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[terry paget]

2008 Vectra petrol manual 1.8 saloon

Changing the heater matrix on above car, Haynes says 'remove the footwell  trim panel on the driver's side, as described in Chapter 11.
I think Haynes then describes how to do this on the passenger side. Above pic shows the driver's side. There is a footrest in the way, and a clutch pedal.  How do I remove the footrest? Any more tips?

[Doctor Gollum]

In your pic, there's a silver looking pin. Pull that out with pliers.
Push the footrest forwards and down away from the centre console.
Slide towards the brake pedal and it should fall off.

It's held by the pin and located by a tab under the side panel.

[terry paget]

Thanks Doc. I could not have done it without your help.

[terry paget]

Heater matrix pipes to matrix clamps are removed, but pipes are firmly attached, and it will take more force to separate them than I can apply by hand. How do I separate them?

[Doctor Gollum]

Unclamp/disconnect the pipes from the engine side of the bulkhead. That should the allow them to move out of the way.

DO NOT force them as they are. Otherwise you will be pulling the dash to replace the pipes

[terry paget]

Unclamp/disconnect the pipes from the engine side of the bulkhead. That should the allow them to move out of the way.

DO NOT force them as they are. Otherwise you will be pulling the dash to replace the pipes

Already done, Haynes. The joint between pipes is still tight. Should I pull pipe while tapping the joint with a nylon hammer?

[terry paget]

That didn't work either. It appears to be a metal to metal compression joint which does not release when unclamped. Maybe I should lift the bonnet ends of the pipes, that would give a twisting force that might release the joints. Please advise.

[terry paget]

I suspect a tongue at the end of the pipe goes inside the matrix pipe. Maybe a hot air blower on the matrix pipe might release it. I don't think a flame would be a good idea.

[Doctor Gollum]

Judicious use of a butter knife worked around the joint to carefully pry the pipes apart.

Using any force will result in replacing the pipes.

[Marks DTM Calib]

You need to get something im the gap like a butter knife as suggested.

Also see if you can get any rotation  on the joint, even a small amount should help to break the stiction of the rubbers

[terry paget]

Thanks for advice. This morning I heated the matrix-pipe joint with a hot air gun, sprayed it with WD40, heaved the pipes about, then inserted a small screwdriver into the pipes join and twisted it, and a little coolant trickled out. Joy. Bigger screwdriver got both pipes off.

I pulled the matrix out some way, then it fouled on the trim panel beneath the clutch pedal. Bother.
Do I saw off that bit of panel, or remove the whole panel? Or should the matrix come out with the panel in place?

Grandson (5)  went back to school today, called in on the way, in his uniform and with bags of books, PE kit and welly boots.

[terry paget]

I realised I had removed that panel before, to change the clutch switch.
I did wonder how the clip and rubbber ring fitted to seal the pipes to the matrix, but looking at the old pipes I understand. 

[Doctor Gollum]

Getting there

[terry paget]

Having inserted the new matrix in its slot, and put the new washers on the pipes, I am struggling to get the clips over the connection. Obviously the clips and washers were designed to be easily assembled, but there must be a technique, which is so obvious that Haynes does not mention it.

I feel I should pull the joint together, then pull the clip together aound the flanges, then insert the screw and tighten it. It's not so easy! Any tipe will be appreciated.

[terry paget]

Have spent the day failing to attach the pipes to the new matrix. Any tipes very welcome.

[Nick W]

Lubricate the seals - washing up liquid is good, vaseline, whatever
Use stronger hands.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Talc or washing up liquid, never vaseline as it rots rubber

[Doctor Gollum]

Judicious use of long nosed pliers to squeeze the flanges together. The clips won't fit securely until the flanges are close enough.

Don’t damage them though

[Nick W]

Talc or washing up liquid, never vaseline as it rots rubber

Oh.


Wish you had told me that 30 years ago.

[Kevin Wood]

Talc or washing up liquid, never vaseline as it rots rubber

Oh.


Wish you had told me that 30 years ago.

Didn't need it 30 years ago.

Oh, wait! What type of rubber product are we dealing with?

