Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: SMD on 19 September 2012, 10:13:00
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I need new rubber all round. Currently have a different branded tyre on each corner and one that is 8 years old :-X. Wishbones and WIM will be done prior to tyre fitting. I'm looking at the likes of Goodyear F1 which for 17s cost £125 (cheapest I could find). For that money I could also buy Conti sport contact 3 or something a bit different Uniroyal Rainsport 2.
Anyone who run these, whats the dry/wet grip, braking, wear and noise like?
Thanks
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running 225 45 17 goodyear eagle f1 asymmetrics.. very grippy , silent, I cant see the wear rate, traction control light is off after I bought them and never seen abs working.. and mine is manual which was before lighting the traction control even with winter tires.. Opti bought the same tires 235 45 17 and was a tight fit as the tire has tick rim protection..but he reported no problems..
ps : all of the listed tires are good.. latest tests show conti is #1 in dry but in wet asymmetric is better ..
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Are yours on elite wheels?
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Are yours on elite wheels?
nope.. they are OEM wheels.. :-\
will find the link..
here.. with spacers
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=103517.0 (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=103517.0)
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Currently running sc3 very good tyre all round.
Will give 20k, so justifys the the more expensive price IMO.
Excellent grip wet or dry, good stability in the MO variant.
However they are bringing in the similarly ish priced sc5 so 3 is becoming more difficult to find in my preferred "MO" Mercedes variant with rim protection, as Micheldever didn't have any in.
I currently have the Audi variant and although not as stable are slightly more compliant. Early days with these though so will report as I find...
The sc3 don't give as planted a feel as the Dunlops such as sport maxx and tt but they do last longer. Considerably longer. Still give good directional stability though.
Goodyear give good results too but I have limited experience with those, although others speak highly off them.
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Eagle F1's and nothing else for me. I've tried all the big brands, and for me they are even better than Pilot sports. The new Bridgestone S00 series are meant to be good, a direct replacement for the S02 and S03, however not available in 235/45/17 yet. :y :y :y :y You will get the second series Eagles F1's now, Ive got them on the rear of mine and series one on the front. Both awesome, done 15,000miles on fronts, maybe 4-5 mil left in tread. So should see 25,000 miles from the front, maybe 30,000 from the rears.
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The SC5s cost quite a bit more in XL version. SC3 are quite noisy aren't they Chris? For this reason swaying towards Goodyears
Had the uniroyals on a Civic VTi which had really bad inner edge tyre wear due to suspension issues so can't really compare but others have good things to say about them.
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Sc3 not particularly quiet tbh.
Got my prices from Micheldever tyres.
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I need new rubber all round. Currently have a different branded tyre on each corner and one that is 8 years old :-X. Wishbones and WIM will be done prior to tyre fitting. I'm looking at the likes of Goodyear F1 which for 17s cost £125 (cheapest I could find). For that money I could also buy Conti sport contact 3 or something a bit different Uniroyal Rainsport 2.
Anyone who run these, whats the dry/wet grip, braking, wear and noise like?
Thanks
Uniroyal is what I would go for if I could afford them. Allways liked them and havegiven good mileage and great grip for me.
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I don't personally rate them. Eagle F1's are the same price as rainsport of mytyres.co.uk. Why by a lesser tyre for the same money, makes no sense! Everyone's preference I suppose..
Eagle F1's now £100 a corner, cheap IMO. I paid £600 for four including fitting/balancing and tracking recently...
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Uniroyal's are good tyres, and extremely good in the wet, never had a tyre which deals with aqua planing so well either.
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I need some tyres, quite desperately.
I am a big Sport Maxx TT fan, but reckon I may try some more SC3 XL for durability. £168 a pop though (in my size) :'(
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For which car?
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I need some tyres, quite desperately.
I am a big Sport Maxx TT fan, but reckon I may try some more SC3 XL for durability. £168 a pop though (in my size) :'(
XL? Do they have rim protection? I had the MO mercedes version to get rim protection. These seem to handle firmer than the Audi variant I have now. Less rim protection. ...just concerned if your going to get the same handling of the MO on the XL. Actually I've never heard of the XL. MO only. I didn't know the variants made that much difference.
Also, given your "dis connected" comments in TBE's handling, that I didn't think was too bad even with the tyres and split rearward bushes (except the obvious pull on the brakes...) I am concerned that you'll be disappointed with the cars feel, given that Dunlops give a VERY planted feel compared to any other tyre I've experienced.
The MO are very stable directionally, but still not as planted as tt.
Audi, not as stable.
XL no experience.
Re conti Audi and Mercedes variants, results perhaps not surprising given their suspension set ups.
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XL - eXtra Load, ie, load index, 94.
I was driving the MV6 back from MK for the 3rd time on Saturday (long story), thinking how well it rode, even when tottling along. But an annual £700-£800 tyre bill (per car) is not really viable
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Think MO are 93 Y. But as long as your aware...
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Sport Maxx's are well known to have a short life. Presumably due to a softer compound? Have never used them myself on the Omega though. The Contis are quite hard and last reasonably long, but are very noisy. Goodyear F1 assym 2 for me. Best tyre all around.
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Sport Maxx's are well known to have a short life. Presumably due to a softer compound? Have never used them myself on the Omega though. The Contis are quite hard and last reasonably long, but are very noisy. Goodyear F1 assym 2 for me. Best tyre all around.
SC3 not as noisy as Dunlops ;)
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...and do manage a reasonable grip level v life. Hence the interest. :)
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Currently running sc3 very good tyre all round.
Will give 20k, so justifys the the more expensive price IMO.
Excellent grip wet or dry, good stability in the MO variant.
However they are bringing in the similarly ish priced sc5 so 3 is becoming more difficult to find in my preferred "MO" Mercedes variant with rim protection, as Micheldever didn't have any in.
I currently have the Audi variant and although not as stable are slightly more compliant. Early days with these though so will report as I find...
The sc3 don't give as planted a feel as the Dunlops such as sport maxx and tt but they do last longer. Considerably longer. Still give good directional stability though.
Goodyear give good results too but I have limited experience with those, although others speak highly off them.
I am told the only difference between MO and the std SC3 is a soft start compound is used on MO, to give ecellent grip from new, much like the SP9090 over the SP9000
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Chris, the SC3 is available in MO from blackcircles although in W 94. Is this unsuitable for Omegas?
I will be going for the F1s. Sadly the price has gone up by £2 per tyre in the last two days >:(
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Currently running sc3 very good tyre all round.
Will give 20k, so justifys the the more expensive price IMO.
Excellent grip wet or dry, good stability in the MO variant.
However they are bringing in the similarly ish priced sc5 so 3 is becoming more difficult to find in my preferred "MO" Mercedes variant with rim protection, as Micheldever didn't have any in.
I currently have the Audi variant and although not as stable are slightly more compliant. Early days with these though so will report as I find...
The sc3 don't give as planted a feel as the Dunlops such as sport maxx and tt but they do last longer. Considerably longer. Still give good directional stability though.
Goodyear give good results too but I have limited experience with those, although others speak highly off them.
I am told the only difference between MO and the std SC3 is a soft start compound is used on MO, to give ecellent grip from new, much like the SP9090 over the SP9000
utter 'dangle berries'! As said check the conti web site. It's listed in detail.
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Currently running sc3 very good tyre all round.
Will give 20k, so justifys the the more expensive price IMO.
Excellent grip wet or dry, good stability in the MO variant.
However they are bringing in the similarly ish priced sc5 so 3 is becoming more difficult to find in my preferred "MO" Mercedes variant with rim protection, as Micheldever didn't have any in.
I currently have the Audi variant and although not as stable are slightly more compliant. Early days with these though so will report as I find...
The sc3 don't give as planted a feel as the Dunlops such as sport maxx and tt but they do last longer. Considerably longer. Still give good directional stability though.
Goodyear give good results too but I have limited experience with those, although others speak highly off them.
I am told the only difference between MO and the std SC3 is a soft start compound is used on MO, to give ecellent grip from new, much like the SP9090 over the SP9000
utter 'dangle berries'! As said check the conti web site. It's listed in detail.
There is absolutely sweet FA on the UK Contiental Tyres website. Only one variant of SC3. To be honest, such a crap website is putting me off their product
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The MO are very stable directionally, but still not as planted as tt.
Audi, not as stable.
XL no experience.
Could this be down to load ratings? Audi only available in XL, Merc on both 91 and 95.
Pretty sure the Omega, for 17s is stated as needing load rating of 94 or better?
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As TB says, no info re the variants on conti's website. Plus they are universally hailed as being noisy. My experience with conti SC3 on a FWD Focus ST was less than favourable. They did ok, but certainly did not make me feel like they were worth the extra premium that I paid. I am very tempted to try these next:
http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?details=Ordern&cart_id=40023695.110.18630&typ=D-104577&ranzahl=4&Breite=235&Quer=45&Felge=17&Load=93&Speed=W&weiter=50&Ang_pro_Seite=50&sort_by=brand&Transport=P&dsco=110 (http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?details=Ordern&cart_id=40023695.110.18630&typ=D-104577&ranzahl=4&Breite=235&Quer=45&Felge=17&Load=93&Speed=W&weiter=50&Ang_pro_Seite=50&sort_by=brand&Transport=P&dsco=110)
They score highly on quiteness, wear and have above average grip.
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As TB says, no info re the variants on conti's website. Plus they are universally hailed as being noisy. My experience with conti SC3 on a FWD Focus ST was less than favourable. They did ok, but certainly did not make me feel like they were worth the extra premium that I paid. I am very tempted to try these next:
http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?details=Ordern&cart_id=40023695.110.18630&typ=D-104577&ranzahl=4&Breite=235&Quer=45&Felge=17&Load=93&Speed=W&weiter=50&Ang_pro_Seite=50&sort_by=brand&Transport=P&dsco=110 (http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?details=Ordern&cart_id=40023695.110.18630&typ=D-104577&ranzahl=4&Breite=235&Quer=45&Felge=17&Load=93&Speed=W&weiter=50&Ang_pro_Seite=50&sort_by=brand&Transport=P&dsco=110)
They score highly on quiteness, wear and have above average grip.
In 2 yrs of owning a POS Focus, and all the friggin ones I've been stitched up as hire cars, nothing will make any Focus do corners. Inherrently shite. Much improved on the Escort, granted, but still utter shite.
But back you the main bulk of your post, SC3 are far quieter than the Dunlops I use on the MV6. If you want quiet, I'd recommend Falken 912. Very quiet. Until the emergency services sirens break the peace, and rush you to hospital.
Generic tyre reviews mean absolutely diddly. Thats why I go out of my way not to read them. What works on a FWD shitbox probably won't work on a 2t exec saloon. Additionally, even within the same model of tyre on the same car, load ratind and even speed rating can make a dramatic difference. This is my my little Rover, RIP, used P6000 V rated, even though its top speed was within the H rating, as the P6000 H rated was shite - fortunately a short lived, albeit expensive, mistake, as they only managed about 8k. 8K of pure understeer though, so fun was had ::)
Additionally, everyone wants something different from their tyres. I mean, FFS, people actually choose Michelin. I assume these people are depressed and want to end it all, but there are more reliable ways to top yourself ;D.
I know what tyres can produce the levels of grip, both cornering and stopping, that I am looking for, now just have to find something thats more durable than the Sport Maxx TT's I use on the MV6 (which are a stunning tyre, but too expensive to replace annually/10k).
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Similarly, I think it is a bit unfair to compare a Focus ST to a standard focus. They are quite different, having actually driven both myself.
I havent actually weighted my purchase with any reviews, but just what I have experienced myself. The link was purely to a purchase price for those tyres. It is quite difficult to decide on what tyre is best for your car, so I suspect most people use reviews performed by a testing panel as a base to start off. I see nothing wrong with that. Yes it isn't representative of how it may work on your car, but then I suppose no manufacturer would have used an Omega to design their tyres since 2004.
Wanting a tyre that grips, yet doesnt sound like a turbine in a 2T executive car is not an unreasonable ask, is it? After all the Omega wasn't designed for speed or track days was it? Certainly not my elite.
I find PS3's quite good on my Omega and i dont drive slowly, I can assure you. This is after covering 10k on them. The SC3's were good but not worth the premium IME. Thats all, so I choose not to buy them again unless I run out of options. Have you actually used the PS3's? They are quite different to the PS2's that I have used in a RWD BMW a good few years ago.
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Have you actually used the PS3's? They are quite different to the PS2's that I have used in a RWD BMW a good few years ago.
I have had both PS2 and PS3 on Omegas, and thought they were appalling. Very good stopping capability though, awesome in fact. Just really didn't like corners. Overall, probably one of the worse tyres I've ever had on the Omega, including all the budgets. Not as bad as Autogrip in the wet though, they do try to kill you ;D. I found the PS2 and PS3 to have similar characteristics, and I couldn't really tell them apart :-\
I also had PS2's on the Rover 400 (lease car, we had no say on what tyres went on), and after about 2k of good grip, they became skittish and inspired no confidence.
(Assumption PS = Pilot Sport)
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You assume correctly. Shame you find the PS3 poor. I find them very good. Have you tried the GY F1 assymetric 2 yet? Noisy, but very grippy. Not too expensive either?
Oh, are you tyres standard 17 MV6's?
At least we agree that Falkens are deadly on the Omega. ;D
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Are the Goodyears quieter than the SC3 ?
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Goodyears (f1 asym 2) definitely silent, unless you start slide and sideways ;D but temperature difference may have effect , not sure.. :-\
PS3 I found them very good on a friends car (accord).. but tyres were new..
for clit I'm using pilot exalto pe2 which was excellent but its a different league..
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Good to know. As I said earlier, I have 4 different branded tyres with different amount of tread on each tyre resulting in a little tyre noise on the motorway ;D
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Currently running sc3 very good tyre all round.
