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[Lizzie Zoom]

Carried out my yearly service today, but the major one that I do every four years based on the mileage I do.

Must be getting older as everything I did was more difficult.   Usual trouble in getting to spark plug 6, but after much cursing the idiots who designed so much in the way of this plug that I have wasted hours on over the years, I finally extracted it.  But, worse to come, was when I found two of the rubber boots on the DIS Pack, on that side of the engine, had split, then the spring contact on one of them became detached from the unit, and fell off somewhere at the front of the engine; lost for now, even after much searching with a torch!!

Anyway, made temporary repairs to the two boots, then fashioned a new spring from copper wire I have in stock.  Put it all back together, fired up the engine and all works!

But, as I know my repairs are temp., contacted my Vx dealer for a new DIS Pack;  Part no 9118115 - Bosch 0221503027 Not available!!!  Even if they were, ONE would be £300+  !!!!

Anyway, after ringing around, looked up the part on Amazon and have now ordered via them the Bosch one from the Green Spark Plug Co. for £97-19 with Prime delivery.  I could have obtained a Starline DIS Pack from ECP for £76-55, but I much prefer an original Bosch.

So now after re-fitting the plenum and everything else, I can now look forward to stripping it all down again!!

I also know I have a slight exhaust pipe leak which I am getting fully underneath the car tomorrow to check out.  This must be done as my MOT is due early February, so more bloody expense!

Owning a 18.5 year old Omega is never going to be easy, nor cheap, but hey ho, the one great thing I discovered today was there NO OIL in the spark plug holes.  Last time the breathers were fully cleaned it was by Serek when he replaced the cam cover gaskets, and cam belt to boot.  He must have done the great job I believed he had done!   Needless to say I have fully cleaned ouit the breathers today.

I just wish Serek and SOS were closer, although he should be doing the cam belt this year.

[Nick W]

You don't need a new pack; the boots off another, failed one would do. Somebody here is bound to have some.

[Lizzie Zoom]

You don't need a new pack; the boots off another, failed one would do. Somebody here is bound to have some.

Thanks Nick, but the missing spring is the problem and although with great expertise ( )  I have fashioned a replacement, I know it is only a temp. repair.  The DIS Pack may go anytime I believe, given its age, so I have jumped in with both feet to get a good replacement whilst I can!

Once again though Nick, thanks for your advise which as always is most welcome!

[TheBoy]

Also if its the coil pack over the 2/4/6 bank, no need to remove plenum.  I used to be able to do mine in about 15mins, and that included removing the LPG injectors, though my plastic cable tray was on the shelf in the garage, so that saved a few minutes

[TheBoy]

The coil packs probably need replacing occasionally on these anyway.  If the old one is still servicable (not swelling or clear rust visible where the plastic gets hairline cracks, keep as a spare, and acquire some replacement boots.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Also if its the coil pack over the 2/4/6 bank, no need to remove plenum.  I used to be able to do mine in about 15mins, and that included removing the LPG injectors, though my plastic cable tray was on the shelf in the garage, so that saved a few minutes

That's interesting and useful TB.   

If I can do that it will certainly save me time (and much cursing!).  My plastic cable tray is still in place, so perhaps I should try and remove it?

I seem to remember on a past 3.0 I did do that

[Lizzie Zoom]

The coil packs probably need replacing occasionally on these anyway.  If the old one is still servicable (not swelling or clear rust visible where the plastic gets hairline cracks, keep as a spare, and acquire some replacement boots.

Good thinking!  Along with Nick's great advice, I will do that

Any spare boots out there anyone??

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

You don't need a new pack; the boots off another, failed one would do. Somebody here is bound to have some.

I have a knackered 135 coil pack somewhere. It's cracked and rusty but the rubbers are fine.

[Lizzie Zoom]

You don't need a new pack; the boots off another, failed one would do. Somebody here is bound to have some.

I have a knackered 135 coil pack somewhere. It's cracked and rusty but the rubbers are fine.

That's very kind of you Opti!

I take it the 135 coil pack is the same as my DIS Pack on my 3.2?  If so send me a PM and I will pay you to send just the three boots for spares.  Many thanks. 

