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[Lizzie_Zoom]

That is how much the current Government and Alistair Darling is to borrow up to 2010 to keep our Country afloat!!!

Just to remind us all it is:

[size=24]£196 BILLION[/size]

I am now speechless!!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Go, for God's sake and the rest of us, GO!!

EDIT:  I am still speechless after realising that the figure is as now shown above, not £180 Billion!   But each one of us will still "owe" as a citizen of the UK £3,000 EACH!!!

[STMO123]

Which equates to about $177 billion.

Banking giant Citigroup has just been pledged £306billion by the US government to keep it afloat.

Kinda puts things into perspective.

[cem_devecioglu]

IMF giving us only 12.5 billion £ ..That money is only for our teeth :-/

at least yours is a useful amount :-/

[Bandit127]

That is how much the current Government and Alistair Darling is to borrow up to 2010 to keep our Country afloat!!!

Just to remind us all it is:

[size=24]£118 BILLION[/size]

I am now speechless!!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Go, for God's sake and the rest of us, GO!!

EDIT:  I am still speechless after realising that the figure is as now shown above, not £180 Billion!   But each one of us will still "owe" as a citizen of the UK £3,000 EACH!!!

What would you have him do? Nothing, while we watch the inevitable wave of redundancies see ordinary families suffer?

No party politics here, I sincerely hope what he has done will mitigate some of it. Because it is ordinary people that cop the worst of it in times like this.

[STMO123]

Here's the number the us treasury has used for guarantees so far:

Ready?



[size=16]$7,400,000,000,000[/size]

That's 7.4 TRILLION dollars

[MikeDundee]

Well it's no wonder they won't lend any more money to us paupers anymore ..................cause there borrowing all of it

[cem_devecioglu]

Here's the number the us treasury has used for guarantees so far:

Ready?



[size=16]$7,400,000,000,000[/size]

That's 7.4 TRILLION dollars

simple..us federal reserve bank staff works sleepless a few nights

[cem_devecioglu]

Here's the number the us treasury has used for guarantees so far:

Ready?



[size=16]$7,400,000,000,000[/size]

That's 7.4 TRILLION dollars

simple..us federal reserve bank staff works sleepless a few nights

they only need ink and paper

[Golfbuddy]

In a nutshell, the government borrows £118billion and injects it into the economy now. This, it is hoped, will stimulate economic activity thus boosting tax income meaning that the receipts to the treasury will increase to repay the amount borrowed.

If the government, no matter what 'colour' it is, does nothing the country will descend further into recession thus seeing tax revenue dwindle further and necessitate further borrowing at a later date.

This is a calculated gamble to boost the economy and hopefully preserve jobs in the short term. No doubt, there will be pain further down the road but only when the economy is strong enough to withstand it.

Historically, governments have been too slow to react to recessions and this is a proportionate response to a massive global problem. If this proves successful, we could even see an early move to Stirling thus seeing the value of the pound strengthen.

I never thought I would say it but, it appears that Gordon and his bunch of morons appear to have at least understood the problem and have taken a sensible approach to remedying it.

[STMO123]

Here's the number the us treasury has used for guarantees so far:

Ready?



[size=16]$7,400,000,000,000[/size]

That's 7.4 TRILLION dollars

simple..us federal reserve bank staff works sleepless a few nights

they only need ink and paper

That solution was actually advocated by someone from the CBI earlier today. "Simple, just print more money"

[STMO123]

In a nutshell, the government borrows £118billion and injects it into the economy now. This, it is hoped, will stimulate economic activity thus boosting tax income meaning that the receipts to the treasury will increase to repay the amount borrowed.

If the government, no matter what 'colour' it is, does nothing the country will descend further into recession thus seeing tax revenue dwindle further and necessitate further borrowing at a later date.

This is a calculated gamble to boost the economy and hopefully preserve jobs in the short term. No doubt, there will be pain further down the road but only when the economy is strong enough to withstand it.

Historically, governments have been too slow to react to recessions and this is a proportionate response to a massive global problem. If this proves successful, we could even see an early move to Stirling thus seeing the value of the pound strengthen.

I never thought I would say it but, it appears that Gordon and his bunch of morons appear to have at least understood the problem and have taken a sensible approach to remedying it.

Dont you still use groats or something in Cornwall?

[Golfbuddy]

In a nutshell, the government borrows £118billion and injects it into the economy now. This, it is hoped, will stimulate economic activity thus boosting tax income meaning that the receipts to the treasury will increase to repay the amount borrowed.

If the government, no matter what 'colour' it is, does nothing the country will descend further into recession thus seeing tax revenue dwindle further and necessitate further borrowing at a later date.

