workmanship was 'questionable' so a possibility.

I know Guy mentioned radweld / k-seal, but pretty sure he didnt use them.

Im thinking a hose or similar hasnt gone back quite as it should, or is twisted, and is the cause.

Good luck in sorting it.
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Andy B on 17 September 2011, 20:47:46
Quote
....

iirc, some of his workmanship was 'questionable' so a possibility.
.....

I know that Mark had some personal problems which led to him leaving the forum, but that's the first I've ever heard of any of his work being 'questionable'  :-? :-? :-?
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Jimbob on 17 September 2011, 20:51:52
if im on the right track...

I can think of several issues coming to light...
Wrong heads on an engine - old heads on new engine, with therfore wrong oilways.

coilpacks sat loose on plugs.

apologies to MM if I am wide of the mark on this, but theres something niggling away at me.
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheBoy on 17 September 2011, 20:55:27
Masters - can you post up that pic you texted me - blown up better than I can on phone, wonder if it might show something either to me, or other keen eyed members.

I guess if not hoses/hbv, that leaves core plug.  Wonder if one of the mobile mechanics here has a spare 3.0l head....
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: RobG on 17 September 2011, 21:07:50
Quote
Masters - can you post up that pic you texted me - blown up better than I can on phone, wonder if it might show something either to me, or other keen eyed members.

I guess if not hoses/hbv, that leaves core plug.  Wonder if one of the mobile mechanics here has a spare 3.0l head....
If needs be, got both sides. Postage wouldn`t be much either
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 17 September 2011, 21:45:20
From what I have found when core plugs have popped the water pours out as fast as you pour it in without even starting the car ;)
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 17 September 2011, 22:03:58
Think I would PM Guy and ask him what was done mate being honest. He will tell you mate.
I would pressurize the system whilst you have a few parts off, if its leaking like you say should not take long to find it. :y
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Jimbob on 17 September 2011, 22:05:55
Quote
From what I have found when core plugs have popped the water pours out as fast as you pour it in without even starting the car ;)


mine was a slow leak....

very slow when hot  - 100 odd miles between warnings
not so slow when cold - 10 odd miles between warnings
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: feeutfo on 17 September 2011, 22:23:07
As said, pressurize the system. Easiest way is to get someone to seal their mouth around the water bottle opening and blow, it doesn't take much pressure for the leak to spout, while you look for the leek. Could also fit a pushbike valve into a motorbike brake master cylinder cap which will fit, or another coolant cap, or drill a valve into yours and buy a new cap later....then pump it up with a push bike pump.

If the plenum is off though, you'll need to clamp or block the small coolant hoses to throttle body and what ever else is disconnected for it to work.
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 17 September 2011, 22:36:05
Quote
Quote
From what I have found when core plugs have popped the water pours out as fast as you pour it in without even starting the car ;)


mine was a slow leak....

very slow when hot  - 100 odd miles between warnings
not so slow when cold - 10 odd miles between warnings

The OP mentioned that water was 'Pouring Out'.. when I have seen core plugs actually out water Pours Out as fast as you can get it in even without the car running....
We are all guessing, in which case pressurizing is the answer to find the leak... Although if a core plug is actually out pressure will not be possible..
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Jimbob on 17 September 2011, 22:41:38
aye, never heard of another like mine.


What is it with 98, 3.0, MV6's?  :-/
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 17 September 2011, 22:54:01
Quote
aye, never heard of another like mine.


What is it with 98, 3.0, MV6's?  :-/

It is rather strange  :-/
I would ask Guy to see if he can shed some light on what was actually done to the car..  :y
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheDaddy on 18 September 2011, 14:08:59
Ok - Many thanks for the advice.
I have had another look this morning and just cannot see this bloomin leak. :-/
Very frustrated - so need to walk away.

Direction :-> has anyone got a picture of exactley where  the core plug is, so I can check on this?

Pictures taken before.

(http://mastrangelo.me.uk/gallery/public/mv6/2011-09-17-13.20.09.jpg.php)

(http://mastrangelo.me.uk/gallery/public/mv6/2011-09-17-13.20.26.jpg.php)
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 18 September 2011, 14:37:46
I dont want to come across rude here but a few people have mentioned pressurizing your cars water system. This will show up water leaks. As soon as you have some info post it as r
there we be people able to help you. As it is, its just guess work...

