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[Mr Skrunts]

Just been chatting to a lady that turned 60 today and after reminising a chatting about all sorts she said I get free presciptions as of today.  So then bus passes got mentioned and the fact she has to wait till she is 67 to get hers.

Well thinking she was wrong I went on google - Scotlanf, Ireland & Wales are all free for anyone over 60 according to .gov.uk.  they are also free to anyone within London.  But the rest of England it's sweet break All.

[Rangie]

We got ours at 65 in Lincolnshire, used mine in 2019 for a couple of trips to Peterborough excellent no parking worries etc, unused since because of the pandemic, when we are out walking the dog we see the buses regularly completely empty all the time, funny enough we commented yesterday as to how long these bus companies will survive in our area.

[Doctor Gollum]

If we're paying for it, you might as well use it

[STEMO]

We already paid for someone else's 
But they didn't cost anywhere near as much as the benefits you've been getting for the last 12 months 

[Rangie]

We already paid for someone else's 
But they didn't cost anywhere near as much as the benefits you've been getting for the last 12 months 

. 

And we're still paying.

[dave the builder]

I wonder if I'll get a free teleporter pass when I get old   

[STEMO]

I wonder if I'll get a free teleporter pass when I get old   

Of course, what with you only being 22 and all.

[Sir Tigger KC]

I wonder if I'll get a free teleporter pass when I get old   

Watch out for those pesky flies though!   

[dave the builder]

I wonder if I'll get a free teleporter pass when I get old   

Of course, what with you only being 22 and all.

thanks Uncle Stemo 

I'll be having another "very small ,exclusive" birthday party the end of the month ,thanks to lockdowns 

[Broomies Mate]

This may divide opinion;

Prescriptions,
Bus Passes,
Winter Fuel Allowance,
Eye Tests (and vouches for Glasses, Contact Lenses),


Just because you are of 'an age' doesn't automatically mean you are destitute.  There are many, many pensioners who have a very healthy income (and kudos to them), so why are they entitled to 'free' or 'discounted' anything when there are people of a younger age (maybe just a year or two) who cannot afford those same things and are forced to pay for them by-hook-or-by-crook?

It's becoming more prevalent, and rightly so, but all concessions should be means tested, and only handed to those who genuinely need them.

[STEMO]

This may divide opinion;

Prescriptions,
Bus Passes,
Winter Fuel Allowance,
Eye Tests (and vouches for Glasses, Contact Lenses),


Just because you are of 'an age' doesn't automatically mean you are destitute.  There are many, many pensioners who have a very healthy income (and kudos to them), so why are they entitled to 'free' or 'discounted' anything when there are people of a younger age (maybe just a year or two) who cannot afford those same things and are forced to pay for them by-hook-or-by-crook?

It's becoming more prevalent, and rightly so, but all concessions should be means tested, and only handed to those who genuinely need them.

Agreed. But I'm afraid you won't get the general (older) population to agree with you, they're 'entitled'. Also, how far do you take it? Should the state pension be means tested?
I have that it would cost almost as much to do the means testing, for the benefits you mentioned, as the money saved. But, hey ho, it is what it is.

[dave the builder]

OK , I don't want to go on a smelly bus anyway , even if it's free 

[STEMO]

OK , I don't want to go on a smelly bus anyway , even if it's free 

When I got my bus pass I went on a bus to 'try it out'. That was the first and last time I used it.

[Rangie]

I can't see us ever using ours again unless both cars let us down.

[Broomies Mate]

Agreed. But I'm afraid you won't get the general (older) population to agree with you, they're 'entitled'. Also, how far do you take it? Should the state pension be means tested?
I have that it would cost almost as much to do the means testing, for the benefits you mentioned, as the money saved. But, hey ho, it is what it is.

I dunno.... There are already procedures in place for things like Pension Tax Credits.  Maybe if you were entitled to that, you would also benefit from other concessions?

