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[terry paget]

A thought...

The new matrix doesn't have its own seals already fitted?

Obviously the pipes won't fit if the matrix has seals fitted and the pipes have seals fitted... You would bend the flanges before getting two seals in each fitting to compress enough to fit the clamp.

Also, if the matrix already has seals fitted, you need to be bloody careful fitting the pipes to ensure that they only go in true otherwise they will cut chunks out of the seals... This causes two problems... Obviously chewed seals WILL leak, and secondly, being new, they will be resistant to the pipes going in 'on the piss', which will make fitting them a nightmare unless the alignment is spot on. 

New matrix arived without fitted seals, with 2 seals and clamps in an envelope.
I imagine young frauleins popping into Vectras on the assembly line and inserting heater matrices, seals and clamps in 15 seconds. It must be a simple and reliable way of fitting. Haynes does not mention it, so it must be obvious. I tried pushing the pipe into the matrix, bending the clamp around the joint, popping in the screw, job done. Tried it, it didn't work.

[Doctor Gollum]

Bending anything is asking for trouble

If the pipe ends fit the seals ok, try seating the seals in the matrix THEN inserting the pipes...

Report back

[terry paget]

Bending anything is asking for trouble

If the pipe ends fit the seals ok, try seating the seals in the matrix THEN inserting the pipes...

Report back

I tried that in reply 20#.

[terry paget]

I appreciate bending things in general is unwise, but the clips for the pipes are designed to bend at the 'hinge', while the rest of the clip retains its shape. So I hoped I could push the pipe, with grommet on it,  into the matrix with one hand, then bend the clip around them with the other hand, then pop in the screw, job done.
I must try again.

[johnnydog]

Having never done this job (on any modern car), but appreciating access is difficult, how much of both pipes are visible once the trim is refitted? How much spare room around the two pipes is there once they exit the matrix?
Having struggled as you have, I would be tempted to visit a breakers, and see if you can salvage identical pipes from another car, either in one piece if the car is quite bare, or by cutting them. Sounds drastic, but with cut pieces of pipe, you may be able to more easily assemble them off the car into the matrix with the seals and clips, putting it back in situ, and then joining the two pieces on each pipe with a section of rubber hose held by (dare I say it ) - jubilee clips. The actual pressure in the system would not be an issue for joins of this type.
It all depends on how room there is, if there is space for joining hose pieces with clips, and the important bit - once cut there would be no going back.
That's why a visit to a breakers could be beneficial to experiment and assess it before you did anything further.
Like I say, I've never delved into that area on any modern car (never had cause to) so I am merely offering a possible alternative solution.
If you haven't already, for the time it takes, I think I would take the seat out just for easier access and manoeuverability.

[terry paget]

I am struggling to seal the pipes to the heater matrix. The upper pipe has sealed twice on assembly, but the lower joint - should have been easier -has failed twice. I cannot get genuine Vx washers without buying a Vx kit, for £250. I am tempted to use a silicone sealant, but am worried if it still leaked I would struggle to dismantle it again. Please advise.

[Doctor Gollum]

I would caution against bodging it back together. If it leaks and needs pulling apart again then you will run into issues getting all the sealant out of the way in order to refit everything.

Have you looked at your spares Astra for the seals on that?

[terry paget]

Removing washers from Astra looks like  big job. I tried some Blue RTV silicone gasket maker last night, but that failed to seal. I also have some Loctite SI5980 black silicone I could try, and some Loctite SI5990 copper silicone. though neither seems ideal for this job. Please advise.
At least I have got it part again.

[Doctor Gollum]

A bit of effort, or bite the bullet and buy the factory parts...

Not sure what else to suggest, as obviously bodging it will never work

[Nick W]

Removing washers from Astra looks like  big job. I tried some Blue RTV silicone gasket maker last night, but that failed to seal. I also have some Loctite SI5980 black silicone I could try, and some Loctite SI5990 copper silicone. though neither seems ideal for this job. Please advise.
At least I have got it part again.

It's only a cooling system: use whatever seals you can find that allow you to get the retaining clamp in place. Use a generous amount of ordinary clear silicone sealant on the seals, pipes, clamping surfaces etc. Ensure that whatever oozes out on assembly is wiped into the entire joint.


This will look terrible, which doesn't matter because  it's hidden behind the dash,

[terry paget]

Thank you gentlemen. I am surprised at the method of sealing used; the pic in reply #3 shows the pipes in the matrix, and the clips in reply#33 close around them with a washer between them. I received new washers and clips with my new matrix, cost me £32. The Vx kit costs £250; I suspect it is no simpler to install.
I shall persevere.

[Doctor Gollum]

Thank you gentlemen. I am surprised at the method of sealing used; the pic in reply #3 shows the pipes in the matrix, and the clips in reply#33 close around them with a washer between them. I received new washers and clips with my new matrix, cost me £32. The Vx kit costs £250; I suspect it is no simpler to install.
I shall persevere.

At least you now know why it was only £32...

Try this...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-VECTRA-C-SIGNUM-HEATER-MATRIX-SEALS-02-08-HEATER-CORE/153273799705?fits=Car+Make%3AVauxhall%7CModel%3AVectra&hash=item23afd49419:g:lzwAAOSwLSZb993n 

[Nick W]

Having suggested lubricant sometime ago, I found what I normally use for tight fitting rubber hoses, grips, O-rings etc.
That is basic silicone spray like THIS. That's not the one I have, that I acquired from stores 20 years ago,, which shows how little is needed. It has the advantage over silicone sealant(or any of the other similar gunges) of not adding any extra bulky material to the joint, which might help here.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Having consulted a man in the know, he advises:

The seals are a top hat type affair, lubricate the metal tubes and insides (only) of the seals with silicon lube and place the seals into the opening on the matrix, then insert the tube carefully into the matrix (where the seals are seated).

Apparently, if you fit the seals to the tube first, then the top hat section does not go fully home into the matrix and the clip wont go on.

Lost of lube on the metal tube is key

[terry paget]

Having consulted a man in the know, he advises:

The seals are a top hat type affair, lubricate the metal tubes and insides (only) of the seals with silicon lube and place the seals into the opening on the matrix, then insert the tube carefully into the matrix (where the seals are seated).

Apparently, if you fit the seals to the tube first, then the top hat section does not go fully home into the matrix and the clip wont go on.

Lost of lube on the metal tube is key

Thanks for that tip from a man who knows. It makes sense. In reply #20, 13 days ago, I tried gluing the washers into the matrix, trouble then was getting the pipes into the washers. Trouble today has been the washers falling out of the matrix as I insert the matrix, or as I insert the pipes into the washers. Trouble now is the washers are stretched and deformed, so misbehave.