Hope that helps
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: RobG on 18 September 2011, 14:54:20
Two plugs behind dispack bracket, but pressure test first as advised
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z257/belisensis/V6COREPLUGREAR.jpg)
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheDaddy on 18 September 2011, 15:36:36
Thanks for the advice.
I will take the top off again and look at pressure testing the system to find out where the problem is.
What you have to understand though, unlike top notch, very experienced mig specialists like yourselves, I am a novice with very little experience and parts available, so what may be a simple job for you is usually a bigger job for me, though I am trying my best to take the advice and progress.

Not sure if just blowing into the coolant bottle will create enough pressure to identify the fault, but will certainly try and give it a go, but also trying to find a valve to put into my cap.

Will let you know any further findings on this.

Cheers
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: RobG on 18 September 2011, 15:40:36
Quote
Thanks for the advice.
I will take the top off again and look at pressure testing the system to find out where the problem is.
What you have to understand though, unlike top notch, very experienced mig specialists like yourselves, I am a novice with very little experience and parts available, so what may be a simple job for you is usually a bigger job for me, though I am trying my best to take the advice and progress.

Not sure if just blowing into the coolant bottle will create enough pressure to identify the fault, but will certainly try and give it a go, but also trying to find a valve to put into my cap.

Will let you know any further findings on this.

Cheers
You`re trying your best and asking for guidance as you progress. That`s all anyone can ask mate :y
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: feeutfo on 18 September 2011, 15:49:59
If plenum is coming off again, you could blow down the coolant pipe from throttle body, while holding your thumb over the end of coolant pipe TOO throttle body.

Both pipes are long enough to blow down, pressurize the system, AND look down the back of the engine. Only reason it won't work is if the water level has dropped below the level of the leak. In which case you'll be able to hear the air escape.... Head torch might be handy.  :)
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: albitz on 18 September 2011, 16:49:43
And a spare pair of eyes or lungs would be useful if possible. ;)

In the guide below there are pics of the pipes chris mentioned.I know you probably dont have access to a compressor etc. but the pics and info may be of some help.
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1294083883
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1225142864
The original guide for pressure testing the system.

Core plug in the rear of the head - iirc its in the middle of the rear of the head casting and difficult to even see it until other things are removed (depending which head it is) even then it would only be visible by using a mirror afaik. Standard pracice would be to remove the head to replace the core plug (if thats whats causing the leak) but I believe its possible (with patience to do it in situ by placing a flat piece of wood against the new one and tapping it into place with a hammer. :-/
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheBoy on 18 September 2011, 21:20:02
I might be able to bring in a modified cap Masters, but not in until Tuesday. It will allow you to pressure the system with plenum off, using a bicycle pump (presume you or kids have a pump?)
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheDaddy on 19 September 2011, 18:44:36
Quote
I might be able to bring in a modified cap Masters, but not in until Tuesday. It will allow you to pressure the system with plenum off, using a bicycle pump (presume you or kids have a pump?)


If you can.
Just drilled a hole in my cap and cut a valve out one of the kiddies bikes - maybe they will not notice  :o ?
and cant seem to get the system to pressurize. Cap does not seal. Obviously needs some sort of approach to ensure a seal. Maybe glueing the valve in.
Anyway - if you can bring one in on Tuesday and pop round, that would be most helpfull. :y
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheBoy on 19 September 2011, 18:56:02
Quote
Quote
I might be able to bring in a modified cap Masters, but not in until Tuesday. It will allow you to pressure the system with plenum off, using a bicycle pump (presume you or kids have a pump?)