Will give 20k, so justifys the the more expensive price IMO.
Excellent grip wet or dry, good stability in the MO variant.
However they are bringing in the similarly ish priced sc5 so 3 is becoming more difficult to find in my preferred "MO" Mercedes variant with rim protection, as Micheldever didn't have any in.
I currently have the Audi variant and although not as stable are slightly more compliant. Early days with these though so will report as I find...
The sc3 don't give as planted a feel as the Dunlops such as sport maxx and tt but they do last longer. Considerably longer. Still give good directional stability though.
Goodyear give good results too but I have limited experience with those, although others speak highly off them.
I am told the only difference between MO and the std SC3 is a soft start compound is used on MO, to give ecellent grip from new, much like the SP9090 over the SP9000
utter 'dangle berries'! As said check the conti web site. It's listed in detail.
There is absolutely sweet FA on the UK Contiental Tyres website. Only one variant of SC3. To be honest, such a crap website is putting me off their product
Bloody awkward admin! ;D
http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/automobile/themes/car-tires/summer-tires/contisportcontact-3/contisportcontact-3,tabNr=4.html
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Have you tried the GY F1 assymetric 2 yet? Noisy, but very grippy. Not too expensive either?
Not on mine, only on other Omegas (so I wouldn't have driven it as hard as mine). I reserve judgement, but wasn't that impressed, I was expecting better after the reports I'd heard from people I trust.
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Currently running sc3 very good tyre all round.
Will give 20k, so justifys the the more expensive price IMO.
Excellent grip wet or dry, good stability in the MO variant.
However they are bringing in the similarly ish priced sc5 so 3 is becoming more difficult to find in my preferred "MO" Mercedes variant with rim protection, as Micheldever didn't have any in.
I currently have the Audi variant and although not as stable are slightly more compliant. Early days with these though so will report as I find...
The sc3 don't give as planted a feel as the Dunlops such as sport maxx and tt but they do last longer. Considerably longer. Still give good directional stability though.
Goodyear give good results too but I have limited experience with those, although others speak highly off them.
I am told the only difference between MO and the std SC3 is a soft start compound is used on MO, to give ecellent grip from new, much like the SP9090 over the SP9000
utter 'dangle berries'! As said check the conti web site. It's listed in detail.
There is absolutely sweet FA on the UK Contiental Tyres website. Only one variant of SC3. To be honest, such a crap website is putting me off their product
Bloody awkward admin! ;D
http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/automobile/themes/car-tires/summer-tires/contisportcontact-3/contisportcontact-3,tabNr=4.html
So, as suspected, Merc only on 91. Not sure thats enough.
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as we concluded (at least I tought we concluded) before, driver impressions changes from person to person.. :-\
so the only thing that must be accounted is physical measurements on the road..
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as we concluded (at least I tought we concluded) before, driver impressions changes from person to person.. :-\
Everyone has different demands on tyres.
so the only thing that must be accounted is physical measurements on the road..
Tyre reviews are only useful if done on the same car, ideally set up the same way, and if a comparison is being done, by the same driver. For example, a Michelin PS3 driver's view on the amount of grip his tyres can give in a corner will be wildly different to mine.
Which makes every single tyre review site out there utterly useless.
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as we concluded (at least I tought we concluded) before, driver impressions changes from person to person.. :-\
1.Everyone has different demands on tyres.
so the only thing that must be accounted is physical measurements on the road..
2.Tyre reviews are only useful if done on the same car, ideally set up the same way, and if a comparison is being done, by the same driver. For example, a Michelin PS3 driver's view on the amount of grip his tyres can give in a corner will be wildly different to mine.
3.Which makes every single tyre review site out there utterly useless.
1.you will demand acceleration, braking and cornering.. everyone wants the same..
2.Tyre tests are done by serious organizaions like TUV or others.. physical measurements are done with different tyre brands .. can you claim you will run 100 metres faster than Usain bolt under different conditions ::)
3. cant agree
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1.you will demand acceleration, braking and cornering.. everyone wants the same..
But my idea of those clearly is different to a PS3 driver's idea of the same. OK, I'll concede the PS3 has a stunning stopping ability in the dry.
Additionally, tunnie for example, wants none of those, he wants something that lasts a million miles, and doesn't care about grip.
2.Tyre tests are done by serious organizaions like TUV or others.. physical measurements are done with different tyre brands .. can you claim you will run 100 metres faster than Usain bolt under different conditions ::)
It matters not who do them. Unless the comparison is done on the same car, by the same driver, its invalid. Has no meaning. Pointless.
I can assure you, Pirelli P6000 (a rather mediocre tyre IMHO) is not a good tyre on the Omega. Its 'OK', but not good. On my previous Astras, it was quite poor. On my little Rover, its stunning. Brilliant. Can't praise it enough. I would also say, on the Rover, there was a marked difference in handling between the H and V rated ones.
So even with the same sized car, same driver, tthe same tyre can swing both ends of the scale with different cars.
3. cant agree
Understandable if we can't agree on first 2 points :y
I will never listen to any review unless its done by someone who makes the same compromises as me, drives a similar style to me, and is done on the same car, set up similar to mine. Otherwise its a waste of time. IMHO.
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I will never listen to any review unless its done by someone who makes the same compromises as me, drives a similar style to me, and is done on the same car, set up similar to mine. Otherwise its a waste of time. IMHO.
That could be difficult, most of them will be serving time for driving like you. ;) ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D
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...and the fact tyre makers build tyres for a specific car, and even a specific range, proves the point that "a tyre" will very easily perform differently on a different car. So unless anyone can come up with a tyre test on an omega we are still very much in the dark as to what works for us on the omega, and what doesn't. And that's before we take driving styles into account.
Having said that, I still believe if we had the resources to run an off tyre test, and had honest drivers that understood what they want from a "good" tyre while accepting thier own driving level to match, I am sure we would all come to very similar conclusions, provided the car was constant, in good nic, and preferably an omega.
I am sure there would be groups of drivers. Fa(s)t medium slow etc, within the results that would prefer a longer lasting tyre over a grippy one etc...
But then again, with no experience of driving at all a tyre test might be the only point if reference.
Personally given given my experience with 3 types of sc3, results can be very different. Why? Maybe suspension design comes into it.
McPherson strut suspension on omega.
Same on Mercedes perhaps? Cirtainly they're later models have extreme castor angles.
Multi link suspension on Audi known to be harsh and prone to failure.
Lexus dual wish own design is highly accurate but very hard, so all of these makers will ask very different qualitys from their tyres.
Eg I do wonder if Her Lexus will benefit from a set of Falkens, although she's happy with the noisy harsh ride Kumho ku31 give the car.
You see my point? Various cars with various suspension designs and drivers with very different ideas on what qualifies as a "good tyre" means tyre test relevance is non existent. ESP on our 10 year old buses.
Cirtainly what's recommended On here sometimes is obviously not based on first hand ecperience.
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My prefered budget tyre (and tread pattern) is available in 17" and 18" :y so I am having a set fitted to my mfl MV6 wheels which are being refurbed as we speak...
Chris, when you have a drive to test the poly donuts, you'll be able to compare them with the brands that you've tried thus far :y
I suspect that if we bought Tunnie a set of Autogrip F107s he would suddenly develop a very keen interest in tyre performance :-X
Personally, I found the Goodyear NCTs that were originally fitted to be an effective tyre in both wet and dry and also under duress, however they barely lasted 10k, which, given their price, meant that they were not such good value for money :-\
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I suspect that if we bought Tunnie a set of Autogrip F107s he would suddenly develop a very keen interest in tyre performance :-X
He drove with my Autogrip, and didn't notice ;D. Mrs TB drove to one of the Wycombe meets with my Autogrip, and refused to drive the car again :-X
So even though they both have a Miss Daisy driving style, there will be differences in tyre demands.
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We must stop using Tunnie as a benchmark it really isn't fair. (snigger)
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OK, found the specs on TIS - not directly, but against tyre pressures. GM state for facelifts (for 235/45/17) 94W and Opel Aftermarket as 93W and 94W. This fits in with that info in the back of my mind that Omegas on 17" rim should have 94 or higher (although 93 or higher seems to be the case) - though not sure where I got that, as not in FL manual. Maybe in MFL manual?
Which puts the SC3 MO out of the equation, as not available in anything other than 91 in my size.
//TB goes off to the Dunlop site...
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We must stop using Tunnie as a benchmark it really isn't fair. (snigger)
I shouldn't embarrass him and publically post that Mrs TB, a girl, has more feel for the chassis than he does ::)
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It must have been dry when T drove it then ::) Currently have them fitted to the front of mine, (emergency purchase and it was either them or Duruns). Show them a drop of moisture and the car instantly understeers like a deer on ice :o
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It must have been dry when T drove it then ::) Currently have them fitted to the front of mine, (emergency purchase and it was either them or Duruns). Show them a drop of moisture and the car instantly understeers like a deer on ice :o
Indeed, a truely lethal tyre, impossible to control with even the slightest amount of moisture on the road.
Some may think I drove it too hard, but I lost the back in the summer, on a day where it had rained early (roads not wet, just damp), on a roundabout, at about 15mph.
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It must have been dry when T drove it then ::) Currently have them fitted to the front of mine, (emergency purchase and it was either them or Duruns). Show them a drop of moisture and the car instantly understeers like a deer on ice :o
Indeed, a truely lethal tyre, impossible to control with even the slightest amount of moisture on the road.
Some may think I drove it too hard, but I lost the back in the summer, on a day where it had rained early (roads not wet, just damp), on a roundabout, at about 15mph.
Quite entertaining when you expect/instigate it, downright terrifying when you don't :o
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1.you will demand acceleration, braking and cornering.. everyone wants the same..
But my idea of those clearly is different to a PS3 driver's idea of the same. OK, I'll concede the PS3 has a stunning stopping ability in the dry.
Additionally, tunnie for example, wants none of those, he wants something that lasts a million miles, and doesn't care about grip.
2.Tyre tests are done by serious organizaions like TUV or others.. physical measurements are done with different tyre brands .. can you claim you will run 100 metres faster than Usain bolt under different conditions ::)
It matters not who do them. Unless the comparison is done on the same car, by the same driver, its invalid. Has no meaning. Pointless.
I can assure you, Pirelli P6000 (a rather mediocre tyre IMHO) is not a good tyre on the Omega. Its 'OK', but not good. On my previous Astras, it was quite poor. On my little Rover, its stunning. Brilliant. Can't praise it enough. I would also say, on the Rover, there was a marked difference in handling between the H and V rated ones.
So even with the same sized car, same driver, tthe same tyre can swing both ends of the scale with different cars.
3. cant agree
Understandable if we can't agree on first 2 points :y
I will never listen to any review unless its done by someone who makes the same compromises as me, drives a similar style to me, and is done on the same car, set up similar to mine. Otherwise its a waste of time. IMHO.
1.. you can also add longevity.. this is also something desired in common..
2. tyres are physical and chemical structures.. so do the road asphalt.. and tire grip is a function of tire compound , thread shape and road surface .. its called friction coefficient..and its independant from mass or any other forces.. its obvious you give more importance to cars suspension setup and driver than they deserve .. of course they do effect, but in science when measuring factors you keep some parameters fix to solve the problem..besides with respect to phsysic laws the manin component that keeps you on the road is this fricition coefficient.. you can not change that by changing car or the driver..
if measurements was useless we would still live in stone age..
and finally the measured braking distances, acceleration and lateral grip will be proportional with respect to brand in any other car.. but claiming a tire will have a better lateral grip or stopping distance than the test measurement and beating other better rivals is simply against science.. Like the Usain Bolt example..
tyre companies spend serious money during development phase and they advance .. how ? because they measure.. if tyres behave absolutely different in other cars, they would be happy and stop spending money..
if you have time, please take a glance at this link..
http://www.motortrend.com/features/consumer/1103_goodyear_eagle_f1_asymmetric_2_tire_test/viewall.html (http://www.motortrend.com/features/consumer/1103_goodyear_eagle_f1_asymmetric_2_tire_test/viewall.html)
you will see how much effort is spent.. From my point of view neglecting all this work is emotional than being logical..
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Tyre companys dont run tests by journalists cem. And nobody runs tests on omegas!
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1.you will demand acceleration, braking and cornering.. everyone wants the same..
But my idea of those clearly is different to a PS3 driver's idea of the same. OK, I'll concede the PS3 has a stunning stopping ability in the dry.
Additionally, tunnie for example, wants none of those, he wants something that lasts a million miles, and doesn't care about grip.
2.Tyre tests are done by serious organizaions like TUV or others.. physical measurements are done with different tyre brands .. can you claim you will run 100 metres faster than Usain bolt under different conditions ::)
It matters not who do them. Unless the comparison is done on the same car, by the same driver, its invalid. Has no meaning. Pointless.
I can assure you, Pirelli P6000 (a rather mediocre tyre IMHO) is not a good tyre on the Omega. Its 'OK', but not good. On my previous Astras, it was quite poor. On my little Rover, its stunning. Brilliant. Can't praise it enough. I would also say, on the Rover, there was a marked difference in handling between the H and V rated ones.
So even with the same sized car, same driver, tthe same tyre can swing both ends of the scale with different cars.
3. cant agree
Understandable if we can't agree on first 2 points :y
I will never listen to any review unless its done by someone who makes the same compromises as me, drives a similar style to me, and is done on the same car, set up similar to mine. Otherwise its a waste of time. IMHO.
1.. you can also add longevity.. this is also something desired in common..