[TheBoy]

Your Omega doesnt have a DIS, it has coil packs

[Lizzie Zoom]

Your Omega doesnt have a DIS, it has coil packs

Really?  The part I am buying (with pictures that are the same as mine) is described as a "DIS Pack".  I remember replacing the unit behind the engine that distributed the sparks on a long gone 3.0, and I thought that was a coil pack.

Well, as I always say, we never stop learning; everyday a school day!

[TheBoy]

My understanding is a DIS is the term usually used for a wasted spark, and coil/coilpack for non wasted spark?

[Lizzie Zoom]

My understanding is a DIS is the term usually used for a wasted spark, and coil/coilpack for non wasted spark?

Now, not for the first time TB, I am lost in that technical assessment!  I have not got a bloody clue now!

[Doctor Gollum]

Coil over plug would be an accurate assessment.

Plugs on the 2.6/3.2 are a twenty minute job every time.

Also, you're looking in the wrong place for GM parts. But you already know that.

[dave the builder]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302464175896?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

[Lizzie Zoom]

Coil over plug would be an accurate assessment.

Plugs on the 2.6/3.2 are a twenty minute job every time.

Also, you're looking in the wrong place for GM parts. But you already know that.

Yes I do, but I now look everywhere for the right brand, the correct part, and at the right price.

[Nick W]

My understanding is a DIS is the term usually used for a wasted spark, and coil/coilpack for non wasted spark?

DIS is Distributorless Ignition System, so it could be either.

[johnnydog]

The coil packs probably need replacing occasionally on these anyway.  If the old one is still servicable (not swelling or clear rust visible where the plastic gets hairline cracks, keep as a spare, and acquire some replacement boots.

Over the years, I have found the biggest killer of the coil packs fitted to the 2.6 / 3.2 is water ingress into the plug wells which accelerates internal corrosion, which can be seen on the metal core at each coil upper end (thick end of the rubber insulator boots), and rusty cracks. Oil in the plug wells will cause the insulator boots to perish at the plug end.
But taking these two causes out of the equation, coil packs should last for an infinite number of years. I have only had to change them on other cars as a result of another issues causing the problem,  ie water leaks from the scuttle or oil from the cam covers.
I have a 2.6 that is still on its original coil packs, and it is now approaching 19 years old and 70k.
Probably jinxed it now....

[VXL V6]

.....

Plugs on the 2.6/3.2 are a twenty minute job every time.

....

I couldn't change them in that time, it would take me most of that to unpick and remove the tray to be honest. No 6 can be a fiddle but once you remember the combination of bits you used last time it's not too bad. 

[Lizzie Zoom]

.....

Plugs on the 2.6/3.2 are a twenty minute job every time.

....

I couldn't change them in that time, it would take me most of that to unpick and remove the tray to be honest. No 6 can be a fiddle but once you remember the combination of bits you used last time it's not too bad. 

I agree with those comments. As I said, Number 6 was again difficult even when trying with various combinations of sockets, extension bars and universal joints.  For some reason it would not loosen up, but eventually it gave up!

I must say that on the Omega V6’s I have always found that plug the most difficult, with a fear I am going to cross thread the new one when I put it in.  I’ve always succeeded in the task though

[Lizzie Zoom]

For when I fit the new DIS pack, is the connector on the old one easy to unclip please?

[YZ250]

.....

Plugs on the 2.6/3.2 are a twenty minute job every time.

....

I couldn't change them in that time, it would take me most of that to unpick and remove the tray to be honest. No 6 can be a fiddle but once you remember the combination of bits you used last time it's not too bad. 

I usually spent the first fifteen minutes faffing about undoing the cable tray and then pulling the cables clear with a bungee. 

[YZ250]

For when I fit the new DIS pack, is the connector on the old one easy to unclip please?

It's just a tab. Flat blade screwdriver under the tab and wiggle it clear. 

[VXL V6]

For when I fit the new DIS pack, is the connector on the old one easy to unclip please?

It's just a tab. Flat blade screwdriver under the tab and wiggle it clear. 

...then wonder where it's gone when you go to plug in the new coil pack.... 

[Doctor Gollum]

For when I fit the new DIS pack, is the connector on the old one easy to unclip please?

No wonder the plug change takes so long if you don't unplug it for that.

10" combination of wobble extensions makes short work of plug 6. The only reason it can be a pig is if it has never been changed by previous laziness.