If you can.
Just drilled a hole in my cap and cut a valve out one of the kiddies bikes - maybe they will not notice  :o ?
and cant seem to get the system to pressurize. Cap does not seal. Obviously needs some sort of approach to ensure a seal. Maybe glueing the valve in.
Anyway - if you can bring one in on Tuesday and pop round, that would be most helpfull. :y
A cap with a valve, and 2 spare caps put in boot. Prolly have 30mins at lunchtime.
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheDaddy on 19 September 2011, 18:58:22
Thanks matey - just let me know when you can pop round. :y

Hopefully will sort and identify the location of the leak.
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: feeutfo on 19 September 2011, 21:41:51
Dont need a valved cap really... Just put lips together and blow!  ;D

What ever blows your skirt up! ...as they say.  :)
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheBoy on 20 September 2011, 13:36:38
Ok, it's absolutely phishing out from somewhere at back of passenger bank. Head or core plug.

Was going to follow DLK's suggestion of removing dis to visually check, but run out of time :(

Either way, guess head needs to come off :(
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 20 September 2011, 13:39:22
I thought they had been done on this car?

Who did them?
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: tunnie on 20 September 2011, 13:41:14
Quote
I thought they had been done on this car?

Who did them?

Apprently ex-member MarkeyMark  :-/
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 20 September 2011, 13:45:04
Ah yes, this is Broocies old car, thought they had already been done.

Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: tunnie on 20 September 2011, 13:48:22
I recall when Guy had it, a new/different engine was fitted due to a small tappet noise? Not sure if this was before or after the heads were done, or even if they were on that engine  :-/
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 20 September 2011, 13:58:11
Another engine was fitted into the car a while ago. I know though Guy wanted  to sell it as the head gasket was leaking I know that because Guy phoned me. What happened after that I dont know, I would phone and speak to Guy to see if the work was done or not.
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheDaddy on 20 September 2011, 23:49:18
So managed to get the pack off but not the plate it sits on.
Just could not manage it with my monkey hands. :-[

Had not been informed that the car had a engine change :question -
Previous history I had from Guy was the following.

As described by the Amigo –> Since i bought her in September 2008:

New wishbones
Full cambelt kit
Water pump
Front discs/pads
Full VX clutch
Full s/s powerflow de catted exhaust tailor made & fitted by Rebel power pipes (£340)
Nearly new original MV6 alloys (£327) from Ebay
4 new tyres (£240}
New head gasket kit "£120 – May 2011.

So all very interesting.

Anyway - I am where I am.

Had a good talk with Darth Loo-knee about options and direction and a even longer chat with the wife this evening. :-?

Taking into account a few personal factors, the most feasible direction I have is to progress with this car even though throwing the white towel was nearly decided. :'(

Even though I know that diff bushes, Power Steering pump + bodywork will still need to be done on the car at some point (diff bushes sooner rather than later  :-?) I will be speaking to Darth Loo-knee in th emorning to arrange for the engine work to be done.

Many thanks to all for there input and I will keep this thread updated with progress and eventual findings.
 :y
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: RobG on 20 September 2011, 23:52:33
If the head turns out to be knackered I`ve got one here but I`ll be away this Friday for two weeks
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: albitz on 21 September 2011, 00:00:54
Good. Hurry up and bugger off. :P ;D
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: twiglet on 21 September 2011, 00:16:33
Quote
Good. Hurry up and bugger off. :P ;D

And make sure you lock everything away! I hear some 'undesirables' may be visiting your area while you're away!!!  :D ;D :-X
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: feeutfo on 21 September 2011, 11:58:46
Bloody hell. Essex boys along the M4. Look out!   :o
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: twiglet on 21 September 2011, 12:03:42
Quote
Bloody hell. Essex boys along the M4. Look out!   :o

Hey Albs, who's he callin' Essex boys???  ::) :P ;D

Anyway, the M4 may not be the chosen route, depending on other factors...  :-X
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: RobG on 21 September 2011, 12:07:47
Quote
Good. Hurry up and bugger off. :P ;D
Pi$$ off :P
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: twiglet on 21 September 2011, 12:11:50
Quote
Quote
Good. Hurry up and bugger off. :P ;D
Pi$$ off :P

Ain't you supposed to be somewhere about now???  ;D :-X
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: RobG on 21 September 2011, 12:13:10
Quote
Quote
Quote
Good. Hurry up and bugger off. :P ;D
Pi$$ off :P

Ain't you supposed to be somewhere about now???  ;D :-X
12.45
Any more insults from your mucker and it`ll have CD wheels when you collect it :P :P ;D
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 21 September 2011, 12:19:39
If I cna be of assistance with any of it then let me know.
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 21 September 2011, 12:31:38
Quote
If I cna be of assistance with any of it then let me know.