[terry paget]

Judicious use of long nosed pliers to squeeze the flanges together. The clips won't fit securely until the flanges are close enough.

Don’t damage them though

I appreciate that. I have spent all day failing to get those wretched clips on. The clips don't pull the flanges together, do they? It's ridiculous that this task is so difficult. I have tried gluing the washers into the holes in the matrix, then I cannot get the pipes into the washers. It's hard to apply much pressure on the pipes in that location.
Any more tips would be much appreciated.

[Doctor Gollum]

The clips HOLD the pipes together, and won't fit until the pipes are fully seated.

Are the connections in the engine bay still disconnected?

[terry paget]

Yes, pipes in engine bay are still disconnected.
I have tried to pull the flanges together with long nosed pliers, it helps, but not enough. I have lubricated the pipes and washers with washing up liquid.
This job should be easy, but it is not! I am at my wit's end struggling to join a pipe to a matrix. All over the car there are hoses on pipes, held by hose clips; they are no trouble.

[Doctor Gollum]

Not sure what elsee to suggest unless there's a special tool for it 

[terry paget]

Thanks for your help, Doc. The special tool would b a pair of pliers, with fingers 25mm apart on each grip to pull the flanges together.
I imagine on assembly the lads have some way of easily making the connections.

[Doctor Gollum]

You could try popping them apart, then spray some silicon lube into the female side of the fitting and having another go. Fit one pipe at a time

[terry paget]

This job is driving me nuts. Surely all I should need to do is put the washers on the pipes from the engine compartment, push the pipes into the matrix, assemble the clamp around the junction, push the pipe into the matrix, and tighten the clamp, ensuring it turns freely around the join.
Problem is pushing the pipe into the matrix far enough to allow the clamp to sit astride both flanges. My son, with stronger hands, had a go, but he too failed.
It seems daft to scrap the car. I suppose I could emply a garage to do the job.

[Nick W]

You have checked that the new matrix fittings are  the same as the original? And that the original is easy to fit?


Perhaps the gaskets are distorted?


Or the new ones aren't the right shape, and you would be better off using the old ones with some sealant - the cheap matrix I fitted to the Omega required that.

[terry paget]

You have checked that the new matrix fittings are  the same as the original? And that the original is easy to fit?


Perhaps the gaskets are distorted?


Or the new ones aren't the right shape, and you would be better off using the old ones with some sealant - the cheap matrix I fitted to the Omega required that.

Checking today. Both old and new matrices fit OK, and the pipes fit in them easily without gaskets.
One original gasket was destroyed on dismantling, the other fits well. The new gaskets are not identical to the originals. I tried gluing them into the new matrix, then I could not get the pipes in at all.
I visited my local Vx dealer, only to learn that the gaskets are not available alone, they only come in a £250 kit.
I tried reconnecting the pipes and matrix, the old washer fitted well, but the new one not so well. could not get the flanges close to each other.
Looks like some delicate surgery on a new washer might solve things, or just make it leak. Food for thought.

[Doctor Gollum]

A thought...

The new matrix doesn't have its own seals already fitted?

Obviously the pipes won't fit if the matrix has seals fitted and the pipes have seals fitted... You would bend the flanges before getting two seals in each fitting to compress enough to fit the clamp.

Also, if the matrix already has seals fitted, you need to be bloody careful fitting the pipes to ensure that they only go in true otherwise they will cut chunks out of the seals... This causes two problems... Obviously chewed seals WILL leak, and secondly, being new, they will be resistant to the pipes going in 'on the piss', which will make fitting them a nightmare unless the alignment is spot on. 

[terry paget]

A thought...

The new matrix doesn't have its own seals already fitted?

Obviously the pipes won't fit if the matrix has seals fitted and the pipes have seals fitted... You would bend the flanges before getting two seals in each fitting to compress enough to fit the clamp.

Also, if the matrix already has seals fitted, you need to be bloody careful fitting the pipes to ensure that they only go in true otherwise they will cut chunks out of the seals... This causes two problems... Obviously chewed seals WILL leak, and secondly, being new, they will be resistant to the pipes going in 'on the piss', which will make fitting them a nightmare unless the alignment is spot on. 

