Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: amba on 04 May 2021, 08:33:21
-
Hi Guys.
Need some advise on best way forward with this please.
During the night my neighbours wall has collapsed in the wind and has come crashing down onto my car.Looking at the extent of the damage...roof/bonnet/rear wind /both passenger side doors it looks like its beyond repair.
Spoke to her first thing this morning and told her she needs to speak to her insurance company to let them know what has happened,as she is quite a reasonable person.
Question is do I let me insurance company know ?
Car is damaged through no fault of mine so do I tell my car insurance company ?
Do I tell my household insurance company ??
Or do I wait for her to let me know .
At present I am unable to go to prebooked jobs today so have that financial loss too.
Guidance on correct path of action appreciated.
-
It may be that her insurer decides there's no need for a pay out. If an act of god (very strong winds) means that a perfectly sound wall falls down.
They'll pay to rebuild her wall though.
I might be wrong. You'll have to prove that she ignored warnings about the state of the wall. Probably. Start the day cynical. That me.
-
So repairs to wall aside what would be the position with my car ?
Do I claim off her for the inevitable write-off...or should I contact my car insurance company and let them know ??
-
Also who and how do I go about getting the tonnes of rubble cleared from my driveway and removed
-
Its her wall, she is liable regardless of whether or not her insurance company pays out.
I think, technically your supposed to inform your car insurance company of any incidents or claims, but in your circumstances I wouldnt.
It may well be used as an excuse to up your premiums and you will have to give details every time you take out insurance in the next five years.
Very sorry to hear about the car btw. I now youve put a lot of time, effort and money into it. Must be heartbreaking for something like this to happen to it. :(
I think I would get prices for good used replacement panels, price to replace rear window, and to repair the roof. Then inform your neighbour she owes you that amount.
If she wont pay, might it be possible to claim the amount from your own house insurance ? :-\
-
Her wall, her insurance... Do not tell your insurance company as they will class it as an incidental,and this increases your risk..
Basically your claiming of her, and you will need to fight for every penny,and insist the car is returned to is pre-accident state,and don't let them remove the car until they have agreed to repair it.
-
It's simple, you seek the indemnity her insurance provides, that is to put your vehicle in the condition it was in before the incident, stick to your guns with this.
-
As above. Take loads of photos before anything is cleared up.
-
Cheers guys for good advise.
Yes Albs Im gutted and feel really upset..only put 2 brand new front tyres on Friday at £240 with alignment.
Its quite a mess and expect repairs will be several K if it can be fixed.Back rear door roof pillar has a piece of concrete capping resting on it so fully expect that to be buckled..front passenger wing and bonnet dented and both passenger side door well scuffed ,let along the 2ft piece of roof caping that has gone through the passenger front glass and is buried into the leather seat.Gutted isnt the word I am using at present.
So should I wait for her to let me know what her insurance company are doing.... and not inform either my own house or car insurers.
Need the driveway clear though as looks like a rubble yard.....and cant go to work either
-
My neighbour has just come around with his insurance details and has said he has spoken to them and they will be sending an assessor out during the day.
He has said his insurance company..British Gas ...have said that I need to contact my car insurance company and claim through them ?...does this seem correct or are they passing the buck
-
Thats one hell of a piece of bad luck :(
iirc TB's neighbours all had to claim off their own insurance when his garage rained down on them
-
Seems abit of a mine field as who to contact and who to claim from.....dont want to "pull the trigger" with either of my insurance companies yet so need to gather as much advise as possible first...will see what the assessor from their insurance company says first though......trouble is Im loosing money not working too and need transport to work so real fek..in mess
-
That's bad news.
As an insurance claim, the car is an instant write off even if they accept it was worth top market value. That's simply down to the cost of repair, no assessor needed.
You do need an assessor to visit ASAP so you can speak to him about the claim and how to proceed. The most important part is to know they'll cover the cost of getting you back to work now that you're denied an essential tool(which is all a car is), and to get that underway. After all, you could rent a car now and cover your afternoon appointments, but that won't be cheap. Lost earnings are also part of that, as is clearing the wreckage off your drive.