2. tyres are physical and chemical structures.. so do the road asphalt.. and tire grip is a function of tire compound , thread shape and road surface .. its called friction coefficient..and its independant from mass or any other forces.. its obvious you give more importance to cars suspension setup and driver than they deserve .. of course they do effect, but in science when measuring factors you keep some parameters fix to solve the problem..besides with respect to physic laws the main component that keeps you on the road is this friction coefficient.. you can not change that by changing car or the driver..
if measurements was useless we would still live in stone age..
and finally the measured braking distances, acceleration and lateral grip will be proportional with respect to brand in any other car.. but claiming a tire will have a better lateral grip or stopping distance than the test measurement and beating other better rivals is simply against science.. Like the Usain Bolt example..
tyre companies spend serious money during development phase and they advance .. how ? because they measure.. if tyres behave absolutely different in other cars, they would be happy and stop spending money..
if you have time, please take a glance at this link..
http://www.motortrend.com/features/consumer/1103_goodyear_eagle_f1_asymmetric_2_tire_test/viewall.html (http://www.motortrend.com/features/consumer/1103_goodyear_eagle_f1_asymmetric_2_tire_test/viewall.html)
you will see how much effort is spent.. From my point of view neglecting all this work is emotional than being logical..
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Tyre companys dont run tests by journalists cem. And nobody runs tests on omegas!
journalists reflect what tests and trials are done for that specific tire Chris.. Omega is an ordinary German car similiar size length like others.. similiar suspension setups are also used on other cars.. so dont change the equation..
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Tyre companys dont run tests by journalists cem. And nobody runs tests on omegas!
journalists reflect what tests and trials are done for that specific tire Chris.. Omega is an ordinary German car similiar size length like others.. similiar suspension setups are also used on other cars.. so dont change the equation..
I haven't changed the equation, the tyre manufacturers do, by making tyres to suit specific cars. And I can tell you catagorcally that an sc3 for an Audi handles differently to an sc3 for a Merc when fitted to an omega.
Now if we're to follow an open minded view, I'm expecting you to ask me what exactly I mean by handling.
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2. tyres are physical and chemical structures.. so do the road asphalt.. and tire grip is a function of tire compound , thread shape and road surface .. its called friction coefficient..and its independant from mass or any other forces.. its obvious you give more importance to cars suspension setup and driver than they deserve .. of course they do effect, but in science when measuring factors you keep some parameters fix to solve the problem..besides with respect to phsysic laws the manin component that keeps you on the road is this fricition coefficient.. you can not change that by changing car or the driver..
You are forgetting all about the forces applied, and how that affects grip. This is also a key part of the jigsaw, and something every car will do differently, as they have different ways of forcing the tyre into the tarmac.
So car has a huge difference in how a tyre will react, as I have shown in an earlier post with my experience of P6000.
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That being, geometry! Every car is different, even the next one off the production line. Or even the next one off WIM's ramp. ( ok, being fussy now, but it does happen ;) )
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That being, geometry! Every car is different, even the next one off the production line. Or even the next one off WIM's ramp. ( ok, being fussy now, but it does happen ;) )
Not just geometry, but suspension design as well. Double wishbone cars put different forces across the tyre width than, for example, McPherson.
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That being, geometry! Every car is different, even the next one off the production line. Or even the next one off WIM's ramp. ( ok, being fussy now, but it does happen ;) )
Not just geometry, but suspension design as well. Double wishbone cars put different forces across the tyre width than, for example, McPherson.
quite so. :)
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I'll recommend to read some more physics.. end of :y
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I'll recommend to read some more physics.. end of :y
Gave that up after A levels...
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TB; I think you are being pedantic here. What you say is true, but applies across the spectrum of life. For example medicines. You can only test them on a small group of people and if it works we assume a class effect. However they are so many variables; genetics, upbringing, allergies, other underlying conditions, other medications being taken etc etc. Surely we cannot test for every single variable. In the same vein of your post, then you would only accept a treatment/medicine if it had been tested on someone exactly the same as you, living in exactly the same place, eating exactly the same food etc; you get my gist? But then there isnt anyone exactly the same as you is there?
I see and agree with your point, but to progress scientifically some compromises have to be made. To completely put down the effort made by a group of specialists seems unreasonable in my eyes.
And like I said before, it seems very unlikely that what you want will ever happen on an Omega.
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D it's for exactly the reasons you explain, quite rightly, that tyre tests are useless to us. There comes a point where they are irrelevant. IMO this point was passed years ago.
That's not to say the info on tyres inaccurate or wrong in any way.
It's simply too personal a thing, but only after a certain point. TB likes a car that turns in well without under stear. I like a car that doesn't tram line and holds good corner speed. Show me the tests for these ...?
Only first hand experience is relevant after a point in experience is passed.
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Goodyears (f1 asym 2) definitely silent, unless you start slide and sideways ;D but temperature difference may have effect , not sure.. :-\
PS3 I found them very good on a friends car (accord).. but tyres were new..
for clit I'm using pilot exalto pe2 which was excellent but its a different league..
Simply brilliant tyres. I paid £98 each plus £10 a corner for fitting and balance. My MV6 runs on 235/45/17. :y
Check out the customer reviews. :y
.........and avoid Bridgestone Potenza. They are shite. :y
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.........and avoid Bridgestone Potenza. They are shite. :y
They are certainly slippery on the Omega. Added to that, they have a MASSIVE rim protector, which will require a camber compromise if used on the front.
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Yes they where highly recomended by a member here iirc. 010? Noisy harsh and the ones I had, although part worn on a car I bought, had very little grip.
Which just goes to show that one mans grip is another mans sliding around.
These ones had so much rim protection they physically would not fit on the front axle for fouling the shock upright. Although I can't see that being standard tbh. :-\
Personally I also think recommending tyres should be banned ;D. ....unless the owner has owned through out the entire life. It's an easy trap to fall into, as with The Falkens I had. :-[ Tyres can degrade very quickly into something very unpleasant. Comparing through the tyres life at equal stages, as opposed to new tyres compared to the knackered crap that came off.
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I have used 215 55 16 size potenzas (adrenaline), and they were a perfect fit.. never seen any problem and any skid despite my efforts..
and besides this tyre is used by Aston martin.. and they dont know anything ;D :P
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I have used 215 55 16 size potenzas (adrenaline), and they were a perfect fit.. never seen any problem and any skid despite my efforts..
235/45/17 doesn't fit the front without shock fouling, on stock Omega rims. As to the lateral grip levels, shows how different drivers have different needs ;). I have driven these on chrisgixer's car when he first got them, thought they were slippery. I now have these tyres on the back of mine, temporarily, and views haven't changed (although they are very worn now)
and besides this tyre is used by Aston martin.. and they dont know anything ;D :P
I suspect they have their own variant, not the stock tyre. But even that aside, thats the point, a tyre that works well on a sports coupe can be far from ideal on a large exec saloon with a completely different suspension setup.
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I have used 215 55 16 size potenzas (adrenaline), and they were a perfect fit.. never seen any problem and any skid despite my efforts..
235/45/17 doesn't fit the front without shock fouling, on stock Omega rims. As to the lateral grip levels, shows how different drivers have different needs ;) . I have driven these on chrisgixer's car when he first got them, thought they were slippery. I now have these tyres on the back of mine, temporarily, and views haven't changed (although they are very worn now)
and besides this tyre is used by Aston martin.. and they dont know anything ;D :P
I suspect they have their own variant, not the stock tyre. But even that aside, thats the point, a tyre that works well on a sports coupe can be far from ideal on a large exec saloon with a completely different suspension setup.
back to square one.. we can never agree :-\
if a size dont fit , there are alternatives.. you can use smaller size or spacers..
although potenzas have a wide variety, latest models have 2 different class.. for street use and for race use..
adrenaline was the softer one for street use ::)
besides cant predict your tyres conddition.. I recommend sanding its surface with 150 grid if its not too old..
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Yes they where highly recomended by a member here iirc. 010? Noisy harsh and the ones I had, although part worn on a car I bought, had very little grip.
Which just goes to show that one mans grip is another mans sliding around.
These ones had so much rim protection they physically would not fit on the front axle for fouling the shock upright. Although I can't see that being standard tbh. :-\
Personally I also think recommending tyres should be banned ;D . ....unless the owner has owned through out the entire life. It's an easy trap to fall into, as with The Falkens I had. :-[ Tyres can degrade very quickly into something very unpleasant. Comparing through the tyres life at equal stages, as opposed to new tyres compared to the knackered crap that came off.
and I remember you said they are very grippy although being noisy ::)
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...and a very Differant power and brake package that will work the tyre harder and force more heat into it. There by working the tyre ver differently. It may be that the omega can't "activate" them, like Aston undoubtedly will.
I doubt Bridgestone would allow Aston to run tyres with this level of performance cem.
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...and a very Differant power and brake package that will work the tyre harder and force more heat into it. There by working the tyre ver differently. It may be that the omega can't "activate" them, like Aston undoubtedly will.
I doubt Bridgestone would allow Aston to run tyres with this level of performance cem.
although omega is not that weak car, you may have right there Chris.. Turkey and UK have a different weather temperature range.. mostly over 10-15 celcius difference.. this may effect.. with some effort I still think rears can be heated but for fronts you need to use longer braking.. but at that point the question arises why Aston choose it , with that cold weather as they also use street type which requires less heating.. :-\
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back to square one.. we can never agree :-\
I think thats the key thing here, we have wildly differing views on the usefulness of tyre reviews that have not been done on similar cars, with similar suspension setups, and similar style drivers.
I have personal experience of how the same model tyre can vary so amazingly differently on different chassis designs.
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with some effort I still think rears can be heated but for fronts you need to use longer braking..
Sorry to pick up on just one small part of your post, but just wanted to highlight that my driving style puts lots of heat in the fronts, and not much in the rear. Even in Miss Daisy mode - I took Webby The Bear's car for a spin the other day, driving slow as we wre testing MPG readings, and when I got back, the front tyres were warm, rears quite cool.
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ok then, I have a question.. do you believe that ling longs or any avg tire will perform better than potenzas on the omega ?
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and Chris why do you go for Contis generally which is also a test winner ;)
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We will get a softer compound in the uk than Turkey to account for the temp difference though. Tyre makers see to that. By a tyre in Spain and it won't work in the uk. I know this from personal experience, just can't get the heat into them. So they don't work. I realise road compounds are designed to work from cold, they have to, as opposed to track tyres, but the ambiantbtemp isn't there.
Although, from past posts, Turkey get a much wider range of temps than we do. No? I'm not sure the average would be too dis similar...but in any event a tyre purchased In the uk will be designed for uk ;)
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I can get the rear 255 Bridgestone Pretenders to break loose on a straight road when I hit the torque pedal on the German car. :-\ They are standard fit on bmw coupe M Sport (used to be Continental).
Switch off the dsc and you can do predictable power slides. I'm not overly comfortable with them in the wet, but that may be down to my lack of ability.
I'm running GY Eagle F1 Assy 2 on the Omega and am happy with the stopping ability but can't comment on fast cornering as I'm too old for that sort of thing now. ;)
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and Chris why do you for Contis generally which is also a test winner ;)
I chose them for stability, as recomended by Kevin Woods suggestion, after the total nightmare I had with Falkens, as he had them(conti) on his omega, and is intelegent enough to know what works with a good experience of progressive driving.
Would you take a tyre recommendation from Tunnie for instance? No i certainly wouldn't either. ;D
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ok then, I have a question.. do you believe that ling longs or any avg tire will perform better than potenzas on the omega ?
The advantage that 'premium' brands have is less "difference" between dry and wet. The cheap budgets are usually "OK" in the dry, some actually quite good, but some are quite bad in the wet.
However, there are some budgets that do perform quite well. In my experience on Omegas, Kuhmo KU31 embarrasses a lot of premium brands, Bridgestone included. The downside of the KU31 is little feedback to the driver. Trying to think if I've driven an Omega on LingLongs, but I guess they are similar to must of the cheap, hard budgets. In which case, reasonable dry weather performance, woeful wet.
How do Autogrip FS107 perform in your tests - this is a tyre that should be banned. It will kill you. Yet I suspect it does OK in the budget group?
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.........and avoid Bridgestone Potenza. They are shite. :y
They are certainly slippery on the Omega. Added to that, they have a MASSIVE rim protector, which will require a camber compromise if used on the front.
Can't comment on the Omega.......but on a girlie RX-8 they are piss poor. Harsh ride, zero wet weather grip and extremely noisy.
Whatever were Mazda thinking of..... :-[
Wanli Ditchfinders at £50 a corner would be better. :y
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and Chris why do you for Contis generally which is also a test winner ;)
I chose them for stability, as recomended by Kevin Woods suggestion, after the total nightmare I had with Falkens, as he had them(conti) on his omega, and is intelegent enough to know what works with a good experience of progressive driving.
Would you take a tyre recommendation from Tunnie for instance? No i certainly wouldn't either. ;D
I'm sure Tunnie is not happy with this thread.. ;D
I must note potenzas are imported to here without any modification.. directly from Japan..
and also the goodyears.. but from different factories..
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.........and avoid Bridgestone Potenza. They are shite. :y
They are certainly slippery on the Omega. Added to that, they have a MASSIVE rim protector, which will require a camber compromise if used on the front.
Can't comment on the Omega.......but on a girlie RX-8 they are piss poor. Harsh ride, zero wet weather grip and extremely noisy.
Whatever were Mazda thinking of..... :-[
which submodel Opti ?
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.........and avoid Bridgestone Potenza. They are shite. :y
They are certainly slippery on the Omega. Added to that, they have a MASSIVE rim protector, which will require a camber compromise if used on the front.
Can't comment on the Omega.......but on a girlie RX-8 they are piss poor. Harsh ride, zero wet weather grip and extremely noisy.
Whatever were Mazda thinking of..... :-[
which submodel Opti ?
Cem. .......RE040......225/45/18. :y
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and Chris why do you for Contis generally which is also a test winner ;)
I chose them for stability, as recomended by Kevin Woods suggestion, after the total nightmare I had with Falkens, as he had them(conti) on his omega, and is intelegent enough to know what works with a good experience of progressive driving.
