Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Viral_Jim on 10 June 2017, 18:14:56
-
Bit of an amateurish question - so bear with me.
I have a few jobs on the Swede that require me to join wires to the harness or add additional circuits in off the fuse board.
For the joints/connections I'm tempted to solder the wires and heat shrink the joints. This "feels" a better way than those crimp connections (which I also have plenty of). But I'm conscious that soldering creates a stiff section in the wire that could stress and break over time :-\.
What are your thoughts? Is there an alternative method I haven't considered?
-
Solder and shrink wrap is the best imo. Can't come apart and are well insulated.
-
But, then again, I haven't done any of this stuff for yonks, and no doubt they'll have invented something better :-\
-
Solder and shrink wrap is the best imo. Can't come apart and are well insulated.
+1
I HATE Scotchlok connectors as they actually damage the cable.
This is what the industry do when they make the looms with built in splices - but they take it one stage further by having resin inside the heat shrink to provide mechanical support to the soldered joint. Also, beware when repairing a broken wire as the repair will consume cable length! The way round that is to make a double splice to restore the original length - if you see my logic?
-
Solder and shrink wrap is the best imo. Can't come apart and are well insulated.
+1
I HATE Scotchlok connectors as they actually damage the cable.
This is what the industry do when they make the looms with built in splices - but they take it one stage further by having resin inside the heat shrink to provide mechanical support to the soldered joint. Also, beware when repairing a broken wire as the repair will consume cable length! The way round that is to make a double splice to restore the original length - if you see my logic?
so how do you do the solder? Lie each tinned wire side by side & apply heat or twist together & solder it all ...... :-\
-
Easier to watch then explain, sorry it's. American
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu3TYBs65FM
-
Cheers :). Despite being a yank he seems to know his stuff!
First attempt:
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c170/jimmy944/Mobile%20Uploads/C6AB9CE9-390A-41CE-8EF9-479C9333970A.jpg) (http://s27.photobucket.com/user/jimmy944/media/Mobile%20Uploads/C6AB9CE9-390A-41CE-8EF9-479C9333970A.jpg.html)
I suspect my soldering iron wasn't quite man to the task - 30 watts of pure power when it was new (13yrs ago). But you know what they say about bad workmen! ;D
-
yes i connect wires like that but a 12v electrician i know always just crimps wires with a decent crimper. i think just because it is much quicker. when i've tried crimping i can often pull the joint apart, soldering is much stronger and longer lasting
-
I used to love soldering til I found crimp bullet connectors. Crimp. Crimp. Melt each end to set the built in glue. Done. 👍
-
I used to love soldering til I found crimp bullet connectors. Crimp. Crimp. Melt each end to set the built in glue. Done. 👍
Interesting web by! Never come across Ines with glue in (unless I've bought them without knowing). The crimp ones I have are the basic ones- spade connector with a metal tube on plus a coloured plastic sleeve over.
Do you happen to have a link?
-
If youve ever owned a series land rover you wouldnt use a bullet connector again !. The looms were made of seperate sections all around the vehicle and then plugged together. All fine and dandy when new but they dont like vibration or moisture and cause all sorts of issues eventually. Twist ,fluxed electrical solder and shrink sleeve best way to go in my opinion .
-
I used to love soldering til I found crimp bullet connectors. Crimp. Crimp. Melt each end to set the built in glue. Done. 👍
now try that with a bundle of wires, or where you have to pull them through a hole. A well-done(something many people struggle with) soldered joint is still useful.
-
A well-done(something many people struggle with) soldered joint is still useful.
My problem last night was I couldn't get enough heat in the tier to melt the solder onto them. I harts melt it onto the point where the iron and wire touched and then try to flow it on from there. Not sure if the iron lacked oomph or my technique was poor (or both).
-
Providing you are not soldering in the wind /draught and you are not accidently using a high melting point solder then the solder should melt easily on the tip of the iron and flow into the joint easily as well. If it doesnt then you must have a lower powered iron than will heat the joint.make sure the tip is secure in the end /especially critical with the wire loop type gun irons. And that the tip is clean.
