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[Webby the Bear]

Hi guys,

I remember a little while back saying I wanted to get a spare engine and gearbox in case my engine and/or tranny ever died. I also remember someone saying (Kev I think) the body (inc. monocoque/chassis) would die if rust well before the engine.

As I want to keep my Omega for as long as possible (really, I want to get a million miles out of it lol) is there anything I can do to stop this? Obviously wheel arches can be sorted by taking it to the body shop and / or replacing various panels e.g. getting a new rear wheel arch panel welded in.

But is it possible to do the same with the chassis? E.g. I get an mot failure for some chassis rust can I simply get that rust removed and a new piece of metal welded in? And if the chassis (or monocoque) does rust / rot is there any particular area it will go?

I've found rust behind my bumper so i'll be getting that out as soon as poss. (I can do this myself as it doesn't matter if it doesn't look pretty as its behind the bumper )

[Shackeng]

I've just had some welding done including a plate on the box chassis member adjacent to the steering idler, and it passed it's MOT OK.

[Webby the Bear]

Thanks mate.

So basically any area can be repaired if necessary?

[Shackeng]

I assume so, provided that it is structurally sound.

[alank46]

Best bet if you are keeping the car for a long period is to rust proof it yourself or get somebody to do it.  The classic car movement is well versed in this sort of work.  Bilt Hamber make a range of suitable products (as do a number of others) 
http://www.bilthamber.com/cavity-waxes

[Webby the Bear]

Thanks for that link i'll check that out! 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Its made of steel and hence pretty much any part can be repaired (good job or there would be pretty much no classic cars left!).

Structual bits are often much easier for most to do than body work which is more skilled.

As for appraoch, by far the best is to cut old out and seam weld new in

[Nick W]

These things don't seem too bad for structural rust, so it's probably a good choice for a long term 'keeper'.
 I hope so, as it's my intention.
The thing to do is to stop rust getting a hold, by eliminating it as soon as you spot it. A wire brush on an angle-grinder is the tool of choice, followed by decent paint and stonechip/underseal.
The car is undersealed as standard, so you're going to be scraping damaged areas back to solid, and recovering. This is probably the most unpleasant job to do on a car, and is best done with it on a lift.
Small areas of underseal are easily touched in with aerosols, the paint factor I buy from often has recently date expired ones at a large discount, which I try to keep in stock. That avoids the need for a compressor and schutz gun, which are generally crap.

Panel repairs are straightforward, but are probably best done by a body shop. Coincidentally, I was talking to the bloke repairing my boss's Mustang, he reckons that the damage to my wheelarch and door will be about £300, which means it isn't worth doing myself.

[Webby the Bear]

Thanks for the info guys

I was looking underneath and cant see any rust. It doesn't even look like metal...its a dark colour and bobbly. is this years of crap or the underseal you speak of?

[Webby the Bear]

Ps, in the third pic where it says ''heat shield'' is what I mean...

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=103491.0

...I assume this is part of the monocoque or is the metal frame underneath this?

[Webby the Bear]

Anyone? lol

[Webby the Bear]

Ps, to Mark.. you mentioned pretty much all of the chassis (monocoque) could be repaired with new metal being welded in. Is there an area wehere you're thinking something couldn't be repaired and the car would have to be scrapped cos of this?

[05omegav6]

Where it says 'heatshield' is the floor of the car, part of the monocoque, not structural, but quite important at keeping the seats off the road

Structural rust would most likely crop up on the front chassis rails along their entire length, but importantly either in front of the front wheels where the subframe/steering gear bolts on or front jacking points, and the rear end of the sills next to the rear subframe donuts... see Mk 1/2/3/4/5 Fiestas and Mk1/2 Kas for a classic example of this

Any rust where the sills meet the door pillars or around the engine bay/slam panel/inner wings/bulkhead areas will also be frowned upon

The grey bobbly stuff is indeed underseal covered in about 10-15 years of crud

[05omegav6]

Ps, to Mark.. you mentioned pretty much all of the chassis (monocoque) could be repaired with new metal being welded in. Is there an area wehere you're thinking something couldn't be repaired and the car would have to be scrapped cos of this?

On the Omega the only area that springs to mind is the bulkhead, but not an area the Omega is prone to rotting in, but repairing it would involve stripping the dash, engine bay and front half of the interior to get at... That applies to most cars in fairness

[Webby the Bear]

Thanks very much Taxi. that pretty much covers what I was thinking!