[Doctor Gollum]

To answer the question re the coil pack plug...

DO NOT bolt it in before you have fitted the plug. This is because the plug naturally falls to a position underneath the coil pack socket and you WILL crush it if you bolt the pack down on top of it. 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Bosch coil packs are still available, there is a good seller on ebay (Powersparks) who I have used quite a bit without issues.

They have them listed for about £77 delivered:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154596665618?fits=Model%3AOmega&epid=249114263&hash=item23feade912:g:ObQAAOSwmz5hM0O2

and

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185032225768?fits=Model%3AOmega&epid=248933317&hash=item2b14c7b3e8:g:d3wAAOSwZD5hM0O3

[Marks DTM Calib]

As for DIS and Coil pack, the DIS was a module which utilised wasted spark tech to replace a distributor but, still had traditional HT leads.

Then came the 'coil per plug' or 'coil on plug' as it was sometimes called, directly connecting the coil to the plug with no external wires, some manufacturers combined mulitiple coil on plugs into a single 'coil pack'.

[Andy B]

..... 
 Usual trouble in getting to spark plug 6, but after much cursing the idiots who designed so much in the way of this plug that I have wasted hours on over the years, I finally extracted it.  .....

Plugs on an Omega & even No 6 plug on a Senator are dead easy compared to my Smart Roadster. 
Rear panels off first
Then all 6 plugs .... top 3 are easy .... lower 3 not so easy

[Doctor Gollum]

As for DIS and Coil pack, the DIS was a module which utilised wasted spark tech to replace a distributor but, still had traditional HT leads.

Then came the 'coil per plug' or 'coil on plug' as it was sometimes called, directly connecting the coil to the plug with no external wires, some manufacturers combined mulitiple coil on plugs into a single 'coil pack'.

And some use a single coil to drive two plugs per cylinder with two leads. Because they could.

[Andy B]

.....
And some use a single coil to drive two plugs per cylinder with two leads. Because they could.

That's what the Smart Roadster uses

[Marks DTM Calib]

As for DIS and Coil pack, the DIS was a module which utilised wasted spark tech to replace a distributor but, still had traditional HT leads.

Then came the 'coil per plug' or 'coil on plug' as it was sometimes called, directly connecting the coil to the plug with no external wires, some manufacturers combined mulitiple coil on plugs into a single 'coil pack'.

And some use a single coil to drive two plugs per cylinder with two leads. Because they could.

Thats simply an extension of the wasted spark DIS system, with a lead connected to each end of the secondary winding, but with more turns to get the volts up and a bit more iron to store some extra energy (which may not be good for reliability) 

[Marks DTM Calib]

.....
And some use a single coil to drive two plugs per cylinder with two leads. Because they could.

That's what the Smart Roadster uses

The Smart one is two coils in one pack 

[Andy B]

.....
And some use a single coil to drive two plugs per cylinder with two leads. Because they could.

That's what the Smart Roadster uses

The Smart one is two coils in one pack 

  OK ... there's just one block with 2 HT leads from it 

 

[Marks DTM Calib]

.....
And some use a single coil to drive two plugs per cylinder with two leads. Because they could.

That's what the Smart Roadster uses

The Smart one is two coils in one pack 

  OK ... there's just one block with 2 HT leads from it 

If you look closely you can see the two bulges from each coil



If you fed two plugs off a single coil only one plug would fire most of the time 

[LC0112G]

If you fed two plugs off a single coil only one plug would fire most of the time 

That's not strictly true. As long as there is a circuit from one terminal of the coil back to the other terminal, it'll fire. The second terminal doesn't have to be a chassis/ground potential.

I can name at least one case where the circuit goes coil+ve -> spark plug1 tip - >spark plug1 threads -> cylinder head ->spark plug2 threads -> spark plug2 tip -> coil-ve.

Both spark plugs 1&2 fire every time at the same time. One cylinder is at the top of the exhaust stroke, whilst the other is at the top of the compression stroke. Although the exhaust stroke spark is wasted (hence the term wasted spark), it takes very little energy to fire it when it's surrounded by hot combustion gasses, so the energy loss is minimal.

It makes spark timing simpler - you can do the timing off the crank (rather than the cam) since you don't need to know if the piston is in the compression or exhaust phase of the 4 strokes.