Would you take a tyre recommendation from Tunnie for instance? No i certainly wouldn't either. ;D
Either he pushes too hard..........or drives like Miss Daisy. Which is it?. ;)
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and Chris why do you for Contis generally which is also a test winner ;)
I chose them for stability, as recomended by Kevin Woods suggestion, after the total nightmare I had with Falkens, as he had them(conti) on his omega, and is intelegent enough to know what works with a good experience of progressive driving.
Would you take a tyre recommendation from Tunnie for instance? No i certainly wouldn't either. ;D
and Chris why do you for Contis generally which is also a test winner ;)
I chose them for stability, as recomended by Kevin Woods suggestion, after the total nightmare I had with Falkens, as he had them(conti) on his omega, and is intelegent enough to know what works with a good experience of progressive driving.
Would you take a tyre recommendation from Tunnie for instance? No i certainly wouldn't either. ;D
I'm sure Tunnie is not happy with this thread.. ;D
I must note potenzas are imported to here without any modification.. directly from Japan..
and also the goodyears.. but from different factories..
they will be made specifically for uk or Turkey or whatever country at the factory. If indeed they decide to make a different specification. I tyre for ice land will be different to a tyre for Abu dabi.
I would add, that I later found them to have superb grip v wear levels, high lateral grip (corner speed) although not as much as sport maxx tt i suspect and not as planted either. Room for improvement, on noise certainly, but a good all round package with very little tram lining. Which I hate. Although the 010 Audi variant is not as stable as the MO mercededs variant, much to my annoyance. So you see, the Audi MUST have Differant chassis set up to the Mercedes that the tyre was designed for.
I later chose the MO version purely for Rim protection only. They where more stable. As MO needed replacing but weren't available I had to take 010. Less rim protection, less stable in a straight line. :(
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and Chris why do you for Contis generally which is also a test winner ;)
I chose them for stability, as recomended by Kevin Woods suggestion, after the total nightmare I had with Falkens, as he had them(conti) on his omega, and is intelegent enough to know what works with a good experience of progressive driving.
Would you take a tyre recommendation from Tunnie for instance? No i certainly wouldn't either. ;D
I'm sure Tunnie is not happy with this thread.. ;D
I must note potenzas are imported to here without any modification.. directly from Japan..
and also the goodyears.. but from different factories..
well you might if you had his driving style... And therefor wouldn't take a tyre recommendation from Kevin or TB. We see it all the time, "what's the best tyre for the omega?" well that depends how you drive, and therefor, who you ask.
See? :)
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.........and avoid Bridgestone Potenza. They are shite. :y
They are certainly slippery on the Omega. Added to that, they have a MASSIVE rim protector, which will require a camber compromise if used on the front.
Can't comment on the Omega.......but on a girlie RX-8 they are piss poor. Harsh ride, zero wet weather grip and extremely noisy.
Whatever were Mazda thinking of..... :-[
which submodel Opti ?
Cem. .......RE040......225/45/18. :y
never used it.. but checking the net , complaints are mostly towards wet.. however, I never see it as a test winner and it was never in my lists.. probably its the worst of potenza family althought its a factory fit for some models (which means factories buy them cheap)..
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D it's for exactly the reasons you explain, quite rightly, that tyre tests are useless to us. There comes a point where they are irrelevant. IMO this point was passed years ago.
That's not to say the info on tyres inaccurate or wrong in any way.
It's simply too personal a thing, but only after a certain point. TB likes a car that turns in well without under stear. I like a car that doesn't tram line and holds good corner speed. Show me the tests for these ...?
Only first hand experience is relevant after a point in experience is passed.
For your car only then? Yes?
Because you dont know how someone else drives, what state their bushes or suspension are in, heavy lpg tank over the axle or other confounding factors are. Therefore then everyone's opinion is useless to everyone else.
Seems an extremely cynical view to me, particularly as a forum's function is to share views so that others can draw on your experience to help them make an informed decision.
Which is also what these tyre tests try to do. Give you a base to start off. For eg: I buy an Omega, need to get some new tyres. where do I start? I see no harm in using tyre tests as a starting point as long as I dont blindly trust the evidence provided. Subjective owner reviews are less reliable i feel as there are even more confounding factors thrown into the mix.
I understand and agree with your point as well as TB's. Just seems excessively cynical to me. Variability is an inescapable fact of life. Even twins born from the same mother very often have different characterestics. Thus tyres made in the same factory can vary from batch to batch, affecting your perception of the tyre's performance.
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D it's for exactly the reasons you explain, quite rightly, that tyre tests are useless to us. There comes a point where they are irrelevant. IMO this point was passed years ago.
That's not to say the info on tyres inaccurate or wrong in any way.
It's simply too personal a thing, but only after a certain point. TB likes a car that turns in well without under stear. I like a car that doesn't tram line and holds good corner speed. Show me the tests for these ...?
Only first hand experience is relevant after a point in experience is passed.
For your car only then? Yes?
Because you dont know how someone else drives, what state their bushes or suspension are in, heavy lpg tank over the axle or other confounding factors are. Therefore then everyone's opinion is useless to everyone else.
Seems an extremely cynical view to me, particularly as a forum's function is to share views so that others can draw on your experience to help them make an informed decision.
Which is also what these tyre tests try to do. Give you a base to start off. For eg: I buy an Omega, need to get some new tyres. where do I start? I see no harm in using tyre tests as a starting point as long as I dont blindly trust the evidence provided. Subjective owner reviews are less reliable i feel as there are even more confounding factors thrown into the mix.
I understand and agree with your point as well as TB's. Just seems excessively cynical to me. Variability is an inescapable fact of life. Even twins born from the same mother very often have different characterestics. Thus tyres made in the same factory can vary from batch to batch, affecting your perception of the tyre's performance.
Ultimately your exactly right in that we are looking for a level of detail that's available no where else. TB believes my driving style to be similar to his (I think) we both have a saloon with irmscher suspension and LPG tank in the boot. And demand similar grip levels. Let's face it he's not going to ask Tunnie for tyre advice, is he?
There's a feel from a tyre that some drivers never encounter, never even notice. These details and level of attention can't be found in a general tyre test.
ok then, I have a question.. do you believe that ling longs or any avg tire will perform better than potenzas on the omega ?
Nobody is suggesting tyre tests give the wrong info. Merely that the info is based on irrelevant data to omega owners, certainly beyond a cirtain point... Because they are not and can not take into account the omega, and the driving style of the owner.
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and Chris why do you for Contis generally which is also a test winner ;)
I chose them for stability, as recomended by Kevin Woods suggestion, after the total nightmare I had with Falkens, as he had them(conti) on his omega, and is intelegent enough to know what works with a good experience of progressive driving.
Would you take a tyre recommendation from Tunnie for instance? No i certainly wouldn't either. ;D
I'm sure Tunnie is not happy with this thread.. ;D
I must note potenzas are imported to here without any modification.. directly from Japan..
and also the goodyears.. but from different factories..
well you might if you had his driving style... And therefor wouldn't take a tyre recommendation from Kevin or TB. We see it all the time, "what's the best tyre for the omega?" well that depends how you drive, and therefor, who you ask.
See? :)
Chris , if you expect me to accept a non scientific unproven statement against physics laws, you will wait forever..
as I told before tire depends on friction which is independent from both car and the driver..
but of course a driver neglecting wet conditions and lower friction coefficient makes a big difference resulting with death :-\
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and Chris why do you for Contis generally which is also a test winner ;)
I chose them for stability, as recomended by Kevin Woods suggestion, after the total nightmare I had with Falkens, as he had them(conti) on his omega, and is intelegent enough to know what works with a good experience of progressive driving.
Would you take a tyre recommendation from Tunnie for instance? No i certainly wouldn't either. ;D
and Chris why do you for Contis generally which is also a test winner ;)
I chose them for stability, as recomended by Kevin Woods suggestion, after the total nightmare I had with Falkens, as he had them(conti) on his omega, and is intelegent enough to know what works with a good experience of progressive driving.
Would you take a tyre recommendation from Tunnie for instance? No i certainly wouldn't either. ;D
I'm sure Tunnie is not happy with this thread.. ;D
I must note potenzas are imported to here without any modification.. directly from Japan..
and also the goodyears.. but from different factories..
they will be made specifically for uk or Turkey or whatever country at the factory. If indeed they decide to make a different specification. I tyre for ice land will be different to a tyre for Abu dabi.
I would add, that I later found them to have superb grip v wear levels, high lateral grip (corner speed) although not as much as sport maxx tt i suspect and not as planted either. Room for improvement, on noise certainly, but a good all round package with very little tram lining. Which I hate. Although the 010 Audi variant is not as stable as the MO mercededs variant, much to my annoyance. So you see, the Audi MUST have Differant chassis set up to the Mercedes that the tyre was designed for.
I later chose the MO version purely for Rim protection only. They where more stable. As MO needed replacing but weren't available I had to take 010. Less rim protection, less stable in a straight line. :(
But could it be that your suspension has deteriorated/worn or components have changed or not set up properly, that translates to you as a feeling of worse straight line stability.
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D it's for exactly the reasons you explain, quite rightly, that tyre tests are useless to us. There comes a point where they are irrelevant. IMO this point was passed years ago.
That's not to say the info on tyres inaccurate or wrong in any way.
It's simply too personal a thing, but only after a certain point. TB likes a car that turns in well without under stear. I like a car that doesn't tram line and holds good corner speed. Show me the tests for these ...?
Only first hand experience is relevant after a point in experience is passed.
For your car only then? Yes?
Because you dont know how someone else drives, what state their bushes or suspension are in, heavy lpg tank over the axle or other confounding factors are. Therefore then everyone's opinion is useless to everyone else.
Seems an extremely cynical view to me, particularly as a forum's function is to share views so that others can draw on your experience to help them make an informed decision.
Which is also what these tyre tests try to do. Give you a base to start off. For eg: I buy an Omega, need to get some new tyres. where do I start? I see no harm in using tyre tests as a starting point as long as I dont blindly trust the evidence provided. Subjective owner reviews are less reliable i feel as there are even more confounding factors thrown into the mix.
I understand and agree with your point as well as TB's. Just seems excessively cynical to me. Variability is an inescapable fact of life. Even twins born from the same mother very often have different characterestics. Thus tyres made in the same factory can vary from batch to batch, affecting your perception of the tyre's performance.
ok then, I have a question.. do you believe that ling longs or any avg tire will perform better than potenzas on the omega ?
Nobody is suggesting tyre tests give the wrong info. Merely that the info is based on irrelevant data to omega owners, certainly beyond a cartoon point... Because they are not and can not take into account the omega, and the driving style of the owner.
thats it.. :y
but then you mess up again ;D
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D it's for exactly the reasons you explain, quite rightly, that tyre tests are useless to us. There comes a point where they are irrelevant. IMO this point was passed years ago.
That's not to say the info on tyres inaccurate or wrong in any way.
It's simply too personal a thing, but only after a certain point. TB likes a car that turns in well without under stear. I like a car that doesn't tram line and holds good corner speed. Show me the tests for these ...?
Only first hand experience is relevant after a point in experience is passed.
For your car only then? Yes?
Because you dont know how someone else drives, what state their bushes or suspension are in, heavy lpg tank over the axle or other confounding factors are. Therefore then everyone's opinion is useless to everyone else.
Seems an extremely cynical view to me, particularly as a forum's function is to share views so that others can draw on your experience to help them make an informed decision.
Which is also what these tyre tests try to do. Give you a base to start off. For eg: I buy an Omega, need to get some new tyres. where do I start? I see no harm in using tyre tests as a starting point as long as I dont blindly trust the evidence provided. Subjective owner reviews are less reliable i feel as there are even more confounding factors thrown into the mix.
I understand and agree with your point as well as TB's. Just seems excessively cynical to me. Variability is an inescapable fact of life. Even twins born from the same mother very often have different characterestics. Thus tyres made in the same factory can vary from batch to batch, affecting your perception of the tyre's performance.
:y :y :y
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and an important point, Bridgestone potenza is never tuned for Turkey .. I know very well because I had some "close" relation with them in the past .. Disturbed their management continously to import fresh tyres which they refused to do..
buyers here are very very limited as its an expensive tyre and they import potenza in numbers which can fit in a van >:(
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and Chris why do you for Contis generally which is also a test winner ;)
I chose them for stability, as recomended by Kevin Woods suggestion, after the total nightmare I had with Falkens, as he had them(conti) on his omega, and is intelegent enough to know what works with a good experience of progressive driving.
Would you take a tyre recommendation from Tunnie for instance? No i certainly wouldn't either. ;D
I'm sure Tunnie is not happy with this thread.. ;D
I must note potenzas are imported to here without any modification.. directly from Japan..
and also the goodyears.. but from different factories..
well you might if you had his driving style... And therefor wouldn't take a tyre recommendation from Kevin or TB. We see it all the time, "what's the best tyre for the omega?" well that depends how you drive, and therefor, who you ask.
See? :)
Chris , if you expect me to accept a non scientific unproven statement against physics laws, you will wait forever..
as I told before tire depends on friction which is independent from both car and the driver..
but of course a driver neglecting wet conditions and lower friction coefficient makes a big difference resulting with death :-\
quite the opposite cem, we're/I am asking you to look closer, harder, with more intensity and depth to find a tyre that is exactly right for the car, the driver, down to personal taste and the finest detail. ...for exampl.
You need to look at it from the point of view of the consumer, the most fussy demanding awkward bugger you ever met. ;) ;D
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ok then, I have a question.. do you believe that ling longs or any avg tire will perform better than potenzas on the omega ?
The advantage that 'premium' brands have is less "difference" between dry and wet. The cheap budgets are usually "OK" in the dry, some actually quite good, but some are quite bad in the wet.
