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[Shackeng]

..in 2035. I think my nice rare silver 3.2 Elite just jumped a grand in value.

[aaronjb]

Yep only 15 years left for me to finish that kit car...

[STEMO]

..in 2035. I think my nice rare silver 3.2 Elite just jumped a grand in value.

It won't happen. That's 15 years away, far too little time to implement such a radical change. If other countries stick to less radical time scales, then the manufacturers will just move to where the market is and stick two fingers up at us.
Can you imagine this country getting the infrastructure in place to support millions of electric vehicles in 15 years?

[Rangie]

..in 2035. I think my nice rare silver 3.2 Elite just jumped a grand in value.

It won't happen. That's 15 years away, far too little time to implement such a radical change. If other countries stick to less radical time scales, then the manufacturers will just move to where the market is and stick two fingers up at us.
Can you imagine this country getting the infrastructure in place to support millions of electric vehicles in 15 years?

.   


Spot on , all talk it won't happen.

[Andy B]

Yep only 15 years left for me to finish that kit car...

so ... get  move on! 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

 It won't matter to many. Most of the old farts on here will be dead and gone by 2035.

[BazaJT]

Even if they can pull off the infrastructure/solve the generation of electricity by then it will be a good many more years before ICE vehicles are gone from the roads,unless they start taxing them beyond affordable limits,but then where does the government recoup the loss of revenue from VED fuel tax etc from?

[Sir Tigger KC]

It'll be great for the high street as no-one will be able to get to the out of town retail parks. 

Even horses will be banned in case they fart! 

[STEMO]

It'll be great for the high street as no-one will be able to get to the out of town retail parks. 

Even horses will be banned in case they fart! 

And they certainly can fart. When the one over the road lets rip, you can hear it all over the road.
I, being the infantile bastard that I am, piss myself laughing every time.

[Andy B]

It won't matter to many. Most of the old farts on here will be dead and gone by 2035.

speak for yourself ..... 

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Anyone heard that at these motorway service stations with charging points for your EV, the £ of leccy equates to the same as petrol/diesel?! So the pence per mile is identical to ICE car. Yyyup, astonishingly enough theyre using it as a cash cow, whodathunkit?

One definite result of widespread EVs I dont know if anyone else cynical has thought of....electricity prices going through the roof.

Unless there's some smart meter that can tell what 'kind' of electric you're using can be designed ie: you pay normal rate for general household useage, but pay 'premium' rate for EV electric. If not, well, as electric will be the new sought after commodity as oil is now....we all might be at the mercy of the utilities companies....even more so than we are now!

My thoughts, anyway 

[Rangie]

In 2035 if I'm still around I'll be 81 so quite honestly my driving days will probably be over if I'm sensible.

[Keith ABS]

 So why will your driving days be over? Everything will be self drive as well

[Rangie]

So why will your driving days be over? Everything will be self drive as well

.   

Always said that I will give up driving at 80 , don't want to be one of those old duffers that has never had an accident but caused several , in my opinion over 80 is too old to drive.

[aaronjb]

Anyone heard that at these motorway service stations with charging points for your EV, the £ of leccy equates to the same as petrol/diesel?! So the pence per mile is identical to ICE car. Yyyup, astonishingly enough theyre using it as a cash cow, whodathunkit?

Hm, where's Jimmy when you need him? He makes fairly regular use of these things IIRC..

Always said that I will give up driving at 80 , don't want to be one of those old duffers that has never had an accident but caused several , in my opinion over 80 is too old to drive.

If PE11 is anything like PE6 (the Deepings) where my folks live, you're going to want to move by then, then! There's bugger all out there Although they do at least have a decent bus service into Stamford (they're 76 & 72 respectively, Dad - 72 - still drives, Mum gave that up a few years after she passed her test and bounced his car off the gate post while he was on deployment for the Gulf War )

but then where does the government recoup the loss of revenue from VED fuel tax etc from?

What makes you think they aren't going to start taxing electric cars? They'll either do that, or as DBG says, they'll mandate separate feeds/smart meters for charging cars and will tax that, instead. Either way, they'll get their pound of flesh, don't worry!