No idea if that's how a Smart car works though.

[Lizzie Zoom]

For when I fit the new DIS pack, is the connector on the old one easy to unclip please?

It's just a tab. Flat blade screwdriver under the tab and wiggle it clear. 

Thanks!

[Lizzie Zoom]

..... 
 Usual trouble in getting to spark plug 6, but after much cursing the idiots who designed so much in the way of this plug that I have wasted hours on over the years, I finally extracted it.  .....

Plugs on an Omega & even No 6 plug on a Senator are dead easy compared to my Smart Roadster. 
Rear panels off first
Then all 6 plugs .... top 3 are easy .... lower 3 not so easy

Yes, that does seem far worse than with the Omega, and much, much harder than a Senator which was dead easy!

[Lizzie Zoom]

For when I fit the new DIS pack, is the connector on the old one easy to unclip please?

No wonder the plug change takes so long if you don't unplug it for that.

10" combination of wobble extensions makes short work of plug 6. The only reason it can be a pig is if it has never been changed by previous laziness.

No, I never have, but there again I have only done two major services on the current Omega.

As for changing plug 6;  I always have, but I now realise my mistake of not removing the cable tray on the current car.  I did on the 3.0's I have had, but usually when replacing the cam cover gaskets.  When I did those, I used to change my plugs as part of the major service.  Why I have reverted to not doing that I cannot explain, but perhaps I am tiring of all this car mechanics malarkey at my growing age!

[Andy B]

.....
If you look closely you can see the two bulges from each coil
 ..... ....

As soon as you said it knew you were right ....  but checked on one of my spare coils 

[Kevin Wood]

If you fed two plugs off a single coil only one plug would fire most of the time 

That's not strictly true. As long as there is a circuit from one terminal of the coil back to the other terminal, it'll fire. The second terminal doesn't have to be a chassis/ground potential.

I can name at least one case where the circuit goes coil+ve -> spark plug1 tip - >spark plug1 threads -> cylinder head ->spark plug2 threads -> spark plug2 tip -> coil-ve.

Both spark plugs 1&2 fire every time at the same time. One cylinder is at the top of the exhaust stroke, whilst the other is at the top of the compression stroke. Although the exhaust stroke spark is wasted (hence the term wasted spark), it takes very little energy to fire it when it's surrounded by hot combustion gasses, so the energy loss is minimal.

It makes spark timing simpler - you can do the timing off the crank (rather than the cam) since you don't need to know if the piston is in the compression or exhaust phase of the 4 strokes.

No idea if that's how a Smart car works though.

What you describe is how a wasted spark coil works. One plug of the pair is always in a cylinder on its exhaust stroke, so it has no compression, and needs a much lower voltage to break down than the one that has full compression pressure on it, hence both plugs fire but most of the energy from the coil goes to the one under compression since it has a much higher voltage across it by the time it fires.

If you connected two in the same cylinder, in parallel, to a coil on a twin spark setup like the Smart, you'd only ever get the "easiest" plug firing since the current would take the path of least resistance, hence you need a pair of coils.

[STEMO]

My first wife only had a single coil in, and she certainly used to fire on all cylinders. Dirty cow, she was. 

She wore out my piston 

[Sir Tigger KC]

My first wife only had a single coil in, and she certainly used to fire on all cylinders. Dirty cow, she was. 

She wore out my piston 

Does that mean you also have a wasted spark Uncle STEMO?     

[Raeturbo]

So you’re pissed and broke then my friend?🤣

[Raeturbo]

May be a gummed up ring😂😂🤣

[Marks DTM Calib]

If you fed two plugs off a single coil only one plug would fire most of the time 

That's not strictly true. As long as there is a circuit from one terminal of the coil back to the other terminal, it'll fire. The second terminal doesn't have to be a chassis/ground potential.

I can name at least one case where the circuit goes coil+ve -> spark plug1 tip - >spark plug1 threads -> cylinder head ->spark plug2 threads -> spark plug2 tip -> coil-ve.

Both spark plugs 1&2 fire every time at the same time. One cylinder is at the top of the exhaust stroke, whilst the other is at the top of the compression stroke. Although the exhaust stroke spark is wasted (hence the term wasted spark), it takes very little energy to fire it when it's surrounded by hot combustion gasses, so the energy loss is minimal.