Cheers Master  :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheDaddy on 21 September 2011, 20:56:02
Thanks to you for your support and offers of help.

TheBoy for directing me as normal and Daz who is sorting everything out for recovery.......top man......... :y

Hopefully will be back up and running soon and able to put this puzzle together to confirm what has happened.

I have to say - certainly testing being driven by the missus around.  :-/ Guess I am just a poor back seat driver... ::)

Daz is going to sort me out - top man
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: hotel21 on 21 September 2011, 21:02:21
Yup, my old car.  Still miss it, actually.  Went well when in my ownership.

Not read all the threads but the following may be of an assistance...

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1241553008/12

I know there are others.   :D
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheBoy on 21 September 2011, 21:16:33
Quote
Guess I am just a poor back seat driver... ::)
Thats hardly Shock of the Century, TheDaddy :P ;D
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Webby the Bear on 21 September 2011, 21:18:20
Quote
Thanks to you for your support and offers of help.

TheBoy for directing me as normal and Daz who is sorting everything out for recovery.......top man......... :y

Hopefully will be back up and running soon and able to put this puzzle together to confirm what has happened.

I have to say - certainly testing being driven by the missus around.  :-/ Guess I am just a poor back seat driver... ::)

Daz is going to sort me out - top man


i've read all this thread and feel your pain mate. HOWEVER your car is in the best possible care with TB and the pink one. i realy hope you get it sorted and the next time you post it's to say how much you love the car!  :y :y :y :y

good luck mate
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheDaddy on 26 September 2011, 21:51:33
Right - its 9.30pm and I am sitting here with a cold beer and a very happy head on.
 :)

The Black Beastie is not only repaired, but running better than ever.
20% Better. Smoother, quicker with no flat spots.
 :y
Darth Loo-knee has been down today and what can I say.......Tip Top man. ;D 8)

Leak (flood) was down to the head gasket - dreadfull state.
NEVER been changed on this engine.

So what has Daz done - Both Head Gaskets, Cam Belt, Water Pump with all the trimmings........ :y
Very long day for Daz - who is still on his way home and much appreciated.
His work and approach has been brilliant covering all possible scenarios.

Can only thank and recommend Daz to all.
TheBoy also added with his presence - cheers matey and thanks for staying on till the end.
Hope your dinner was not in the dog?

Just a quick post tonight - as I have pictures to load, but just wanted to get online how today has gone and how looking forward to my short drive to work tomorrow.
Will have to go the very long way............ ;D

Very happy with the old girl now and I know that I have a fully sorted and running engine that will be good for the next 4 years. ;D

Will update with some pictures of the work soon.

Again many thanks for Daz tarvelling down and commiting to a long day with the travelling as well.

Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Jimbob on 26 September 2011, 21:54:52
Excellent news, glad its sorted.
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheBoy on 26 September 2011, 21:56:51
was good to thrash it up the A5 see it running as it should :y
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheBoy on 26 September 2011, 21:59:02
I should add, once again, it was a pleasure to see Pinky doing yet another good job, putting right all the problems that the last person to work on it should have done
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Webby the Bear on 26 September 2011, 22:11:13
I should add, once again, it was a pleasure to see Pinky doing yet another good job, putting right all the problems that the last person to work on it should have done


daz is a legend. wouldn't trust my car with anyone else!!!!  :y
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheDaddy on 26 September 2011, 22:15:04
Yep - absolutely no way head gaskets had ever been done on this one - even though the previous owner had paid for the passenger side to be done - the week before I bought the car.....Would seem that it had been hanging on with the Radweld..... :-\ :-[

But - I am where I am and I know now that all is sorted and tip top with the engine.

Dont think TheBoy's bullit will be catching me out at any more roudabouts.  ;D

Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 26 September 2011, 23:44:23
Home safe and sound with a tummy full of a pizza I have just called for ;D

Cheers for keeping me well fed and water Tony :y

Yeap both Head Gaskets were well and truely shafted this is why they should be changed in pairs and not just one side.......