New matrix arived without fitted seals, with 2 seals and clamps in an envelope.
I imagine young frauleins popping into Vectras on the assembly line and inserting heater matrices, seals and clamps in 15 seconds. It must be a simple and reliable way of fitting. Haynes does not mention it, so it must be obvious. I tried pushing the pipe into the matrix, bending the clamp around the joint, popping in the screw, job done. Tried it, it didn't work.

[Doctor Gollum]

Bending anything is asking for trouble

If the pipe ends fit the seals ok, try seating the seals in the matrix THEN inserting the pipes...

Report back

[terry paget]

Bending anything is asking for trouble

If the pipe ends fit the seals ok, try seating the seals in the matrix THEN inserting the pipes...

Report back

I tried that in reply 20#.

[terry paget]

I appreciate bending things in general is unwise, but the clips for the pipes are designed to bend at the 'hinge', while the rest of the clip retains its shape. So I hoped I could push the pipe, with grommet on it,  into the matrix with one hand, then bend the clip around them with the other hand, then pop in the screw, job done.
I must try again.

[johnnydog]

Having never done this job (on any modern car), but appreciating access is difficult, how much of both pipes are visible once the trim is refitted? How much spare room around the two pipes is there once they exit the matrix?
Having struggled as you have, I would be tempted to visit a breakers, and see if you can salvage identical pipes from another car, either in one piece if the car is quite bare, or by cutting them. Sounds drastic, but with cut pieces of pipe, you may be able to more easily assemble them off the car into the matrix with the seals and clips, putting it back in situ, and then joining the two pieces on each pipe with a section of rubber hose held by (dare I say it ) - jubilee clips. The actual pressure in the system would not be an issue for joins of this type.
It all depends on how room there is, if there is space for joining hose pieces with clips, and the important bit - once cut there would be no going back.
That's why a visit to a breakers could be beneficial to experiment and assess it before you did anything further.
Like I say, I've never delved into that area on any modern car (never had cause to) so I am merely offering a possible alternative solution.
If you haven't already, for the time it takes, I think I would take the seat out just for easier access and manoeuverability.

[terry paget]

I am struggling to seal the pipes to the heater matrix. The upper pipe has sealed twice on assembly, but the lower joint - should have been easier -has failed twice. I cannot get genuine Vx washers without buying a Vx kit, for £250. I am tempted to use a silicone sealant, but am worried if it still leaked I would struggle to dismantle it again. Please advise.

[Doctor Gollum]

I would caution against bodging it back together. If it leaks and needs pulling apart again then you will run into issues getting all the sealant out of the way in order to refit everything.

Have you looked at your spares Astra for the seals on that?

[terry paget]

Removing washers from Astra looks like  big job. I tried some Blue RTV silicone gasket maker last night, but that failed to seal. I also have some Loctite SI5980 black silicone I could try, and some Loctite SI5990 copper silicone. though neither seems ideal for this job. Please advise.
At least I have got it part again.

[Doctor Gollum]

A bit of effort, or bite the bullet and buy the factory parts...

Not sure what else to suggest, as obviously bodging it will never work

[Nick W]

Removing washers from Astra looks like  big job. I tried some Blue RTV silicone gasket maker last night, but that failed to seal. I also have some Loctite SI5980 black silicone I could try, and some Loctite SI5990 copper silicone. though neither seems ideal for this job. Please advise.
At least I have got it part again.

It's only a cooling system: use whatever seals you can find that allow you to get the retaining clamp in place. Use a generous amount of ordinary clear silicone sealant on the seals, pipes, clamping surfaces etc. Ensure that whatever oozes out on assembly is wiped into the entire joint.


This will look terrible, which doesn't matter because  it's hidden behind the dash,

[terry paget]

Thank you gentlemen. I am surprised at the method of sealing used; the pic in reply #3 shows the pipes in the matrix, and the clips in reply#33 close around them with a washer between them. I received new washers and clips with my new matrix, cost me £32. The Vx kit costs £250; I suspect it is no simpler to install.
I shall persevere.

