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Author Topic: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc  (Read 4561 times)

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pscocoa

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Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« on: 13 February 2020, 08:32:27 »

Reading up a bit (and in the context of knowing enough to be dangerous) it seems that if you are running an up to date Windows 10 and have basic requirements (I use 365 and Office mainly) then there is no need to go for other security/antivirus products. Is that a fair assessment?
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deviator

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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #1 on: 13 February 2020, 11:11:30 »

No.

Documents can be infected. If you use the internet at all on that computer, you need AV.

Personally, I use Avast or AVG as they are both free.
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #2 on: 13 February 2020, 11:20:16 »


I do think you need decent AV

I tried McAfee a few years ago and will never use it again. It was incredibly difficult to uninstall/remove, but this was some years ago, it may have changed.

I use Norton. You can usually find a good deal at about £25 or so for a year that covers 5 or sometimes more devices. I never do the online renewal as it is always cheaper to just buy it again. Rymans often have a cheap deal, and sometimes various computer magazines.

I tried free Avast a while back. Didn't like it, and again hard to get rid of.

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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #3 on: 13 February 2020, 13:22:41 »

I have used F-Secure for years and have never had a problem with them. :D ;)
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #4 on: 13 February 2020, 15:18:32 »

Thanks all - may try Malwarebytes this time then
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #5 on: 14 February 2020, 10:50:21 »

McAfee is difficult to remove, but there is a tool to remove all McAfee from your PC. It's very clunky, the interface hasn't been updated in decades and it was shocking 20 years ago. I does a reasonable job at AV.

Norton - just don't. I don't know if they've improved it since the last time I looked at it, but the performance hit from running NAV I found unacceptable. The software behaves more like a virus than a piece of software, to the point were the virus maybe preferable.

MalwareBytes is for malware. It will find some viruses, as there is crossover, but it's not virus protection.
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #6 on: 14 February 2020, 18:27:08 »

McAfee is difficult to remove, but there is a tool to remove all McAfee from your PC. It's very clunky, the interface hasn't been updated in decades and it was shocking 20 years ago. I does a reasonable job at AV.

Norton - just don't. I don't know if they've improved it since the last time I looked at it, but the performance hit from running NAV I found unacceptable. The software behaves more like a virus than a piece of software, to the point were the virus maybe preferable.

MalwareBytes is for malware. It will find some viruses, as there is crossover, but it's not virus protection.

Been running Norton for about 20 years - never had a problem.

Don't touch McAfee with a barge pole.
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #7 on: 15 February 2020, 10:37:22 »

If you are not visiting dodgy sites looking for "educational" adult material or hooky software, the built in MS product is the best by some margin.

The biggest tips for security are not to be a first class idiot and lower UAC presets (if you do, you deserve to be banned from the Internet), and not run with an admin type account - always sign on as a limited user. Always.  Trust me, your ego is significantly larger than your talent if you don't.


Other products don't really make sense on Windows, they slow it down, they consume vast resources, and they cause lots and lots of problems.  The paid for ones have advantages in the enterprise world due to centralised reporting and control.


For all the gays creative types out there, remember that macOS needs AV as well, and Macs are now the fastest growing area for nasties - mostly because of the stupidity of its users believing they are immune.
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #8 on: 15 February 2020, 12:05:59 »

If you are not visiting dodgy sites looking for "educational" adult material or hooky software, the built in MS product is the best by some margin.

The biggest tips for security are not to be a first class idiot and lower UAC presets (if you do, you deserve to be banned from the Internet), and not run with an admin type account - always sign on as a limited user. Always.  Trust me, your ego is significantly larger than your talent if you don't.


Other products don't really make sense on Windows, they slow it down, they consume vast resources, and they cause lots and lots of problems.  The paid for ones have advantages in the enterprise world due to centralised reporting and control.


For all the gays creative types out there, remember that macOS needs AV as well, and Macs are now the fastest growing area for nasties - mostly because of the stupidity of its users believing they are immune.

Thanks that is what I was hoping to hear. I chose Malwarebytes as the pc guy I use suggested it - apparently it works happily alongside Windows protection without the slowdown. I have it on trial at the minute.
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #9 on: 15 February 2020, 13:51:27 »

What are UAC presets ? And how would I know if Im logged on as an administrator ?
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #10 on: 15 February 2020, 13:57:59 »

What are UAC presets ? And how would I know if Im logged on as an administrator ?

