Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega Electrical and Audio Help => Topic started by: cam.in.head on 05 December 2020, 18:10:56
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hi to all. my omega 2.6cdx 2003 has just begun acting wierd!
car drives fine,no warning lights,all seems fine except :
noticed yesterday that "lights on " warning buzzer was sounding albeit much quieter with key in but stops when ignition on or with key removed.also sounding with no key in if i put parking lights on ( again quieter thou)
today after further investigation found out that the interior light is staying on once you open the door or operate it from the light switch and wont go out unless you turn ignition on.
all is fine with engine running,map lights work ok and interior light will turn on and off with light switch if needed.
interior light still wont go off if warning buzzer is unplugged
warning buzzer still sounds quieter if interior light is unplugged.
warning buzzer works as normal if key is left in and door is opened and also if you leave lights on and open door.as it should.
car will lock and unlock with fob as normal but no red light on facia ( side of radio) and no deadlocking happenning.
all door lights are working normally and each door switch has been removed and checked .all double contact type with circuit to earth when released and clear to earth and each other when pressed.
removed fuse 12 marked as courtesy light and the other marked as courtesy light 23 i think ( as in manual)but courtesy light stays on even with fuses out.
has anyone any other likely suspects ?
thankyou
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Moisture in the light switch...
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just removed the light switch . plugged interior light back in . comes on when you open the door .stays on !
buzzer still sounding quietly !
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is the delay function in the interior light or elsewhere ?
still no deadlocking either !
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OK, it won't lock if one of the front doors is open... this is done via the contact switch iirc... which might also have a bearing on the interior lights/buzzer.
Did the buzzer stop with the light switch removed?
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Had very similar on my daily car, the drivers door switch had water ingress, dried it off and all ok. A quick temp fix is to swap the passenger door switch over while you are drying off the drivers switch.
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hi .drivers door switch nice and dry and tests electrically fine. even if the switch is unplugged buzzer still sounding !
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I had very similar, albeit not on an Omega, but a VW Golf Mk4. Traced the cause to the actual ignition lock / barrel. When the ignition key was turned to the 'off' position, enough to release the key for removal, the final 'click' from the barrel as the key was taken from the lock couldn't be heard.
A squirt or two of switch cleaner followed by the minutest squirt of lube similar to WD40 did the trick.
Hard to explain clearly, but the last 'click' you normally hear when phyiscally removing the key out of the barrel couldn't be heard, as if it was sensing the key was still in the barrel. After the bit of a clean and the minimal of lubrication, all was back to normal.
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I had very similar, albeit not on an Omega, but a VW Golf Mk4. Traced the cause to the actual ignition lock / barrel. When the ignition key was turned to the 'off' position, enough to release the key for removal, the final 'click' from the barrel as the key was taken from the lock couldn't be heard.
A squirt or two of switch cleaner followed by the minutest squirt of lube similar to WD40 did the trick.
Hard to explain clearly, but the last 'click' you normally hear when phyiscally removing the key out of the barrel couldn't be heard, as if it was sensing the key was still in the barrel. After the bit of a clean and the minimal of lubrication, all was back to normal.
Good info here :)
I've had the same issue with many vauxhall ignition barrels and now use a 3in1 type spray oil via a straw to lightly lube the mechanism
when sticking it can leave the radio or other electrical systems on etc
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will check the ignition barell is working correctly tommorow. many thanks for all your help so far
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I must stress that any lubrication must be very very minimal and certainly must not 'flood' the barrel or tumblers. On the Golf, I recollect there was a small hole in the surround of the barrel visible above the key aperture - big enough for the straw of the WD40 to access, but do not over lubricate it as it may cause problems with the tumblers.
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http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90600.msg1155501#msg1155501
If lock requires recon.
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hi.
front door switches removed and checked again. swapped side to side .no change.
one thing that did pop into my mind thou.when i first noticed the buzzer noise( friday after work) i got out of the car and locked it .interior light had gone out .
the interior light now staying on seems to have happenned after yesterday morning when i removed each door switch to check them. i didnt disconnect the battery to do this as i didnt think it at the time but once i remove any of the switches from the door im effectively removing the earth at that point and joining the two wires together! .could this have caused the interior light problem or alarm / deadlock issue ? .
deadlock always worked up to this point as far as i know .