This is a calculated gamble to boost the economy and hopefully preserve jobs in the short term. No doubt, there will be pain further down the road but only when the economy is strong enough to withstand it.

Historically, governments have been too slow to react to recessions and this is a proportionate response to a massive global problem. If this proves successful, we could even see an early move to Stirling thus seeing the value of the pound strengthen.

I never thought I would say it but, it appears that Gordon and his bunch of morons appear to have at least understood the problem and have taken a sensible approach to remedying it.

Dont you still use groats or something in Cornwall?

Shekels actually.

Shalom  

[STMO123]

In a nutshell, the government borrows £118billion and injects it into the economy now. This, it is hoped, will stimulate economic activity thus boosting tax income meaning that the receipts to the treasury will increase to repay the amount borrowed.

If the government, no matter what 'colour' it is, does nothing the country will descend further into recession thus seeing tax revenue dwindle further and necessitate further borrowing at a later date.

This is a calculated gamble to boost the economy and hopefully preserve jobs in the short term. No doubt, there will be pain further down the road but only when the economy is strong enough to withstand it.

Historically, governments have been too slow to react to recessions and this is a proportionate response to a massive global problem. If this proves successful, we could even see an early move to Stirling thus seeing the value of the pound strengthen.

I never thought I would say it but, it appears that Gordon and his bunch of morons appear to have at least understood the problem and have taken a sensible approach to remedying it.

Dont you still use groats or something in Cornwall?

Shekels actually.

Shalom  

Hmmmmm.... Golfhymie.

[cem_devecioglu]

In a nutshell, the government borrows £118billion and injects it into the economy now. This, it is hoped, will stimulate economic activity thus boosting tax income meaning that the receipts to the treasury will increase to repay the amount borrowed.

If the government, no matter what 'colour' it is, does nothing the country will descend further into recession thus seeing tax revenue dwindle further and necessitate further borrowing at a later date.

This is a calculated gamble to boost the economy and hopefully preserve jobs in the short term. No doubt, there will be pain further down the road but only when the economy is strong enough to withstand it.
Historically, governments have been too slow to react to recessions and this is a proportionate response to a massive global problem. If this proves successful, we could even see an early move to Stirling thus seeing the value of the pound strengthen.

I never thought I would say it but, it appears that Gordon and his bunch of morons appear to have at least understood the problem and have taken a sensible approach to remedying it.

You are soo right.. the pain will be there ..injecting money to the markets will solve the problem for a period..but after other problems will arise.. :-/

[cem_devecioglu]

Here's the number the us treasury has used for guarantees so far:

Ready?



[size=16]$7,400,000,000,000[/size]

That's 7.4 TRILLION dollars

simple..us federal reserve bank staff works sleepless a few nights

they only need ink and paper

That solution was actually advocated by someone from the CBI earlier today. "Simple, just print more money"

yep..no other known solution...but this will also cause some other problems.. :-/

[Bandit127]

That solution was actually advocated by someone from the CBI earlier today. "Simple, just print more money"

yep..no other known solution...but this will also cause some other problems.. :-/

Wilson's government tried it in the 70's IIRC. The 'other problems' involve inflation as the increased currency gets divided by the same nett value. The currency becomes worth less, inflation results...

[cem_devecioglu]

the worst things under crysis is that the blood in artery (this is money) stop circulating..and after the second worse happens..productions stop or cease..every single point controlling the money flow closes ..

but if you pump more blood (money) they will slowly turn back to normal..

After that you need to suck that money back slowly and increase the production..

[cem_devecioglu]

That solution was actually advocated by someone from the CBI earlier today. "Simple, just print more money"

yep..no other known solution...but this will also cause some other problems.. :-/

Wilson's government tried it in the 70's IIRC. The 'other problems' involve inflation as the increased currency gets divided by the same nett value. The currency becomes worth less, inflation results...

yep..thats inevitable..and you need to take back that money slowly..

[beemerdevil]

i have been saying for years, that the economy will pop.......so just for the record......TAKE NOTE.........you heard it here first

[waspy]

That is how much the current Government and Alistair Darling is to borrow up to 2010 to keep our Country afloat!!!

Just to remind us all it is:

[size=24]£118 BILLION[/size]

I am now speechless!!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Go, for God's sake and the rest of us, GO!!

EDIT:  I am still speechless after realising that the figure is as now shown above, not £180 Billion!   But each one of us will still "owe" as a citizen of the UK £3,000 EACH!!!

What would you have him do? Nothing, while we watch the inevitable wave of redundancies see ordinary families suffer?

