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[Sir Tigger KC]

Thank God we are no longer part of the EU as I, along with many millions of UK citizens, would not have been able to have our injections.

Why? In the UK the authority for drug approval is (and has been since 2003) the MHRA. Here is a list of more than 23000 drugs that the MHRA had approved for use in the UK up to 2015.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/297628/response/731166/attach/3/All%20MAs%20listing.xls?cookie_passthrough=1

The list is a result of a FOI request issued in October 2015, so well before the vote to leave the EU. https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/drug_approval_dates

EU countries can if they wish approve drugs through their own national bodies just like the UK has been doing for 18 years. The EMA is actually a body made up from representatives of many national bodies, although the UK is obviously not now a member. The fact that various countries are dicking about and waiting for the EU/EMA to get their ducks in a row is down to national politics and incompetence. If a country doesn't want to dick about it doesn't have to. Some countries may not have the structures in place, or the scientific know-how, to approve drugs nationally because they have relied on the EMA to do that. Again that's a political decision that they have taken, and perhaps they will review that decision in the light of recent experiences.

Either way, member of the EU or not makes no difference to whether you would have got your jab or not. The rest of your post does have merit though.

Yes it's technically true that as members of the EU Britain could have gone it's own way with the vaccines, but the idea that we would have as members is simply laughable!    

[LC0112G]

Thank God we are no longer part of the EU as I, along with many millions of UK citizens, would not have been able to have our injections.

Why? In the UK the authority for drug approval is (and has been since 2003) the MHRA. Here is a list of more than 23000 drugs that the MHRA had approved for use in the UK up to 2015.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/297628/response/731166/attach/3/All%20MAs%20listing.xls?cookie_passthrough=1

The list is a result of a FOI request issued in October 2015, so well before the vote to leave the EU. https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/drug_approval_dates

EU countries can if they wish approve drugs through their own national bodies just like the UK has been doing for 18 years. The EMA is actually a body made up from representatives of many national bodies, although the UK is obviously not now a member. The fact that various countries are dicking about and waiting for the EU/EMA to get their ducks in a row is down to national politics and incompetence. If a country doesn't want to dick about it doesn't have to. Some countries may not have the structures in place, or the scientific know-how, to approve drugs nationally because they have relied on the EMA to do that. Again that's a political decision that they have taken, and perhaps they will review that decision in the light of recent experiences.

Either way, member of the EU or not makes no difference to whether you would have got your jab or not. The rest of your post does have merit though.

Yes it's technically true that as members of the EU Britain could have gone it's own way with the vaccines, but the idea that we would have as members is simply laughable!    

So why would the EU/EMA be to blame when the UK can, has and did do it's own approvals?

Waiting for the EMA is a national govt decision, not one imposed by the EU. The EMA is basically a committee made up of national representatives, plus a few drug company reps/scientists. The committee sets a meeting schedule, and they meet according to that schedule. It can be 1, 2 or 3 months between meetings. Changing the EMA schedule means many people re-arranging their own schedules - and you have to pick a day when everyone is available. So yes the EMA can be slow, but it gets there in the end.

The real problem in much of mainland Europe is that the general public don't trust this vaccine, or vaccines in general. There are reports from France and Germany that the only people turning up at the doctors clinics are British ex-pats. France supposedly has more than 5 million doses waiting to be used. Politicians are doing what politicians do - blame everyone else except themselves.

[Nick W]

The real problem in much of mainland Europe is that the general public don't trust this vaccine, or vaccines in general. There are reports from France and Germany that the only people turning up at the doctors clinics are British ex-pats. France supposedly has more than 5 million doses waiting to be used. Politicians are doing what politicians do - blame everyone else except themselves.

Which is very difficult to believe when you consider what a bunch of hypochondriacs the French are.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Thank God we are no longer part of the EU as I, along with many millions of UK citizens, would not have been able to have our injections.

Why? In the UK the authority for drug approval is (and has been since 2003) the MHRA. Here is a list of more than 23000 drugs that the MHRA had approved for use in the UK up to 2015.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/297628/response/731166/attach/3/All%20MAs%20listing.xls?cookie_passthrough=1

The list is a result of a FOI request issued in October 2015, so well before the vote to leave the EU. https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/drug_approval_dates

EU countries can if they wish approve drugs through their own national bodies just like the UK has been doing for 18 years. The EMA is actually a body made up from representatives of many national bodies, although the UK is obviously not now a member. The fact that various countries are dicking about and waiting for the EU/EMA to get their ducks in a row is down to national politics and incompetence. If a country doesn't want to dick about it doesn't have to. Some countries may not have the structures in place, or the scientific know-how, to approve drugs nationally because they have relied on the EMA to do that. Again that's a political decision that they have taken, and perhaps they will review that decision in the light of recent experiences.