[Broomies Mate]

Agreed. But I'm afraid you won't get the general (older) population to agree with you, they're 'entitled'. Also, how far do you take it? Should the state pension be means tested?
I have that it would cost almost as much to do the means testing, for the benefits you mentioned, as the money saved. But, hey ho, it is what it is.

Sorry, missed this in the quote;

No, definitely no.  It's what we have paid in for.  It shouldn't be looked at, or relied upon as the sole means of income though, and I think that's where so many have gone wrong.

[Doctor Gollum]

We already paid for someone else's 
But they didn't cost anywhere near as much as the benefits you've been getting for the last 12 months 

Still paying Tax and NI on my 80% And is paid to me from my employer not the State. The company can claim it from the State. Incidentally, the cost of an 8 year old service bus is typically 1.5 times the maximum furlough scheme payments are £42k vs £30k (£2,500). New buses are north of £100k

Free bus passes falls into the same category as the free NHS. Although if services aren't used then they don't get subsidised, and then they get pulled although people don't appreciate that until they can no longer drive.

[STEMO]

We already paid for someone else's 
But they didn't cost anywhere near as much as the benefits you've been getting for the last 12 months 

Still paying Tax and NI on my 80% And is paid to me from my employer not the State. The company can claim it from the State. Incidentally, the cost of an 8 year old service bus is typically 1.5 times the maximum furlough scheme payments are £42k vs £30k (£2,500). New buses are north of £100k

Free bus passes falls into the same category as the free NHS. Although if services aren't used then they don't get subsidised, and then they get pulled although people don't appreciate that until they can no longer drive.

Shite, shite and even more shite. You're paying tax and insurance on the money the government give your employer to pay you...taxpayers money. And WTF has the price of a bus got to do with anything?
You make snide comments followed by the usual zippy ( doesn't that mean you're saying nowt?) or rolling eyes and, when you get it back you come out with, well, shite. Took you a long time to think of that load of old shite, too. 

[Varche]

This may divide opinion;

Prescriptions,
Bus Passes,
Winter Fuel Allowance,
Eye Tests (and vouches for Glasses, Contact Lenses),


Just because you are of 'an age' doesn't automatically mean you are destitute.  There are many, many pensioners who have a very healthy income (and kudos to them), so why are they entitled to 'free' or 'discounted' anything when there are people of a younger age (maybe just a year or two) who cannot afford those same things and are forced to pay for them by-hook-or-by-crook?

It's becoming more prevalent, and rightly so, but all concessions should be means tested, and only handed to those who genuinely need them.

Agreed. But I'm afraid you won't get the general (older) population to agree with you, they're 'entitled'. Also, how far do you take it? Should the state pension be means tested?
I have that it would cost almost as much to do the means testing, for the benefits you mentioned, as the money saved. But, hey ho, it is what it is.

Should the state pension be means tested? It is already the worst in Europe. That is probably why successive governments have added stuff like £10 xmas, winter fuel, free teleporter passes.....

[Doctor Gollum]

Bus prices are relevant because someone has to pay for them, whether that is ultimately the passengers or tax payers through subsidies.

Watching telly box, so I will take as long as I like to compose a post...

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I agree with Broomies Mate. All benefits, including state pension should be means tested.
There are plenty of wealthy older people around.The Welfare state was never set up to increase peoples wealth. It was set up to prevent abject poverty.
These benefits have been used by successive Govts. to buy peoples votes, which is why the whole thing has become so bloated and expensive.
It is possible it may cost more to means test  than would be saved, for a while at least, but it would break the destructive national mindset of the state having an endless supply of money and everyone having their own reason to feel entitled to have a share of it.

[Rangie]

I agree with Broomies Mate. All benefits, including state pension should be means tested.
There are plenty of wealthy older people around.The Welfare state was never set up to increase peoples wealth. It was set up to prevent abject poverty.
These benefits have been used by successive Govts. to buy peoples votes, which is why the whole thing has become so bloated and expensive.
It is possible it may cost more to means test  than would be saved, for a while at least, but it would break the destructive national mindset of the state having an endless supply of money and everyone having their own reason to feel entitled to have a share of it.