+1
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #11 on: 15 February 2020, 15:13:04 »

UAC = Use Account Control - I do not mess with anything like this in windows 10
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #12 on: 15 February 2020, 20:22:57 »

macafee was the system that came with my present laptop. my subscription is due in april but already i am getting reminders. i dont know if this is a kind of scam or what but last week the machine wasnt responding to anything & out of the blue (just freezing all the time ) an email arrived from macafee offering me a service that would normally cost almost £50 for free if i rang a number & let them take control of the laptop. i ended up rebooting & for the last two days its been ok. plus macafee subscription charge has doubled this coming year.
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #13 on: 15 February 2020, 21:20:27 »

The same thing happened to my sister in law last week - underhand practice at best
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #14 on: 15 February 2020, 23:47:52 »

UAC = Use Account Control - I do not mess with anything like this in windows 10

Im none the wiser. If I had messed with it, I wouldn't know.
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #15 on: 16 February 2020, 11:18:15 »

macafee was the system that came with my present laptop. my subscription is due in april but already i am getting reminders. i dont know if this is a kind of scam or what but last week the machine wasnt responding to anything & out of the blue (just freezing all the time ) an email arrived from macafee offering me a service that would normally cost almost £50 for free if i rang a number & let them take control of the laptop. i ended up rebooting & for the last two days its been ok. plus macafee subscription charge has doubled this coming year.
That's a scam, as is any request to take control of your PC, usually via Teamviewer, but that will change to something else soon*

I'd potentially not renew McAfee, just uninstall, and revert to Windows Defender.


*The large ISPs - those with blocking capabilities - are all looking to block Teamviewer, because it is such a massive issue, despite the fact it is a useful and legitimate tool.
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #16 on: 16 February 2020, 11:25:17 »

What are UAC presets ? And how would I know if Im logged on as an administrator ?
Do you ever get prompts, normally when installing shit, that asks "To you want to allow this program to make changes on your device", offering Yes or No?

That is UAC, and its setting is in "Change User Account Control settings" on Win10 (Start, click settings cog (then click settings on pop up if on very latest Win10), and in search box at top, type uac


If you don't get a prompt after pressing Yes, you are an admin, thus dropping your pants, putting you head between your knees, and inviting anyone on the internet to butt rape you.
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #17 on: 08 March 2020, 12:39:43 »

What are UAC presets ? And how would I know if Im logged on as an administrator ?
Do you ever get prompts, normally when installing shit, that asks "To you want to allow this program to make changes on your device", offering Yes or No?

That is UAC, and its setting is in "Change User Account Control settings" on Win10 (Start, click settings cog (then click settings on pop up if on very latest Win10), and in search box at top, type uac


If you don't get a prompt after pressing Yes, you are an admin, thus dropping your pants, putting you head between your knees, and inviting anyone on the internet to butt rape you.

Unless you log in as an admin, you cannot do certain software updates, so how do you get around that :P
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #18 on: 08 March 2020, 12:51:21 »

I do indeed get prompts, so Im not an admin. Hope I don't need to be an admin in future, coz I don't know how to.
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #19 on: 08 March 2020, 13:20:40 »

What are UAC presets ? And how would I know if Im logged on as an administrator ?
Do you ever get prompts, normally when installing shit, that asks "To you want to allow this program to make changes on your device", offering Yes or No?

That is UAC, and its setting is in "Change User Account Control settings" on Win10 (Start, click settings cog (then click settings on pop up if on very latest Win10), and in search box at top, type uac


If you don't get a prompt after pressing Yes, you are an admin, thus dropping your pants, putting you head between your knees, and inviting anyone on the internet to butt rape you.

So you should get a second prompt after pressing Yes? I don't only the first, so I must be Admin, will chase this up. :-\ :y
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #20 on: 08 March 2020, 16:33:35 »

What are UAC presets ? And how would I know if Im logged on as an administrator ?
Do you ever get prompts, normally when installing shit, that asks "To you want to allow this program to make changes on your device", offering Yes or No?

That is UAC, and its setting is in "Change User Account Control settings" on Win10 (Start, click settings cog (then click settings on pop up if on very latest Win10), and in search box at top, type uac


If you don't get a prompt after pressing Yes, you are an admin, thus dropping your pants, putting you head between your knees, and inviting anyone on the internet to butt rape you.

Unless you log in as an admin, you cannot do certain software updates, so how do you get around that :P
Windows updates will still go ahead. 3rd party software may need admin rights, but only to do the update.  If you are logged on as a limited user, and your are doing such an update, you will be prompted for some admin credentials, which you can enter if you are absolutely 100% sure the software being deployed is pukka and not laden with nasties.

So, day to day, you should *ALWAYS* absolutely, categorically, 100% log on as a limited user. Without fail.
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #21 on: 08 March 2020, 16:38:01 »

I do indeed get prompts, so Im not an admin. Hope I don't need to be an admin in future, coz I don't know how to.
Sorry, my earlier wording was incorrect.  If you get a Yes/No prompt, then you are running as an admin.  If you get asked for an admin username and password, then you are running as a limited user.

Limited user = good
Admin user = bad (or you ego exceeds your competence, for those that think they are clever enough to run in such a way)
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #22 on: 08 March 2020, 16:43:33 »

Oh dear. Looks like I need to address that then.
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Shackeng

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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #23 on: 08 March 2020, 17:24:07 »

Pardon my ignorance, but I don't follow the logic of this. The implication is that if you don't get a prompt, asking if you want to allow 'whatever' to change your computer, then you presumably can allow it to do so without a prompt. Yet as I understand your instructions, under such circumstances, ie allowed to change computer without a prompt, you are not Admin. :-\ :-\ :-\
I am sure that when I was running Win 7, and certainly since running 10, I always have had a prompt, so I must have always unknowingly been running as Admin.
NB I had serious troubles trying to instal 10 being asked to have an MS account and finishing up with several usernames trying to avoid opening such an account, and I keep getting reminders that there is a problem with the MS account which, I hope, I don't have anyway. :-[ :-[ :-[
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #24 on: 09 March 2020, 07:43:49 »

You need two accounts, one as an admin, one as a limited user.