-
I used to love soldering til I found crimp bullet connectors. Crimp. Crimp. Melt each end to set the built in glue. Done. 👍
Interesting web by! Never come across Ines with glue in (unless I've bought them without knowing). The crimp ones I have are the basic ones- spade connector with a metal tube on plus a coloured plastic sleeve over.
Do you happen to have a link?
Here u go mate.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/292120332262?chn=ps&dispItem=1&adgroupid=33676502101&rlsatarget=pla-271883337275&abcId=893836&adtype=pla&merchantid=9754774&poi=&googleloc=9046195&device=m&campaignid=707291931&crdt=0&ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F710-134428-41853-0%252F2%253Fmpre%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.co.uk%25252Fi%25252F292120332262%25253Fchn%25253Dps%252526dispItem%25253D1%2526itemid%253D292120332262%2526targetid%253D271883337275%2526device%253Dm%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D9046195%2526poi%253D%2526campaignid%253D707291931%2526adgroupid%253D33676502101%2526rlsatarget%253Dpla-271883337275%2526abcId%253D893836%2526merchantid%253D9754774%2526gclid%253DCOG_i7HdttQCFQcQ0woda6wGMg%2526srcrot%253D710-134428-41853-0%2526rvr_id%253D1229809370294
They r called heat shrink and the heat shrink definitely has a sticky substance in it. Again I'd guess it was glue. 👍
-
Cheers mate :y
Bought those to go into stores, they have the look of something that'll come in useful!
-
Oh god yeah mate. Easier for me than soldering and as said when u melt the heat shrink there's a glue in there to
-
Crimped connectors, even with adhesives/resins to try to give them some element of mechanical strength, will always be unreliable. Always. I doubt anyone would dispute then, including the manufacturers. Also, you need a crimp type very specific for the type of cable you are doing, and most bullet crimps or scotlok type are wholly unsuitable for multistrand cable, and virtually all loom cables in a car are going to be multistrand for a reason...
Crimps are fast though. Hence the bodgers love them. They rarely last, and cause no end of reliability niggles down the line... ...the type that are a PITA to trace.
I prefer solder and heat shrink. If I'm worried about mechanical strength, you can get heatshrink with a heat activated adhesive on, but I tend to use normal adhesive, and heatshrink when its just going off ::)
Yesterday, I was fault finding an electrical issue on a large ride-on mower. Where was the fault? Yup, a (manufacturer done) crimped connector.
-
I'll add at this point....
"Technicians" at Audi are not allowed to solder wire repairs. They can get a disciplinary should they solder anything.
I'll leave you lot to mull that over :y
-
I'll add at this point....
"Technicians" at Audi are not allowed to solder wire repairs. They can get a disciplinary should they solder anything.
I'll leave you lot to mull that over :y
And that's a surprise why?
BMW Fitters weren't allowed to remove the sump plug during a service :-X ::)
-
I'll add at this point....
"Technicians" at Audi are not allowed to solder wire repairs. They can get a disciplinary should they solder anything.
I'll leave you lot to mull that over :y
And that's a surprise why?
BMW Fitters weren't allowed to remove the sump plug during a service :-X ::)
It's not a surprise when you hear stories of what can happen when things are soldered :)
-
Ps, before this turns in to an OOF witch hunt ;D ;D ;D I don't care what anyone chooses to do. It's your car so you do what you like. I personally choose the shrink/crimp things cos soldering is tricky for me. That's not to say I can't do it. But these things are so much easier :y
-
Ps, before this turns in to an OOF witch hunt ;D ;D ;D I don't care what anyone chooses to do. It's your car so you do what you like. I personally choose the shrink/crimp things cos soldering is tricky for me. That's not to say I can't do it. But these things are so much easier :y
Oh no no no. You don't wriggle out of it that easy, you bastard! ;D
-
Ps, before this turns in to an OOF witch hunt ;D ;D ;D I don't care what anyone chooses to do. It's your car so you do what you like. I personally choose the shrink/crimp things cos soldering is tricky for me. That's not to say I can't do it. But these things are so much easier :y
Oh no no no. You don't wriggle out of it that easy, you bastard! ;D
😂😂😂😂😂
-
I'll add at this point....
