Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[STEMO]

Yes! Or, maybe not. 

[LC0112G]

Your belief is therefore that Boris would have decided to wait for the EMA. Anything is possible with that eejit, but I think even he would have realised the MHRA were a faster route to approval.

Ah but you are assuming that Boris would still be PM if BREXIT had never happened which is unlikely. 

If BREXIT had never happened, David Cameron would have either stayed on as Tory leader and PM until the 2020 election and run again for a third term, or he would have stood down before the 2020 election to make way for a new leader probably George Osborne.  The Labour leader of course would very probably been Jeremy Corbyn.    So in the alternate reality, we would have had either PM Cameron, Osborne or Corbyn, and of the three I can only think that Cameron would have vetoed Britain joining the EU vaccine programme. 

Of course it's also possible that the 2020 election would have been cancelled because of Covid, in which case we would have either had PM Cameron or Osborne.   

The other thing which you are discounting is the pro-EU culture in Whitehall.  I'd imagine that the Sir Humphries were very against the UK not taking part in the EU's vaccine scheme, even though we left the EU, as there were accusations of petty nationalism and the like when it was announced that the UK was buying it's own vaccines.  So if we'd have never left, especially if we'd voted to stay in the EU in 2016 the pressure for us to take part in the EU's vaccine programme would  have been immense and I'd have thought that it would have been deemed unthinkable not to take part. 

Yes, but that's my point. It's up to the elected representatives of each country to decide what happens in their own country. We elected Boris, and we basically know what he has done. We can't know with any certainty what Cameron, May, Osborne or Corbyn would have done. We do know there is nothing in EU rules that would stop any of them doing exactly what Boris has done. Or they could have devolved responsibility to the EU and it's institutions. However, the point is that if they had decided to devolve then I would hold THEM responsible for any subsequent failures, not the devolved authority.

If a politician can't stand up to EU pressure on a topic that they believe can be done better locally, then they shouldn't be in politics.

[LC0112G]

That I what I believe, as if we had still been a member we would have waited until the whole of the EU agreed to order millions of supplies of the vaccine in advance.  Boris did not wait as the UK was under no obligation to wait for a green light from the inefficient EU, and in fact promoted the development of the research and the building of plant to produce the vaccines.  As part of the EU that would not have happened and thus, as I said, I and millions of our fellow UK citizens would not have received our jabs by now, as many millions of EU citizens have not and will not for some weeks.

There's non so blind as those that won't see.

What, see the inefficiency of the EU and know we as a country would not better off in terms of vaccinations if still in it?

I see the daily reports of the state of play in the EU countries, but perhaps YOU are so blind as you cannot see it?

Being in or out of the EU has nothing to do with health matters. Each country can chose to follow the EU route, or it can setup it's own schemes. The UK has had it's own schemes in place since 2003 at least.

If we/Boris had decided to join the EU schemes then yes we'd possibly/probably be in the same mess as much of mainland Europe. But we didn't have to, and didn't. Germany/France didn't have to, but did. That decision was down to German/French politicians not EU ones. The German/French politicians will happily blame the EU if/when it goes wrong, particularly when the pressure comes on them because the go-it-alone route appears to be working better elsewhere (i.e. the UK)

[Shackeng]

Had we remained as a cheerleading member of the EU, regardless of our ability to have chosen our own vaccine programme, and given the already fragile relationships between various other member states, it would have been politically unthinkable that we would not have encouraged all members to join in an EU wide vaccination programme.

[Nick W]

Had we remained as a cheerleading member of the EU, regardless of our ability to have chosen our own vaccine programme, and given the already fragile relationships between various other member states, it would have been politically unthinkable that we would not have encouraged all members to join in an EU wide vaccination programme.

We were never a cheerleading member of the EU
After joining we acted like a stroppy teenager in detention.
Which is why we never got the full benefit of being part of it.

[LC0112G]

Had we remained as a cheerleading member of the EU, regardless of our ability to have chosen our own vaccine programme, and given the already fragile relationships between various other member states, it would have been politically unthinkable that we would not have encouraged all members to join in an EU wide vaccination programme.

