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Author Topic: Rear Brakes  (Read 12573 times)

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johnnydog

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #45 on: 24 April 2020, 17:59:01 »

Hold them with small or long nose pliers .
push and turn  ;)

Doing it this way, they preferably need to be long nose lock pliers unless you don't mind spending hours looking for the cup washer after it's pinged off in some direction probably never to be seen again.....
I find depressing the cup washer gently with a small ring spanner and twisting the pin through the centre of the spanner, rather that twisting the cup washer works for me, but everyone has their own preferences.....
The cup washer is less likely to get lost if something slips as the needle nose pliers are holding the pin through the cup washer and spanner, and the washer has nowhere to go if it slips.
 
« Last Edit: 24 April 2020, 18:01:09 by johnnydog »
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Andy B

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gbh

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #47 on: 24 April 2020, 23:21:30 »

So I was going through the hub with pliers whilst trying to push spring back and locate it through hole almost impossible in itself but tomorrow is another day and we try again with possible new ideas including a sleeve to push through hub and a U shaped spanner off an angle grinder oh and a piece of angle iron with a hole in it.Why didn't they make it a lot easier I'd love to watch someone do it but all I can find is Yanks on Youtube and wrong cars.Bosch brake discs seem very reasonable any experience with them? And have been informed that Apec Kit 315 will fit with replacing pins and springs.Have also found uneven pad wear and one of the shims had moved inwards towards the hub almost touching
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gbh

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #48 on: 24 April 2020, 23:27:28 »

Thanks AndyB for the tool although again not sure how it works it regards to the turn seems another blind job
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #49 on: 25 April 2020, 00:01:08 »

The Apec fitting kit categorically won't fit.

Spend your money if you like, and measure it against my post in FAQs.

That kit is for Vectra Bs with vented discs... Thinner than the Omega ones, so you run the serious risk of the spring jamming the brakes off.

Re the tool, if you don't understand how it works, you probably need it ;)

Also the spring puller in the associated purchase suggestions looks pretty handy too  8)
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gbh

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #50 on: 25 April 2020, 00:22:59 »

Well thank you DG I got the information from an Omega owner of over 19 years so looks like he's been running a serious risk and I will inform him.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #51 on: 25 April 2020, 01:23:47 »

The two biggest mistakes people make with Omega rear brakes are:

1. Cheaping out and fitting solid discs with vented calipers. As the pads wear, the pistons pop out causing total braking loss.

2. Bodging the fitting kit and using non vented anti rattle springs. Being 8 mm narrower, these will fit between the pad backing plates when new pads are fitted. This prevents the pads from making contact with the disc, effectively locking out the rear brakes and preventing both the ABS and TC from working properly.

Both have happened to people here.
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Enceladus

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #52 on: 25 April 2020, 04:37:55 »

So I was going through the hub with pliers whilst trying to push spring back and locate it through hole almost impossible in itself but tomorrow is another day and we try again with possible new ideas including a sleeve to push through hub and a U shaped spanner off an angle grinder oh and a piece of angle iron with a hole in it. Why didn't they make it a lot easier I'd love to watch someone do it but all I can find is Yanks on Youtube and wrong cars. Bosch brake discs seem very reasonable any experience with them? And have been informed that Apec Kit 315 will fit with replacing pins and springs. Have also found uneven pad wear and one of the shims had moved inwards towards the hub almost touching
I concur, APEC KIT-315 has 74mm pins, according to APEC's own spec. You need 86mm pins. Likewise the cross springs aren't wide enough (at maybe 48mm?), you need a 56mm span. There are no aftermarket kits that are correct.

I'd be a bit alarmed about the wandering shim. Each of the factory pads and genuine GM replacements has a thin metal shim the same shape as the pad back-plate, including the pin slots. The retaining pins run through the slots in the shims. So the shim shouldn't have been able to migrate. Is the shim torn or was it incorrect assembly?

I don't have any special tool to install the cups on the handbrake shoe pins. Just a pointy nose pliers. Might be a three handed job though. Fingers at the inboard of the back-plate to hold the pins steady. Whilst the other two deal with the cup and spring. 