The Beastie Lives On
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: feeutfo on 27 September 2011, 01:28:57
TheBoy also added with his presence - cheers matey and thanks for staying on till the end.
Hope your dinner was not in the dog?
Nah, the cat however... ;D

Excellent news TD.  :y

What caused the flat spot btw?
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: feeutfo on 27 September 2011, 01:30:18
TheBoy also added with his presence - cheers matey and thanks for staying on till the end.
Hope your dinner was not in the dog?
Nah, the cat however... ;D

Excellent news TD.  :y

What caused the flat spot btw?

Assuming the HG was failed externally...?
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 27 September 2011, 08:26:21
I noted also that the dreaded black sealant had been used on the oil cooler cover plate to (seen this before by said person on another car which caused stat failure)
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 27 September 2011, 09:52:37
I noted also that the dreaded black sealant had been used on the oil cooler cover plate to (seen this before by said person on another car which caused stat failure)

Thermostat had some blue sealer around it... A very colourful engine if I may say so :)
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 28 September 2011, 08:14:33
So, whats the verdict, driving better?
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Amigo on 02 October 2011, 17:50:27
Evening all. I've read this through after Daz sending me the link. I bought the car from Broocie about 3 years ago? @ 107k & he told me of one tappet that was noisy from cold. I was ok with this but as soon  as i got her home everyone commented on how loose & clattery the top end sounded in comparison to my old 2.5 on tickover & to be honest it was so i paid MM to fit replacements on both sides, 3 times after soaking in oil overnight but still the noise became louder each morning & took longer to go away. I posted this all over the forum at the time & the general consesus was the oil pump on it's way out hence poor oil feed to furthest away tappet hence rattling from cold despite being replaced....3 times. I was told on here that 3.0 oil pumps are a bugger to replace so the engine was replaced with a new camberlt/water pump etc from a 3.0 Elite with a fully stamped book...i never saw the book but MM was nearby, all the rest of you who fix Migs were miles away & busy. Then the water leak. I paid MM £130 to flush out the K seal i'd put in & change the head gasket. I would'nt know by looking under the bonnet whether it was done or not as i'm no mechanic, hence i have to pay & trust others. A few mates have questioned MM's work but as you know i've always stuck up for him despite the odd nagging doubt. I admit i'm not so sure now.

  Tony. I'm sorry you've incurred costs & inconveniences, i swear i was'nt trying to have you over. She's a good car really, always has been & everything good of bad has been posted on here over the years so i've nothing to hide, I'm glad that at least she going a good'un for you now & a certain person won't be working on my cars anymore. I did ask for other help but it seems i'm too far away which puts me off buying another one as there are some things with Migs i can't do myself.

   Sorry again, i really never meant to rip anyone off, Guy.   
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheBoy on 02 October 2011, 18:04:36
So, whats the verdict, driving better?
It goes like the proverbial :y

I know TheDaddy is enjoying it, fully 'exercising' it regularly ;D

The god awful lag it had has disappeared after DLK did the HG - not sure what was causing that - the timing was bang on, multirams were fine. Puzzling.
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Jimbob on 02 October 2011, 18:06:11
Excellent Post Guy, nice to have the history again.

Im sure I speak for everyone that your own honour and morals were never under question.
Your own abilities (and lack of) are well known.....You make a cracking Curry....but best not pop the bonnet :y

I think its now a case of alls well that ends well, your old car sounds like its going from stength to stength.
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheBoy on 02 October 2011, 18:06:56
Evening all. I've read this through after Daz sending me the link. I bought the car from Broocie about 3 years ago? @ 107k & he told me of one tappet that was noisy from cold. I was ok with this but as soon  as i got her home everyone commented on how loose & clattery the top end sounded in comparison to my old 2.5 on tickover & to be honest it was so i paid MM to fit replacements on both sides, 3 times after soaking in oil overnight but still the noise became louder each morning & took longer to go away. I posted this all over the forum at the time & the general consesus was the oil pump on it's way out hence poor oil feed to furthest away tappet hence rattling from cold despite being replaced....3 times. I was told on here that 3.0 oil pumps are a bugger to replace so the engine was replaced with a new camberlt/water pump etc from a 3.0 Elite with a fully stamped book...i never saw the book but MM was nearby, all the rest of you who fix Migs were miles away & busy. Then the water leak. I paid MM £130 to flush out the K seal i'd put in & change the head gasket. I would'nt know by looking under the bonnet whether it was done or not as i'm no mechanic, hence i have to pay & trust others. A few mates have questioned MM's work but as you know i've always stuck up for him despite the odd nagging doubt. I admit i'm not so sure now.