Either way, member of the EU or not makes no difference to whether you would have got your jab or not. The rest of your post does have merit though.

Yes it's technically true that as members of the EU Britain could have gone it's own way with the vaccines, but the idea that we would have as members is simply laughable!    

So why would the EU/EMA be to blame when the UK can, has and did do it's own approvals?

Waiting for the EMA is a national govt decision, not one imposed by the EU. The EMA is basically a committee made up of national representatives, plus a few drug company reps/scientists. The committee sets a meeting schedule, and they meet according to that schedule. It can be 1, 2 or 3 months between meetings. Changing the EMA schedule means many people re-arranging their own schedules - and you have to pick a day when everyone is available. So yes the EMA can be slow, but it gets there in the end.

The real problem in much of mainland Europe is that the general public don't trust this vaccine, or vaccines in general. There are reports from France and Germany that the only people turning up at the doctors clinics are British ex-pats. France supposedly has more than 5 million doses waiting to be used. Politicians are doing what politicians do - blame everyone else except themselves.

So are you saying that Britain would have approved the vaccines without waiting for the EMA if we were still members of the EU? 

I don't believe so.  The EMA was based in London when we were members and it would have been an extraordinary political vote of no confidence in an EU agency based on our own soil if we had gone ahead with our own vaccine roll out based on the emergency approval from the MHRA without waiting for the EMA. 

Anyway, the EU vaccine programme is more than just the approvals from the EMA, and takes in the purchase and allocation of the vaccines as well, which they've basically cocked up on a grand scale. 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

The reason people in Europe dont trust the AZ vaccine is because their politicians have spent the last couple of months telling them not to trust it, for purely political reasons.
So they are really playing politics with the lives of their electors.
Lower than a snakes gonads in a cart rut. 
I genuinely believe we are seeing the start of the process where the whole rotten edifice starts to crumble and disintegrate.
Its just a matter of time.

[Varche]

Bit of Spanish news. While we are still waiting for our vaccinations and have lockdown continuing to Easter and maybe beyond....... with talk of a third wave.

The French have been and continue to come on holiday to Madrid.

The Germans and Swiss are booking Easter 2021 holidays to Murcia ( between Valencia and Malaga).

You couldn’t make it up.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Meanwhile it's been reported that the EU Parliament's budget committee has voted 38-3 in favour of spending €4.2m of taxpayers' cash on an exclusive vaccine centre for MEPs and their staff, as well as ramping up their current state-of-the-art testing facility. 

[Varche]

Gosh, I wished I had tendered or that . Could have made £4.1 million profit.........

[LC0112G]

So are you saying that Britain would have approved the vaccines without waiting for the EMA if we were still members of the EU? 

I don't believe so.  The EMA was based in London when we were members and it would have been an extraordinary political vote of no confidence in an EU agency based on our own soil if we had gone ahead with our own vaccine roll out based on the emergency approval from the MHRA without waiting for the EMA. 

I think we would have. I mean MHRA has only licensed 23 thousand drugs between 2003 and 2015. One more would make little difference. 

Everyone in the industry knows that the EMA can be a burocratic quagmire whereas the MHRA are (slightly) more straightforward to deal with. Ultimatley it's up to national politicians who they listen to for approvals, so Boris is free to ask the drug companies to submit to the MHRA or wait for the EMA. Your belief is therefore that Boris would have decided to wait for the EMA. Anything is possible with that eejit, but I think even he would have realised the MHRA were a faster route to approval.

I've been told (by someone that deals with both the EMA and MHRA) that about one quarter of the EMA decision making staff were actually MHRA employees seconded to the EMA. Another quarter were drug company experts. One of the reasons for the recent EMA slow response is because of their moving out of London, and having to find new staff.

Anyway, the EU vaccine programme is more than just the approvals from the EMA, and takes in the purchase and allocation of the vaccines as well, which they've basically cocked up on a grand scale. 

No argument from me there. However the UK program is also more than just the MHRA. Once a drug is approved for use, NICE (in England - or one of the other 3 bodies in the other home nations), has to approve the drug for NHS use. Plenty of drugs are approved by EMA/HMRA but unavailable on the NHS - usually but not always because of cost.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Thank God we are no longer part of the EU as I, along with many millions of UK citizens, would not have been able to have our injections.

