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[Nickbat]

Wait until you've been cut out of the wreckage with your feet & ankles snapped & bent the wrong way under the seat, the pedals buried in your shins, the dash & bulkhead buried in your knees, your nose broken, face all smashed & cut by going through the windscreen only to have the steering wheel save you going through the screen but breaking 5 ribs in the process. The engine is revving it's tits off & you can't get out or reach to switch off. ....will it go bang? Thankfully it did'nt. I've been there. Unless you have i suggest you think before deciding what these guys & girls should be paid & thier working conditions. What the hell do you know?
    One day you might be glad to see them.

It's got nothing to do with what they do. The same could be said for police, military, doctors, surgeons and many others. They are paid by us, the taxpayer. We have a perfect right in a democracy to express our opinions. They have a job to do and, by and large, they do it well. However, this is not about their pay, it is about their union refusing, over a period of five years, to accept a small change in shift patterns.

Although doctors, paramedics, ambulance crews, firemen etc. are on the front line, it does not give them the right to dictate the terms of their employment.

Simples.

Equally, it doesn't mean their employer can forcefully impose terms of employment under pain of losing their jobs.

Simples

FFS, after five years of negotiation, I feel the Brigade has the right to call an end to all this. After all, they are in charge. 

[Proz]

Equally, it doesn't mean their employer can forcefully impose terms of employment under pain of losing their jobs

Again i couldnt agree more  .... are we really to let bully boy tactics rule ??
Seems some people think so ... hopefully the bully boy tactics arn't played on them some day  :-/

[Nickbat]

Equally, it doesn't mean their employer can forcefully impose terms of employment under pain of losing their jobs

Again i couldnt agree more  .... are we really to let bully boy tactics rule ??
Seems some people think so  :-/

Bully boy tactics are calling strikes on 5th November.

[Proz]

Equally, it doesn't mean their employer can forcefully impose terms of employment under pain of losing their jobs

Again i couldnt agree more  .... are we really to let bully boy tactics rule ??
Seems some people think so  :-/

Bully boy tactics are calling strikes on 5th November.

In your opinion that is  .... my opinion says they have the right to withdraw there labour when feeling threatened etc .
Doesnt make any difference to me if they strike or not but i admire them for standing for what they belive in .
Dont you belive in workers rights 

[geoffr70]

Wait until you've been cut out of the wreckage with your feet & ankles snapped & bent the wrong way under the seat, the pedals buried in your shins, the dash & bulkhead buried in your knees, your nose broken, face all smashed & cut by going through the windscreen only to have the steering wheel save you going through the screen but breaking 5 ribs in the process. The engine is revving it's tits off & you can't get out or reach to switch off. ....will it go bang? Thankfully it did'nt. I've been there. Unless you have i suggest you think before deciding what these guys & girls should be paid & thier working conditions. What the hell do you know?
    One day you might be glad to see them.

It's got nothing to do with what they do. The same could be said for police, military, doctors, surgeons and many others. They are paid by us, the taxpayer. We have a perfect right in a democracy to express our opinions. They have a job to do and, by and large, they do it well. However, this is not about their pay, it is about their union refusing, over a period of five years, to accept a small change in shift patterns.

Although doctors, paramedics, ambulance crews, firemen etc. are on the front line, it does not give them the right to dictate the terms of their employment.

Simples.

Equally, it doesn't mean their employer can forcefully impose terms of employment under pain of losing their jobs.

Simples

FFS, after five years of negotiation, I feel the Brigade has the right to call an end to all this. After all, they are in charge. 

They are not in charge at all, I don't know why you would think that.

A contract is signed between two parties, employer and employee.

Both parties agrees to certain conditions, the main ones being: employee turns up, does work, goes home, gets paid.

Where does it say the employer is in charge of a massive change in the conditions, merely for its own benefit, without consultation, and under threat of being sacked? The relationship is mutually beneficial, just because the employer is 'bigger', or has more money doesn't mean they're in charge.

I think there is an opening to be the leader of 'The Dictator Party'. You should apply for it Nickbat. Actually don't apply for it, just tell them you are now in charge, and if they don't like it, throw them out.