No party politics here, I sincerely hope what he has done will mitigate some of it. Because it is ordinary people that cop the worst of it in times like this.

No, but who got us where we are now. Times were good so lets spend spend spend, instead of saving it for just the situation we're in now. Our dept was quite low, so they could've used the savings to pay off what we owe. I have no time for them

[Martin_1962]

Just scrap all of the big brother crap and use that money instead, I reckon that could free off 30 BN or so

[Lizzie_Zoom]

That is how much the current Government and Alistair Darling is to borrow up to 2010 to keep our Country afloat!!!

Just to remind us all it is:

[size=24]£118 BILLION[/size]

I am now speechless!!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Go, for God's sake and the rest of us, GO!!

EDIT:  I am still speechless after realising that the figure is as now shown above, not £180 Billion!   But each one of us will still "owe" as a citizen of the UK £3,000 EACH!!!

What would you have him do? Nothing, while we watch the inevitable wave of redundancies see ordinary families suffer?

No party politics here, I sincerely hope what he has done will mitigate some of it. Because it is ordinary people that cop the worst of it in times like this.

No, I don't expect anyone at the head of the Government to do nothing, but this is a tremendous gamble that commits this country, you, me and everyone else, to high taxes to pay it all back which will not  be accomplished until at least 2015.

We have all been complaining about high costs due to fuel taxation, yet this budget will see an increase on this tax, along with higher NI contributions, higher taxes on cigarettes and alcohol, etc, etc.  To knock off 2.5% on VAT does nothing to encourage people to spend, as lower fuel taxes would have done.

If this Government hadn't run the larder bare we would be in a better position now, although yes it would still have been very difficult!  This record rate of borrowing is "the highest since records began in modern times".  

If your business is struggling in the red it is no good chucking money at it without resolving the fundamental problems of that companies trading.  The country is like that company, which requires new ideas and incentives like massive public transport development and council house building, to provide jobs* and true income, not politicians borrowing more and more money to manipulate the situation, juggling the figues, without dealing with the fundamental problem. Running this country is costing too much in relation to how much it earns.  That is simple accountancy and needs now strong fiscal management of the highest order.  Not just "buying" for time.

As for the USA and it's bail out figures they cannot be compared to ours as their economy involves 300 million people against our 61 million, and they have the World's largest economy measured in many Trillions  of dollars, with ours fast slipping from forth place!

My opinion yes, but Labour Governments are historically renowned for over spending and over borrowing, so they ARE doing it all over again, which last time in 1979 Maggie Thatcher had to sort out!

*PS Before anyone corrects me I know £3 billion is going to be made available for public transport development, extra motorway building and house development!  Sorry but that is peanuts, as alone a high speed rail line from London to the North that could provide jobs in the construction, but importantly jobs to the North, with the need for more housing, will alone require at least £2 billion to build!

[Nickbat]

In a nutshell, the government borrows £118billion and injects it into the economy now. This, it is hoped, will stimulate economic activity thus boosting tax income meaning that the receipts to the treasury will increase to repay the amount borrowed.

If the government, no matter what 'colour' it is, does nothing the country will descend further into recession thus seeing tax revenue dwindle further and necessitate further borrowing at a later date.

This is a calculated gamble to boost the economy and hopefully preserve jobs in the short term. No doubt, there will be pain further down the road but only when the economy is strong enough to withstand it.

Historically, governments have been too slow to react to recessions and this is a proportionate response to a massive global problem. If this proves successful, we could even see an early move to Stirling thus seeing the value of the pound strengthen.

I never thought I would say it but, it appears that Gordon and his bunch of morons appear to have at least understood the problem and have taken a sensible approach to remedying it.

Well, yes and no, really.

It all very well and good doing things to stimulate the economy. They got that bit right (but, then again, you don't need two GSCEs to figure that one out).

The problem is that they have already indicated that the money will not come from government savings (like scrapping SPECs camera rollouts, the ID card, the NHS central computer, and so on), but will come from increased taxes down the line. So, in a nutshell, they are saying to people, please go out and spend and get the economy going....and we'll bill you for it as soon as things get back to normal.

That doesn't instill consumer confidence, which is the one thing that is lacking. Once that returns, we'll be back on track. Gordon and his fellow dopes are playing party politics with our finances, not getting to the heart of the problem which lies in low consumer confidence coupled with excessive government spending.  

[waspy]

That is how much the current Government and Alistair Darling is to borrow up to 2010 to keep our Country afloat!!!

Just to remind us all it is:

[size=24]£118 BILLION[/size]

I am now speechless!!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Go, for God's sake and the rest of us, GO!!