It makes spark timing simpler - you can do the timing off the crank (rather than the cam) since you don't need to know if the piston is in the compression or exhaust phase of the 4 strokes.

No idea if that's how a Smart car works though.

You missed this by a country mile   

This is two plugs on the same cylinder, not a wasted spark setup. In this case if you had a single coil the plug with the smallest gap or most optimum conditions will fire, once it has the ionised air/mix in the gap will reduce in resistance and the spark remains on the one plug.....hence two plugs per cylinder nees two coils (well at least two secondary coils)

[LC0112G]

If you fed two plugs off a single coil only one plug would fire most of the time 

That's not strictly true. As long as there is a circuit from one terminal of the coil back to the other terminal, it'll fire. The second terminal doesn't have to be a chassis/ground potential.

I can name at least one case where the circuit goes coil+ve -> spark plug1 tip - >spark plug1 threads -> cylinder head ->spark plug2 threads -> spark plug2 tip -> coil-ve.

Both spark plugs 1&2 fire every time at the same time. One cylinder is at the top of the exhaust stroke, whilst the other is at the top of the compression stroke. Although the exhaust stroke spark is wasted (hence the term wasted spark), it takes very little energy to fire it when it's surrounded by hot combustion gasses, so the energy loss is minimal.

It makes spark timing simpler - you can do the timing off the crank (rather than the cam) since you don't need to know if the piston is in the compression or exhaust phase of the 4 strokes.

No idea if that's how a Smart car works though.

You missed this by a country mile   

This is two plugs on the same cylinder, not a wasted spark setup. In this case if you had a single coil the plug with the smallest gap or most optimum conditions will fire, once it has the ionised air/mix in the gap will reduce in resistance and the spark remains on the one plug.....hence two plugs per cylinder nees two coils (well at least two secondary coils)

Yes - if the two plugs are in a parallel combination. However, nothing to stop you wiring them in series, even if both plugs are in the same cylinder.

I'm struggling to see the reason for firing two plugs separately in parallel in the same cylinder, unless the timing is such that they are firing them at slightly different times?

[Doctor Gollum]

It's a Mercedes thing 

The M112/113 engine uses coils as Mark pictured, which have two short leads running to individual plugs. In turn there are two spark plugs per cylinder.

Incidentally, they're all 3 valve engines so there's a plug for every inlet valve. Presumably making combustion more efficient...

So my S280 V6 has 6 coil 'packs' (paired coils), 12 leads and 12 plugs. The V8 has 8,16 and 16 respectively, and the V12 M156/275 has 2 coil packs, no leads and 24 plugs

[TheBoy]

It's a Mercedes thing 

No it ain't. A fair few manufacturers do in on "normal" cars, and quite a lot on performance cars.

For LG - fired at the same time, idea being a better burn from 2 flame fronts.

[Marks DTM Calib]

If you fed two plugs off a single coil only one plug would fire most of the time 

That's not strictly true. As long as there is a circuit from one terminal of the coil back to the other terminal, it'll fire. The second terminal doesn't have to be a chassis/ground potential.

I can name at least one case where the circuit goes coil+ve -> spark plug1 tip - >spark plug1 threads -> cylinder head ->spark plug2 threads -> spark plug2 tip -> coil-ve.

Both spark plugs 1&2 fire every time at the same time. One cylinder is at the top of the exhaust stroke, whilst the other is at the top of the compression stroke. Although the exhaust stroke spark is wasted (hence the term wasted spark), it takes very little energy to fire it when it's surrounded by hot combustion gasses, so the energy loss is minimal.

It makes spark timing simpler - you can do the timing off the crank (rather than the cam) since you don't need to know if the piston is in the compression or exhaust phase of the 4 strokes.

No idea if that's how a Smart car works though.

You missed this by a country mile   

This is two plugs on the same cylinder, not a wasted spark setup. In this case if you had a single coil the plug with the smallest gap or most optimum conditions will fire, once it has the ionised air/mix in the gap will reduce in resistance and the spark remains on the one plug.....hence two plugs per cylinder nees two coils (well at least two secondary coils)

Yes - if the two plugs are in a parallel combination. However, nothing to stop you wiring them in series, even if both plugs are in the same cylinder.