I would hold off contacting your insurers until you know how the neighbours are going to proceed, even though you will probably have to.
Once the claim is underway, as a last resort it sounds like you could put the car back into use with a new window
-
I'm so sorry to hear that. Of all the challenges of keeping an older car on the road!!
Firstly, I wouldn't mention it to your car insurance at the moment, either. If all else goes to shit, that might be your last option.
Following an incident many years ago, below is the legal advice I was given.
Home insurance usually has a Public liability element. (Ridge tile falling through next doors conservatory roof etc, walls collapsing, er ahem)
The most important thing is to establish your neighbours liability. Make a case that it is her wall. Look at your deeds that indicate which fences/walls are maintained by whom. Even better if she has had this wall built herself. (We don't know if this wall is a garden wall, part of her house etc.)
Once it is as clear as it can be that the wall is hers, put it in writing to her that you consider her (personally) liable for the damage to your vehicle and the clearance of the site. Tell her you are preparing quotes for the repair of the car. A good idea to start the ball rolling on that right away.
Go for her throat and make it sound scary. Put the evidence that it is her wall and her responsibility in the letter. I know you consider your neighbour reasonable and that is great, but she will not be making the decision on whether or how much to pay. The people who will eat polite guys for lunch. If it was me, when I hand her the letter, (addressed to her) I would apologise for the tone and simply say, I don't know who your insurance company is, so this comes to you in the first instance. (It is so easy to forget that despite insurance and the idea that direct line etc will sort it out, it is us that are liable. If she is not insured, your can sue her for the damages.(Hopefully it won't come to that.)
What is likely to happen is she will speak to her insurance company and they will then communicate with you. Then the negotiation begins.
As has been said above, take lots of pictures of the car in a damaged state and sort out some ones of it looking at its best. Gather together copies of work done, monies spent etc.
Because this is a public liability claim, I'm not sure if the concept of an item being "written off" is in play. I know for Car insurance it is, but stop to think about it that is a pretty disgusting concept.
I think I would be taking the tack that it is a modern Classic car that is not easy to replace and should be returned to its previous condition.
Finally, this is a stressful process and sounds like it is effecting your ability to work. Not surprising perhaps that some people decide to let it run its course, then take the cash settlement. That is your call.
Good luck.
-
Do you have rental car option on your car insurance? If so that's an option that'll get you mobile again. ???
What about legal assistance on either your car or house insurance? If so that might be worth calling on to help you through the minefield.
I was offered free legal cover on a motorbike insurance policy years ago which I took, and it was invaluable when I had a non fault accident that year. The firm of solicitors certainly knew their stuff and sorted out the other parties insurance co when they tried to avoid paying me.
-
Hi,
Just having read the other posts while i've been writing mine
I wouldn't contact your insurance.
Your neighbours insurance company are most definitely passing the buck.
They are liable and they are trained to evade and pass it elsewhere wherever they can. This is the opening gambit and I reckon most folks do exactly what they are told.
I'd still send the letter to your neighbour. You are ideally looking to start a discussion direct with her insurance company. If you send her/him the letter, they will be arguing for that too.
What about injury lawyers for you, or similar. I'm sure they'd be licking their lips?
-
Cheers again Guys.
Yes with a good clean up of the broken glass...new passenger door glass and back passenger side quarter glass car looks like it should be driveable if abit tatty .
I have legal cover on both my house and car insurance so if need be can go that route ,but think I will avoid involving either of my insurance companies until I have spoken to the assessor from their company .
Will see how he intends putting me back into the position I was before that accident ,as that is in my mind the purpose of insurance ,and we can go from there.I have written off todays work now as my work doesnt have an on/off tap as booked by appointments which I have already moved to next week.
Im happy to proceed with a hire car ,as long as there insurance are footing the bill for it ,otherwise they can cover my loss of average earnings per day .
Not quite sure why I would involve my car insurers at this stage .
Appreciate your words of advise TG on letters etc ,but will keep things civil until assessor has advised how they intend dealing with it first.....watch this space.