  Tony. I'm sorry you've incurred costs & inconveniences, i swear i was'nt trying to have you over. She's a good car really, always has been & everything good of bad has been posted on here over the years so i've nothing to hide, I'm glad that at least she going a good'un for you now & a certain person won't be working on my cars anymore. I did ask for other help but it seems i'm too far away which puts me off buying another one as there are some things with Migs i can't do myself.

   Sorry again, i really never meant to rip anyone off, Guy.
I saw the HGs that came off. They were not recent.  Most likely the original when the engine was built.
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Amigo on 02 October 2011, 19:01:30
Once again i apologise to Tony. I may be a confrontational gobshite at times but i am if nothing else honest & thought the car was sorted when i sold it. Not sure what the "lag" was. It was the same with both engines & i did'nt know amy better, just looked at it as a power band like on a bike as she pulled like a train once on the pop!

   As said i won't trust a certain someone again with any car & am too far away for Daz or Pete to help so doubt i'll have another one much as i love 'em. Guy.
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Lazydocker on 02 October 2011, 19:11:54
Guy, as many have said, your honesty and integrity wasn't questioned :y

I know you have always defended the person in question but it seems that it may have been misplaced... I'm sorry for you on that front but at least you're big enough to put your hands up over it :y

The Beastie lives on :y :y
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheBoy on 02 October 2011, 19:34:44
Guy, as many have said, your honesty and integrity wasn't questioned :y

I know you have always defended the person in question but it seems that it may have been misplaced... I'm sorry for you on that front but at least you're big enough to put your hands up over it :y

The Beastie lives on :y :y
Indeed it does.  I have to refrain from nicking TheDaddy's keys when he leaves them on his desk ::).  It is so much fun ::)


Amigo - not sure if lag had got worse lately, then I drove Beastie at East Anglia meet, I don't recall a lag like it had (I'm sure I would have).  The only lags on any car I drove that weekend were Lazydockers LPG lag.  If driven gently, the lag TheDaddy's had was far less apparent.
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheDaddy on 11 October 2011, 21:01:44
Right - Not been on for a while - feet not touched the floor, but have appreciated all posts that I have now read.

Guy - Obviously do not know any history in relation to MM, but certainly from this I think we both have fallen for some very poor and un-fair handling. If I was you I would be asking for your money back if your paths every cross again with MM - certainly would not be using again.

But - on a brighter note - not been out very far in the old girl recently, but did have a trip to St. Albans on Sunday and yet again - what a joy it was. :y
She drove lovely - no flat spot...just spot on. So thats great. :D

I do have a slight issue with the engine running hot at the moment.
Some days she runs stable on the gage at just under the 95 - but for example on Sunday, she ran between 96 to 98 on the way down and whilst I was running through the city, she crept upto 99+.
Pulled over and opened the bonnet - with the aircon/heating off, no fans were on.
In a few minutes on tick over - the fans came on and started to cool the engine.

So making me think its the low level fans failing to come on correctly, causing the problem.
 :-\
Not always constant though as today whilst checking it over with TheBoy, again running slightly higher to what she noramlly does at 96, the fans came on at approx 97.
So not sure if it is the low level fan sensor or if I have false readings or another issue else where.
Going to have to check into that further - but she is running very well and am totally enjoying the new life Daz has fed into her.