However, there are some budgets that do perform quite well. In my experience on Omegas, Kuhmo KU31 embarrasses a lot of premium brands, Bridgestone included. The downside of the KU31 is little feedback to the driver. Trying to think if I've driven an Omega on LingLongs, but I guess they are similar to must of the cheap, hard budgets. In which case, reasonable dry weather performance, woeful wet.
How do Autogrip FS107 perform in your tests - this is a tyre that should be banned. It will kill you. Yet I suspect it does OK in the budget group?
Mr Admin, you can be a good lawyer.. but you are not defencing a criminal ? ;D yes or no ?
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ok then, I have a question.. do you believe that ling longs or any avg tire will perform better than potenzas on the omega ?
The advantage that 'premium' brands have is less "difference" between dry and wet. The cheap budgets are usually "OK" in the dry, some actually quite good, but some are quite bad in the wet.
However, there are some budgets that do perform quite well. In my experience on Omegas, Kuhmo KU31 embarrasses a lot of premium brands, Bridgestone included. The downside of the KU31 is little feedback to the driver. Trying to think if I've driven an Omega on LingLongs, but I guess they are similar to must of the cheap, hard budgets. In which case, reasonable dry weather performance, woeful wet.
How do Autogrip FS107 perform in your tests - this is a tyre that should be banned. It will kill you. Yet I suspect it does OK in the budget group?
Mr Admin, you can be a good lawyer.. but you are not defencing a criminal ? ;D yes or no ?
personal experience of a product. Your suggesting every review of any product is always correct in every circumstance ever conceived. This is not possible.
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In effect what we actually want is the equivelant of, for example, an sc3 MO or 010.
That being, a tyre designed exactly for the omega, but with the drivers personal taste in mind. We will never get that, but as we'll be stuck with that expensive tyre choice for at least 10,000 miles, hopefully nearer double that, then IMO we need to leave no stone un turned in finding a tyre we are happy with.
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OK, I can say, categorically, of all the tyres I've driven on in an Omega, and thats an awful lot, not just on my own (which I've had for 9yrs), but many, many, many member's cars, without doubt, the most impressive tyres are the Dunlop Sport Maxx TT.
Most magazine type reviews slate them. Yet virtually all user reviews from owners of larger cars rate them very highly, wet, dry, whatever. So whats different?
Sorry to keep banging on about it, but I wouldn't fit Pirelli P6000 to a wheelbarrow, let alone most cars. Been there, done it, bought the t-shirt, and regretted it. Several times. Yet the P6000 is an absolutely stunning tyre on the Rover 25. That shows that tyres react differently on different chassis. So that shows that generic tyre reviews are invalid unless performed on the same chassis. I have experienced this myself, I know it to be true, and it will take a lot of persuading to convince me otherwise. Dunlop SP3000 was a good, if not too durable, tyre on a leased Rover 400 we had, but is hopeless on an Omega.
The other reason I listen to User Reviews more than "Professional Tests" is you get an understanding over the life of the tyre. Most tyres have a high grip initial phase (which the Americans call Honeymoon Period of the tire tyre). This phase is irrelevent, as it soon wears through. Its probably there for marketting purposes, to make it perfrom better in such daft tests ;)
For info, I would buy Sport Maxx TT again tomorrow, but in order to reduce running costs, I was looking to compromise slightly towards a more durable tyre. Hence looking at SC3.
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ok then, I have a question.. do you believe that ling longs or any avg tire will perform better than potenzas on the omega ?
The advantage that 'premium' brands have is less "difference" between dry and wet. The cheap budgets are usually "OK" in the dry, some actually quite good, but some are quite bad in the wet.
However, there are some budgets that do perform quite well. In my experience on Omegas, Kuhmo KU31 embarrasses a lot of premium brands, Bridgestone included. The downside of the KU31 is little feedback to the driver. Trying to think if I've driven an Omega on LingLongs, but I guess they are similar to must of the cheap, hard budgets. In which case, reasonable dry weather performance, woeful wet.
How do Autogrip FS107 perform in your tests - this is a tyre that should be banned. It will kill you. Yet I suspect it does OK in the budget group?
Mr Admin, you can be a good lawyer.. but you are not defencing a criminal ? ;D yes or no ?
personal experience of a product. Your suggesting every review of any product is always correct in every circumstance ever conceived. This is not possible.
nope.. the tyres frictions will be the same if the road surface is same.. if not (road surface) , it will be proportional with respect to the test list order.. because its measurement.. you dont weigh 150 kgs in Turkey while your are (assume) 90 kg in UK isnt it ?
now let me give detail.. most tests are done on short roads or test/race tracks where roads are fairly better..
why ? because the test makers know that if they make the test on bad roads car suspension system will effect measured meters/feet and timings.. but still the list order wont change..
and for handling.. thats not measurable I'm afraid..
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and Chris why do you for Contis generally which is also a test winner ;)
I chose them for stability, as recomended by Kevin Woods suggestion, after the total nightmare I had with Falkens, as he had them(conti) on his omega, and is intelegent enough to know what works with a good experience of progressive driving.
Would you take a tyre recommendation from Tunnie for instance? No i certainly wouldn't either. ;D
and Chris why do you for Contis generally which is also a test winner ;)
I chose them for stability, as recomended by Kevin Woods suggestion, after the total nightmare I had with Falkens, as he had them(conti) on his omega, and is intelegent enough to know what works with a good experience of progressive driving.
Would you take a tyre recommendation from Tunnie for instance? No i certainly wouldn't either. ;D
I'm sure Tunnie is not happy with this thread.. ;D
I must note potenzas are imported to here without any modification.. directly from Japan..
and also the goodyears.. but from different factories..
they will be made specifically for uk or Turkey or whatever country at the factory. If indeed they decide to make a different specification. I tyre for ice land will be different to a tyre for Abu dabi.
I would add, that I later found them to have superb grip v wear levels, high lateral grip (corner speed) although not as much as sport maxx tt i suspect and not as planted either. Room for improvement, on noise certainly, but a good all round package with very little tram lining. Which I hate. Although the 010 Audi variant is not as stable as the MO mercededs variant, much to my annoyance. So you see, the Audi MUST have Differant chassis set up to the Mercedes that the tyre was designed for.
I later chose the MO version purely for Rim protection only. They where more stable. As MO needed replacing but weren't available I had to take 010. Less rim protection, less stable in a straight line. :(
But could it be that your suspension has deteriorated/worn or components have changed or not set up properly, that translates to you as a feeling of worse straight line stability.
yes its cetainly possible, but...
I drove to Micheldever with worn MO. I visually checked the rearward bush while it was up on jacks,as I always do, and most here know I am obsessed with bush quality and stability.... they are fine, polly fronts fitted.
I left with brand new 010 and it instantly tram lined. Not badly, but noticeably more.
Only the front tyres where replaced.
Now, you tell me.....? :)
Just to add, I intend to jack and check bushes again today, but it's raining. Hence I'm chatting on here. ;)
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Perhaps if you replaced all 4 with the same type it might not have tramlined? Different batches from the same factory can behave differently IME.
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OK, I can say, categorically, of all the tyres I've driven on in an Omega, and thats an awful lot, not just on my own (which I've had for 9yrs), but many, many, many member's cars, without doubt, the most impressive tyres are the Dunlop Sport Maxx TT.
Most magazine type reviews slate them. Yet virtually all user reviews from owners of larger cars rate them very highly, wet, dry, whatever. So whats different?
Sorry to keep banging on about it, but I wouldn't fit Pirelli P6000 to a wheelbarrow, let alone most cars. Been there, done it, bought the t-shirt, and regretted it. Several times. Yet the P6000 is an absolutely stunning tyre on the Rover 25. That shows that tyres react differently on different chassis. So that shows that generic tyre reviews are invalid unless performed on the same chassis. I have experienced this myself, I know it to be true, and it will take a lot of persuading to convince me otherwise. Dunlop SP3000 was a good, if not too durable, tyre on a leased Rover 400 we had, but is hopeless on an Omega.
The other reason I listen to User Reviews more than "Professional Tests" is you get an understanding over the life of the tyre. Most tyres have a high grip initial phase (which the Americans call Honeymoon Period of the tire tyre). This phase is irrelevent, as it soon wears through. Its probably there for marketting purposes, to make it perfrom better in such daft tests ;)
For info, I would buy Sport Maxx TT again tomorrow, but in order to reduce running costs, I was looking to compromise slightly towards a more durable tyre. Hence looking at SC3.
Tests can also be done on old tyres.. however, old tyres subject to many many factors such that you can never equalize their previous heat , sunlight,road surface, pressure factors .. so to keep the variables minimum tests are done with new..
I have never seen tests done with old cars.. :-\
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Perhaps if you replaced all 4 with the same type it might not have tramlined?
Perhaps, or maybe it would be twice as bad. But at least you accept there is a difference. :y
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ok then, I have a question.. do you believe that ling longs or any avg tire will perform better than potenzas on the omega ?
The advantage that 'premium' brands have is less "difference" between dry and wet. The cheap budgets are usually "OK" in the dry, some actually quite good, but some are quite bad in the wet.
However, there are some budgets that do perform quite well. In my experience on Omegas, Kuhmo KU31 embarrasses a lot of premium brands, Bridgestone included. The downside of the KU31 is little feedback to the driver. Trying to think if I've driven an Omega on LingLongs, but I guess they are similar to must of the cheap, hard budgets. In which case, reasonable dry weather performance, woeful wet.
How do Autogrip FS107 perform in your tests - this is a tyre that should be banned. It will kill you. Yet I suspect it does OK in the budget group?
Mr Admin, you can be a good lawyer.. but you are not defencing a criminal ? ;D yes or no ?
personal experience of a product. Your suggesting every review of any product is always correct in every circumstance ever conceived. This is not possible.
nope.. the tyres frictions will be the same if the road surface is same.. if not (road surface) , it will be proportional with respect to the test list order.. because its measurement.. you dont weigh 150 kgs in Turkey while your are (assume) 90 kg in UK isnt it ?
now let me give detail.. most tests are done on short roads or test/race tracks where roads are fairly better..
why ? because the test makers know that if they make the test on bad roads car suspension system will effect measured meters/feet and timings.. but still the list order wont change..
and for handling.. thats not measurable I'm afraid..
;D your absolutely right, the test is perfectly accurate. But who cares, when parameters of the test ( ie the car, and to lesser extent the driver) are wrong.
And yes finally, handling / feel is not measurable. There for the test data is not relevant here.
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OK, I can say, categorically, of all the tyres I've driven on in an Omega, and thats an awful lot, not just on my own (which I've had for 9yrs), but many, many, many member's cars, without doubt, the most impressive tyres are the Dunlop Sport Maxx TT.
Most magazine type reviews slate them. Yet virtually all user reviews from owners of larger cars rate them very highly, wet, dry, whatever. So whats different?
Sorry to keep banging on about it, but I wouldn't fit Pirelli P6000 to a wheelbarrow, let alone most cars. Been there, done it, bought the t-shirt, and regretted it. Several times. Yet the P6000 is an absolutely stunning tyre on the Rover 25. That shows that tyres react differently on different chassis. So that shows that generic tyre reviews are invalid unless performed on the same chassis. I have experienced this myself, I know it to be true, and it will take a lot of persuading to convince me otherwise. Dunlop SP3000 was a good, if not too durable, tyre on a leased Rover 400 we had, but is hopeless on an Omega.
The other reason I listen to User Reviews more than "Professional Tests" is you get an understanding over the life of the tyre. Most tyres have a high grip initial phase (which the Americans call Honeymoon Period of the tire tyre). This phase is irrelevent, as it soon wears through. Its probably there for marketting purposes, to make it perfrom better in such daft tests ;)
For info, I would buy Sport Maxx TT again tomorrow, but in order to reduce running costs, I was looking to compromise slightly towards a more durable tyre. Hence looking at SC3.
Tests can also be done on old tyres.. however, old tyres subject to many many factors such that you can never equalize their previous heat , sunlight,road surface, pressure factors .. so to keep the variables minimum tests are done with new..
I have never seen tests done with old cars.. :-\
So performed on the artificial initial compound, not the bulk of the tyre.
No wonder that Michelin do so well in these tests ;)
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OK guys, can you all not see it? We are a club of Omega Owners, some 10,000 strong. Can you not see an ideal opportunity here to collate 'experiences' (NOT figures) over the life of a tyre?
So rather than constantly disagreeing - we will never agree on the usefulness of tyre tests performed on different chassis - lets agree on what our findings are with various tyres on Omegas
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OK, I can say, categorically, of all the tyres I've driven on in an Omega, and thats an awful lot, not just on my own (which I've had for 9yrs), but many, many, many member's cars, without doubt, the most impressive tyres are the Dunlop Sport Maxx TT.
Most magazine type reviews slate them. Yet virtually all user reviews from owners of larger cars rate them very highly, wet, dry, whatever. So whats different?
Sorry to keep banging on about it, but I wouldn't fit Pirelli P6000 to a wheelbarrow, let alone most cars. Been there, done it, bought the t-shirt, and regretted it. Several times. Yet the P6000 is an absolutely stunning tyre on the Rover 25. That shows that tyres react differently on different chassis. So that shows that generic tyre reviews are invalid unless performed on the same chassis. I have experienced this myself, I know it to be true, and it will take a lot of persuading to convince me otherwise. Dunlop SP3000 was a good, if not too durable, tyre on a leased Rover 400 we had, but is hopeless on an Omega.
The other reason I listen to User Reviews more than "Professional Tests" is you get an understanding over the life of the tyre. Most tyres have a high grip initial phase (which the Americans call Honeymoon Period of the tire tyre). This phase is irrelevent, as it soon wears through. Its probably there for marketting purposes, to make it perfrom better in such daft tests ;)
For info, I would buy Sport Maxx TT again tomorrow, but in order to reduce running costs, I was looking to compromise slightly towards a more durable tyre. Hence looking at SC3.
