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[Nick W]

   
Have you been an exhaust fitter as-well Nick,  first thing I was learned, use the blue spanner, and knock it thro, after cutting the nuts off first 

No, but several friends were. You pick up these tips waiting for them to close before going to the pub.
Exhaust work was one of the reasons I acquired an oxy-acet welding set, which has had much more use to heat stuff than for welding. The key thing is to use heat before you damage a part irretrievably - O2 sensors are a good example.

[biggriffin]

   
Have you been an exhaust fitter as-well Nick,  first thing I was learned, use the blue spanner, and knock it thro, after cutting the nuts off first 

No, but several friends were. You pick up these tips waiting for them to close before going to the pub.
Exhaust work was one of the reasons I acquired an oxy-acet welding set, which has had much more use to heat stuff than for welding. The key thing is to use heat before you damage a part irretrievably - O2 sensors are a good example.

 
 The blue spanner was used more than the chrome spanner,  especially for relaxing stainless downpipes, and removing old systems,,  Would think with modern HSE, not allowed the blue spanner anymore..

[johnnydog]

The 'blue spanner' is not permitted for any use in the workshop at my local Audi dealership - they have to resort to using a powerful hot airgun which I can't see being particularly effective, and then just end replacing the whole rusted component if that fails at an unnecessary cost to the customer.

[TheBoy]

I have fitted Bosal to two of my Omegas, both centre pipes and the back box, and in my opinion they are good quality. I got them from the local Bosal factory outside Preston (it has now closed), and they are made from a thick gauge steel, fit perfectly and sound well. Price was very good as well.
They seem better quality than the spare brand new VX pipes and back boxes that I have.
I've no complaints with them at all and I have used various makes of exhausts over the years on different cars.

That surprises me, as any Bosal exhaust I've had the displeasure of acquiring in the Omega era has been utterly nasty in every respect.

Fortunately, unless the car is on exclusively long runs, they rarely live out the 2 year warranty.

[terry paget]

Thank you, Nick and BigG, I have learned a lot today. I still wonder where to buy decent 8mm drills that I can put staight through the remains of a bolt at full speed, and am surprised to learn that you can punch them out when cherry red. It's a bit late for me now, with my easily bruised hands.
I did find that if a bolt did not turn with moderate torque on the spanner, it helped to get it red hot with the butane torch and try again. Hammering hollow nuts helped too, on brake bleed nipples and the like.
I have a hazy recollection that one of the lads at my MOT shop told me that a current from a Mig Welder between manifold bolt and cylinder head can release the thread. Is there anything in this?

[johnnydog]

I have fitted Bosal to two of my Omegas, both centre pipes and the back box, and in my opinion they are good quality. I got them from the local Bosal factory outside Preston (it has now closed), and they are made from a thick gauge steel, fit perfectly and sound well. Price was very good as well.
They seem better quality than the spare brand new VX pipes and back boxes that I have.
I've no complaints with them at all and I have used various makes of exhausts over the years on different cars.

That surprises me, as any Bosal exhaust I've had the displeasure of acquiring in the Omega era has been utterly nasty in every respect.

Fortunately, unless the car is on exclusively long runs, they rarely live out the 2 year warranty.

One has been on nearly 4 years, the other 18 months. Both are cars that do about 3-4 k a year.

[johnnydog]

Thank you, Nick and BigG, I have learned a lot today. I still wonder where to buy decent 8mm drills that I can put staight through the remains of a bolt at full speed, and am surprised to learn that you can punch them out when cherry red. It's a bit late for me now, with my easily bruised hands.
I did find that if a bolt did not turn with moderate torque on the spanner, it helped to get it red hot with the butane torch and try again. Hammering hollow nuts helped too, on brake bleed nipples and the like.

I find that Omegas with the original bolt into the threaded flange and the bolts are proving difficult to remove / release, a very thin cut in the edge of the flange through to the thread of the bolt using a very small thin cutting wheel on a Dremmel is sufficient to release the pressure on the bolt, and with a bit of heat they undo quite easily. A replacement bolt will still hold with the original threads, but a washer / spring washer and a nut for good measure works a treat.
They don't need to be overly tight after all.