. 

Why not start by donating yours to charity if you are in receipt of it or making arrangements for the future ?

[STEMO]

I agree with Broomies Mate. All benefits, including state pension should be means tested.
There are plenty of wealthy older people around.The Welfare state was never set up to increase peoples wealth. It was set up to prevent abject poverty.
These benefits have been used by successive Govts. to buy peoples votes, which is why the whole thing has become so bloated and expensive.
It is possible it may cost more to means test  than would be saved, for a while at least, but it would break the destructive national mindset of the state having an endless supply of money and everyone having their own reason to feel entitled to have a share of it.

I think you'll find BM said "No, definitely not" as far as state pension is concerned.

[STEMO]

Bus prices are relevant because someone has to pay for them, whether that is ultimately the passengers or tax payers through subsidies.

Watching telly box, so I will take as long as I like to compost a post...

[Rangie]

Bus prices are relevant because someone has to pay for them, whether that is ultimately the passengers or tax payers through subsidies.

Watching telly box, so I will take as long as I like to compost a post...

. 


He does provide amusement with his utter shite though Steve.
😀😀😀

[Marks DTM Calib]

If state pension is to be means tested, I would like my percentage of NI/Tax that is currently considered to be going into the (non existent) pension pot, to go into my private one please.    (and hence why it wont get taken away as the whole thing will collapse!)

As for 'free' NHS, it isn't and never has been 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I agree with Broomies Mate. All benefits, including state pension should be means tested.
There are plenty of wealthy older people around.The Welfare state was never set up to increase peoples wealth. It was set up to prevent abject poverty.
These benefits have been used by successive Govts. to buy peoples votes, which is why the whole thing has become so bloated and expensive.
It is possible it may cost more to means test  than would be saved, for a while at least, but it would break the destructive national mindset of the state having an endless supply of money and everyone having their own reason to feel entitled to have a share of it.

. 

Why not start by donating yours to charity if you are in receipt of it or making arrangements for the future ?

I am not yet in receipt of it. Not old enough. Im happy for it to start being means tested before I am, as long as the means testing is reasonable. 

[STEMO]

I agree with Broomies Mate. All benefits, including state pension should be means tested.
There are plenty of wealthy older people around.The Welfare state was never set up to increase peoples wealth. It was set up to prevent abject poverty.
These benefits have been used by successive Govts. to buy peoples votes, which is why the whole thing has become so bloated and expensive.
It is possible it may cost more to means test  than would be saved, for a while at least, but it would break the destructive national mindset of the state having an endless supply of money and everyone having their own reason to feel entitled to have a share of it.

. 

Why not start by donating yours to charity if you are in receipt of it or making arrangements for the future ?

I am not yet in receipt of it. Not old enough. Im happy for it to start being means tested before I am, as long as the means testing is reasonable. 

Not old enough? You look old enough, Albs 

[STEMO]

I agree with Broomies Mate. All benefits, including state pension should be means tested.
There are plenty of wealthy older people around.The Welfare state was never set up to increase peoples wealth. It was set up to prevent abject poverty.
These benefits have been used by successive Govts. to buy peoples votes, which is why the whole thing has become so bloated and expensive.
It is possible it may cost more to means test  than would be saved, for a while at least, but it would break the destructive national mindset of the state having an endless supply of money and everyone having their own reason to feel entitled to have a share of it.

. 

Why not start by donating yours to charity if you are in receipt of it or making arrangements for the future ?

I am not yet in receipt of it. Not old enough. Im happy for it to start being means tested before I am, as long as the means testing is reasonable. 

