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[Dishevelled Den]

What an interesting thread - very informative indeed.

Hope you're up and running before too long Scottie - well done for doing the job yourself 8-) 8-)

[Kevin Wood]

I use the ones that magicaly appear in the cupboard....for both plumbing and cleaning head faces.

I seem to be the only one who uses them in this house. Not for cleaning heads, more's the pity.

 

Kevin

[ChevetteNick]

those heads are scrap mate if your keeping the car. they definately need welding between the water chambers and they also need to be perfectly flat across the whole face otherwise the gasket will leak. they're a perfect example of neglected coolant/corrosion inhibitor.

[ScottieMV6]

those heads are scrap mate if your keeping the car. they definately need welding between the water chambers and they also need to be perfectly flat across the whole face otherwise the gasket will leak. they're a perfect example of neglected coolant/corrosion inhibitor.

Nick

Perhaps you could explain a little more why you see them as scrap.

I am not trying to be rude but you are a relative newbie here and MDTM (who has a lot of experience with these heads) seems to think they will be ok.

As I said not being rude but I have no idea of your experience

[ScottieMV6]

What an interesting thread - very informative indeed.

Hope you're up and running before too long Scottie - well done for doing the job yourself 8-) 8-)

Thanks Zulu.

I hope it will be of help to someone else in the same situation as me!

[Marks DTM Calib]

those heads are scrap mate if your keeping the car. they definately need welding between the water chambers and they also need to be perfectly flat across the whole face otherwise the gasket will leak. they're a perfect example of neglected coolant/corrosion inhibitor.

Nick

Perhaps you could explain a little more why you see them as scrap.

I am not trying to be rude but you are a relative newbie here and MDTM (who has a lot of experience with these heads) seems to think they will be ok.

As I said not being rude but I have no idea of your experience

The reason why I say they are not is because I also have knowledge of the block area......the small areas where the corrosion is evident correspond to a water jacket opening on the block.

As for flat, I am yet to see a warped V6 head but, its easy enough to check with a good straight edge and a light source.

The key part I look for is presence of plenty of meat between the fire ring point and the coolant jacket and damage across the full surface.

A final tip for the last stage of cleaning......fine wet and dry (wet) plus a block of wood. 

[ChevetteNick]

Nick

Perhaps you could explain a little more why you see them as scrap.

I am not trying to be rude but you are a relative newbie here and MDTM (who has a lot of experience with these heads) seems to think they will be ok.

As I said not being rude but I have no idea of your experience

Yeah no problemo mate I think I'd be the same so I'll give you a little bit of my background to put you at ease
I am an apprentice trained (4 years City & Guilds) engine remanufacturer. I spent a total of 8 years in the game, only leaving because i was never going to be anything other than a kid in their eyes, and have resurrected BL 'A' series (common) engines to Aston Martin V8s (rare) and everything inbetween even pre-war engines couldn't defeat me.
Now let me explain why I would scrap your heads. The Japanese, as they do, revolutionised the way engines were made and the life expectancy of them. The Ford Pinto 2.0 ohc could be rebored 6 times before fitting liners and taking it back to the original bore size and the crank could be reground 4 times before it was scrapped or even metal sprayed to prolong its life. Toyota on the other hand had their engines re-manufactured as part of a service interval. So when the car was on its last legs the engine couldn't live for much longer as their engines only have a short lifecycle....a new engine design would have been brought out making parts for the old one really hard to get. These 2 engines were used as an example as they were both available at the same time. Everyone else now makes engines the same way so you can't get the life out of them that you used to. Your heads are common enough still for you to be able to fit new(er) ones. Look at this picture of the area I have pinpointed.



Water has corroded this area, head gasket failure, and will only get worse. Just having the head skimmed, it won't clean it up enough, and re-fitting it isn't going to achieve anything other than head gasket failure. This area and all the others like it needs to be welded first and if this is succesful, rotten aluminium is notoriously bad at taking a weld...and don't get me started on the quality of the alloy, then you'll be ok but it just isn't worth it in my opinion  

[Andy H]

What you cannot see from Scotties photo is that the corroded area presses against a piece of headgasket but there is a coolant passage the other side of the headgasket.

The fire ring stops on the edge of your red box so the important areas of the head appear to be unscathed.

That said, with good used heads being currently easy to obtain there is no point in trying to use the heads if they are suspect.

[Bent valve]

Nick

Perhaps you could explain a little more why you see them as scrap.

I am not trying to be rude but you are a relative newbie here and MDTM (who has a lot of experience with these heads) seems to think they will be ok.