I'm struggling to see the reason for firing two plugs separately in parallel in the same cylinder, unless the timing is such that they are firing them at slightly different times?

Thats not actually a single coil, its two secondary windings with the centre grounded and a single primary 

[LC0112G]

Thats not actually a single coil, its two secondary windings with the centre grounded and a single primary 

So remove the centre ground tap, and it then becomes a series spark setup with one primary and one secondary

Would be interesting to continuity check from the plug lead terminals to chassis/ground.

[Lizzie Zoom]

God, my Omega DIS Pack, or whatever it is,is a damn sight easier to understand than all that!

I must remember never to buy a Smart car! Is that the car that needs the engine out to replace the exhaust pipe?  One of my friends had one of those and she explained how the Mercedes mechanic complained about having to work on such a design of car!

How I miss the simplicity of past cars with a coil, distributor, contact, leads to each plug witch had a simple connector that was easily changed!  My A40 was a doddle to work on compared to these modern machines!  Are the electrics going to be easier?

[Doctor Gollum]

It's a Mercedes thing 

No it ain't. A fair few manufacturers do in on "normal" cars, and quite a lot on performance cars.

For LG - fired at the same time, idea being a better burn from 2 flame fronts.

OK, my experience of it twin plugs is the Merc application. Fiat/Alfa with their twin spark could well be a similar set up.

Incidentally, the M104 straight six developed from distributor ignition to three double coils each feeding two single plugs per cylinder.

[TheBoy]

Thats not actually a single coil, its two secondary windings with the centre grounded and a single primary 

So remove the centre ground tap, and it then becomes a series spark setup with one primary and one secondary

Would be interesting to continuity check from the plug lead terminals to chassis/ground.

I think the coil would have to be enormous to generate 2 sparks on the compression stroke.

[LC0112G]

Thats not actually a single coil, its two secondary windings with the centre grounded and a single primary 

So remove the centre ground tap, and it then becomes a series spark setup with one primary and one secondary

Would be interesting to continuity check from the plug lead terminals to chassis/ground.

I think the coil would have to be enormous to generate 2 sparks on the compression stroke.

It's the same primary coil either way and therefore the energy stored in the magnetic field is the same since there is only one primary. The energy discharged per spark event is therefore also the same.

If there are two secondaries then presumably half the energy stored in the core gets discharged through each of the two coils/plugs. Doesn't matter if the centre connection between the two coils is grounded or not. If it is then you end up with +V on one terminal and -V on t'other. If it isn't then you end up with 2*V between the terminals, but it's floating wrt ground. The ground comes then from the fact that the two plugs are screwed into the cylinder head, so the threads will (probably) be grounded - but they don't have to be.

I don't know that thats how it wired on the Smart - it's possible that both coil terminals go to +V wrt ground (rather than +V and -V). But that gives you a DC current in the head as the return path for the spark which isn't a good thing generally.

[Doctor Gollum]

Interestingly, I have discovered that the Audi Totally Frigging Stupid Idea lump has two plugs per cylinder... As does the 2008 ish 5.7 Hemi lump

[Andy B]

......

How I miss the simplicity of past cars with a coil, distributor, contact, leads to each plug witch had a simple connector that was easily changed!  My A40 was a doddle to work on compared to these modern machines!  Are the electrics going to be easier?

I miss points, condensers & dizzys like a hole in the head .... they were a pain in the harris!!

And though I've yet to replace an exhaust on either Smart (different engines), I doubt that's correct. They're not the easiest of cars to work on engine wise

[Nick W]

......

How I miss the simplicity of past cars with a coil, distributor, contact, leads to each plug witch had a simple connector that was easily changed!  My A40 was a doddle to work on compared to these modern machines!  Are the electrics going to be easier?

I miss points, condensers & dizzys like a hole in the head .... they were a pain in the harris!!

Yes, they are the first thing to get rid of on an old car. Especially now that high quality points and condensers are hard to find.