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ignition barrel all seems to be working fine. key turns nicely ,all operates as it used to and when you remove the key the barrel jumps forward with a nice click turning off the radio
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Gixer had the same issue, cant remember the cause. I think it might have been the light switch. Lemme contact him, see if he remembers.
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Time to dig out the multimeter then :-\
Battery - fuse box ontop of battery - fuse box in the car... and look for the excess current once the car is switched off.
Standing current should be around 0.2 - 0.3 amps, so anything that hasn't quite turned off should stand out.
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Gixer had the same issue, cant remember the cause. I think it might have been the light switch. Lemme contact him, see if he remembers.
hi. light switch is sat on my kitchen table ! interior light still on !.
i assume the dalay for this is built into the actual light ?
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Time to dig out the multimeter then :-\
Battery - fuse box ontop of battery - fuse box in the car... and look for the excess current once the car is switched off.
Standing current should be around 0.2 - 0.3 amps, so anything that hasn't quite turned off should stand out.
morning doc. i am going to check this all this morning. will disconnect battery first then check the big main fuses and then all the ones in the car.
will check current draw
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Gixer had the same issue, cant remember the cause. I think it might have been the light switch. Lemme contact him, see if he remembers.
hi. light switch is sat on my kitchen table ! interior light still on !.
i assume the dalay for this is built into the actual light ?
Interior light delay is in the alarm unit IIRC. Lemme check schems
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F12 provides +ve feed, alarm (or central locking on poor mans models) switches the -ve side.
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Does the buzzer stop if yo pull FV6 (80a)?
If so, remove the indicator stalk.
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with fuse 12 out interior light still on but radio goes off !
couldnt find an interior fuse to kill interior light. will check suggestions .
thankyou all .
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FV6 is the one nearest the wing above the battery. One of the two feeds into the cabin... Think the radio is on FV5 fwiw ;)
Following the excess current through the fuseboxes should lead you to the faulty component ;)
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if i pull the one nearest nothing happens.buzzer still sounds.
if i pull the second fuse buzzer goes to normal tone as when you leave lights on.
stops if you pull fuse 3.
will have to do current test after tommorow as my meter that has that feature is at work.
also notice that buzzer gets louder if you operate brightness control !
either way interior light stays on when car is left even for 20 mins well after consumer relay goes off.
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It's also getting one step worse each day.
Now interior light won't go off unless engine is running and sidelights are on !
Yesterday it would turn off with engine running only.could we be talking water in alarm unit ?
Where is the alarm unit situated? Is it a separate unit
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FV6 is the one nearest the wing above the battery. One of the two feeds into the cabin... Think the radio is on FV5 fwiw ;)
Following the excess current through the fuseboxes should lead you to the faulty component ;)
Hi doc. What's the thinking here. If something is still drawing power the interior light will remain on ?
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Yup :y
My gut is the light switch is the problem although TB raised a good point re the indicator stalk because if you leave it one side or the other when off, it puts the relevant side lights on...
Either faulty switches or a wiring issue.
The alarm unit is on the drivers door pillar with the autobox ecu.
Any moisture or a bad ground could cause issues.
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im pretty sure its not the light switch because even with it removed the interior light stays on .
not removed indicator stalk yet .it works the indicators as it should and works the parking lights correctly too and works the flash and dip/ main beam correctly.cruise also ok.what usually fails ?
tommorow i will check the alarm/cl ecu for any signs of water. and any wiring /earths etc in that area.
im confused about the central locking thou.i used to be able to get out of the car and close the door.interior light still on and be able to central lock and deadlock .
what is the condition it looks for before deadlocking besides knowing you have opened and closed the drivers door?
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It's not that clever. Deadlocking is the second push of the remote button. What happens if you lock it with the key? :-\
The front interior lights are controlled by three things... The door switch, unlocking and the light switch (pull it out to turn the light on).
The rear lights and boot light are either switched at the light or by opening the relevant door/boot panel.
By tracing through the wiring systematically from the batter will direct you to the affected component(s).