Why should you be means tested, you've paid in a lot of money over the years. The trouble with a state funded system is that the f eckless will always be looked after, we can't let people starve, nor go back to workhouses. If means testing were introduced, people would deliberately spend up before retirement, thus ensuring they get the pension. A bit like people who sell, or release equity from, their house to avoid care home fees.
And believe me, Albs, you soon get used to it coming in every month, then realise your budget has grown to accommodate it.

[Rangie]

Funny how it's usually folk who haven't got something want it changed for folk that have, that's life however. Glad I was looking ahead when I was younger to have the foresight to end up with good pensions which I've paid in for & earned unlike the high percentage of no hoper scroungers that this country seems intent of  catering for.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I have two private pensions, plus swmbo has one, plus both state pensions when we retire.
Im speaking about principles, what I believe to be right and wrong. Nothing to do with my individual circumstances or anyone elses.
Doesnt really matter what weve paid in any more Steve. Most of us will take for more out than we put in, one way or another.
The national debt is way past £2 trillion with no sign of slowing down. Its an enormous car crash waiting to happen. Its just a matter of when.
It wont be our generation, but we are knowingly passing it on to future generations, and thats just wrong.

[STEMO]

I have two private pensions, plus swmbo has one, plus both state pensions when we retire.
Im speaking about principles, what I believe to be right and wrong. Nothing to do with my individual circumstances or anyone elses.
Doesnt really matter what weve paid in any more Steve. Most of us will take for more out than we put in, one way or another.
The national debt is way past £2 trillion with no sign of slowing down. Its an enormous car crash waiting to happen. Its just a matter of when.
It wont be our generation, but we are knowingly passing it on to future generations, and thats just wrong.

My generation got the Second World War debt passed on to us, we got through, although we were always skint. Our National debt is so high now partly because of coronavirus, I don't think we can be blamed for that. Two trillion sounds like a huge amount of money but, when I was a lad, a pint of double diamond was 10p, a similar drink would probably be £3-3.50 now, that's inflation. I don't know, but could probably find out, what our debt to GDP ratio is right now. But I'm betting it's not the highest it's ever been.
My only answer to the next generation thing is that we're paying quite a bit to put our lad through uni and, as it's looking highly likely he'll start a PhD in September, that will continue for another three years, so seven in all.
I certainly do not worry about the financial future of our country, simply because there's nothing I, personally, can do about it. We are not in a unique position in the world, and these things have a way of working themselves out. Cheer up, lad 

[STEMO]

Debt as a percentage of gdp was 114% in 2020, it was 240% after the Second World War. We got by, because everyone else was in the same position, as most are now.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Debt as a percentage of gdp was 114% in 2020, it was 240% after the Second World War. We got by, because everyone else was in the same position, as most are now.

If the yanks had really wanted to help they could have let us off.

Are we still paying it back?

[Broomies Mate]

My generation got the Second World War debt passed on to us, we got through, although we were always skint. Our National debt is so high now partly because of coronavirus, I don't think we can be blamed for that. Two trillion sounds like a huge amount of money but, when I was a lad, a pint of double diamond was 10p, a similar drink would probably be £3-3.50 now, that's inflation. I don't know, but could probably find out, what our debt to GDP ratio is right now. But I'm betting it's not the highest it's ever been.
My only answer to the next generation thing is that we're paying quite a bit to put our lad through uni and, as it's looking highly likely he'll start a PhD in September, that will continue for another three years, so seven in all.
I certainly do not worry about the financial future of our country, simply because there's nothing I, personally, can do about it. We are not in a unique position in the world, and these things have a way of working themselves out. Cheer up, lad 

I don't know why (or even if it's possible) for the World Bank and IMF to take a look at each member countries books before Jan 2020, look at their books December 2021 and write off any accumulated debt/print money to repay the spending between the two dates.

If it were Global-wide, it would be fair. 

[omegod]

Debt as a percentage of gdp was 114% in 2020, it was 240% after the Second World War. We got by, because everyone else was in the same position, as most are now.

If the yanks had really wanted to help they could have let us off.

Are we still paying it back?