Just some pictures of the recovery:

Head Gaskets:
(http://www.mastrangelo.me.uk/gallery/cars/the-black-beatie-mv6/leak/2011-09-26-11.18.09.jpg.php)

(http://www.mastrangelo.me.uk/gallery/cars/the-black-beatie-mv6/leak/p1010367.jpg.php)

Head with the failed gasket:
(http://www.mastrangelo.me.uk/gallery/cars/the-black-beatie-mv6/leak/p1010378.jpg.php)

Engine recovery:
(http://www.mastrangelo.me.uk/gallery/cars/the-black-beatie-mv6/leak/p1010368.jpg.php)

The Dark Lord using the force:
(http://www.mastrangelo.me.uk/gallery/cars/the-black-beatie-mv6/leak/p1010370.jpg.php)

New VX Gaskets:
(http://www.mastrangelo.me.uk/gallery/cars/the-black-beatie-mv6/leak/p1010376.jpg.php)

The MUF on its way back:
(http://www.mastrangelo.me.uk/gallery/cars/the-black-beatie-mv6/leak/p1010374.jpg.php)

(http://www.mastrangelo.me.uk/gallery/cars/the-black-beatie-mv6/leak/p1010375.jpg.php)

(http://www.mastrangelo.me.uk/gallery/cars/the-black-beatie-mv6/leak/p1010380.jpg.php)

(http://www.mastrangelo.me.uk/gallery/cars/the-black-beatie-mv6/leak/p1010381.jpg.php)

Nearly there:
(http://www.mastrangelo.me.uk/gallery/cars/the-black-beatie-mv6/leak/p1010382.jpg.php)

Just thought to post some pictures of the long day.

 :)
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Entwood on 11 October 2011, 21:11:53
None of your photos show .. and looking at the code under "quote" I believe its becsause you have .php at the end of every one ..

trying your first without the .php ...

Head Gaskets:
(http://www.mastrangelo.me.uk/gallery/cars/the-black-beatie-mv6/leak/2011-09-26-11.18.09.jpg)
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Entwood on 11 October 2011, 21:13:58
None of your photos show .. and looking at the code under "quote" I believe its becsause you have .php at the end of every one ..

trying your first without the .php ...

Head Gaskets:
(http://www.mastrangelo.me.uk/gallery/cars/the-black-beatie-mv6/leak/2011-09-26-11.18.09.jpg)

:(  didn''t work either .... think it might be your "library" setup on mastrangelo   :(
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheDaddy on 11 October 2011, 21:23:42
Posting a link to a folder where I have the pictures.
Seem to have a problem inserting the pictures - maybe to large to keep the ratio.

 :-\

http://www.mastrangelo.me.uk/gallery/cars/the-black-beatie-mv6/leak/ (http://www.mastrangelo.me.uk/gallery/cars/the-black-beatie-mv6/leak/)

 :)
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Jimbob on 11 October 2011, 21:36:48

Head Gaskets:
(http://images.omegaowners.com/images/Jimbob/hosted_for_others/thedaddy/2011-09-26-11.18.09_resize.jpg)

(http://images.omegaowners.com/images/Jimbob/hosted_for_others/thedaddy/p1010367_resize.jpg)

Head with the failed gasket:
(http://images.omegaowners.com/images/Jimbob/hosted_for_others/thedaddy/p1010378_resize.jpg)

Engine recovery:
(http://images.omegaowners.com/images/Jimbob/hosted_for_others/thedaddy/p1010368_resize.jpg)

The Dark Lord using the force:
(http://images.omegaowners.com/images/Jimbob/hosted_for_others/thedaddy/p1010370_resize.jpg)

New VX Gaskets:
(http://images.omegaowners.com/images/Jimbob/hosted_for_others/thedaddy/p1010376_resize.jpg)

The MUF on its way back:
(http://images.omegaowners.com/images/Jimbob/hosted_for_others/thedaddy/p1010374_resize.jpg)

(http://images.omegaowners.com/images/Jimbob/hosted_for_others/thedaddy/p1010375_resize.jpg)

(http://images.omegaowners.com/images/Jimbob/hosted_for_others/thedaddy/p1010380_resize.jpg)

(http://images.omegaowners.com/images/Jimbob/hosted_for_others/thedaddy/p1010381_resize.jpg)

Nearly there:
(http://images.omegaowners.com/images/Jimbob/hosted_for_others/thedaddy/p1010382_resize.jpg)


Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Jimbob on 11 October 2011, 21:37:21
fixed the links....but should have checked the size!  sorry
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheDaddy on 11 October 2011, 21:39:44
fixed the links....but should have checked the size!  sorry

Oh -  :-\
I will get the hang of this eventually.