You log in as a limited user - when you try to update certain software you will be prompted for your admin credentials.

Windows update does not require admin credentials.
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Shackeng

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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #25 on: 09 March 2020, 12:06:08 »

You need two accounts, one as an admin, one as a limited user.

You log in as a limited user - when you try to update certain software you will be prompted for your admin credentials.

Windows update does not require admin credentials.

Now I'm even more confused. The prompts I was referring to ask something like "Do you wish to allow this (?) to make changes to your computer?" The options are 'yes' or 'no'. I do not recall ever being asked for admin credentials, either in 7 or 10, and wouldn't know what they were if it did. :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-[

 I've just checked 'My Account' in Settings, which is described as described as Local Account Administrator. So how do I open a 'Limited Account' to avoid the pitfalls described by Jaime?
« Last Edit: 09 March 2020, 12:12:14 by Shackeng »
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #26 on: 09 March 2020, 15:45:25 »

Having googled it, I've discovered this:

Windows 10 Home now forces you to sign in with a Microsoft account—unless you disconnect from the internet first. Microsoft has always wanted you to sign in with a Microsoft account, but now it’s going even further.

The option to sign in with a classic local Windows account was always rather hidden behind an “Offline Account” option. Now, we’ve confirmed that it’s vanished entirely from Windows 10’s setup process.

So unless I open a MS account, I can only login Win 10 with my admin account, even with internet disconnected. >:( >:( >:(
Its enough to turn me into a Mac buyer. :-X
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #27 on: 09 March 2020, 15:58:06 »

For now, you can still skip the iCloud account step of setting up a new Mac - I expect that to change, in time, and for it to be mandatory for home users, just like Microsoft is/are making their Microsoft account step.
Linux or BSD will be your only options at that point...

Increasingly MS/Apple are giving the OS away "for free" and you know what they say - if you aren't paying for the service then you are the service.
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #28 on: 09 March 2020, 17:02:42 »

Home does allow local accounts.  Ignore the crap written by journalists. IT journalists are particularly piss poor.

The key is to disconnect it during the OOBE phase of the install.


The fact you are getting asked Yes/No for something to do something potentially dangerous means you are running as admin.  That means a rogue process (opening infected emails, installing something, visiting hijacked websites and so on) can a) disable the prompts, b) install anything, stealthily.  This is far less likely if you log on as a limited user, as you have to specifically give admin details should you need to do/install/remove anything that needs admin rights.

Running as a non privileged user is top 3 in security tips anywhere.
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #29 on: 10 March 2020, 07:49:44 »

 
Home does allow local accounts.  Ignore the crap written by journalists. IT journalists are particularly piss poor.

The key is to disconnect it during the OOBE phase of the install.


The fact you are getting asked Yes/No for something to do something potentially dangerous means you are running as admin.  That means a rogue process (opening infected emails, installing something, visiting hijacked websites and so on) can a) disable the prompts, b) install anything, stealthily.  This is far less likely if you log on as a limited user, as you have to specifically give admin details should you need to do/install/remove anything that needs admin rights.

Running as a non privileged user is top 3 in security tips anywhere.

Thanks for confirming that. I have therefore been running as admin both on Win7 and Win10, and as explained above I am unable to use a local account (unless I set up a MS account). Although various help sites, including MS, give instructions to ...”Sign in to local account instead”.
This link does not appear on my system, presumably because I do not have the MS account.
I am not the only person to have this problem, but it seems, as you imply, that I either give in and sign up or reinstall Win 10.  >:( >:( >:(
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #30 on: 10 March 2020, 16:52:14 »

Click Start, then type compmgmt.msc and pick Computer Management from the list

Expand up Users and Groups, then Users.

Create 2 users, one as a member of Administrators, one not.
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #31 on: 11 March 2020, 07:23:07 »

Click Start, then type compmgmt.msc and pick Computer Management from the list

Expand up Users and Groups, then Users.

Create 2 users, one as a member of Administrators, one not.

Thanks, didn’t find that in Windows for Dummies. I’ll tiptoe through.  :y
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #32 on: 11 March 2020, 09:47:13 »

No Users and Groups under Computer Management in mine. :-\ :-\ :-\
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Re: Windows Defender/Security v Mcafee/Norton etc
« Reply #33 on: 11 March 2020, 09:58:27 »

As I could'nt find Users and Groups under Comp. Mngmnt, I typed in 'Users and Groups'  which brings up:
"This snapin may not be used with this edition of Windows 10......use the User Accounts tool in the Control Panel"
which of course takes me back to square 1. >:( >:( >:(
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