Last payment was made in 2006 I think !

[STEMO]

Debt as a percentage of gdp was 114% in 2020, it was 240% after the Second World War. We got by, because everyone else was in the same position, as most are now.

If the yanks had really wanted to help they could have let us off.

Are we still paying it back?

Last payment was made in 2006 I think !

Have we paid for the Mersey Tunnel yet? 

[Sir Tigger KC]

My generation got the Second World War debt passed on to us, we got through, although we were always skint. Our National debt is so high now partly because of coronavirus, I don't think we can be blamed for that. Two trillion sounds like a huge amount of money but, when I was a lad, a pint of double diamond was 10p, a similar drink would probably be £3-3.50 now, that's inflation. I don't know, but could probably find out, what our debt to GDP ratio is right now. But I'm betting it's not the highest it's ever been.
My only answer to the next generation thing is that we're paying quite a bit to put our lad through uni and, as it's looking highly likely he'll start a PhD in September, that will continue for another three years, so seven in all.
I certainly do not worry about the financial future of our country, simply because there's nothing I, personally, can do about it. We are not in a unique position in the world, and these things have a way of working themselves out. Cheer up, lad 

I don't know why (or even if it's possible) for the World Bank and IMF to take a look at each member countries books before Jan 2020, look at their books December 2021 and write off any accumulated debt/print money to repay the spending between the two dates.

If it were Global-wide, it would be fair. 

Not on the people, banks and institutions who lent the money it isn't!     

[LC0112G]

My generation got the Second World War debt passed on to us, we got through, although we were always skint. Our National debt is so high now partly because of coronavirus, I don't think we can be blamed for that. Two trillion sounds like a huge amount of money but, when I was a lad, a pint of double diamond was 10p, a similar drink would probably be £3-3.50 now, that's inflation. I don't know, but could probably find out, what our debt to GDP ratio is right now. But I'm betting it's not the highest it's ever been.
My only answer to the next generation thing is that we're paying quite a bit to put our lad through uni and, as it's looking highly likely he'll start a PhD in September, that will continue for another three years, so seven in all.
I certainly do not worry about the financial future of our country, simply because there's nothing I, personally, can do about it. We are not in a unique position in the world, and these things have a way of working themselves out. Cheer up, lad 

I don't know why (or even if it's possible) for the World Bank and IMF to take a look at each member countries books before Jan 2020, look at their books December 2021 and write off any accumulated debt/print money to repay the spending between the two dates.

If it were Global-wide, it would be fair. 

Because governments don't only borrow from other governments. You or I or anyone else can buy government issued bonds and gilts. What happens is you buy a (say) 10 year gilt with a given percentage interest rate. You then get paid that interest for 10 years, and after 10 years the government gives you your original money back.

The private investors that lend the govt money aren't going to be very happy if the govt, World Bank or IMF decided to write off the debt. If that happened then the private investors would either refuse to lend the govt money in the future, or demand a much higher interest rate. Same goes for what happens if the govt just prints money to repay the debt.

The UK have never in it's history defaulted on debt. Markets trust that we won't.  If you lose that trust you end up in a whole world of pain.

[New POD]

Debt as a percentage of gdp was 114% in 2020, it was 240% after the Second World War. We got by, because everyone else was in the same position, as most are now.

If the yanks had really wanted to help they could have let us off.

Are we still paying it back?

Last payment was made in 2006 I think !

Have we paid for the Mersey Tunnel yet? 

Which one ? I pay every time I cross, although since they built the new Runcorn.Widnes bridge it's quicker to avoid going into Liverpool. Unless the bit of the Wirral I'm visiting involves buying a stainless Jetex from Wallasey..

[Mr Skrunts]

The other part of my chat with the Lady in question was the fact she would have Retired now if dates/ages had not changed.