Maybe just leave the link into the gallery?
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Lazydocker on 11 October 2011, 21:54:47
The car had kseal/radweld in (I assume) so you're probably looking at changing the rad :( ::)
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheBoy on 11 October 2011, 22:24:18
The car had kseal/radweld in (I assume) so you're probably looking at changing the rad :( ::)
Not convinced the rad is suffering any issues - or more correctly, there is another fan/temperature problem to sort first.
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Lazydocker on 11 October 2011, 22:44:53
The car had kseal/radweld in (I assume) so you're probably looking at changing the rad :( ::)
Not convinced the rad is suffering any issues - or more correctly, there is another fan/temperature problem to sort first.
Fair enough... Just going by the experience with mine ;)
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Kevin Wood on 11 October 2011, 23:46:34
That's a pretty nadgered set of head gaskets, and no mistake. ;D

Might be worth pulling the fan switch out and making sure the face that sits in the coolant isn't covered in radweld / sh1te. :y
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: feeutfo on 12 October 2011, 06:58:36
What a beautiful sight that is, all cleaned up and waiting heads. mmmmwah. :y
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 12 October 2011, 09:51:36
Now they are Big Pictures I cant see them  ;D ;D
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: aaronjb on 12 October 2011, 10:13:44
That's a pretty nadgered set of head gaskets, and no mistake. ;D

More like 'what gasket'! I think most of it had disappeared into the coolant system & oil ways ;D
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheDaddy on 12 October 2011, 13:47:01

Just had the Boys Tech2 on it whilst having lunch letting her tick over.
Gauge temp and listed temp in display + data seem to match up - or at least are constant.
Whilst sitting there - fans cam on and off seemingly all ok, so the temp on tech2 display ranged from 94 to 100.  :-\

So today all seemingly running as expected. Will further monitor.

I do hate these intermittent specials.
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Kevin Wood on 12 October 2011, 14:33:35
Could be a fan switch or relay just starting to play up, I guess?
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 October 2011, 14:47:13
Thats unusual as most gauges read under!
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheDaddy on 12 October 2011, 15:18:00
Was not reading the instrument panel temp under the body option.
 :-\

Done that now and that was consistant, but as said, reading under the engine sensor reading.

Thinking about replacing the fan switch - not sure if you can get 3rd party ones or if just VX.
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheBoy on 12 October 2011, 18:42:00
Thats unusual as most gauges read under!
Most gauges overread until midpoint, then underread, IME...
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Rods2 on 12 October 2011, 21:58:50
I thought my head gaskets were quite bad when I changed them, but these are 10 times worse!  ::)
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Jimbob on 13 October 2011, 07:39:15
forgotton I had left the pics like this....now resized! back in the thread :y
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheBoy on 13 October 2011, 13:23:26
forgotton I had left the pics like this....now resized! back in the thread :y
Thanks Jimbob - I had meant to do that last night, and entirely forgot  :-[
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: tunnie on 13 October 2011, 13:26:58
Looks nice and shiny and clean now, excellent work as ever by Daz  :y

Those old HG's were cream crackered though  :o
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheBoy on 13 October 2011, 13:37:02
Looks nice and shiny and clean now, excellent work as ever by Daz  :y

Those old HG's were cream crackered though  :o
Indeed, and never in a million years only a few months old (apparently passenger side replaced just before TheDaddy bought it in the summer)  >:(, I think TheDaddy is within his rights to feel a bit peeved  >:(

(For the record, I have no reason to disbelieve the previous owner, when he said he paid somebody a decent wedge of money to do the work)
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 13 October 2011, 14:11:44
Thats it I can see them now  :y
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 October 2011, 14:13:30
I quite enjoy doing head gaskets.

Edit: Did I actulay just say that  ???
Title: Re: MV6 1998 3.0 Coolant Leak
Post by: TheBoy on 13 October 2011, 14:21:49
I quite enjoy doing head gaskets.

Edit: Did I actulay just say that  ???
You're very odd, Mr DTM....