[Doctor Gollum]

Interestingly, I have discovered that the Audi Totally Frigging Stupid Idea lump has two plugs per cylinder... As does the 2008 ish 5.7 Hemi lump

And the Continental IO 520... From the late '60s

So no, apparently not just a Mercedes thing 

[Kevin Wood]

Interestingly, I have discovered that the Audi Totally Frigging Stupid Idea lump has two plugs per cylinder... As does the 2008 ish 5.7 Hemi lump

And the Continental IO 520... From the late '60s

So no, apparently not just a Mercedes thing 

Pretty much all aero engines do.. for redundancy.

[Shackeng]

......

How I miss the simplicity of past cars with a coil, distributor, contact, leads to each plug witch had a simple connector that was easily changed!  My A40 was a doddle to work on compared to these modern machines!  Are the electrics going to be easier?

I miss points, condensers & dizzys like a hole in the head .... they were a pain in the harris!!

And though I've yet to replace an exhaust on either Smart (different engines), I doubt that's correct. They're not the easiest of cars to work on engine wise

Ah yes, but getting the timing just right after fitting new points/dis etc. gave a certain    satisfaction.

[countrywoman]

......

How I miss the simplicity of past cars with a coil, distributor, contact, leads to each plug witch had a simple connector that was easily changed!  My A40 was a doddle to work on compared to these modern machines!  Are the electrics going to be easier?

I miss points, condensers & dizzys like a hole in the head .... they were a pain in the harris!!

And though I've yet to replace an exhaust on either Smart (different engines), I doubt that's correct. They're not the easiest of cars to work on engine wise

Ah yes, but getting the timing just right after fitting new points/dis etc. gave a certain    satisfaction.

Yes the satisfaction of getting something like an MGB to run sweet , balancing twin SUs !!!

[Lizzie Zoom]

......

How I miss the simplicity of past cars with a coil, distributor, contact, leads to each plug witch had a simple connector that was easily changed!  My A40 was a doddle to work on compared to these modern machines!  Are the electrics going to be easier?

I miss points, condensers & dizzys like a hole in the head .... they were a pain in the harris!!

And though I've yet to replace an exhaust on either Smart (different engines), I doubt that's correct. They’re not the easiest of cars to work on engine wise

I loved doing all the ‘stuff’ on the old cars, and got great satisfaction in setting the timing.  Yes we had to use feeler gauges more, but what simplistic fun that was.  We were in charge then, but now when servicing or repairing my Omega, like all modern cars, I feel the car is in charge with all the bloody sensors we have to obey!

No fun now, just I have to do it, a slave to my car

[Lizzie Zoom]

......

How I miss the simplicity of past cars with a coil, distributor, contact, leads to each plug witch had a simple connector that was easily changed!  My A40 was a doddle to work on compared to these modern machines!  Are the electrics going to be easier?

I miss points, condensers & dizzys like a hole in the head .... they were a pain in the harris!!

And though I've yet to replace an exhaust on either Smart (different engines), I doubt that's correct. They're not the easiest of cars to work on engine wise

Ah yes, but getting the timing just right after fitting new points/dis etc. gave a certain    satisfaction.

Yes, it certainly did

But, I was much younger then…….!!!

[TheBoy]

......

How I miss the simplicity of past cars with a coil, distributor, contact, leads to each plug witch had a simple connector that was easily changed!  My A40 was a doddle to work on compared to these modern machines!  Are the electrics going to be easier?

I miss points, condensers & dizzys like a hole in the head .... they were a pain in the harris!!

Yes, they are the first thing to get rid of on an old car. Especially now that high quality points and condensers are hard to find.

And aftermarket electronic ignition systems have become loads more reliable than those in the 70/80s

[TheBoy]

......

How I miss the simplicity of past cars with a coil, distributor, contact, leads to each plug witch had a simple connector that was easily changed!  My A40 was a doddle to work on compared to these modern machines!  Are the electrics going to be easier?

I miss points, condensers & dizzys like a hole in the head .... they were a pain in the harris!!

And though I've yet to replace an exhaust on either Smart (different engines), I doubt that's correct. They're not the easiest of cars to work on engine wise

Ah yes, but getting the timing just right after fitting new points/dis etc. gave a certain    satisfaction.

Yes, it certainly did

But, I was much younger then…….!!!

Its not really that different, only stuff is done in software, and the feedback is in black and white, rather than by gut feel. Which leads to more consistent accuracy.  But essentially, you are still looking at the same things for incorrect running, just on a screen instead.