Life isnt too good for her at the moment.  She works for a group looking after a few patiants with severe mental health problems.  She took the job on after doing it as agency work.  She does 4 10 hour night shits, gets paid minium wage with no bonus for shifts or working Bank holidays.  But yet alot of the staff came with the Care Centre when they took over from the NHS which means they are on a better wage and over £20 an hour for Bank Holidays.

She has worked all the way through the Pandemic, caught taxis home because of bus issues.  and all she hoped for was a free bus pass that she has to wait annother 7 years for and may not even use when eligable.

[Nick W]

Because governments don't only borrow from other governments. You or I or anyone else can buy government issued bonds and gilts. What happens is you buy a (say) 10 year gilt with a given percentage interest rate. You then get paid that interest for 10 years, and after 10 years the government gives you your original money back.

The private investors that lend the govt money aren't going to be very happy if the govt, World Bank or IMF decided to write off the debt. If that happened then the private investors would either refuse to lend the govt money in the future, or demand a much higher interest rate. Same goes for what happens if the govt just prints money to repay the debt.

The UK have never in it's history defaulted on debt. Markets trust that we won't.  If you lose that trust you end up in a whole world of pain.

Lending to governments gives a small but safe return, which is perfect for investors that depend on the income. Like pensions.....

[LC0112G]

Because governments don't only borrow from other governments. You or I or anyone else can buy government issued bonds and gilts. What happens is you buy a (say) 10 year gilt with a given percentage interest rate. You then get paid that interest for 10 years, and after 10 years the government gives you your original money back.

The private investors that lend the govt money aren't going to be very happy if the govt, World Bank or IMF decided to write off the debt. If that happened then the private investors would either refuse to lend the govt money in the future, or demand a much higher interest rate. Same goes for what happens if the govt just prints money to repay the debt.

The UK have never in it's history defaulted on debt. Markets trust that we won't.  If you lose that trust you end up in a whole world of pain.

Lending to governments gives a small but safe return, which is perfect for investors that depend on the income. Like pensions.....

Yes, but it's not safe if there is a threat of it being written off by the World Bank or IMF, which appeared to be Broomies Mate's suggestion.

Argentina defaulted on it's national debt in 2001, and then 'nationalised' private pensions in 2008. It's current credit rating is CCC, which means the markets consider it safer to lend money to an unemployed drunk with a gambling habit. The UK is currently AA (was AAA until the 2016 BREXIT vote).
https://www.ft.com/content/d428857e-b77c-11dd-8e01-0000779fd18c

[Nick W]

Because governments don't only borrow from other governments. You or I or anyone else can buy government issued bonds and gilts. What happens is you buy a (say) 10 year gilt with a given percentage interest rate. You then get paid that interest for 10 years, and after 10 years the government gives you your original money back.

The private investors that lend the govt money aren't going to be very happy if the govt, World Bank or IMF decided to write off the debt. If that happened then the private investors would either refuse to lend the govt money in the future, or demand a much higher interest rate. Same goes for what happens if the govt just prints money to repay the debt.

The UK have never in it's history defaulted on debt. Markets trust that we won't.  If you lose that trust you end up in a whole world of pain.

Lending to governments gives a small but safe return, which is perfect for investors that depend on the income. Like pensions.....

Yes, but it's not safe if there is a threat of it being written off by the World Bank or IMF, which appeared to be Broomies Mate's suggestion.

Argentina defaulted on it's national debt in 2001, and then 'nationalised' private pensions in 2008. It's current credit rating is CCC, which means the markets consider it safer to lend money to an unemployed drunk with a gambling habit. The UK is currently AA (was AAA until the 2016 BREXIT vote).
https://www.ft.com/content/d428857e-b77c-11dd-8e01-0000779fd18c

That was my point. I wonder just how enthusiastic people would be about governments defaulting on loans if they knew their paid for  pensions would vanish

[henryd]

I can't see us ever using ours again unless both cars let us down.

Its handy to use the top deck if you want to smoke 😁 oh hang on,maybe thats not allowed anymore,its been a while since Ive been on one