The lightswitch is firm favourite because ALL the lighting wiring runs through it and the eventually cook. However, there is clearly something else going on.
As an aside, the 'buzzer' might be the powersounder starting to keel over.
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il have a closer look tommorow after work.
the door switch itself definately works ok and has been swapped for the also tested passenger side one so that eliminates that.
the light switch was physically in my hand so that eliminates that.( terminal 30 on its socket has a zero resistance to earth so thats ok and 31a which closes when switch pulled has a circuit to the buzzer and the roof light.)
theoretically. if the light switch,buzzer and roof light were disconnected / removed should the entral locking work ok including deadlocking ? or does it need to see the sensors in the roof light.i assume they are the interior alarm sensors .?
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thanks to all for help so far . much appreciated.
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hi to all. now im extremely confused. went to work in other car today leaving omega at home .
came home tonight. no alarm light flashing in omega as expected because alarm wouldnt come on. unlocked car got in and was about to start checking things.plugged interior light back in and after a few seconds it faded away and turned off like it should ! what the hell !!
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tried it a few times and it comes on and goes off like it should every time. sat in car pressed fob to lock it and it locked but this time the alarm led was back to life again and deadlocking now working !.
plugged warning buzzer back in and that is still making noises when it shouldnt !.
but everything otherwise is working as normal.
so i checked for water in scuttle by pollen filter.all ok.
removed passenger side panel and lifted carpet.all bone dry.
removed drivers side panel and lifted carpet.all bone dry.
earth leads attached,clean and tight.
only thing i havnt checked yet is inside c/l ecu plug for any signs of water but all looks perfect around it .
so was it damp somewhere,is there a bad connection somewhere, i hate intermittent faults like this . will try my buzzer with by brothers to see if my buzzer is faulty / vise versa !
the buzzer makes it noise ( different,quieter) with key in any position other than out or ignition and the buzzer also sounds if you put the parking lights on which it never did before.
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You should get the lights on chimes for the parking lights, but only when the door is open, ie same if thee lights switch is on...
How does it behave if you lock/unlock it with the key?
To deadlock it with the key you turn to lock and hold for a second or two as per the manual. Unlocking should simply be a matter of turning the key to unlock ;)
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if i unlock it with the key it opens and the alarm goes off .alarm stops with key in ignition.
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if i unlock it with the key it opens and the alarm goes off .alarm stops with key in ignition.
That's normal.
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if i unlock it with the key it opens and the alarm goes off .alarm stops with key in ignition.
That's normal.
hi nick.yes i assumed that was normal.just trying what doc told me to try. dont you just hate it when things start working without actually finding the fault !
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obviously ive disturbed something somewhere or something was damp and has dried a bit but it would be nice to pinpoint it.
i will re do the footwell earths tommorow and also have a look inside the door connector plugs if only for peace of mind .and if i have time il remove the c/l ecu plug too.
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The OOF Pixies have been around and fixed it while you were at work. :y ;D
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The OOF Pixies have been around and fixed it while you were at work. :y ;D
The giveaway is oily rust where they parked ;D
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glad they have ! just wish theyd given me an itemised report !
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if i unlock it with the key it opens and the alarm goes off .alarm stops with key in ignition.
That's normal.
Only normal if you unlock with the key having first locked it with the remote.
Unlock it with the remote and re lock it with the key. Unlock it afterwards with the key and the alarm should NOT go off ;)
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yes that all seems fine if i unlock it with fob.i can then lock it with key and unlock it without alarm going off.( alarm didnt set either/no flashing light led) so all seems well there.
maybee thr buzzer is faulty. i can try it in my brothers when we come out of tier 3 .
still would lime to have found what actually wasnt right yesterday thou !
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The OOF Pixies have been around and fixed it while you were at work. :y ;D
The giveaway is oily rust where they parked ;D
Oi! That's my job ;D
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im trying to work out what would allow the car to lock but not operate the alarm ?