[aaronjb]

ISTR that in the private sector employers can usually change contracts at will as long as they provide notice of such changes, and that your 'continuing to receive remuneration' serves as acceptance of the contract - your alternative being to walk and find a new job..

Of course it wouldn't work out so well for the rest of us if all the firefighters walked and got new jobs..

[Nickbat]

Wait until you've been cut out of the wreckage with your feet & ankles snapped & bent the wrong way under the seat, the pedals buried in your shins, the dash & bulkhead buried in your knees, your nose broken, face all smashed & cut by going through the windscreen only to have the steering wheel save you going through the screen but breaking 5 ribs in the process. The engine is revving it's tits off & you can't get out or reach to switch off. ....will it go bang? Thankfully it did'nt. I've been there. Unless you have i suggest you think before deciding what these guys & girls should be paid & thier working conditions. What the hell do you know?
    One day you might be glad to see them.

It's got nothing to do with what they do. The same could be said for police, military, doctors, surgeons and many others. They are paid by us, the taxpayer. We have a perfect right in a democracy to express our opinions. They have a job to do and, by and large, they do it well. However, this is not about their pay, it is about their union refusing, over a period of five years, to accept a small change in shift patterns.

Although doctors, paramedics, ambulance crews, firemen etc. are on the front line, it does not give them the right to dictate the terms of their employment.

Simples.

Equally, it doesn't mean their employer can forcefully impose terms of employment under pain of losing their jobs.

Simples

FFS, after five years of negotiation, I feel the Brigade has the right to call an end to all this. After all, they are in charge. 

They are not in charge at all, I don't know why you would think that.

A contract is signed between two parties, employer and employee.

Both parties agrees to certain conditions, the main ones being: employee turns up, does work, goes home, gets paid.

Where does it say the employer is in charge of a massive change in the conditions, merely for its own benefit, without consultation, and under threat of being sacked? The relationship is mutually beneficial, just because the employer is 'bigger', or has more money doesn't mean they're in charge.

I think there is an opening to be the leader of 'The Dictator Party'. You should apply for it Nickbat. Actually don't apply for it, just tell them you are now in charge, and if they don't like it, throw them out.

WITHOUT CONSULTATION? They've been consulting for five years!!!

..and  (LFB quote follows)

"By reducing the current 15 hour night shift to 12 hours, and increasing the current 9 hour day shift to 12 hours, therefore providing a longer day shift. Firefighters will continue to work two day shifts followed by two night shifts then have four days off. "

That is hardly a "massive" change.

BTW, calling me a dictator is bizarre. I merely have an opinion as to the functioning of the London Fire Brigade. Clearly, you think that that the workers should tell management how they should work and management should say "OK, then".

 

[Proz]

Like wise you think the managment should have the right to say were changing your agreed shift patterns wether you like it or not ... oh and if you dont like it your sacked 

[Amigo]

We could all go on expressing our views 'til the cows come home. Nick you've appointed yourself wilfully or not as the forums Jeremy Drone..sorry, Vine. You're up on commerce, media, politics, finance & general news which involves working conditions & should it ever get to the nitty gritty i'd lose against you bigtime debate wise. However your over used argument that these folk put themselves forward & only do a job like the rest of us carries no weight whatsoever. I drive a truck to turn a coin, a civilian everyday job as most of us here do. Some are engineers, mechanics, security guards, shop & factory workers, office & IT workers, the list could go on . I don't know what you do for a living. In all your time sharing your infinite wisdom with the rest of us in the cheap seats you hav'nt as yet shared this with us. I don't possess the knowledge, courage & most importantly the dedication that every Fireman, Policeman, Soldier, Nurse, Ambulance medic, male & female have to carry out thier duties against getting beaten up on a call by idiots, being underpaid & unappreciated in having to deal with things most of us would shy away from & you consider it thier own choice of career then try it yourself brave man. You talk the talk. Walk a mile in thier shoes. I would'nt. Until you will i suggest you go back to the benches & keep quiet.