As I said not being rude but I have no idea of your experience

Yeah no problemo mate I think I'd be the same so I'll give you a little bit of my background to put you at ease
I am an apprentice trained (4 years City & Guilds) engine remanufacturer. I spent a total of 8 years in the game, only leaving because i was never going to be anything other than a kid in their eyes, and have resurrected BL 'A' series (common) engines to Aston Martin V8s (rare) and everything inbetween even pre-war engines couldn't defeat me.
Now let me explain why I would scrap your heads. The Japanese, as they do, revolutionised the way engines were made and the life expectancy of them. The Ford Pinto 2.0 ohc could be rebored 6 times before fitting liners and taking it back to the original bore size and the crank could be reground 4 times before it was scrapped or even metal sprayed to prolong its life. Toyota on the other hand had their engines re-manufactured as part of a service interval. So when the car was on its last legs the engine couldn't live for much longer as their engines only have a short lifecycle....a new engine design would have been brought out making parts for the old one really hard to get. These 2 engines were used as an example as they were both available at the same time. Everyone else now makes engines the same way so you can't get the life out of them that you used to. Your heads are common enough still for you to be able to fit new(er) ones. Look at this picture of the area I have pinpointed.



Water has corroded this area, head gasket failure, and will only get worse. Just having the head skimmed, it won't clean it up enough, and re-fitting it isn't going to achieve anything other than head gasket failure. This area and all the others like it needs to be welded first and if this is succesful, rotten aluminium is notoriously bad at taking a weld...and don't get me started on the quality of the alloy, then you'll be ok but it just isn't worth it in my opinion  

Do you mean to say that when you took your Toyota in for a service they remanufactured the engine because it was shit and not as good as a ford engine? :-?

[ScottieMV6]

Nick

Perhaps you could explain a little more why you see them as scrap.

I am not trying to be rude but you are a relative newbie here and MDTM (who has a lot of experience with these heads) seems to think they will be ok.

As I said not being rude but I have no idea of your experience

Yeah no problemo mate I think I'd be the same so I'll give you a little bit of my background to put you at ease
I am an apprentice trained (4 years City & Guilds) engine remanufacturer. I spent a total of 8 years in the game, only leaving because i was never going to be anything other than a kid in their eyes, and have resurrected BL 'A' series (common) engines to Aston Martin V8s (rare) and everything inbetween even pre-war engines couldn't defeat me.
Now let me explain why I would scrap your heads. The Japanese, as they do, revolutionised the way engines were made and the life expectancy of them. The Ford Pinto 2.0 ohc could be rebored 6 times before fitting liners and taking it back to the original bore size and the crank could be reground 4 times before it was scrapped or even metal sprayed to prolong its life. Toyota on the other hand had their engines re-manufactured as part of a service interval. So when the car was on its last legs the engine couldn't live for much longer as their engines only have a short lifecycle....a new engine design would have been brought out making parts for the old one really hard to get. These 2 engines were used as an example as they were both available at the same time. Everyone else now makes engines the same way so you can't get the life out of them that you used to. Your heads are common enough still for you to be able to fit new(er) ones. Look at this picture of the area I have pinpointed.



Water has corroded this area, head gasket failure, and will only get worse. Just having the head skimmed, it won't clean it up enough, and re-fitting it isn't going to achieve anything other than head gasket failure. This area and all the others like it needs to be welded first and if this is succesful, rotten aluminium is notoriously bad at taking a weld...and don't get me started on the quality of the alloy, then you'll be ok but it just isn't worth it in my opinion  

Thanks for taking the time to explain Nick and give me an idea of your background.

Due to the fact that I am not flush at the moment I am going to take my chances with what I have got. I might regret that in 6 months time (or even sooner) but right now I can't justify spending the money on new (second hand) heads for what is a second car that barely does 2000 miles a year!

[Marks DTM Calib]

You wont have any issues with them.....

[Marks DTM Calib]

Here is the best pic I have of the block face...

[ScottieMV6]

Thanks Mark.

I had a look at the block face on mine yesterday to try and get an idea of what you meant. I see exactly what you are saying now, the part of the head that is corroded corresponds exactly with the waterway in the block where there is no metal

[Marks DTM Calib]

Thanks Mark.

I had a look at the block face on mine yesterday to try and get an idea of what you meant. I see exactly what you are saying now, the part of the head that is corroded corresponds exactly with the waterway in the block where there is no metal

Correct, and hence there is no support or clamping offered in that area anyway

[ChevetteNick]

Do you mean to say that when you took your Toyota in for a service they remanufactured the engine because it was shit and not as good as a ford engine? :-?

Um no I don't. It was deemed by Toyota that at a certain mileage it would have worn outside their tolerances and so needed to be rectified.