[Rangie]

Anyone heard that at these motorway service stations with charging points for your EV, the £ of leccy equates to the same as petrol/diesel?! So the pence per mile is identical to ICE car. Yyyup, astonishingly enough theyre using it as a cash cow, whodathunkit?

Hm, where's Jimmy when you need him? He makes fairly regular use of these things IIRC..

Always said that I will give up driving at 80 , don't want to be one of those old duffers that has never had an accident but caused several , in my opinion over 80 is too old to drive.

If PE11 is anything like PE6 (the Deepings) where my folks live, you're going to want to move by then, then! There's bugger all out there Although they do at least have a decent bus service into Stamford (they're 76 & 72 respectively, Dad - 72 - still drives, Mum gave that up a few years after she passed her test and bounced his car off the gate post while he was on deployment for the Gulf War )

but then where does the government recoup the loss of revenue from VED fuel tax etc from?

What makes you think they aren't going to start taxing electric cars? They'll either do that, or as DBG says, they'll mandate separate feeds/smart meters for charging cars and will tax that, instead. Either way, they'll get their pound of flesh, don't worry!

.     


We are a 15 minute walk into Spalding so no intentions of moving again + we both have bus passes now so even Peterborough is just a 50 minute ride away. Never will have an electric vehicle , remember milk floats when I was a kid , electric just not progress in my eyes always aspired to V8s now on my third so completely satisfied with my motoring career.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Due to the average age on this forum, it won't be long until Uncle STEMO and Lord Opti are bickering over who has the best buggie!   

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Due to the average age on this forum, it won't be long until Uncle STEMO and Lord Opti are bickering over who has the best buggie!   

Don't lump me in with that geriatric light-fingered scouser.

I'm still in my prime.....still a babe magnet.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Due to the average age on this forum, it won't be long until Uncle STEMO and Lord Opti are bickering over who has the best buggie!   

Don't lump me in with that geriatric light-fingered scouser.

I'm still in my prime.....still a babe magnet down the day care centre.

FTFY M'Lud!    

[Shackeng]

So why will your driving days be over? Everything will be self drive as well

.   

Always said that I will give up driving at 80 , don't want to be one of those old duffers that has never had an accident but caused several , in my opinion over 80 is too old to drive.

Hmmm, having passed that magic number, I see many much younger who should not be driving. Only yesterday an idiot decided that driving at 50 along a narrow winding country lane, 6’ was an appropriate distance behind me. He discovered his error in a village, rendered single track by parked cars on our left, when he had to reverse 20yds to allow the oncoming bus through, which I, being a smug senile old duffer, had avoided in the only space available. 

[Rangie]

So why will your driving days be over? Everything will be self drive as well

.   

Always said that I will give up driving at 80 , don't want to be one of those old duffers that has never had an accident but caused several , in my opinion over 80 is too old to drive.

Hmmm, having passed that magic number, I see many much younger who should not be driving. Only yesterday an idiot decided that driving at 50 along a narrow winding country lane, 6’ was an appropriate distance behind me. He discovered his error in a village, rendered single track by parked cars on our left, when he had to reverse 20yds to allow the oncoming bus through, which I, being a smug senile old duffer, had avoided in the only space available. 

.   

Certainly not going to get into a debate over age regarding driving, as I said in my post this is purely my opinion / decision.

[Andy B]

I can only say that I have no problem being driven by my Dad who will be 83 this year 

[Andy B]

...., when he had to reverse 20yds to allow the oncoming bus through, which I, being a smug senile old duffer, had avoided in the only space available. 

 

[Raeturbo]

What type of generation are they going to use to supply all this power then? The high demand in winter uses nearly all the capacity we have already,  with perhaps 40 million vehicles  probably using more power per day than a house and more vehicles than houses, we will need to more than double what we have and build more pylons etc to supply it. how is it going to work?  Wind power and solar power surely won’t do it on its own and nuclear seems to be frowned on? Anyway just my thoughts.

[Andy B]

What type of generation are they going to use to supply all this power then? The high demand in winter uses nearly all the capacity we have already,  with perhaps 40 million vehicles  probably using more power per day than a house and more vehicles than houses, we will need to more than double what we have and build more pylons etc to supply it. how is it going to work?  Wind power and solar power surely won’t do it on its own and nuclear seems to be frowned on? Anyway just my thoughts.