[geoffr70]

Wait until you've been cut out of the wreckage with your feet & ankles snapped & bent the wrong way under the seat, the pedals buried in your shins, the dash & bulkhead buried in your knees, your nose broken, face all smashed & cut by going through the windscreen only to have the steering wheel save you going through the screen but breaking 5 ribs in the process. The engine is revving it's tits off & you can't get out or reach to switch off. ....will it go bang? Thankfully it did'nt. I've been there. Unless you have i suggest you think before deciding what these guys & girls should be paid & thier working conditions. What the hell do you know?
    One day you might be glad to see them.

It's got nothing to do with what they do. The same could be said for police, military, doctors, surgeons and many others. They are paid by us, the taxpayer. We have a perfect right in a democracy to express our opinions. They have a job to do and, by and large, they do it well. However, this is not about their pay, it is about their union refusing, over a period of five years, to accept a small change in shift patterns.

Although doctors, paramedics, ambulance crews, firemen etc. are on the front line, it does not give them the right to dictate the terms of their employment.

Simples.

Equally, it doesn't mean their employer can forcefully impose terms of employment under pain of losing their jobs.

Simples

FFS, after five years of negotiation, I feel the Brigade has the right to call an end to all this. After all, they are in charge. 

They are not in charge at all, I don't know why you would think that.

A contract is signed between two parties, employer and employee.

Both parties agrees to certain conditions, the main ones being: employee turns up, does work, goes home, gets paid.

Where does it say the employer is in charge of a massive change in the conditions, merely for its own benefit, without consultation, and under threat of being sacked? The relationship is mutually beneficial, just because the employer is 'bigger', or has more money doesn't mean they're in charge.

I think there is an opening to be the leader of 'The Dictator Party'. You should apply for it Nickbat. Actually don't apply for it, just tell them you are now in charge, and if they don't like it, throw them out.

WITHOUT CONSULTATION? They've been consulting for five years!!!

..and  (LFB quote follows)

"By reducing the current 15 hour night shift to 12 hours, and increasing the current 9 hour day shift to 12 hours, therefore providing a longer day shift. Firefighters will continue to work two day shifts followed by two night shifts then have four days off. "

That is hardly a "massive" change.

BTW, calling me a dictator is bizarre. I merely have an opinion as to the functioning of the London Fire Brigade. Clearly, you think that that the workers should tell management how they should work and management should say "OK, then".

 

Their understanding of consultation is: Do this or we'll sack you.

Nickbat, if you re-read my post you will see i don't think the workers should tell the employers how it's going to be. It is a two way relationship that LFB are trying to abuse, which has now backfired on them.

I likened you to a dictator because your posts seem to suggest that you think it's ok to tell people what to do, and expect them to do it, without question, otherwise they will suffer a misfortune of some sort.

[Proz]

We could all go on expressing our views 'til the cows come home. Nick you've appointed yourself wilfully or not as the forums Jeremy Drone..sorry, Vine. You're up on commerce, media, politics, finance & general news which involves working conditions & should it ever get to the nitty gritty i'd lose against you bigtime debate wise. However your over used argument that these folk put themselves forward & only do a job like the rest of us carries no weight whatsoever. I drive a truck to turn a coin, a civilian everyday job as most of us here do. Some are engineers, mechanics, security guards, shop & factory workers, office & IT workers, the list could go on . I don't know what you do for a living. In all your time sharing your infinite wisdom with the rest of us in the cheap seats you hav'nt as yet shared this with us. I don't possess the knowledge, courage & most importantly the dedication that every Fireman, Policeman, Soldier, Nurse, Ambulance medic, male & female have to carry out thier duties against getting beaten up on a call by idiots, being underpaid & unappreciated in having to deal with things most of us would shy away from & you consider it thier own choice of career then try it yourself brave man. You talk the talk. Walk a mile in thier shoes. I would'nt. Until you will i suggest you go back to the benches & keep quiet.

 

[Vamps]

Time for the Bus Thread I think.................