There you go. You seem to be happy to accept subjective non-scientific good reviews from other owners of large cars (not necessarily omega's?), but not controlled tests? For me these subjective reviews are generally useless except as you said for tyre life expectancy results. But that info varies unless you limit yourself to the UK reviews.
But I agree most commercial tests are on lighter FWD cars and therefore not applicable to the Omega per se. I dont expect to learn handling characterestics out of these tests. But I can interpret stopping distances, aquaplaning and noise levels as well as some of them provide wear data as well.
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OK, I can say, categorically, of all the tyres I've driven on in an Omega, and thats an awful lot, not just on my own (which I've had for 9yrs), but many, many, many member's cars, without doubt, the most impressive tyres are the Dunlop Sport Maxx TT.
Most magazine type reviews slate them. Yet virtually all user reviews from owners of larger cars rate them very highly, wet, dry, whatever. So whats different?
Sorry to keep banging on about it, but I wouldn't fit Pirelli P6000 to a wheelbarrow, let alone most cars. Been there, done it, bought the t-shirt, and regretted it. Several times. Yet the P6000 is an absolutely stunning tyre on the Rover 25. That shows that tyres react differently on different chassis. So that shows that generic tyre reviews are invalid unless performed on the same chassis. I have experienced this myself, I know it to be true, and it will take a lot of persuading to convince me otherwise. Dunlop SP3000 was a good, if not too durable, tyre on a leased Rover 400 we had, but is hopeless on an Omega.
The other reason I listen to User Reviews more than "Professional Tests" is you get an understanding over the life of the tyre. Most tyres have a high grip initial phase (which the Americans call Honeymoon Period of the tire tyre). This phase is irrelevent, as it soon wears through. Its probably there for marketting purposes, to make it perfrom better in such daft tests ;)
For info, I would buy Sport Maxx TT again tomorrow, but in order to reduce running costs, I was looking to compromise slightly towards a more durable tyre. Hence looking at SC3.
Tests can also be done on old tyres.. however, old tyres subject to many many factors such that you can never equalize their previous heat , sunlight,road surface, pressure factors .. so to keep the variables minimum tests are done with new..
I have never seen tests done with old cars.. :-\
So performed on the artificial initial compound, not the bulk of the tyre.
No wonder that Michelin do so well in these tests ;)
in the last tests Micheline dont do so well (especially dry)..so I buy goodyears..
as far as I know they prepare only one compound as its filled in hot liquid form ::)
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OK guys, can you all not see it? We are a club of Omega Owners, some 10,000 strong. Can you not see an ideal opportunity here to collate 'experiences' (NOT figures) over the life of a tyre?
So rather than constantly disagreeing - we will never agree on the usefulness of tyre tests performed on different chassis - lets agree on what our findings are with various tyres on Omegas
Therein lies the problem. I certainly wont believe Tunnie's recommendations. I love the PS3, which you hate, so you wont believe my recommenations. Chris likes the SC3, but only the MO version, which is 91 rated and under specced for the Omega. CEM agrees with me, but others disagree. I suspect that collating thread will be the longest running debate ever. ;D
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There you go. You seem to be happy to accept subjective non-scientific good reviews from other owners of large cars (not necessarily omega's?), but not controlled tests?
Sorry, my point obviously didn't come over too well... ...its the bit after your quote - whats different - that was the bit I was trying to stress. Clearly the mag tests do not align with owner's experiences. Hardly surprising given the narrow minded nature of the tests. In fact, if tested on brand new tyres, the tests themselves - any parameter - are invalid, as its on the artificially soft part of the compound, not the compound that the tyre uses in life.
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OK guys, can you all not see it? We are a club of Omega Owners, some 10,000 strong. Can you not see an ideal opportunity here to collate 'experiences' (NOT figures) over the life of a tyre?
So rather than constantly disagreeing - we will never agree on the usefulness of tyre tests performed on different chassis - lets agree on what our findings are with various tyres on Omegas
Therein lies the problem. I certainly wont believe Tunnie's recommendations. I love the PS3, which you hate, so you wont believe my recommenations. Chris likes the SC3, but only the MO version, which is 91 rated and under specced for the Omega. CEM agrees with me, but others disagree. I suspect that collating thread will be the longest running debate ever. ;D
Driver style has to be a part of it, along with expectations for the tyre. Either way, its going to be more useful than some shitbox Golf test ;)
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OK, I can say, categorically, of all the tyres I've driven on in an Omega, and thats an awful lot, not just on my own (which I've had for 9yrs), but many, many, many member's cars, without doubt, the most impressive tyres are the Dunlop Sport Maxx TT.
Most magazine type reviews slate them. Yet virtually all user reviews from owners of larger cars rate them very highly, wet, dry, whatever. So whats different?
Sorry to keep banging on about it, but I wouldn't fit Pirelli P6000 to a wheelbarrow, let alone most cars. Been there, done it, bought the t-shirt, and regretted it. Several times. Yet the P6000 is an absolutely stunning tyre on the Rover 25. That shows that tyres react differently on different chassis. So that shows that generic tyre reviews are invalid unless performed on the same chassis. I have experienced this myself, I know it to be true, and it will take a lot of persuading to convince me otherwise. Dunlop SP3000 was a good, if not too durable, tyre on a leased Rover 400 we had, but is hopeless on an Omega.
The other reason I listen to User Reviews more than "Professional Tests" is you get an understanding over the life of the tyre. Most tyres have a high grip initial phase (which the Americans call Honeymoon Period of the tire tyre). This phase is irrelevent, as it soon wears through. Its probably there for marketting purposes, to make it perfrom better in such daft tests ;)
For info, I would buy Sport Maxx TT again tomorrow, but in order to reduce running costs, I was looking to compromise slightly towards a more durable tyre. Hence looking at SC3.
Tests can also be done on old tyres.. however, old tyres subject to many many factors such that you can never equalize their previous heat , sunlight,road surface, pressure factors .. so to keep the variables minimum tests are done with new..
I have never seen tests done with old cars.. :-\
So performed on the artificial initial compound, not the bulk of the tyre.
No wonder that Michelin do so well in these tests ;)
in the last tests Micheline dont do so well (especially dry)..so I buy goodyears..
as far as I know they prepare only one compound as its filled in hot liquid form ::)
Thats a new brand CEM, never heard of it? Is it a Turkey special? ;)
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OK guys, can you all not see it? We are a club of Omega Owners, some 10,000 strong. Can you not see an ideal opportunity here to collate 'experiences' (NOT figures) over the life of a tyre?
So rather than constantly disagreeing - we will never agree on the usefulness of tyre tests performed on different chassis - lets agree on what our findings are with various tyres on Omegas
Therein lies the problem. I certainly wont believe Tunnie's recommendations. I love the PS3, which you hate, so you wont believe my recommenations. Chris likes the SC3, but only the MO version, which is 91 rated and under specced for the Omega. CEM agrees with me, but others disagree. I suspect that collating thread will be the longest running debate ever. ;D
yep.. if other members take part , it would run forever.. ;D
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in the last tests Micheline dont do so well (especially dry)..so I buy goodyears..
as far as I know they prepare only one compound as its filled in hot liquid form ::)
I was in a member's car with GY Asym F1's on the back the other day - he sent me out in his car, and I was told to "enjoy myself" by said member. I think tunnie saw the rubber it left on the roundabouts ::). Needless to say, the F1 is not, based on a 4 or 5 mile run, on my list of tyres to buy next week. Yet does well in invalid tests ;)
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OK guys, can you all not see it? We are a club of Omega Owners, some 10,000 strong. Can you not see an ideal opportunity here to collate 'experiences' (NOT figures) over the life of a tyre?
So rather than constantly disagreeing - we will never agree on the usefulness of tyre tests performed on different chassis - lets agree on what our findings are with various tyres on Omegas
Therein lies the problem. I certainly wont believe Tunnie's recommendations. I love the PS3, which you hate, so you wont believe my recommenations. Chris likes the SC3, but only the MO version, which is 91 rated and under specced for the Omega. CEM agrees with me, but others disagree. I suspect that collating thread will be the longest running debate ever. ;D
Driver style has to be a part of it, along with expectations for the tyre. Either way, its going to be more useful than some shitbox Golf test ;)
True, but Tunnie thinks he is a F1 driver, doesnt he? ;)
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in the last tests Micheline dont do so well (especially dry)..so I buy goodyears..
as far as I know they prepare only one compound as its filled in hot liquid form ::)
I was in a member's car with GY Asym F1's on the back the other day - he sent me out in his car, and I was told to "enjoy myself" by said member. I think tunnie saw the rubber it left on the roundabouts ::). Needless to say, the F1 is not, based on a 4 or 5 mile run, on my list of tyres to buy next week. Yet does well in invalid tests ;)
I would never assess a car that has different tyres on the 2 axles. The only way to truly assess a tyre would be new tyres all around. Let them scrub the coating/new layer/slippery bit off and then see how they perform.
This brings me back to subjective reviews. People are happy to slag off tyres when they are only doing 50% of the work. For all i know the other pair could be Autogrip/Wanli/Falken tyres? Not saying that was the case with TB.
The number of times I see people wanting to buy part worns or mix and match tyres, I am not sure the collating idea will work. The Omega is a cheap car and people dont want to spend £130 per tyre (*4) on expensive rubber, when the car probably costs less. Then factor in the worn suspension components that most 9+ year old cars would have and it becomes a minefield. I can see a review: "Those Sport Maxx's TB recommended are shite, but let me just leave out the fact that my springs are broken and that my car has not had geo setup done in the last 9 years".
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in the last tests Micheline dont do so well (especially dry)..so I buy goodyears..
as far as I know they prepare only one compound as its filled in hot liquid form ::)
I was in a member's car with GY Asym F1's on the back the other day - he sent me out in his car, and I was told to "enjoy myself" by said member. I think tunnie saw the rubber it left on the roundabouts ::) . Needless to say, the F1 is not, based on a 4 or 5 mile run, on my list of tyres to buy next week. Yet does well in invalid tests ;)
a good tire must sacrifice itself when things get hard instead of you..
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in the last tests Micheline dont do so well (especially dry)..so I buy goodyears..
as far as I know they prepare only one compound as its filled in hot liquid form ::)
I was in a member's car with GY Asym F1's on the back the other day - he sent me out in his car, and I was told to "enjoy myself" by said member. I think tunnie saw the rubber it left on the roundabouts ::) . Needless to say, the F1 is not, based on a 4 or 5 mile run, on my list of tyres to buy next week. Yet does well in invalid tests ;)
I would never assess a car that has different tyres on the 2 axles. The only way to truly assess a tyre would be new tyres all around. Let them scrub the coating/new layer/slippery bit off and then se how they perform.
yep..
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Let them scrub the coating/new layer/slippery bit off and then se how they perform.
So, these test on brand new tyres are pointless then ::)
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I would never assess a car that has different tyres on the 2 axles.
So cem's "a coeffient of friction is a set, carved in stone constant" is not valid then? ::)
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I would never assess a car that has different tyres on the 2 axles.
So cem's "a coeffient of friction is a set, carved in stone constant" is not valid then? ::)
its valid.. but using different friction sets on rear and front is :-X
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Let them scrub the coating/new layer/slippery bit off and then se how they perform.
So, these test on brand new tyres are pointless then ::)
it means if the owner always purchases used tyres, will never get the first few months performance..
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Ok allow me...
I have only ever had four different tyres on my Omega, (3.2 Estate with SL and used as a taxi),so in no particular order...
1. Goodyear NCTs, 225/55/16. Predictable wet or dry, but quite soft, lasted 10-12k, £200 per pair iirc. :y
2. Durun 225/55/16 97W XL. Crap, wet or dry, lasted 3k, but front geometry was out, £140 per pair. :-X
3. Autogrip F107s 225/55/16 97W XL. Ok in dry, crap in damp, deadly in wet, 10k+ v.durable if car set up properly, £140 per pair. :(
4. Runway Enduro 916+ 225/55/16 97W XL. Predictable wet or dry, proved good on snow as well. 20k if car set up properly, £140 per pair. :y :y
I've a set of MV6 wheels being refurbished, and have ordered Runway Enduro 916+ 235/45/17 95W for them. Can't comment yet, but they are £148 per pair. The same pattern is also available in 235/40/18, and will try them later if the 17"s prove as good (for me) as the 16"s.
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this link gives thread depth vs stopping distance .. ( I hope you accept this organization valid) ::)
http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/adviceandinformation/vehiclesafety/tyresafety/tread-depth.aspx (http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/adviceandinformation/vehiclesafety/tyresafety/tread-depth.aspx)
so trying to get idea with old tyres , briefly is not a good idea.. ;D
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Let them scrub the coating/new layer/slippery bit off and then se how they perform.
So, these test on brand new tyres are pointless then ::)
The Conti/Bridgestone test site runs them for a 1000 miles before testing them, from memory?
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I would never assess a car that has different tyres on the 2 axles.
So cem's "a coeffient of friction is a set, carved in stone constant" is not valid then? ::)
its valid.. but using different friction sets on rear and front is :-X
not ideal in this instance, but circumstances dictate and other compromises come into it. Much like life, not a test. ;)
Will nobody accept a tyre handles differently on a Differant chassis?
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I would never assess a car that has different tyres on the 2 axles.
So cem's "a coeffient of friction is a set, carved in stone constant" is not valid then? ::)
its valid.. but using different friction sets on rear and front is :-X
not ideal in this instance, but circumstances dictate and other compromises come into it. Much like life, not a test. ;)
Will nobody accept a tyre handles differently on a Differant chassis?
did falkens lead you to this idea? (sorry for mentioning ;D )
never trust bmw owners ;D :P
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Ok allow me...
I have only ever had four different tyres on my Omega, (3.2 Estate with SL and used as a taxi),so in no particular order...