[biggriffin]

Thank you, Nick and BigG, I have learned a lot today. I still wonder where to buy decent 8mm drills that I can put staight through the remains of a bolt at full speed, and am surprised to learn that you can punch them out when cherry red. It's a bit late for me now, with my easily bruised hands.
I did find that if a bolt did not turn with moderate torque on the spanner, it helped to get it red hot with the butane torch and try again. Hammering hollow nuts helped too, on brake bleed nipples and the like.
I have a hazy recollection that one of the lads at my MOT shop told me that a current from a Mig Welder between manifold bolt and cylinder head can release the thread. Is there anything in this?

 For decent drills a good fastener supplies,or engineering supplies, or from work ,   The mig welder is a bit it might undo or snap trying, we use to get the bolts in flanges etc nearly white, then a quick whack with a drift,out they come,  had a few close incidents when near fuel tanks, and old bangers that dripped fuel, but as we're British, don't panic,it's only a car worth a lot of money..

[Enceladus]

That surprises me, as any Bosal exhaust I've had the displeasure of acquiring in the Omega era has been utterly nasty in every respect.

Fortunately, unless the car is on exclusively long runs, they rarely live out the 2 year warranty.

Frequent or even daily long trips, don't help, not with a Bosal. Used to do high miles in a Carlton. No short trips. Local tyre and exhaust shop fitted a complete Bosal and it corroded and literally fell apart after about 16 months. All replaced under warranty. It corroded because the metal was ludicrously thin and of some sort of anonymous composition. I don't believe they've improved any since.

The original parts were Walker, I think. Much higher quality.

[Nick W]

Thank you, Nick and BigG, I have learned a lot today. I still wonder where to buy decent 8mm drills that I can put staight through the remains of a bolt at full speed, and am surprised to learn that you can punch them out when cherry red. It's a bit late for me now, with my easily bruised hands.

you buy quality drill bits from places that supply metal workers! They will have all the sizes you need for car work(3,6,8 and 10 will do) at affordable prices, Those four should be acheivable for less than a fiver. Ask if they have 6 and 8mm left-handed bits which sometimes wind out broken bolts as they drill, which can help for blind holes.


A properly ground, good quality 60° centre punch is worth having too, you want a deep mark so the drill starts where you want it. I'm still using an Eclipse one that was secondhand(Grandad probably liberated it from work) before I was born.


Knocking out a broken bolt is much easier if it's really hot; it needs to be glowing bright red.


Mig welding can help for a bolt broken off above the surface; you weld a blob to the end, hammer a nut over it, weld the nut to the blob and loosen before the whole mess cools down. Be careful when trying this, as if it doesn't work you'll be trying to drill through very hard mig weld.

[terry paget]

Thank you, Nick and BigG, I have learned a lot today. I still wonder where to buy decent 8mm drills that I can put staight through the remains of a bolt at full speed, and am surprised to learn that you can punch them out when cherry red. It's a bit late for me now, with my easily bruised hands.

you buy quality drill bits from places that supply metal workers! They will have all the sizes you need for car work(3,6,8 and 10 will do) at affordable prices, Those four should be acheivable for less than a fiver. Ask if they have 6 and 8mm left-handed bits which sometimes wind out broken bolts as they drill, which can help for blind holes.


A properly ground, good quality 60° centre punch is worth having too, you want a deep mark so the drill starts where you want it. I'm still using an Eclipse one that was secondhand(Grandad probably liberated it from work) before I was born.


Knocking out a broken bolt is much easier if it's really hot; it needs to be glowing bright red.


Mig welding can help for a bolt broken off above the surface; you weld a blob to the end, hammer a nut over it, weld the nut to the blob and loosen before the whole mess cools down. Be careful when trying this, as if it doesn't work you'll be trying to drill through very hard mig weld.

Thank you. I seem to have bought all my drill bits from Machine Mart. Some were cobalt steel, some were HSS titanium coated. Neither set provided an 8mm drill able to drill at full speed through a bolt stub.