"Technicians" at Audi are not allowed to solder wire repairs. They can get a disciplinary should they solder anything.
I'll leave you lot to mull that over :y
And that's a surprise why?
BMW Fitters weren't allowed to remove the sump plug during a service :-X ::)
It's not a surprise when you hear stories of what can happen when things are soldered :)
If taped up rather than properly sealed, you can get corrosion at the end of the solder, if in a harsh environment. Or poor quality solder used.
Otherwise, generally not an issue... ...certainly better than scotchloks or those silly bullet/spade type crimps :y
-
I usually take the car to work and get a professional to do it. I struggle to solder with two hands, Christ knows how Webby would even attempt it. ::)
-
I'll add at this point....
"Technicians" at Audi are not allowed to solder wire repairs. They can get a disciplinary should they solder anything.
I'll leave you lot to mull that over :y
From my (limited) experience of VAG cabling I would suggest that the quality of the wire used is such poor quality that they would be wasting their time anyway........
-
I'll add at this point....
"Technicians" at Audi are not allowed to solder wire repairs. They can get a disciplinary should they solder anything.
I'll leave you lot to mull that over :y
From my (limited) experience of VAG cabling I would suggest that the quality of the wire used is such poor quality that they would be wasting their time anyway........
Agreed, I'm bored of repairing the fragile looms on Mrs VXL's Alhambra now.
-
I honestly can't remember the reason why it's "illegal" in vag world but I'll find out tomorrow 👍
-
I usually take the car to work and get a professional to do it. I struggle to solder with two hands, Christ knows how Webby would even attempt it. ::)
Scalding hot solder gun held under my "small arm" 😂 Twisted wires sat carefully on top of iron. When all wires hot enough solder flows through. But it's a right ball ache if they are thick wires as takes ages to heat. These heat shrink connectors are done in a couple of minutes even by me 😂
-
If you look at practically any connector on any car loom, 99 times out of 100 it'll be crimped at the factory.
When the wire, connector and tool are 100% compatible, it is a very reliable method of connection in an environment with movement and vibration like a car, because it doesn't concentrate stress on the cable like a soldered joint does.
However, DIY crimping tools are not great unless you spend quite a bit, and you need exactly the right size connector for the wire, and the right tool for the connector. I must admit, if I need to connect something to a car loom I generally use a solder joint, but I make sure it's supported by heat shrink sleeving and, preferably, cable tied to something solid locally to stop the wire flexing.
Don't use a scotchlok, whatever you do. ::)
-
Don't use a scotchlok, whatever you do. ::)
No fear! When I first got my kit car (more than a decade ago), I spent an unpleasant 3 weeks one summer removing about 100 scotch locks and trying to decipher the loom. The sadistic b@stard who built the damn thing only used light blue wires - and I mean for EVERYTHING! >:(
-
I usually take the car to work and get a professional to do it. I struggle to solder with two hands, Christ knows how Webby would even attempt it. ::)
Scalding hot solder gun held under my "small arm" 😂 Twisted wires sat carefully on top of iron. When all wires hot enough solder flows through. But it's a right ball ache if they are thick wires as takes ages to heat. These heat shrink connectors are done in a couple of minutes even by me 😂
You must be very determined mate. I would like to try to replicate this, just to see how difficult it is, but I know I would burn holes in myself from head to toe. ::) ;D
-
Don't use a scotchlok, whatever you do. ::)
No fear! When I first got my kit car (more than a decade ago), I spent an unpleasant 3 weeks one summer removing about 100 scotch locks and trying to decipher the loom. The sadistic b@stard who built the damn thing only used light blue wires - and I mean for EVERYTHING! >:(
Rewiring MrsGKs Polo,half the wires for the banging sound system were Scotchlocked, half of them twisted together and taped... Several of them burnt!