1. Goodyear NCTs, 225/55/16. Predictable wet or dry, but quite soft, lasted 10-12k, £200 per pair iirc. :y
2. Durun 225/55/16 97W XL. Crap, wet or dry, lasted 3k, but front geometry was out, £140 per pair. :-X
3. Autogrip F107s 225/55/16 97W XL. Ok in dry, crap in damp, deadly in wet, 10k+ v.durable if car set up properly, £140 per pair. :(
4. Runway Enduro 916+ 225/55/16 97W XL. Predictable wet or dry, proved good on snow as well. 20k if car set up properly, £140 per pair. :y :y
I've a set of MV6 wheels being refurbished, and have ordered Runway Enduro 916+ 235/45/17 95W for them. Can't comment yet, but they are £148 per pair. The same pattern is also available in 235/40/18, and will try them later if the 17"s prove as good (for me) as the 16"s.
Again an interesting subjective assessment. For me if a pair of tyres seemed deadly(after giving it the benefit of scrub in), they would be off my car at the next possible opportunity. Not on for 10k. It doesnt make sense to me? And therefore the above review to me is of little benefit/help! Someone who would run a deadly pair of tyres for 10k isnt me and therefore difficult to correlate with. At least he was honest about it. There are folk who may not disclose things like this in a subjective review. No offence intended to taxi al.
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I would never assess a car that has different tyres on the 2 axles.
So cem's "a coeffient of friction is a set, carved in stone constant" is not valid then? ::)
its valid.. but using different friction sets on rear and front is :-X
not ideal in this instance, but circumstances dictate and other compromises come into it. Much like life, not a test. ;)
Will nobody accept a tyre handles differently on a Differant chassis?
did falkens lead you to this idea? (sorry for mentioning ;D )
never trust bmw owners ;D :P
...and also my tires will always be different from front to rear, as the rear wheels are 265 wide, with 235 on the front. :)
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I would never assess a car that has different tyres on the 2 axles.
So cem's "a coeffient of friction is a set, carved in stone constant" is not valid then? ::)
its valid.. but using different friction sets on rear and front is :-X
not ideal in this instance, but circumstances dictate and other compromises come into it. Much like life, not a test. ;)
Will nobody accept a tyre handles differently on a Differant chassis?
did falkens lead you to this idea? (sorry for mentioning ;D )
never trust bmw owners ;D :P
...and also my tires will always be different from front to rear, as the rear wheels are 265 wide, with 235 on the front. :)
thats logical :y
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I would never assess a car that has different tyres on the 2 axles.
So cem's "a coeffient of friction is a set, carved in stone constant" is not valid then? ::)
its valid.. but using different friction sets on rear and front is :-X
not ideal in this instance, but circumstances dictate and other compromises come into it. Much like life, not a test. ;)
Will nobody accept a tyre handles differently on a Differant chassis?
did falkens lead you to this idea? (sorry for mentioning ;D )
never trust bmw owners ;D :P
...and also my tires will always be different from front to rear, as the rear wheels are 265 wide, with 235 on the front. :)
thats logical :y
But you haven't answered my question. Do you not accept a tyre will handle differently on a different chassis?
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Surely that's a given ::)
As an example, had a Mk2 2.8i Granada with TRX wheels ran beautifully on Avons, tried Avons on my first Omega, and they were rubbish :-\ ok I can't recall which range of tyre that either were, and the Granada tyres were narrower, 195? against 225s... :-\
None taken D :y, the Autogrips are absolutely not my first choice, I've probably bought 15-20 sets of tyres in the last 3 years, only three have been Autogrips. They make a useful spare because they are unidirectional, whereas the Runways are sided. If you are aware of a tyres short comings then you can drive accordingly :y what maskes such things dangerous is the first time you become aware of a problem might be your last. Also 10k for me can be as little as 6 weeks... My local tyre supplier generally stock the Runways in this size as their preferred choice for budget tyre, but on occaision they've only had the Autogrips on the shelf so wherever possible I ring the day before to pre order. Branded tyres generally have to be preordered.
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I would never assess a car that has different tyres on the 2 axles.
So cem's "a coeffient of friction is a set, carved in stone constant" is not valid then? ::)
its valid.. but using different friction sets on rear and front is :-X
not ideal in this instance, but circumstances dictate and other compromises come into it. Much like life, not a test. ;)
Will nobody accept a tyre handles differently on a Differant chassis?
did falkens lead you to this idea? (sorry for mentioning ;D )
never trust bmw owners ;D :P
...and also my tires will always be different from front to rear, as the rear wheels are 265 wide, with 235 on the front. :)
thats logical :y
But you haven't answered my question. Do you not accept a tyre will handle differently on a different chassis?
a different chasis will effect friction if it changes the surface area of tyre touching asphalt by suspension..
by default, you expect it to be unchanged.. but my experiences showed me that old cars have serious deviations.. :-\
plus we are generally talking about normal/good road conditions.. if road is bumpy and suspension system is unhealthy you will get nearly 0 friction which will cancel a good tyres properties.. :-\
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They have to, or all tyres would handle be exactly the same, and all cars would handle exactly the same. This is clearly not the case. Therefor a tyre test on a car other than an omega is not relevant.
But only not relevant beyond the parameters of that particular test.
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Absolutely cem. Wim have a computer file full of different set up stats for each model ever made. They are very different.
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and we must not neglect correct pressure setting..
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Absolutely cem. Wim have a computer file full of different set up stats for each model ever made. They are very different.
same deviations apply to other tyres also Chris ::)
edit : so losses or gains will be proportional or similiar on friction
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and we must not neglect correct pressure setting..
Of course. A million variables a test strives to remove. I'm sure TB will accept the perfect accuracy of any test. But as said nobody is concerned with the accuracy of a test in a golf or Merc, that has a completely different set up to an omega.
For example castor angle on some Mercs is approaching 11degrees, which is enormous and gives very lazy stable steering, where as omega has 5degrees. Much more agile.
While that doesn't change the properties of a tyre, it does change the result of the test bed. That being the car. A tyre is nothing without the car. Be it a shite BMW or otherwise ;)
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Absolutely cem. Wim have a computer file full of different set up stats for each model ever made. They are very different.
same deviations apply to other tyres also Chris ::)
edit : so losses or gains will be proportional or similiar on friction
yes and the test will reflect that. But beyond that, we need the test to be done on an omega which is actually what we are doing here, of sorts. ;D
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and we must not neglect correct pressure setting..
Of course. A million variables a test strives to remove. I'm sure TB will accept the perfect accuracy of any test. But as said nobody is concerned with the accuracy of a test in a golf or Merc, that has a completely different set up to an omega.
For example castor angle on some Mercs is approaching 11degrees, which is enormous and gives very lazy stable steering, where as omega has 5degrees. Much more agile.
While that doesn't change the properties of a tyre, it does change the result of the test bed. That being the car. A tyre is nothing without the car. Be it a shite BMW or otherwise ;)
thats a good one Chris.. Castor angels will change the surface area.. :y
but as I said all brands you use will loose surface area of touch so all will be having loss of grip :)
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Absolutely cem. Wim have a computer file full of different set up stats for each model ever made. They are very different.
same deviations apply to other tyres also Chris ::)
edit : so losses or gains will be proportional or similiar on friction
yes and the test will reflect that. But beyond that, we need the test to be done on an omega which is actually what we are doing here, of sorts. ;D
yep.. but thats not science.. you have to give measurable units.. ;D
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and we must not neglect correct pressure setting..
Of course. A million variables a test strives to remove. I'm sure TB will accept the perfect accuracy of any test. But as said nobody is concerned with the accuracy of a test in a golf or Merc, that has a completely different set up to an omega.
For example castor angle on some Mercs is approaching 11degrees, which is enormous and gives very lazy stable steering, where as omega has 5degrees. Much more agile.
While that doesn't change the properties of a tyre, it does change the result of the test bed. That being the car. A tyre is nothing without the car. Be it a shite BMW or otherwise ;)
thats a good one Chris.. Castor angels will change the surface area.. :y
but as I said all brands you use will loose surface area of touch so all will be having loss of grip :)
Good, so you accept different results on another car? That's all we're talking about really.
Further to that, we must then admit that a certain tyre will suit another car(and driver) better. Add in the human element and we then get another preference to meet in our tyre choice that a test can't replicate, again.
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and we must not neglect correct pressure setting..
Of course. A million variables a test strives to remove. I'm sure TB will accept the perfect accuracy of any test. But as said nobody is concerned with the accuracy of a test in a golf or Merc, that has a completely different set up to an omega.
For example castor angle on some Mercs is approaching 11degrees, which is enormous and gives very lazy stable steering, where as omega has 5degrees. Much more agile.
While that doesn't change the properties of a tyre, it does change the result of the test bed. That being the car. A tyre is nothing without the car. Be it a shite BMW or otherwise ;)
thats a good one Chris.. Castor angels will change the surface area.. :y
but as I said all brands you use will loose surface area of touch so all will be having loss of grip :)
Good, so you accept different results on another car? That's all we're talking about really.
Further to that, we must then admit that a certain tyre will suit another car(and driver) better. Add in the human element and we then get another preference to meet in our tyre choice that a test can't replicate, again.
Chris you are British.. I cant race on words with you.. but you know that the meaning of different and proportional are different things :y
proportional means test order wont change ;D
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Absolutely cem. Wim have a computer file full of different set up stats for each model ever made. They are very different.
same deviations apply to other tyres also Chris ::)
edit : so losses or gains will be proportional or similiar on friction
yes and the test will reflect that. But beyond that, we need the test to be done on an omega which is actually what we are doing here, of sorts. ;D
yep.. but thats not science.. you have to give measurable units.. ;D
yes hence i said "of sorts" ;D
I am sure you may remember, I have suggested several times, that we as a car club have an ideal opportunity to test( I think I actually said review, which on today's evidence won't work either) tyres. Too many resources needed though. ;)
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and we must not neglect correct pressure setting..
Of course. A million variables a test strives to remove. I'm sure TB will accept the perfect accuracy of any test. But as said nobody is concerned with the accuracy of a test in a golf or Merc, that has a completely different set up to an omega.
For example castor angle on some Mercs is approaching 11degrees, which is enormous and gives very lazy stable steering, where as omega has 5degrees. Much more agile.
While that doesn't change the properties of a tyre, it does change the result of the test bed. That being the car. A tyre is nothing without the car. Be it a shite BMW or otherwise ;)
thats a good one Chris.. Castor angels will change the surface area.. :y
but as I said all brands you use will loose surface area of touch so all will be having loss of grip :)
Good, so you accept different results on another car? That's all we're talking about really.
Further to that, we must then admit that a certain tyre will suit another car(and driver) better. Add in the human element and we then get another preference to meet in our tyre choice that a test can't replicate, again.
Chris you are British.. I cant race on words with you.. but you know that the meaning of different and proportional are different things :y
proportional means test order wont change ;D
it will on an omega, if compared to, for example, a ford fiesta. Grip level of the specific tyre and it's properties as it sits in the shelf are set, obviously. But without the car it's useless. But any car will use that tyre a different way.
We are talking about matching the best tyre to an omega. For an omega. And only an omega.
Do one test in a fiesta.
Do one test on an omega.
You will get a different order.
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and we must not neglect correct pressure setting..
Of course. A million variables a test strives to remove. I'm sure TB will accept the perfect accuracy of any test. But as said nobody is concerned with the accuracy of a test in a golf or Merc, that has a completely different set up to an omega.
For example castor angle on some Mercs is approaching 11degrees, which is enormous and gives very lazy stable steering, where as omega has 5degrees. Much more agile.
While that doesn't change the properties of a tyre, it does change the result of the test bed. That being the car. A tyre is nothing without the car. Be it a shite BMW or otherwise ;)
thats a good one Chris.. Castor angels will change the surface area.. :y
but as I said all brands you use will loose surface area of touch so all will be having loss of grip :)
Good, so you accept different results on another car? That's all we're talking about really.
Further to that, we must then admit that a certain tyre will suit another car(and driver) better. Add in the human element and we then get another preference to meet in our tyre choice that a test can't replicate, again.
Chris you are British.. I cant race on words with you.. but you know that the meaning of different and proportional are different things :y
proportional means test order wont change ;D
it will on an omega, if compared to, for example, a ford fiesta. Grip level of the specific tyre and it's properties as it sits in the shelf are set, obviously. But without the car it's useless. But any car will use that tyre a different way.
We are talking about matching the best tyre to an omega. For an omega. And only an omega.
Do one test in a fiesta.
Do one test on an omega.
You will get a different order.
nope..
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unless you add driver opinions which are not measurable..
thats a trick where magazines used to change the order as they wish..
I only look measures.. if they dont give, I skip the results..
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OK guys, can you all not see it? We are a club of Omega Owners, some 10,000 strong. Can you not see an ideal opportunity here to collate 'experiences' (NOT figures) over the life of a tyre?
So rather than constantly disagreeing - we will never agree on the usefulness of tyre tests performed on different chassis - lets agree on what our findings are with various tyres on Omegas
Therein lies the problem. I certainly wont believe Tunnie's recommendations. I love the PS3, which you hate, so you wont believe my recommenations. Chris likes the SC3, but only the MO version, which is 91 rated and under specced for the Omega. CEM agrees with me, but others disagree. I suspect that collating thread will be the longest running debate ever. ;D
Within the groups of, excuse the non pc terms, but fast, medium slow. You'll receive more relevant recommendations though.
Hence ask a similar minded driver, and know your own mind as a driver, as to what tyres are needed.
Fact is Tunnies tyres are perfect for him. Ask him what tyres are he uses and he'll happily tell you. The error then is, assuming he drives the same way.
Obviously there's no point Tunnie buying sport maxx tt from TB's recommendation either.
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and we must not neglect correct pressure setting..