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To set the alarm with the key, you have to hold it to the lock position for a moment... It's in the handbook ;)
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has it had the A pillar check strap welded in the past ? there's a loom can be damaged IIRC :-\
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hi dave. no not been welded there. i have the footwell trim off and everything is nice and clean and dry behind there. just need to check c/l ecu plug and then redoo earths just to be sure whilst in that corner. same at other side .was hoping to find water somewhere but no signs yet !
its been fine for 5 years and apart from the warning buzzer is all find again now !
but as we know ,theyre the worst kind of issues .when you dont actually find a definate failure point !
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does anyone have the pinout / terminal designations for the warning buzzer please .gives me something else to check . thanks
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back to square one ! awoken at three this morning with alarm going off . interior light back on again . had gone off by 7. came out opened car light came on and stayed on again ! gonna trace back tonifght from light connector
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Start the other end and gradually narrow the search rather than diving head first straight down the first rabbit hole ;)
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ok . thanks
my thinking there was just that checking if the interior light was being commanded on from the c/l ecu on the black/grey wire or wether that wire was shorted to earth somewhere. i read somewhere that the catera has had an issue with a wire shorting in the roof area .
so whats your suggestion . start again at the battery looking for any excess current draw and work inwards
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Exactly :y
There's at least three ways to switch the light on, for example, so you could easily over look something if you start at the light.
I suspect that you'll quickly rule out FV5 and FV6, as they feed the interior. The power sounder may also be the cause if it is still present, but see what the wiring shows. ;)
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ok thanks. will check for current drain tonght and then see what that shows . car may very well have mended itself again by then like it did last night !
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The power sounder may also be the cause if it is still present
Strange goings on indeed - seems no logic. Can you (OP) confirm if powersounder is still fitted?
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should be . it was replaced when i got car but can test what happens with it unplugged anyway
we did have a coating of snow on the day it started happening so could be wet down there .
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nothing else to report yet. pissing it down at the moment so thats tonight gone !
quick check now.locks and unlocks fine with fob or key (neither puts alarm on)
interior light stays on if replaced.
everything else working fine,engine,lights radio etc.
will not get chance now until friday.hope its a better day .
cheers
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hi. right today ive removed the battery for easier access.removed ,cleaned refitted earth leads under battery( nothing found wrong there thou).
disconnected the 3 large circular connectors to check for and water or green connectors! .nothing appears wrong there.
removed and refitted the earth connections down in each footwell.
disconnected to check the passenger side multi plugs in footwell.
rechecked each door pin switch. dry inside rubber and no shorts at 20m ohm.all connecting to earth ok.
interior light is going out properly today like it did the other day and car can be locked and deadlocked ( like the other day) but warning buzzer is still sounding ( strangled noise!) like before.if key is in ignition or parking lights are on.
so current drain test on battery.
with doors open (puddle lights on and interior light) current draw is 1.63 amp.
when doors closed this drops to 0.96 amp ( so far so good)
but once interior light fades we are still drawing 250 ma which is too much.so tommorow i will bring the meter into the car on some long leads and start pulling fuses.
i do know that if you pull fv6 it doesnt drop ( it goes up when you put fv6 back in but thats the cd player initialising the discs then it drops back to 250ma.
if i pull fv5 the current draws drops to zero.
hopefully something will show .
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one thing i will do first is just leave it connected and reading 250ma for a while and give it chance to settle . ( il do that now )
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THESE (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Automotive-Current-Tester-Circuit-Meter-Standard-ATO-ATC-Blade-Fuse-Car-Vehicle/400433639239?hash=item5d3bb46f47:g:AocAAOSwS~FaXd5V) are very handy for this sort of job; you plug it in instead of the fuse.
You can buy leads for your multi-meter that do the same, but they're barely any cheaper
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FV5 supplies...
Direct, unfused:
Immobiliser
Alarm
Indirect, fused:
F1/F35 windows
F6 Bose if fitted
F7 consumer relay
F20 Door contacts, central locking, seat heating, sunscreen
F25 sunroof
F27 self levelling if fitted, accesory socket
F6 and F27 will possibly have plugs for both, so if a fuse is installed and the plugs are corroded then you may get a current drain of sorts... Bose plug will be behind the driver kick panel and the rear suspension shouldn't be an issue as there won't be a relay for it.