I suggest you study the ribbed adjuster cog that sits between the top of the brake shoes. Make a note of which way the adjuster needs to turn to spread the shoes apart. Check both sides and write it down. And in particular study how the ribs interact with (foul) the spring underneath and how the adjuster can snap back when turning downwards. All making it difficult to be certain that you have successfully rotated the adjuster as desired, especially once the disk is on and you can't see. IE How it's easier and more positive to rotate the adjuster upwards then it is to do so rotating downwards.

Spread the shoes a bit and offer up the disc. If the disc goes on then take it off and adjust further until the disc won't go on. Then back off the adjuster 1/2 turn and offer up the disc. Install the securing screw, caliper and pads and then perform any desired adjustment on the shoe adjuster. Which should only be a click or two and not whole rotations. A head torch is useful.
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terry paget

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #53 on: 25 April 2020, 09:56:48 »


It beggars belief that on the Opel assembly line operatives struggle as I still do to assemble the drum hand brake. I imagine boiler suited fraulein in hairnets, cigarettes in mouths, throwing drum handbrakes together as they chat to each other. They must have some special tool, some trick, that I lack.
I bought the tool above some years go, when running a 6 Senator high mileage fleet, but it was little help. That new tool might do it, it's cheap enough, but coming from China it will be some time arriving.
When I was young all vehicles had drum brakes, and they gave me no trouble. I imagined when I progressed from RWD Vauxhalls that I should not see a drum brake again, not so. I discover that some Astras and Vectras have them too.
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gbh

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #54 on: 25 April 2020, 10:21:38 »

Firstly thank you all for your comments,when I bought the car about 3 years ago it had only done 49000 and had the oil cooler blown.It came with a pile of old receipts for garage work done and so the pads must have been fitted wrong as there is no damage to the shim but glad at least to have found it and now I can put it right hopefully.Looks like I'll have to lash out £59 for VX but one wonders what will happen in the not to distant future for all our cars if these pins etc become even more unavailable?
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #55 on: 25 April 2020, 10:51:58 »

In the factory, the handbrake gubbins is built up before the hub flange is fitted. Probably takes two minutes a side to throw together  ;)
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johnnydog

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #56 on: 25 April 2020, 12:41:09 »

gbh - to save you pulling your hair out ;D, I have a set of the correct used vented pins and springs that I can spare if you want to pm me.
They are rusted but with care will clean up sufficiently to be quite serviceable. The springs are the parts that normally disintegrate but the pins will usually clean up with a rotary wire brush.
But they are here if you need them.
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terry paget

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #57 on: 25 April 2020, 14:41:57 »

In the factory, the handbrake gubbins is built up before the hub flange is fitted. Probably takes two minutes a side to throw together  ;)
Thanks, Doc, that explains that.
I guess the basic problem stems from the combined disc/drum arrangement. Other cars I have owned had self adjusting disc handbrakes, or big drums at the rear, incorporating both hydraulic and self adjusting mechanical operation. I have Astras of either variety.
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Enceladus

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #58 on: 25 April 2020, 19:05:00 »

There is a tool for the job  :y
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Drum-Brake-Spring-Washer-Tool-Mechanics-Removal-Tool-Brake-Shoe-Retaining-Washer/202662616835?hash=item2f2fa21f03:g:kZ4AAOSwouxcwsCn

.... never used one though  :-\
Aside from the slow boat from China, are you sure this tool is for this job? The drawing suggests the business end is 2.5cm in diameter, way too big to fit through the access hole in the hub.
« Last Edit: 25 April 2020, 19:11:13 by Enceladus »
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #59 on: 25 April 2020, 19:21:12 »

There is a tool for the job  :y
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Drum-Brake-Spring-Washer-Tool-Mechanics-Removal-Tool-Brake-Shoe-Retaining-Washer/202662616835?hash=item2f2fa21f03:g:kZ4AAOSwouxcwsCn

.... never used one though  :-\
Aside from the slow boat from China, are you sure this tool is for this job? The drawing suggests the business end is 2.5cm in diameter, way too big to fit through the access hole in the hub.
Consider it a starter for ten...  ::)

Trouble nowadays is people have zero imagination  :-X
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