Stop using common sense ..... 

[Doctor Gollum]

My next door neighbour had two prangs in two days before Christmas.

He finally got around to getting them repaired as his car is on a PCP and goes back around Easter. He got the car back about a week ago and it already has a fresh scrape on the side

On the flip side, I know a chap who is well into his seventies and still holds a current Class 1 licence, making a point of having a full medical every year.

[henryd]

I can only say that I have no problem being driven by my Dad who will be 83 this year 

My Dad towed a caravan till he was 86,we only stopped him because of the physical issues with hitching up etc

[YZ250]

but then where does the government recoup the loss of revenue from VED fuel tax etc from?

What makes you think they aren't going to start taxing electric cars? They'll either do that, or as DBG says, they'll mandate separate feeds/smart meters for charging cars and will tax that, instead. Either way, they'll get their pound of flesh, don't worry!

They already do tax any electric vehicle with an original price tag of over £40K and have done for a while. Certainly Tesla fall in to this bracket for the first five years of ownership, with VED coming in at over £300 annually. By the time that five years is up, they would have thought of something else to fill the loss of VED. Possibly pence per mile, who knows. 
There are plenty of Euro 6 diesels out there that currently cost £30 VED, but buy a new one now costing over £40K and the same vehicle will be around £465 annually for the first five years. It will then drop back to the original £30 VED, or will it. 
Remember, even buying one second hand, it's the original purchase price to the first owner that counts for the first five years. As you say, the money has to come from somewhere.

[456lbft]

Many random thoughts on this matter:-
Manufacturers are already investing millions in their "classic car" divisions which by then will be capable of "restoring" old cars for as long as there are people rich enough to buy and run them.
Conspiracy theorists will also already be thinking that Governments would like to retain enough non-renewable fuel to fight the next war they decide to wage, because electric jet planes, tanks and warships (the non-nuclear ones) are some way off yet.
The majority of local trains will still have to use diesel engines, even if they have to run some sort of eco-fuel.
Cities should have "electrified" their trams buses etc to make that possible and personal transport will probably be excluded.
They could turn all the rural disused railway lines into cycle paths, that might compensate the landowners for not being able to keep animal pastures anymore.
It's funny how we are being encouraged to turn to riding bikes, whereas the Chinese all want cars now (with very effective pollen filters)!

[Shackeng]

Climate change committee estimate we need 200,000 charging points by 2050 and investment of £100bn plus the equivalent of 10 Hinkley Point C power stations.

[BazaJT]

So no problem there then

[Doctor Gollum]

Good luck with that... 

[dave the builder]

we'll have to buy our own portable travel chargers 

[456lbft]

we'll have to buy our own portable travel chargers 

Put a tow hitch and wheels on it, and a big V8 petrol engine and I'll happily tow it behind my mandatory electric SUV.

[dave the builder]

we'll have to buy our own portable travel chargers 

Put a tow hitch and wheels on it, and a big V8 petrol engine and I'll happily tow it behind my mandatory electric SUV.

OR...
rip out the electricary gubbins from the Co-op milk float mandatory electric SUV, install the V8 ,then throw all said electricary gubbins in a trailer and leave the trailer on the drive at home, saving fuel ,which is good for the planet 

tractor juice (diesel) engines are better suited to running generators than petrol though

[456lbft]

we'll have to buy our own portable travel chargers 

Put a tow hitch and wheels on it, and a big V8 petrol engine and I'll happily tow it behind my mandatory electric SUV.

OR...
rip out the electricary gubbins from the Co-op milk float mandatory electric SUV, install the V8 ,then throw all said electricary gubbins in a trailer and leave the trailer on the drive at home, saving fuel ,which is good for the planet 

tractor juice (diesel) engines are better suited to running generators than petrol though

Apparently they have to take big diesel generators to the Formula E races to recharge all the car batteries, but the gennies run on glycerin, which makes it Okay

[dave the builder]

I bet for every 1 liter of glycerin fuel they use to power the generator....
 the lorry transport,then ship, then lorry transport uses about 2 liters of dirty diesel to get it to the UK and then to the race track
how very green   

[Doctor Gollum]

They were being ironic

[BazaJT]

There seems to be a lot of scaremongering or plain mis-understanding going off about this-I'm talking in general not about this thread-even if they pull it off it only refers to the sale of new cars,ICE vehicles will be around for many years yet.It could be that such vehicles may be heavily penalised to "encourage" getting rid of them but then can any government afford to alienate such a large portion of the electorate?