Of course. A million variables a test strives to remove. I'm sure TB will accept the perfect accuracy of any test. But as said nobody is concerned with the accuracy of a test in a golf or Merc, that has a completely different set up to an omega.
For example castor angle on some Mercs is approaching 11degrees, which is enormous and gives very lazy stable steering, where as omega has 5degrees. Much more agile.
While that doesn't change the properties of a tyre, it does change the result of the test bed. That being the car. A tyre is nothing without the car. Be it a shite BMW or otherwise ;)
thats a good one Chris.. Castor angels will change the surface area.. :y
but as I said all brands you use will loose surface area of touch so all will be having loss of grip :)
Good, so you accept different results on another car? That's all we're talking about really.
Further to that, we must then admit that a certain tyre will suit another car(and driver) better. Add in the human element and we then get another preference to meet in our tyre choice that a test can't replicate, again.
Chris you are British.. I cant race on words with you.. but you know that the meaning of different and proportional are different things :y
proportional means test order wont change ;D
it will on an omega, if compared to, for example, a ford fiesta. Grip level of the specific tyre and it's properties as it sits in the shelf are set, obviously. But without the car it's useless. But any car will use that tyre a different way.
We are talking about matching the best tyre to an omega. For an omega. And only an omega.
Do one test in a fiesta.
Do one test on an omega.
You will get a different order.
nope..
Sorry, incorrect.
I have already said my piece on P6000, which I've used on multiple cars. I have also used GY NCT on different cars, and the results are the complete opoosite of the P6000.
The P6000 was crap on the Rover GSi, the NCT was quite good. The P6000 was awesome on the Rover 25 and the NCT bad enough that even Mrs TB moaned about it. And she's a girl!
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Fact is Tunnies tyres are perfect for him. Ask him what tyres are he uses and he'll happily tell you. The error then is, assuming he drives the same way.
Obviously there's no point Tunnie buying sport maxx tt from TB's recommendation either.
Indeed, our very own tunnie, bless him, demands tyres that are black and round, and made of hard plastic. Grip is of minimal importance to him - he will openly admit that - tyre life (from a running cost PoV) is absolutely his top priority.
I hate driving his cars, I struggle with his cars.
Likewise, although he probably doesn't have issues with driving my cars, he would hate the tyres' running costs.
He currently has Nexen N6000 on his 3.2. To him, I suspect they are every bit as grippy as a trackday slick. Having just binned a N6000, I know they are as good as most budgets, but no better. On an Omega anyway. Who knows how good they are on a small FWD shitbox.
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and we must not neglect correct pressure setting..
Of course. A million variables a test strives to remove. I'm sure TB will accept the perfect accuracy of any test. But as said nobody is concerned with the accuracy of a test in a golf or Merc, that has a completely different set up to an omega.
For example castor angle on some Mercs is approaching 11degrees, which is enormous and gives very lazy stable steering, where as omega has 5degrees. Much more agile.
While that doesn't change the properties of a tyre, it does change the result of the test bed. That being the car. A tyre is nothing without the car. Be it a shite BMW or otherwise ;)
thats a good one Chris.. Castor angels will change the surface area.. :y
but as I said all brands you use will loose surface area of touch so all will be having loss of grip :)
Good, so you accept different results on another car? That's all we're talking about really.
Further to that, we must then admit that a certain tyre will suit another car(and driver) better. Add in the human element and we then get another preference to meet in our tyre choice that a test can't replicate, again.
Chris you are British.. I cant race on words with you.. but you know that the meaning of different and proportional are different things :y
proportional means test order wont change ;D
it will on an omega, if compared to, for example, a ford fiesta. Grip level of the specific tyre and it's properties as it sits in the shelf are set, obviously. But without the car it's useless. But any car will use that tyre a different way.
We are talking about matching the best tyre to an omega. For an omega. And only an omega.
Do one test in a fiesta.
Do one test on an omega.
You will get a different order.
nope..
Sorry, incorrect.
I have already said my piece on P6000, which I've used on multiple cars. I have also used GY NCT on different cars, and the results are the complete opoosite of the P6000.
The P6000 was crap on the Rover GSi, the NCT was quite good. The P6000 was awesome on the Rover 25 and the NCT bad enough that even Mrs TB moaned about it. And she's a girl!
father bought p6000 for his car when I was not there.. its not a test winner.. an avg tyre imo..
I have used contis (ecocontact) on a small car .. was as succesful as its large sporty models..
however, you cant find most high performance tires for small sizes.. I witnessed that for clit.. so I bought the test winner for that size and quite pleased with it.. so a direct comparison is hard.. never seen asymmetric 2 for size 15..
does the compound change with tire size.. ideally no.. but not sure for that.. :-\
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father bought p6000 for his car when I was not there.. its not a test winner.. an avg tyre imo..
...
does the compound change with tire size.. ideally no.. but not sure for that.. :-\
Doesn't explain why it was the worse tyre I ever put on the GSi, and the best on the Rover 25. And if all things are proportional, why the NCT was good on the GSi and poor on the 25. Same tyres, same driver, different cars ;)
The Rover GSi and 25 actually were identical sizes - 185/55/15
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does the compound change with tire size.. ideally no.. but not sure for that.. :-\
And if it does, then that renders every test out there utterly pointless, unless done with the size of tyre we are interested in ;)
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does the compound change with tire size.. ideally no.. but not sure for that.. :-\
And if it does, then that renders every test out there utterly pointless, unless done with the size of tyre we are interested in ;)
then you will buy the same size ;D
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It's the same story on bikes.
Fit Dunlop 207 gp's to a Gsxr it will wobble off into the weeds. Totally un useable can't use the power or the brakes as the chassis is unstable.
Fit 207gp's to an Aprillia Mille and it transforms the bike into a real weapon.
The difference is the geometry of the chassis. ;)
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It's the same story on bikes.
Fit Dunlop 207 gp's to a Gsxr it will wobble off into the weeds. Totally un useable can't use the power or the brakes as the chassis is unstable.
Fit 207gp's to an Aprillia Mille and it transforms the bike into a real weapon.
The difference is the geometry of the chassis. ;)
Some great bike tyres around these days. Dunlop TT100's and Avon Roadrunners were the dogs boll*cks when I first owned a bike. Laughable now. ;D ;D :y
My brand new 1991 FJ 1200 came with Pirelli Phantoms. Oh dear. :-\
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whatever chasis you use for car or bike, tyres wont change their grip..
and if the chasis is crap all tyres will be affected similiarly Chris.. what you state is against physics law.. and thats my last statement.. :y
ps: I also dont believes tyres are made for this car b*ll*x.. its purely marketing for selling..
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It's the same story on bikes.
Fit Dunlop 207 gp's to a Gsxr it will wobble off into the weeds. Totally un useable can't use the power or the brakes as the chassis is unstable.
Fit 207gp's to an Aprillia Mille and it transforms the bike into a real weapon.
The difference is the geometry of the chassis. ;)
Some great bike tyres around these days. Dunlop TT100's and Avon Roadrunners were the dogs boll*cks when I first owned a bike. Laughable now. ;D ;D :y
for track stuff, it's all Pirelli super corsa's now. Mostly ;)
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OK guys, can you all not see it? We are a club of Omega Owners, some 10,000 strong. Can you not see an ideal opportunity here to collate 'experiences' (NOT figures) over the life of a tyre?
So rather than constantly disagreeing - we will never agree on the usefulness of tyre tests performed on different chassis - lets agree on what our findings are with various tyres on Omegas
Therein lies the problem. I certainly wont believe Tunnie's recommendations. I love the PS3, which you hate, so you wont believe my recommenations. Chris likes the SC3, but only the MO version, which is 91 rated and under specced for the Omega. CEM agrees with me, but others disagree. I suspect that collating thread will be the longest running debate ever. ;D
Within the groups of, excuse the non pc terms, but fast, medium slow. You'll receive more relevant recommendations though.
Hence ask a similar minded driver, and know your own mind as a driver, as to what tyres are needed.
Fact is Tunnies tyres are perfect for him. Ask him what tyres are he uses and he'll happily tell you. The error then is, assuming he drives the same way.
Obviously there's no point Tunnie buying sport maxx tt from TB's recommendation either.
Reasonable assumption, but 98% of men consider themselves to be driving gods. So trying to categorise onself's driving is like tyring to describe how big your pen*s is. Honest guv, 15 inches and growing every day!
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whatever chasis you use for car or bike, tyres wont change their grip..
and if the chasis is crap all tyres will be affected similiarly Chris.. what you state is against physics law.. and thats my last statement.. :y
ps: I also dont believes tires are made for this tyre b*ll*x.. its purely marketing for selling..
a tyre can have all the grip in the world, but if the tyre doesn't work with the chassis it's useless.
And as for the second comment, absolutely. And tyre makers will work the results in their favour. ;)
First hand experience is key. If objective.
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OK guys, can you all not see it? We are a club of Omega Owners, some 10,000 strong. Can you not see an ideal opportunity here to collate 'experiences' (NOT figures) over the life of a tyre?
So rather than constantly disagreeing - we will never agree on the usefulness of tyre tests performed on different chassis - lets agree on what our findings are with various tyres on Omegas
Therein lies the problem. I certainly wont believe Tunnie's recommendations. I love the PS3, which you hate, so you wont believe my recommenations. Chris likes the SC3, but only the MO version, which is 91 rated and under specced for the Omega. CEM agrees with me, but others disagree. I suspect that collating thread will be the longest running debate ever. ;D
Within the groups of, excuse the non pc terms, but fast, medium slow. You'll receive more relevant recommendations though.
Hence ask a similar minded driver, and know your own mind as a driver, as to what tyres are needed.
Fact is Tunnies tyres are perfect for him. Ask him what tyres are he uses and he'll happily tell you. The error then is, assuming he drives the same way.
Obviously there's no point Tunnie buying sport maxx tt from TB's recommendation either.
Reasonable assumption, but 98% of men consider themselves to be driving gods. So trying to categorise onself's driving is like tyring to describe how big your pen*s is. Honest guv, 15 inches and growing every day!
That's exactly what I said. But in a much politer way D.
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I would have thought that most OOFers are intelligent enough to know if they were driving gods, the they'd have a lucrative contract with a racing team ;)
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Not sure that is what you said chrisgixer. My point is that asking someone to submit a subjective review with a description of how they drive is bound to lead to people overestimating their driving abilities.
Its like the halfords website options if you choose to submit a review. All of them say that "they are willing to spend a little more as they are quality seekers". But this is what people choose even when reviewing a 99p screwdriver. No one seems to choose the "I am a buy the cheapest product kind of guy".
So my point was that you wouldnt get relevant recommendations if you asked for them, even from OOF. But I am willing to be proven wrong.
Apologies if my previous post sounds rude.
And Tunnie, I do apologise for my unwarranted references to you.
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http://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-article/tyre-grip (http://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-article/tyre-grip)
::) :)
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http://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-article/tyre-grip (http://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-article/tyre-grip)
::) :)
Yes, thats called handling.
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Not sure that is what you said chrisgixer. My point is that asking someone to submit a subjective review with a description of how they drive is bound to lead to people overestimating their driving abilities.
Its like the halfords website options if you choose to submit a review. All of them say that "they are willing to spend a little more as they are quality seekers". But this is what people choose even when reviewing a 99p screwdriver. No one seems to choose the "I am a buy the cheapest product kind of guy".
So my point was that you wouldnt get relevant recommendations if you asked for them, even from OOF. But I am willing to be proven wrong.
Apologies if my previous post sounds rude.
And Tunnie, I do apologise for my unwarranted references to you.
I do understand, as said in my fast, medium, slow post D. I saw it all the time on track days. Especially on the novice days as an extra group.
Maybe, tight as a ducks arse, economic, expensive, and bloody waste of money headings for drivers groups would be more pc. But equally less likely to get honest self assessment. ;)
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(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/lastikgrip_zpse29bae80.jpg)
:) :)
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I thought we had already agreed handling is not measurable?
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I thought we had already agreed handling is not measurable?
the handling that you were referring to..(ie what drivers felt)
I must shut up :-X ;D
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I thought we had already agreed handling is not measurable?
the handling that you were referring to..(ie what drivers felt)
I must shut up :-X ;D
...or you might have to agree. ;) ;D
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I thought we had already agreed handling is not measurable?
the handling that you were referring to..(ie what drivers felt)
I must shut up :-X ;D
...or you might have to agree. ;) ;D
I said I would stop because we were in circles.. I hope the last links satisfy you :) or may be not :(
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I would honestly describe myself as competent :) and as a competent driver, I stand by my opinions of the tyres that I listed earlier. :y
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I thought we had already agreed handling is not measurable?
the handling that you were referring to..(ie what drivers felt)
I must shut up :-X ;D
...or you might have to agree. ;) ;D
I said I would stop because we were in circles.. I hope the last links satisfy you :) or may be not :(
very much so cem, that's not in contention. We're asking you, trying to drag you , beyond that. There is sooo much more to it. So much more... :)
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I don'y care so long as they're legal, i'll probably pull one off my pile of 225/55/16s from my breakers ::)
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Woo, you've opened another class there Pete.
Elite Pete, tight as ducks arse, economical, expensive, bloody expensive. ;) ;D
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Woo, you've opened another class there Pete.
Elite Pete, tight as ducks arse, economical, expensive, bloody expensive. ;) ;D
Drive a diesel which isnt fast enough to pull a greased stick out of a dogs bum so not worried about cornering speeds in the wet ect just need then to have enough tread to shift the water should I need to stop ::)
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Woo, you've opened another class there Pete.
Elite Pete, tight as ducks arse, economical, expensive, bloody expensive. ;) ;D
Drive a diesel which isnt fast enough to pull a greased stick out of a dogs bum so not worried about cornering speeds in the wet ect just need then to have enough tread to shift the water should I need to stop ::)
Yes sorry that wasn't quite as amusing as I'd hoped. :-[