Which again is due to the conviction or spinelessness (delete as required) of national politicians, not the EU.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Had we remained as a cheerleading member of the EU, regardless of our ability to have chosen our own vaccine programme, and given the already fragile relationships between various other member states, it would have been politically unthinkable that we would not have encouraged all members to join in an EU wide vaccination programme.

We were never a cheerleading member of the EU
After joining we acted like a stroppy teenager in detention.
Which is why we never got the full benefit of being part of it.

Like we never got to join the Euro for example?   

Or maybe you mean Schengen?                     

 

[Shackeng]

Had we remained as a cheerleading member of the EU, regardless of our ability to have chosen our own vaccine programme, and given the already fragile relationships between various other member states, it would have been politically unthinkable that we would not have encouraged all members to join in an EU wide vaccination programme.

We were never a cheerleading member of the EU
After joining we acted like a stroppy teenager in detention.
Which is why we never got the full benefit of being part of it.

You have a short memory Nick, we were under Cameron until the Brexit vote.

[Nick W]

Had we remained as a cheerleading member of the EU, regardless of our ability to have chosen our own vaccine programme, and given the already fragile relationships between various other member states, it would have been politically unthinkable that we would not have encouraged all members to join in an EU wide vaccination programme.

We were never a cheerleading member of the EU
After joining we acted like a stroppy teenager in detention.
Which is why we never got the full benefit of being part of it.

You have a short memory Nick, we were under Cameron until the Brexit vote.

So?


As one of the top three economies in the EU we should have used that to be a political power, like Germany does. That could have included reducing the terrible inefficiencies, overarching political ambitions like an EU military, the unaffordable single currency etc. Basically, that's keeping the idea of the EEC changing into the EU. That it did so was always the politicians intent since the idea was originally mooted post WW2


Instead we just rolled over and played dead, moaning all the time about how unfair it all was.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Cameron went and begged Merkel for a temporary brake on immigration to shoot the Brexiteer fox. She judged that the Brits wouldnt vote to leave no matter what, so told him to far cough. And the rest is history.
The UK never had much power within the EU. Power is held mainly by the Germans and to some extent the French.
All we ever really did was give them lots of our money to spend how they saw fit.

[Andy B]

Cameron went and begged Merkel for a temporary brake on immigration to shoot the Brexiteer fox. She judged that the Brits wouldnt vote to leave no matter what, so told him to far cough. And the rest is history.
The UK never had much power within the EU. Power is held mainly by the Germans and to some extent the French.
All we ever really did was give them lots of our money to spend how they saw fit.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Meanwhile, did anyone see sleepy Joe fall up the stairs, three times, while trying to board Air Force 1 today ! ? 
Commie Harris could be Commander in chief by Christmas, by the look of him. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Cameron went and begged Merkel for a temporary brake on immigration to shoot the Brexiteer fox. She judged that the Brits wouldnt vote to leave no matter what, so told him to far cough. And the rest is history.
The UK never had much power within the EU. Power is held mainly by the Germans and to some extent the French.
All we ever really did was give them lots of our money to spend how they saw fit.

A good example was Tony Blair giving up a large chuck of Thatcher's hard won budget rebate in return for the reform of the CAP, which never happened. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Meanwhile, did anyone see sleepy Joe fall up the stairs, three times, while trying to board Air Force 1 today ! ? 
Commie Harris could be Commander in chief by Christmas, by the look of him. 

Yes can you imagine the wall to wall coverage if Trump had tripped up like that? 

He's got off to a great start with his foreign policy as well, calling Putin a killer and already having a spat with the Chinese.   

And still no press conference..... 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Meanwhile, did anyone see sleepy Joe fall up the stairs, three times, while trying to board Air Force 1 today ! ? 
Commie Harris could be Commander in chief by Christmas, by the look of him. 

With his physical prowess failing the voters are lucky his intellectual capacity remains undiminished.