[Kevin Wood]

Problem solved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHA6urtPhDQ

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

When STEMO has to give up his diesel car there is an electric vehicle in his vicinity that will serve him well.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/electric-milk-float-1956-morris/274269132667?hash=item3fdbb6d77b:g:7MQAAOSw0LleR5oR

[Viral_Jim]

Anyone heard that at these motorway service stations with charging points for your EV, the £ of leccy equates to the same as petrol/diesel?! So the pence per mile is identical to ICE car. Yyyup, astonishingly enough theyre using it as a cash cow, whodathunkit?

Hm, where's Jimmy when you need him? He makes fairly regular use of these things IIRC..

Not been on the ball with this thread, but on the cost point, all the charge points I use cost around 30p/kWh for rapids (30Kw plus) the most costly are 39p. There is one company - ionity that is charging 60p+ but only for it's 350kw chargers iirc, and only if you aren't a member (which involves downloading a free app). So not really relevant unless you are a Porsche Taycan owner with no phone. Tesla charges 24p.

Given that my milkfloat's long term average is 4.2 miles per kWh, at 30p/Kw, its about 7.5p/mile Or the diesel equivalent of 75mpg.

Yes, the rapid chargers are a rip off compared to charging at home, but I view them similarly to fuelling up on the motorway - not done unless absolutely necessary.

The simple fact is that installing an new infrastructure is expensive so the companies need every installation to turn a good profit. As Shackeng mentioned 100bn by 2050... Personally I'd see that as a better investment than half of HS2. 

[STEMO]

There seems to be a lot of scaremongering or plain mis-understanding going off about this-I'm talking in general not about this thread-even if they pull it off it only refers to the sale of new cars,ICE vehicles will be around for many years yet.It could be that such vehicles may be heavily penalised to "encourage" getting rid of them but then can any government afford to alienate such a large portion of the electorate?

As was stated earlier, Baza, they could be killed off by the closure of uneconomic fuel stations. The big fuel companies won't keep expensive forecourts going if only a minority use them.

[Lizzie Zoom]

There seems to be a lot of scaremongering or plain mis-understanding going off about this-I'm talking in general not about this thread-even if they pull it off it only refers to the sale of new cars,ICE vehicles will be around for many years yet.It could be that such vehicles may be heavily penalised to "encourage" getting rid of them but then can any government afford to alienate such a large portion of the electorate?

As was stated earlier, Baza, they could be killed off by the closure of uneconomic fuel stations. The big fuel companies won't keep expensive forecourts going if only a minority use them.

Yes, the market will dictate that, but don't panic as you and I will have given up driving anything by then

[Lizzie Zoom]

Anyone heard that at these motorway service stations with charging points for your EV, the £ of leccy equates to the same as petrol/diesel?! So the pence per mile is identical to ICE car. Yyyup, astonishingly enough theyre using it as a cash cow, whodathunkit?

Hm, where's Jimmy when you need him? He makes fairly regular use of these things IIRC..

Not been on the ball with this thread, but on the cost point, all the charge points I use cost around 30p/kWh for rapids (30Kw plus) the most costly are 39p. There is one company - ionity that is charging 60p+ but only for it's 350kw chargers iirc, and only if you aren't a member (which involves downloading a free app). So not really relevant unless you are a Porsche Taycan owner with no phone. Tesla charges 24p.

Given that my milkfloat's long term average is 4.2 miles per kWh, at 30p/Kw, its about 7.5p/mile Or the diesel equivalent of 75mpg.

Yes, the rapid chargers are a rip off compared to charging at home, but I view them similarly to fuelling up on the motorway - not done unless absolutely necessary.

The simple fact is that installing an new infrastructure is expensive so the companies need every installation to turn a good profit. As Shackeng mentioned 100bn by 2050... Personally I'd see that as a better investment than half of HS2. 