-
I usually take the car to work and get a professional to do it. I struggle to solder with two hands, Christ knows how Webby would even attempt it. ::)
Scalding hot solder gun held under my "small arm" 😂 Twisted wires sat carefully on top of iron. When all wires hot enough solder flows through. But it's a right ball ache if they are thick wires as takes ages to heat. These heat shrink connectors are done in a couple of minutes even by me 😂
You must be very determined mate. I would like to try to replicate this, just to see how difficult it is, but I know I would burn holes in myself from head to toe. ::) ;D
Yes, indeed. I take my hat off to you, Webby. :y Since "electron herding" is my hobby, I do quite a lot of soldering and normally two hands aren't quite enough.
I find a "helping hands" very useful in this scenario.
(http://images.clasohlson.com/medias/sys_master/8871310295070.jpg)
http://www.clasohlson.com/uk/Helping-Hand-Work-Aid/30-7666?gclid=CJrjoeuyutQCFUQz0wod-YEKnA
You can use it to hold the wire and connector in place, then you can apply the solder and iron.
-
I usually take the car to work and get a professional to do it. I struggle to solder with two hands, Christ knows how Webby would even attempt it. ::)
Scalding hot solder gun held under my "small arm" 😂 Twisted wires sat carefully on top of iron. When all wires hot enough solder flows through. But it's a right ball ache if they are thick wires as takes ages to heat. These heat shrink connectors are done in a couple of minutes even by me 😂
You must be very determined mate. I would like to try to replicate this, just to see how difficult it is, but I know I would burn holes in myself from head to toe. ::) ;D
Yes, indeed. I take my hat off to you, Webby. :y Since "electron herding" is my hobby, I do quite a lot of soldering and normally two hands aren't quite enough.
I find a "helping hands" very useful in this scenario.
(http://images.clasohlson.com/medias/sys_master/8871310295070.jpg)
http://www.clasohlson.com/uk/Helping-Hand-Work-Aid/30-7666?gclid=CJrjoeuyutQCFUQz0wod-YEKnA
You can use it to hold the wire and connector in place, then you can apply the solder and iron.
An excellent tool, i have had mine for years, and cannot imagine how I managed to solder before I had it.
-
An excellent tool, i have had mine for years, and cannot imagine how I managed to solder before I had it.
I went for 2 stacks of magazines, with one wire sandwiched in the middle of each stack. That said, if I had to do more than half a dozen wires every decade or so, I might have to invest in an alternative solution! ;D
-
I usually take the car to work and get a professional to do it. I struggle to solder with two hands, Christ knows how Webby would even attempt it. ::)
Scalding hot solder gun held under my "small arm" 😂 Twisted wires sat carefully on top of iron. When all wires hot enough solder flows through. But it's a right ball ache if they are thick wires as takes ages to heat. These heat shrink connectors are done in a couple of minutes even by me 😂
You must be very determined mate. I would like to try to replicate this, just to see how difficult it is, but I know I would burn holes in myself from head to toe. ::) ;D
Yes, indeed. I take my hat off to you, Webby. :y Since "electron herding" is my hobby, I do quite a lot of soldering and normally two hands aren't quite enough.
I find a "helping hands" very useful in this scenario.
(http://images.clasohlson.com/medias/sys_master/8871310295070.jpg)
http://www.clasohlson.com/uk/Helping-Hand-Work-Aid/30-7666?gclid=CJrjoeuyutQCFUQz0wod-YEKnA
You can use it to hold the wire and connector in place, then you can apply the solder and iron.
Bloody hell! I've got one of those...wondered what it was for ::)
-
....
Bloody hell! I've got one of those...wondered what it was for ::)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
In my yoof I used to work for a company that manu'd 16/18in 10/12 copper layer circuit boards.
All the components were surface mounted.....
When they didn't work I had to fault find them and change the duff component.....
This involved peering through a dual microscope just to see what you were doing and the soldering iron tip was heated with RF energy as it so fine...IIRC the soldering irons cost about £500 each and the tips for the irons about £50 each.....which would need replacing every week as the irons were left on 8/10hrs a day........
Probably what buggared up my eyesight...... :-\
-
....
Bloody hell! I've got one of those...wondered what it was for ::)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I see them all over the place on work and had no idea what they were for either. ::)
-
Handy bits of kit, not that I've replaced mine following the garage incident. I should really. And its my burfday soon.