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thanks nick ,that looks pretty usefull.
right. after half an hour its dropped to 20ma. however i opened the door,interior light came on and took 1 minute to go off. now its working again back to around 10 seconds.
this is getting confusing. !
thats it for today. tommorow i will unplug the c/l unit and see what happens
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what i will do first is plug camera into the cig socket and observe the current again. i will check if the drop is after the consumer relay times out but i thought it was sooner than nearly an hour !
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That could be your problem then. Not sure how the consumer relay works, but it should be around ten minutes...
Re the camera, which socket do you use for it?
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the camera is plugged into the rear outlet at the moment. used to switch off after around 10- 15 mins.
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the camera is plugged into the rear outlet at the moment. used to switch off after around 10- 15 mins.
That's what I thought. The front socket is NOT fed via FV5... The rear one is fed from FV5 via the consumer relay.
If that's no longer shutting off within 15 minutes then that won't help.
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camera is not plugged in at night so that wasnt the issue with the other night or with the interior light but i will do as you say and check tommorow if it does switch off after the time it should.
thankyou
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gotya !
started at the lights buzzer and with the markings on it worked out that the blue wire in terminal 31b was the one to follow.it was low to earth .
followed it across to the passenger side where it plugs into the multi plug and then it terminates and splits into 4 other wires. i snipped them all and found the single offending wire.reconnected the remaining ones back up and voila ,no buzzer when there shouldnt be and interior light working as it should and deadlocking working.
the offending ( disconnected)blue wire comes all the way back across to the drivers side door connector plug.removed plug and found traces of water inside. cleaned out and the earth fault on that wire is gone.
am going to leave it disconnected for now as everything seems to be working fine so it could be a return from the microswitch and check its still clear to earth in a few days.
only fault now is airbag light because i foolishly turned on the ignition with the big passenger side multi plugs disconnected. just going to get it reset at garage later .
thanks for eveyones suggestions and help.
got there in the end. and all made perfect sense realy.
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Wiring is such fun... :D
Pays to be thorough, and patient :y
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it made sense to be damp as it happened on our first snow day last thurs.
the door connectors arnt the easiest to remove and refit thou !
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Not with the door and dash fitted they're not ;D
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gotya !
started at the lights buzzer and with the markings on it worked out that the blue wire in terminal 31b was the one to follow.it was low to earth .
followed it across to the passenger side where it plugs into the multi plug and then it terminates and splits into 4 other wires. i snipped them all and found the single offending wire.reconnected the remaining ones back up and voila ,no buzzer when there shouldnt be and interior light working as it should and deadlocking working.
the offending ( disconnected)blue wire comes all the way back across to the drivers side door connector plug.removed plug and found traces of water inside. cleaned out and the earth fault on that wire is gone.
am going to leave it disconnected for now as everything seems to be working fine so it could be a return from the microswitch and check its still clear to earth in a few days.
only fault now is airbag light because i foolishly turned on the ignition with the big passenger side multi plugs disconnected. just going to get it reset at garage later .
thanks for eveyones suggestions and help.
got there in the end. and all made perfect sense realy.
Well done, young man :y
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thankyou although not many would say young any more !
just curious now what the blue wire does( or did) and wether it makes not much difference ?
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thankyou although not many would say young any more !
just curious now what the blue wire does( or did) and wether it makes not much difference ?
Apparently, it connects Pin2 of the drivers door contact switch to the consumer relay (via Pin 62 of the big plug on the passenger a post), the warning buzzer, electric windows and the central locking...
It starts at the driver door contact Pin2... To...
1a. Consumer relay via X1Pin62
1b...
2a. Central locking/alarm ecu Pin15
2b. Driver window switch Pin21, via X11Pin29(door plug)
2c. Seat/mirror memory ecu Pin7 X46, via Pin5 X50 (seat harness)
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hi thanks doc.yep il agree with that.i found that blue wire in those locations and all joined together in the loom just above the passenger side big connector.
that was the wire that was triggering the alarm,bringing on the interior light and making the buzzer do strange things.
il leave it disconnected for now cos i havnt found anything that doesnt seem to work yet. !
what i may do at the weekend is have a look inside the door and see where it goes and if its wet !
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You might have got lucky and cut the wire between the seat memory ecu and window(mirror) switch ;)