[Doctor Gollum]

Thank you gentlemen. I am surprised at the method of sealing used; the pic in reply #3 shows the pipes in the matrix, and the clips in reply#33 close around them with a washer between them. I received new washers and clips with my new matrix, cost me £32. The Vx kit costs £250; I suspect it is no simpler to install.
I shall persevere.

At least you now know why it was only £32...

Try this...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-VECTRA-C-SIGNUM-HEATER-MATRIX-SEALS-02-08-HEATER-CORE/153273799705?fits=Car+Make%3AVauxhall%7CModel%3AVectra&hash=item23afd49419:g:lzwAAOSwLSZb993n 

[Nick W]

Having suggested lubricant sometime ago, I found what I normally use for tight fitting rubber hoses, grips, O-rings etc.
That is basic silicone spray like THIS. That's not the one I have, that I acquired from stores 20 years ago,, which shows how little is needed. It has the advantage over silicone sealant(or any of the other similar gunges) of not adding any extra bulky material to the joint, which might help here.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Having consulted a man in the know, he advises:

The seals are a top hat type affair, lubricate the metal tubes and insides (only) of the seals with silicon lube and place the seals into the opening on the matrix, then insert the tube carefully into the matrix (where the seals are seated).

Apparently, if you fit the seals to the tube first, then the top hat section does not go fully home into the matrix and the clip wont go on.

Lost of lube on the metal tube is key

[terry paget]

Having consulted a man in the know, he advises:

The seals are a top hat type affair, lubricate the metal tubes and insides (only) of the seals with silicon lube and place the seals into the opening on the matrix, then insert the tube carefully into the matrix (where the seals are seated).

Apparently, if you fit the seals to the tube first, then the top hat section does not go fully home into the matrix and the clip wont go on.

Lost of lube on the metal tube is key

Thanks for that tip from a man who knows. It makes sense. In reply #20, 13 days ago, I tried gluing the washers into the matrix, trouble then was getting the pipes into the washers. Trouble today has been the washers falling out of the matrix as I insert the matrix, or as I insert the pipes into the washers. Trouble now is the washers are stretched and deformed, so misbehave.

[terry paget]

Thank you gentlemen. I am surprised at the method of sealing used; the pic in reply #3 shows the pipes in the matrix, and the clips in reply#33 close around them with a washer between them. I received new washers and clips with my new matrix, cost me £32. The Vx kit costs £250; I suspect it is no simpler to install.
I shall persevere.

At least you now know why it was only £32...

Try this...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-VECTRA-C-SIGNUM-HEATER-MATRIX-SEALS-02-08-HEATER-CORE/153273799705?fits=Car+Make%3AVauxhall%7CModel%3AVectra&hash=item23afd49419:g:lzwAAOSwLSZb993n 

Thanks Doc. Looks worth buying just for the washers.

[terry paget]

I bought that used matrix, Doc, just for the washers. It should have arrived last Wednesday  but has not arrived yet. Meanwhile the Vectra, MOT expiring on October 14th, sits dead in my garage, dry of coolant. Fitting the matrix must be straightforward, a job done on the assembly line, but I cannot do it. Sounds like DG and Nick have done it, is there a trick? Haynes is no help. Please advise.

[Nick W]

What can we tell you that we haven't already? It's a tight fit, that needs some effort to get in place. It's a damn sight easier than getting the oil cooler lines on a Yak 18 back through the wing roots and under the floor. Which took me all afternoon, and I couldn't feel my fingers when I'd finished.

[terry paget]

What can we tell you that we haven't already? It's a tight fit, that needs some effort to get in place. It's a damn sight easier than getting the oil cooler lines on a Yak 18 back through the wing roots and under the floor. Which took me all afternoon, and I couldn't feel my fingers when I'd finished.

Thanks, Nick. It doesn't help that Vx don't sell the washers separate from the matrix. I have assembled it a couple of times, only to find coolant leaks later. I expected to find hoses stuffed on pipes and sealed with jubilee clips. 

[Doctor Gollum]

Not even the Omega uses that arrangement...

[TheBoy]

I expected to find hoses stuffed on pipes and sealed with jubilee clips.

No manufacturer would ever do that now, as they dont want to deal with the associated warranty claims.