-
DO NOT claim for your own car insurance. That just lets your neighbour and their insurance company off the hook.
-
Use the word indemnity when speaking to the other parties assessor, I was being messed about with a claim about 10 years ago, I spoke with a colleague who previously worked in the insurance industry who advised me what exactly to say to them, their attitude completely changed and my claim was settled satisfactorily, sounds silly I know but it worked for me.
-
Buy it back and keep using it. The damage will be entirely cosmetic unless it has actually crushed the car.
Also remove the debris piece by piece starting from the top.
-
I would be kicking back heavily against any act of god claims.
A well constructed and maintained wall would not fall over in any wind let alone what we have had in the last 24 hours.............if they do take that stance they need to evidence the other local structures that were similarly impacted
-
It's definitely your neighbours wall? It's not a party wall?
-
We had some pretty hefty gusts through here last night... Here being Sussex Downs. :-\
-
No its neighbours wall and it continues along the side of their property also.It was around 2.0mtrs high and has been standing for the past 40+years albeit in recent years when talking to them they have commented that it was leaning abit so imagine the gusts here have caught it just right and send it beyond the point on "no return".
Nick W kindly called past earlier and has assessed things with a more critical eye than mine.
Whilst all panels from back to front on the NS have scuffs/dents etc they appear to be ok with the exception of quite a large dent in the front wing.
Have worked out that with front passenger glass/back passenger side fixed quarter light glass/passenger side door mirror complete ,car would then be usable albit it a tad scruffy.
Further parts ideally would be both NS doors assuming colour match Z20R is possible/front NS wing ideally in Z20R but less critical as can be painted and both rear wing clear light clusters .
The remaining body work marks would then need filling/pulling and entire side of car painting.
That would be my plan assuming a realistic settlement figure is achieved from their insurance company who have now advised my neighbour they will not be out until tomorrow .I intend writing a letter this afternoon which I will advise them I have now lost the use of my work transport today and due to the driveway and debris inside my car not likely to be cleared away at the earliest until tomorrow I intend also claiming for 2 days minimum loss revenue being self employed.
A wanted add will be posted shortly for the parts required to get the car road worthy and will take things from there.
-
We had some pretty hefty gusts through here last night... Here being Sussex Downs. :-\
Had a few gust thumps here in BSE last night. I'm surprised that my tightarsed neighbours fence is still intact. ;D
-
DO NOT claim for your own car insurance. That just lets your neighbour and their insurance company off the hook.
This ^^^^^^
It's not your accident, it's a property claim against your neighboor, for the brick wall which they insured and fell on your car. Or put it in reverse, if you had driven your car into the wall would they claim off their household policy?? I think not.. Ring your neighbors insurance company, don't talk to Tracy or Bob, speak to a Claims manager,, you are going to have to fight,..
-
Will go to bed tonight with a much clearer plan moving forward with this.
Intend making no further speculations until I have spoken to their insurance companies assessor tomorrow assuming he does visit.Once I see how they wish to resolve this I will then make a decision if it suits me or not and go from there.
Have nearly managed to source the bits required to atleast get car driveable/weatherproof and with all essential parts replaced so getting myself mobile again should be within a few days,so I can clearly demonstrate I am mitigating my losses which could start racking up quite quickly.
Fingers crossed common sense will prevail tomorrow .
-
Your neighbour's insurers know a policy will be in place to cover your car so that will be their first port of call when wriggling out of any responsibility. :(
They'll probably only be interested in talking to you if they think that would be a cheaper route than accepting the risk that your insurers might try to claim their costs from them.
It might be worth asking for a full and final settlement figure from their assessor to see what he says but be very clear that he will be hearing from your insurers if it's not forthcoming. Point out that a hire car and loss of earnings will be involved and that might encourage them to accept a generous settlement rather than get involved in wrangling over costs.
To be honest, given that loss of earnings is something you'll presumably be pursuing, if you have legal cover on your car / home insurance, now would be a good time to get them involved.
If you've got to fall back on your car insurance, do it as soon as you get the feeling that her insurers are fobbing you off. If you've sat on the claim for days and then phone them, it'll look suspicious.