Why? In the UK the authority for drug approval is (and has been since 2003) the MHRA. Here is a list of more than 23000 drugs that the MHRA had approved for use in the UK up to 2015.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/297628/response/731166/attach/3/All%20MAs%20listing.xls?cookie_passthrough=1

The list is a result of a FOI request issued in October 2015, so well before the vote to leave the EU. https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/drug_approval_dates

EU countries can if they wish approve drugs through their own national bodies just like the UK has been doing for 18 years. The EMA is actually a body made up from representatives of many national bodies, although the UK is obviously not now a member. The fact that various countries are dicking about and waiting for the EU/EMA to get their ducks in a row is down to national politics and incompetence. If a country doesn't want to dick about it doesn't have to. Some countries may not have the structures in place, or the scientific know-how, to approve drugs nationally because they have relied on the EMA to do that. Again that's a political decision that they have taken, and perhaps they will review that decision in the light of recent experiences.

Either way, member of the EU or not makes no difference to whether you would have got your jab or not. The rest of your post does have merit though.

Yes it's technically true that as members of the EU Britain could have gone it's own way with the vaccines, but the idea that we would have as members is simply laughable!    

[/highlight]
Exactly right Sir Tigger

That is what I believe, as if we had still been a member we would have waited until the whole of the EU agreed to order millions of supplies of the vaccine in advance.  Boris did not wait as the UK was under no obligation to wait for a green light from the inefficient EU, and in fact promoted the development of the research and the building of plant to produce the vaccines.  As part of the EU that would not have happened and thus, as I said, I and millions of our fellow UK citizens would not have received our jabs by now, as many millions of EU citizens have not and will not for some weeks.

[LC0112G]

That I what I believe, as if we had still been a member we would have waited until the whole of the EU agreed to order millions of supplies of the vaccine in advance.  Boris did not wait as the UK was under no obligation to wait for a green light from the inefficient EU, and in fact promoted the development of the research and the building of plant to produce the vaccines.  As part of the EU that would not have happened and thus, as I said, I and millions of our fellow UK citizens would not have received our jabs by now, as many millions of EU citizens have not and will not for some weeks.

There's non so blind as those that won't see.

[Lizzie Zoom]

That I what I believe, as if we had still been a member we would have waited until the whole of the EU agreed to order millions of supplies of the vaccine in advance.  Boris did not wait as the UK was under no obligation to wait for a green light from the inefficient EU, and in fact promoted the development of the research and the building of plant to produce the vaccines.  As part of the EU that would not have happened and thus, as I said, I and millions of our fellow UK citizens would not have received our jabs by now, as many millions of EU citizens have not and will not for some weeks.

There's non so blind as those that won't see.

What, see the inefficiency of the EU and know we as a country would not better off in terms of vaccinations if still in it?

I see the daily reports of the state of play in the EU countries, but perhaps YOU are so blind as you cannot see it?

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

BREAKING NEWS.

France and Germany have suspended the Astra Zeneca vaccine program amid concerns it attracts moving objects, after a man was run over by a bus when leaving a Vaccination centre. 

[Lizzie Zoom]

BREAKING NEWS.

France and Germany have suspended the Astra Zeneca vaccine program amid concerns it attracts moving objects, after a man was run over by a bus when leaving a Vaccination centre. 

 

About sums it all up!

[Sir Tigger KC]

Your belief is therefore that Boris would have decided to wait for the EMA. Anything is possible with that eejit, but I think even he would have realised the MHRA were a faster route to approval.

Ah but you are assuming that Boris would still be PM if BREXIT had never happened which is unlikely. 

If BREXIT had never happened, David Cameron would have either stayed on as Tory leader and PM until the 2020 election and run again for a third term, or he would have stood down before the 2020 election to make way for a new leader probably George Osborne.  The Labour leader of course would very probably been Jeremy Corbyn.    So in the alternate reality, we would have had either PM Cameron, Osborne or Corbyn, and of the three I can only think that Cameron would have vetoed Britain joining the EU vaccine programme. 

Of course it's also possible that the 2020 election would have been cancelled because of Covid, in which case we would have either had PM Cameron or Osborne.   

The other thing which you are discounting is the pro-EU culture in Whitehall.  I'd imagine that the Sir Humphries were very against the UK not taking part in the EU's vaccine scheme, even though we left the EU, as there were accusations of petty nationalism and the like when it was announced that the UK was buying it's own vaccines.  So if we'd have never left, especially if we'd voted to stay in the EU in 2016 the pressure for us to take part in the EU's vaccine programme would  have been immense and I'd have thought that it would have been deemed unthinkable not to take part.