[Nickbat]

We could all go on expressing our views 'til the cows come home. Nick you've appointed yourself wilfully or not as the forums Jeremy Drone..sorry, Vine. You're up on commerce, media, politics, finance & general news which involves working conditions & should it ever get to the nitty gritty i'd lose against you bigtime debate wise. However your over used argument that these folk put themselves forward & only do a job like the rest of us carries no weight whatsoever. I drive a truck to turn a coin, a civilian everyday job as most of us here do. Some are engineers, mechanics, security guards, shop & factory workers, office & IT workers, the list could go on . I don't know what you do for a living. In all your time sharing your infinite wisdom with the rest of us in the cheap seats you hav'nt as yet shared this with us. I don't possess the knowledge, courage & most importantly the dedication that every Fireman, Policeman, Soldier, Nurse, Ambulance medic, male & female have to carry out thier duties against getting beaten up on a call by idiots, being underpaid & unappreciated in having to deal with things most of us would shy away from & you consider it thier own choice of career then try it yourself brave man. You talk the talk. Walk a mile in thier shoes. I would'nt. Until you will i suggest you go back to the benches & keep quiet.

Yes I have mentioned my occupation. I'm a self employed graphic designer with no job security, no health benefits and no company pension. I am not complaining, though, it's my choice.

The fact that I did not choose to be a firefighter, a police officer or crew an ambulance does not prevent me from having an opinion. As a taxpayer, living in a democracy, I have every right to express my views about public services.

Who the hell gave you the right to tell me to keep quiet? 

I thought we were allowed to express our thoughts on here? 

If others share your views, I am perfectly willing to  leave the forum lest I upset people.   

[geoffr70]

Anyway, being more general, I like to think we're all important in this society. Everyone does an important job in their own way, in one way or another. I'm behind the firefighters on this one, but being a firefighter myself (not LFB), my job is hard sometimes (I still enjoy the hard bits), it is my career choice.

I think more thanks should go to the people in our society who work the hardest, and get paid the least, with the worst conditions.

Take care workers for example, they probably work the hardest, the longest, doing unpleasant things everyday, in the worst conditions, with little thanks, low pay and no complaints. They get looked down on whether people admit it or not. What a sad state of affair when you work the hardest for the least, especially in a caring role!

There is a big imbalance in society, 'hero' footballers being an example!

[Amigo]

We could all go on expressing our views 'til the cows come home. Nick you've appointed yourself wilfully or not as the forums Jeremy Drone..sorry, Vine. You're up on commerce, media, politics, finance & general news which involves working conditions & should it ever get to the nitty gritty i'd lose against you bigtime debate wise. However your over used argument that these folk put themselves forward & only do a job like the rest of us carries no weight whatsoever. I drive a truck to turn a coin, a civilian everyday job as most of us here do. Some are engineers, mechanics, security guards, shop & factory workers, office & IT workers, the list could go on . I don't know what you do for a living. In all your time sharing your infinite wisdom with the rest of us in the cheap seats you hav'nt as yet shared this with us. I don't possess the knowledge, courage & most importantly the dedication that every Fireman, Policeman, Soldier, Nurse, Ambulance medic, male & female have to carry out thier duties against getting beaten up on a call by idiots, being underpaid & unappreciated in having to deal with things most of us would shy away from & you consider it thier own choice of career then try it yourself brave man. You talk the talk. Walk a mile in thier shoes. I would'nt. Until you will i suggest you go back to the benches & keep quiet.

Yes I have mentioned my occupation. I'm a self employed graphic designer with no job security, no health benefits and no company pension. I am not complaining, though, it's my choice.

The fact that I did not choose to be a firefighter, a police officer or crew an ambulance does not prevent me from having an opinion. As a taxpayer, living in a democracy, I have every right to express my views about public services.

Who the hell gave you the right to tell me to keep quiet? 

I thought we were allowed to express our thoughts on here? 

If others share your views, I am perfectly willing to   leave here lest I upset people.   

I don't want you to leave Nick & of cousre you can express your thoughts on here, we both just have. I just find it hard to understand given you're not thick we both hold civilian jobs how little you think our emergency services/forces are worth.
   Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Guy.