-
Thanks Kevin.
Will see if their accessor turns up today and what he intends doing first.
Just 1 question though would i involve my home insurance company or my car insurers..assume the latter as the wall is property but hers...car is mine....just didnt want to start the inevitable course with car insurance of premium increase etc
-
Thought this was going to turn into a fiasco.
Neighbours assessor needs to check land registry to establish ownership of wall and also states that as windspeed was above 47mph it is classified as " Act Of God" and wouldnt be covered on either policy.
My building insurance have said similar and they will not even view as they need to establish wall ownership which is being dealt with anyway.
My car insurance company have also stated that as ownership cannot be establish and their policy of windspeed is above 37mpg again "Act Of God" and not covered .They have advised that they believe car is a total loss and have valued it at £820 using mileage and guide prices from market.Less my excess they are prepared to remove and dispose of my car and give me £420 back.
Just going outside now to shout/scream and start clearing a huge pile of bricks from my driveway as no other fec..er that I pay my insurance for is prepared to .Looks like 2nd hand parts required and will restore car to working order . >:(
-
I had an old stone wall collapse in a storm 2 or 3 years ago and phoned my insurance company more in hope than expectation. They told me I was covered as it was storm damage and told me to go ahead and get a quote to rebuild, which they quickly approved and promptly paid out when I presented the invoice. :y
I think you are being given the old brush off and should probably start thinking about legal advice either via your insurance's legal assistance or a firm of solicitors that specialises in insurance claims. :-\
-
Your neighbours insurance company should be their problem, not yours. The neighbour needs to reimburse you for repairs to your car, as their wall fell on it.
If their insurance company wont foot the bill, your neighbour should suffer the loss of £££, not you.
If they dont see it that way, they are are not nice people and should be treated suitably. :-X
-
Trouble we have is the issue of who,s wall it is ...until then I cant start showing my teeth as I,m just making noises at the wrong people .
Will look into the legal side of the insurance though .
-
I think ownership of the wall is first port of call, then get heavy with the neighbours insurers or them personally if its there wall, if its your wall another plan will need thinking out :-\
-
Right just so Im totally clear on land registry and who is responsible for what.
If I stand outside the front of my property Im responsible for the boundary/fence walls etc to the left of me .My neighbours whos house is stepped forward from mine is responsible for the boundary/wall/fence etc to my right
If they stood at their house facing the front door they are responsible for everything to the left ...or as above my right
-
Right just so Im totally clear on land registry and who is responsible for what.
If I stand outside the front of my property Im responsible for the boundary/fence walls etc to the left of me .My neighbours whos house is stepped forward from mine is responsible for the boundary/wall/fence etc to my right
If they stood at their house facing the front door they are responsible for everything to the left ...or as above my right
That might be your understanding, but has no basis in law I'm afraid. Frustrating as it is, you'll have let the relevant parties do their digging.
-
Surely the properties title deeds show the boundary and what you are responsible for by the "T" logo on the deeds
-
If you have your deeds to hand, then that should clarify matters some what ;)
-
Surely the properties title deeds show the boundary and what you are responsible for by the "T" logo on the deeds
Our house stands on a corner plot, main road to the front, side street to the side. The terrace continues on the other side of the side street. Once upon a time, we owned the land up to halfway across the side street, the other half was owned by the house opposite. This was no more than a track but, when houses were built at the top of the side street, the council needed permission to turn it into a proper street. Both owners at that time obviously did not want to be responsible for repairs to the pavement, roadway or furniture on that street, so signed ownership over to the council.
Now, the point. I'm not exactly sure when this happened, but our deeds show that we still own halfway across the street. Deeds can be out of date and can be challenged by interested parties. Sorry.
-
Yes Title deeds to hand which clearly show the "T" to the left front of our property running through the front of the house and then continuing out the back to the end of the garden.Then turns right and runs along the back which is the boundary to a school as we have 1 behind us
-
Yes Title deeds to hand which clearly show the "T" to the left front of our property running through the front of the house and then continuing out the back to the end of the garden.Then turns right and runs along the back which is the boundary to a school as we have 1 behind us
What would be interesting is where the T on your neighbour's deeds is. That would conclusively prove which wall they are responsible for. If you're responsible for the wall on the opposite side, however, that speaks volumes.