Indeed.  The 18th Edition of Electrical Regulations, Section 722.311 onwards certainly ensures that no cowboy (cheap) installation of each charging point should be possible. This is just two sections:

Section 722.311 – Maximum Demand and Diversity
<IET>A dedicated final circuit shall be provided for the connection to electric vehicles

<EO> It is not possible to “daisy chain” the power to the charging stations. Each charging station shall have one dedicated supply with a dedicated RCD.

<IET> Where the final circuit supplies more than one charging point no diversity shall be allowed. Diversity may be allowed for a dedicated distribution circuit supplying multiple electric vehicle charging points if load control is available

<EO> if there is no load control, then the stations must have the full supply available e.g. if there are four 22KW stations then there must be 88KW available at all times.

However EO provide load control devices. The EO ALM unit (EO ALM Installation Guide) is available for the EO Basic and EO Mini products. The EO Genius also has Load Management options including scheduled, static and fully automatic (section 5 of EO Cloud User Guide).

Therefore diversity can be allowed with the correct use of EO’s load control products.

Section 722.411.4.1 – PME Earthing Systems
<IET> A PME earthing facility shall not be used as the means of earthing for the protective conductor contact of a charging point located outdoors or that might reasonably be expected to be used to charge a vehicle located outdoors.

<EO> This will mean that the use of an earthing rod is the primary mechanism for providing an earth connection for the charging station. The earth electrode should have a measured impedance of less than 150ohms in all normally expected conditions (e.g. summer or winter) to reliably charge all vehicles.

NOTE - The 18th edition also specify three scenarios where the use of PME is permitted. For example in the use of large 3 phase installations, the site’s earth is directly connected to the transformer and when a specific device is fitted to isolate all terminals in the case of a fault. However these 3 scenarios are the exception and not the intended norm.

It is not going to be ever a cheap installation times millions, and not one for the gifted amateur! 

Reading the whole regs on this subject, with diagrams, is very interesting though

[Migalot]

Oh, it's not just cars, either. The UK's whole future is looking distinctly dystopian.

"All UK airports must close by 2050 for the country to reach its target of net zero climate emissions by then, scientists say.
 
Because electric or zero-emission aircraft cannot be developed in time, most British airports will need to close by the end of this decade, and all flying will have to stop by 2050 until non-polluting versions are available.

Electrification of surface transport, rail and road, needs to be rapid, with the phasing out of all development of petrol and diesel cars immediately. Even if all private cars are electric, the amount of traffic will have to fall to 60% of 2020 levels by 2050, and all cars will have to be smaller.

The report also suggests that ships, currently heavy users of fossil fuels, need to convert to electric propulsion in order to allow for necessary imports and exports.

Although such luxuries as flying away on holiday and driving large cars will have to be foregone, and eating beef and lamb curtailed, the scientists say that life could be just as rich as today.

They say: “… sports, social life, eating, hobbies, games, computing, reading, TV, music, radio, volunteering (and sleeping!) We can all do more of these without any impact on emissions”."


This is an extract of a government-funded report (published yesterday) by, yes you've guessed it, Cambridge University. 

https://climatenewsnetwork.net/uk-airports-must-shut-to-reach-2050-climate-target



Meanwhile Patrick Moore, the ex co-founder of Greenpeace (a very ecologically-minded chap) stated, two days ago, "For those who are focused on the past 150 yrs, I suggest beginning with The Big Picture. Alarmists tend to ignore everything before 1850 because it does not support their fairytale “climate emergency” Actually, absolutely nothing supports a “climate emergency”. It is a meme."

Exactly, Mr Moore.

 

[Raeturbo]

I think all humans are hypocrites in a way, there is no way we can influence what’s happening to this planets weather, What will be will be, end of.

[Kevin Wood]

Zero emission aircraft? What have they been smoking.

Oh, wait!..

[New POD]

It won't matter to many. Most of the old farts on here will be dead and gone by 2035.

Traditionally members of my family have bought a brand new car on the day they retire.
One Grandad bought an allagro vandom plahhhhhh, another a consol Capri. Father bought a focus 2.0 ghia ( and is on his third brand new focus in 20 years.) Father in law bought a new mk4 astra (which my son has with just 60k in 20 years - 45k in the last 3 yesrs)
So given my current retirement plans* it looks like 2037 is about my most likely date.
I look forward to owning an electric car.  Or not.