As mentioned I don't recall ever thinking there is a bunch of rust under my car but basically if I crawl under with a can of the Bilt Hamber stuff that was mentioned earlier and coat where the subframe meets the body, the chassis rails including chassis legs (where front bumper attaches), the jacking points and for good measure the entire length of the sills (where I presume ill see pinch welds?  )

or

do I look for rust first, get that attended to and THEN hose it down with the sealer.

as for the bulkhead.... if getting to it if it ever went wouldn't be a concern.... just knowing that I could if I ever needed to reassures me 

[05omegav6]

If you want to get that involved, next time the wishbones need replacing, drop the subframes, front and rear, one bolt at a time in order to ensure a coating between the mating surfaces. Beyond that choose a product and follow the instructions to the letter

Some might simply coat over old underseal once all the loose crud is blasted off, others might prefer a square one approach, and work best on bare paint

[Webby the Bear]

Thanks Taxi, one last question about the areas you've mentioned..... the sills. can I easily pop the sill cover off to look at the sills themselves?

[05omegav6]

Thanks Taxi, one last question about the areas you've mentioned..... the sills. can I easily pop the sill cover off to look at the sills themselves?

Yup

Remove the torx screw from the front end, along with all the black poppers underneath, 6 or 7 each side iirc...

Pull the bottom edge down a fraction, then simply slide the sill forward until it falls off

The rear moulding can stay put, and when refitting, slot the back end into the rear moulding then simply tap it back into the clips as you work forward, then refit the screws/poppers

[Webby the Bear]

Legennd! cheers mate 

[BazaJT]

Whilst you're getting down and dirty with the underseal it may pay to spray waxoil or similar inside box sections i.e. chassis legs etc.and into the sills[if/when sound]you may have to drill access holes for the sills,and also inside the doors.Or what do others think?Only reason I mention this is because sills/doors/box sections generally rot from the inside out.

[05omegav6]

Whilst you're getting down and dirty with the underseal it may pay to spray waxoil or similar inside box sections i.e. chassis legs etc.and into the sills[if/when sound]you may have to drill access holes for the sills,and also inside the doors.Or what do others think?Only reason I mention this is because sills/doors/box sections generally rot from the inside out.

On an older car, that might be a horse long since bolted situation 

[Webby the Bear]

Whilst you're getting down and dirty with the underseal it may pay to spray waxoil or similar inside box sections i.e. chassis legs etc.and into the sills[if/when sound]you may have to drill access holes for the sills,and also inside the doors.Or what do others think?Only reason I mention this is because sills/doors/box sections generally rot from the inside out.

On an older car, that might be a horse long since bolted situation 

But perhaps an idea on the miggy? 

[05omegav6]

Not so sure Mr Bear... mine is already showing signs of internal corrosion in the sills

[omega3000]

Structural rust would most likely crop up on the front chassis rails along their entire length,

 

My old Elite was rotten drivers side front chassis rail  Apart from that and rear wheel arch lip rust they dont seem to rot much .

[Webby the Bear]

Seal stuff on order

IS there anywhere else in addition to the info taxi kindly provided where members feel the miggy could rust on the underside?

I take it the metal in the boot (under the carpet) is also the monocoque...... would this be a place to check and hose down also?

[Webby the Bear]

Had an exhaust leak to fix  so gave me a great opportunity to get a good butchers underneath after Taxi kindly gave me details of what to check for rust.....

The jacking point areas (not the part on the sill for the factory jack... I mean the one where theres a lump of metal with two circular areas inboard of the factory jack point) doesn't look rusted at all.

The chassis rail (where you place your axel stand) is not rusting but the underseal is coming away and showing metal cos of where its rubbed against stands. but not rusty.

I've checked the pinch welds (not removed the sill cover) but from what I can see the drivers side front bit of the sill is rusting but then the rest of it isn't so hopefully not much needing repair

[terry paget]

I don't see many Senators around these days. Rear wheel arches used to rust, and kits were available to replace them. The front Mcpherson strut towers eventually leaned inwards - sub frame going - and I think that finished them off. They were fine cars to drive, but could be trouble to start with that front distributor.

[Webby the Bear]

i plan on posting some pics of my rusty bits tomorro lol double check to see what you boys think