[Nick W]

Thank you, Nick and BigG, I have learned a lot today. I still wonder where to buy decent 8mm drills that I can put staight through the remains of a bolt at full speed, and am surprised to learn that you can punch them out when cherry red. It's a bit late for me now, with my easily bruised hands.

you buy quality drill bits from places that supply metal workers! They will have all the sizes you need for car work(3,6,8 and 10 will do) at affordable prices, Those four should be acheivable for less than a fiver. Ask if they have 6 and 8mm left-handed bits which sometimes wind out broken bolts as they drill, which can help for blind holes.


A properly ground, good quality 60° centre punch is worth having too, you want a deep mark so the drill starts where you want it. I'm still using an Eclipse one that was secondhand(Grandad probably liberated it from work) before I was born.


Knocking out a broken bolt is much easier if it's really hot; it needs to be glowing bright red.


Mig welding can help for a bolt broken off above the surface; you weld a blob to the end, hammer a nut over it, weld the nut to the blob and loosen before the whole mess cools down. Be careful when trying this, as if it doesn't work you'll be trying to drill through very hard mig weld.

Thank you. I seem to have bought all my drill bits from Machine Mart. Some were cobalt steel, some were HSS titanium coated. Neither set provided an 8mm drill able to drill at full speed through a bolt stub.

I have their coated sets in both metric and imperial and they do all of my non-critical work. Drilling out, or drilling and tapping M8 threads certainly qualify! I use them in the lathe, mill and cordless drill for steel, aluminium and brass with no problems although stainless can be a bit tricky. A drill bit is a cutting tool, so the correct speed and feed are important. Too slow or gentle and you'll rub the edge off the tool and possibly harden the work. Too fast/hard and you'll burn both parts, preventing you from sharpening the tool. Cutting fluid helps, WD40 for aluminium, dark sulphur based for steel(Machine Mart have this) and Trefolex for stainless, although anything(engine oil, 3 in 1, clean cooking oil) better than nothing

[johnnydog]

That surprises me, as any Bosal exhaust I've had the displeasure of acquiring in the Omega era has been utterly nasty in every respect.

Fortunately, unless the car is on exclusively long runs, they rarely live out the 2 year warranty.

Frequent or even daily long trips, don't help, not with a Bosal. Used to do high miles in a Carlton. No short trips. Local tyre and exhaust shop fitted a complete Bosal and it corroded and literally fell apart after about 16 months. All replaced under warranty. It corroded because the metal was ludicrously thin and of some sort of anonymous composition. I don't believe they've improved any since.

The original parts were Walker, I think. Much higher quality.

The exhaust sections I got direct from Bosal were definitely not 'ludicrously thin' gauge steel, and one is still perfectly serviceable after 4 years which tends to contradict the view that they are exceptionally poor quality.
It is known that some vehicle component manufacturers made components of varying quality for different suppliers, and OEM components were of better quality than some genuine replacement parts.
Maybe there is a possibilty the ones I got direct from Bosal a short while before before the factory closed were of a higher quality than some that ended up for sale at motor factors.
A bit like the original GM back boxes with the angled stainless tailpipe tips and the outer skin on the silencer, compared to the replacement GM boxes that were just single skin and the straight tips that were mild steel - leagues apart in quality.

[TheBoy]

The exhaust sections I got direct from Bosal were definitely not 'ludicrously thin' gauge steel, and one is still perfectly serviceable after 4 years which tends to contradict the view that they are exceptionally poor quality.

...

Maybe there is a possibilty the ones I got direct from Bosal a short while before before the factory closed were of a higher quality than some that ended up for sale at motor factors.

Thats not been my experience in the entire Omega era, so the last 25yrs or more.

No idea if they always had multiple factories around the world with varying costs/quality, but its fair to say that a factory would not be exclusively making parts for customers who knock on the front gates.

So I have no choice but to conclude, as per my experiences of picking them up for many different cars from reputable motor factors (and less reputable like euroshite), that I have to agree with the whole world, and say they are appallingly bad quality, sound awful, and yet to see one fitted to a petrol car last the 2yr warranty.


I am delighted to hear that you have had better experiences though

[Andy B]

I just fitted a stainless exhaust (name of which fails me) when the OE first failed .... expensive at the time but it lasted while I had the car.