[Lizzie Zoom]

......

How I miss the simplicity of past cars with a coil, distributor, contact, leads to each plug witch had a simple connector that was easily changed!  My A40 was a doddle to work on compared to these modern machines!  Are the electrics going to be easier?

I miss points, condensers & dizzys like a hole in the head .... they were a pain in the harris!!

And though I've yet to replace an exhaust on either Smart (different engines), I doubt that's correct. They're not the easiest of cars to work on engine wise

Ah yes, but getting the timing just right after fitting new points/dis etc. gave a certain    satisfaction.

Yes, it certainly did

But, I was much younger then…….!!!

Its not really that different, only stuff is done in software, and the feedback is in black and white, rather than by gut feel. Which leads to more consistent accuracy.  But essentially, you are still looking at the same things for incorrect running, just on a screen instead.

Yes TB, I know.  Modern cars are certainly better in so many ways, and not just greatly assisted by all the electronic gizmos, such as big end failures are now almost non-existent, piston ring failures the same, and as for head gasket break-downs..........well, I suppose the list is endless.  The time we used to see the same old brands of cars broken down at the side of the road!!

So, yes once I take off my rose coloured glasses........................................I still miss the simplistic fun of working on the old cars, but not at the side of a lonely road............without a mobile phone to summon help!

[ronnyd]

......

How I miss the simplicity of past cars with a coil, distributor, contact, leads to each plug witch had a simple connector that was easily changed!  My A40 was a doddle to work on compared to these modern machines!  Are the electrics going to be easier?

I miss points, condensers & dizzys like a hole in the head .... they were a pain in the harris!!

Yes, they are the first thing to get rid of on an old car. Especially now that high quality points and condensers are hard to find.

And aftermarket electronic ignition systems have become loads more reliable than those in the 70/80s

Does anyone remember Sparkrite system? i fitted one on one of mine , but can't remember which one.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

......

How I miss the simplicity of past cars with a coil, distributor, contact, leads to each plug witch had a simple connector that was easily changed!  My A40 was a doddle to work on compared to these modern machines!  Are the electrics going to be easier?

I miss points, condensers & dizzys like a hole in the head .... they were a pain in the harris!!

And though I've yet to replace an exhaust on either Smart (different engines), I doubt that's correct. They’re not the easiest of cars to work on engine wise

I loved doing all the ‘stuff’ on the old cars, and got great satisfaction in setting the timing.  Yes we had to use feeler gauges more, but what simplistic fun that was.  We were in charge then, but now when servicing or repairing my Omega, like all modern cars, I feel the car is in charge with all the bloody sensors we have to obey!

No fun now, just I have to do it, a slave to my car

I used to set the ignition timing on my RD 250 like this.

Screwdriver down the plug hole to locate TDC.

Homemade light bulb connected  to the points to check when they opened. It worked pretty well most of the time although I did end up with a holed piston once after a long flat out thrash during the peak of summer.

A dial gauge may have been more accurate but I couldn't afford one. :'(

[Lizzie Zoom]

......

How I miss the simplicity of past cars with a coil, distributor, contact, leads to each plug witch had a simple connector that was easily changed!  My A40 was a doddle to work on compared to these modern machines!  Are the electrics going to be easier?

I miss points, condensers & dizzys like a hole in the head .... they were a pain in the harris!!

And though I've yet to replace an exhaust on either Smart (different engines), I doubt that's correct. They’re not the easiest of cars to work on engine wise

I loved doing all the ‘stuff’ on the old cars, and got great satisfaction in setting the timing.  Yes we had to use feeler gauges more, but what simplistic fun that was.  We were in charge then, but now when servicing or repairing my Omega, like all modern cars, I feel the car is in charge with all the bloody sensors we have to obey!

No fun now, just I have to do it, a slave to my car

I used to set the ignition timing on my RD 250 like this.

Screwdriver down the plug hole to locate TDC.

Homemade light bulb connected  to the points to check when they opened. It worked pretty well most of the time although I did end up with a holed piston once after a long flat out thrash during the peak of summer.

A dial gauge may have been more accurate but I couldn't afford one. :'(

Yes those days of poverty mechanics, working with the few tools we could afford to keep our old machines going by a wing and a prayer, learning on the job. Still have fond memories of all that