I think it's probably a good time to get advice from your legal cover if you have it.
-
https://alwenajonesbright.co.uk/boundary-walls-know-your-rights/
-
Yes download your neighbours Land Registry Certificate and plan from the Land Registry site and then you'll know yourself exactly what's what. :y
I had a dispute with my neighbours over the fence a few years ago, and the lying cow told me that their other neighbour at the back forced them to pay for the fence between them and it wasn't her fence. I downloaded the 'deeds' and plan from the Land Registry and it clearly showed that that fence was hers. There were a couple of other little snippets in the 'deeds' that may come in useful one day so I didn't tell them that I had a copy of their 'deeds' as most people don't realise that they are in the public domain and still think that you have to go through solicitors for this kind of information. ;)
-
Interstingly my neighbours plans and mine conflict over fence ownership.
mine shows the fence as party, theres shows it as owned by me!
Either way we went halves on last replacement, but wierd little abnormality given they were built at the same time.
-
Well I ordered a copy of title deeds for my property last night.Email copy arrived this morning and all it shows is the entire boundary of all properties on our part of the road.No mention of any T for ownership just a ordanace survey drawing which is less than helpful as I now the plot shape we live on .
Have contacted HSBC Legal who we are insured with and awaiting a call back from a legal advisor so the saga continues.
Skip is due at lunchtime which I paid for so can atleast start clearing the mountain of debris away so will look less like a bomb site by this evening I hope.Have managed to source all the panels and parts to get car back to the right shape although colour of the NS will be different from the rest of the car,but once this eventually gets resolved will be pushing for a total respray along with the remaining body work damage to the bonnet/boot lid and both bumpers so imagine that wont be a small cost.
Another day from work so the claim is mounting !!!
-
Overview
If you live in England or Wales, there’s usually no record of:
the exact boundary between two properties
who owns the hedge, wall, tree or fence between 2 properties
Just pulled off HM Gov website which makes the point of seeing title deeds etc almost pointless...this is a mine field :(
-
For six quid download your neighbours Land Registry cert and plan as well. It might have different info.
I have a facelift front bumper here in good condition if it's useful to you Amba. :)
-
Cheers TIG.
Front bumper is ok apart from large scrap on NS corner,which will come out when painted but thanks alot for kind offer.
Not sure if the £6 investment will tell me much more than I got yesterday as it only outlines property and boundary as a plan..not any mention of ownership or any liability of ownership on boundary
-
Really sorry about your situation :(
By getting a skip and removing the " mountain of debris " could be seen as admitting it belongs to YOU :o
boundary disputes are a nightmare .
reclaimed bricks can cost over £1 each depending on what they are ,are you about to skip them :-\
if NOT then that begs the question where do you stack them , on your land or next door or 50 50 :-\
I advise you don't get a hire car and do return to work ASAP because it could take months or even years to resolve with no guarentee you will ever recover your losses or outlay :(
sorry but i don't have answers , just trying to give you M2PW from what i do know and what i've read so far on here ;)
-
Cheers Dave,
Cant live with all the stuff over our driveway so its got to go.Bricks are a std low cost yellow very soft and not too pretty so cant say Im too precious with them either.
Neighbours has shown me his original title deeds this afternoon and the join between my proprty and his has No T entries although the opposite side fence and the back does so he is quite rightly stating its not his responsibility .
Cant get a copy of my original paperwork from BS for few weeks as they store them off site vaulted so another wait on that.
HSBC my building insurers are playing hard ball and stating they will cover for storm damge but winds must be in excess of 57mph...according to their available information it was some 10mph lower at 37mph so they have stated their is no claim.
I,m drawing a line under this for the next few weeks as its starting to get draining...
Car will get parts fitted over the next few days allowing me to drive it albeit it will look pretty nasty Im sure..all old wall and associated crap is going in skip and will consider things further when I have the inclination too