EDIT:  I am still speechless after realising that the figure is as now shown above, not £180 Billion!   But each one of us will still "owe" as a citizen of the UK £3,000 EACH!!!

What would you have him do? Nothing, while we watch the inevitable wave of redundancies see ordinary families suffer?

No party politics here, I sincerely hope what he has done will mitigate some of it. Because it is ordinary people that cop the worst of it in times like this.

No, I don't expect anyone at the head of the Government to do nothing, but this is a tremendous gamble that commits this country, you, me and everyone else, to high taxes to pay it all back which will not  be accomplished until at least 2015.

We have all been complaining about high costs due to fuel taxation, yet this budget will see an increase on this tax, along with higher NI contributions, higher taxes on cigarettes and alcohol, etc, etc.  To knock off 2.5% on VAT does nothing to encourage people to spend, as lower fuel taxes would have done.

If this Government hadn't run the larder bare we would be in a better position now, although yes it would still have been very difficult!  This record rate of borrowing is "the highest since records began in modern times".  

If your business is struggling in the red it is no good chucking money at it without resolving the fundamental problems of that companies trading.  The country is like that company, which requires new ideas and incentives like massive public transport development and council house building, to provide jobs and trueincome, not politicians borrowing more and more money to manipulate the situation, juggling the figues, without dealing with the fundamental problem. Running this country is costing too much in relation to how much it earns.  That is simple accountancy and needs now strong fiscal management of the highest order.  Not just "buying" for time.

As for the USA and it's bail out figures they cannot be compared to ours as their economy involves 300 million people against our 61 million, and they have the World's largest economy measured in many Trillions  of dollars, with ours fast slipping from forth place!

My opinion yes, but Labour Governments are historically renowned for over spending and over borrowing, so they ARE doing it all over again, which last time in 1979 Maggie Thatcher had to sort out!

Lizzie for Chancellor

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

It will be more than £118 000 000 000 in my opinion Lizzie.

This is to assume that we have some growth at the end of 2009, and significant growth in 2010, 2011. I doubt we will get any significant growth of that order during this time.

The tax take is going to be much lower than the Government suggest for these years. Unemployment could still be rising for a long time, which will me less people paying in and more benefits being payed out......little tax take from stamp duty because the housing market is dead. In pretty short order the Government will have to downplay future growth figures.

Who knows where it will all end.  

And to top it all Lizzie you are going to have to pay 45% on your earnings from now on

[Lizzie_Zoom]

It will be more than £118 000 000 000 in my opinion Lizzie.

This is to assume that we have some growth at the end of 2009, and significant growth in 2010, 2011. I doubt we will get any significant growth of that order during this time.

The tax take is going to be much lower than the Government suggest for these years. Unemployment could still be rising for a long time, which will me less people paying in and more benefits being payed out......little tax take from stamp duty because the housing market is dead. In pretty short order the Government will have to downplay future growth figures.

Who knows where it will all end.  

And to top it all Lizzie you are going to have to pay 45% on your earnings from now on

Yes, I think you are right.  Now I have studied the figures my original figure of £180bn was nearer the mark, although still too low, as I have now calculated a total borrowing of £196,000,000,000 over the next two years.

YES that is[size=24] £196 Billion [/size]that must be paid back, and the financial experts have already stated that the economy alone will not be right until 2015.

..........and the advantage is that VAT has been reduced by 2.5%.......equivilant to about £300 on a £16,000 car or 42p on an electrical kettle!!  

It would be worth me losing 45% in Income Tax if it was spent wisely, but we KNOW it is going to be all wasted on my civil servants!

[Lizzie_Zoom]

That is how much the current Government and Alistair Darling is to borrow up to 2010 to keep our Country afloat!!!

Just to remind us all it is:

[size=24]£118 BILLION[/size]

I am now speechless!!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Go, for God's sake and the rest of us, GO!!

EDIT:  I am still speechless after realising that the figure is as now shown above, not £180 Billion!   But each one of us will still "owe" as a citizen of the UK £3,000 EACH!!!

What would you have him do? Nothing, while we watch the inevitable wave of redundancies see ordinary families suffer?

No party politics here, I sincerely hope what he has done will mitigate some of it. Because it is ordinary people that cop the worst of it in times like this.

No, I don't expect anyone at the head of the Government to do nothing, but this is a tremendous gamble that commits this country, you, me and everyone else, to high taxes to pay it all back which will not  be accomplished until at least 2015.

We have all been complaining about high costs due to fuel taxation, yet this budget will see an increase on this tax, along with higher NI contributions, higher taxes on cigarettes and alcohol, etc, etc.  To knock off 2.5% on VAT does nothing to encourage people to spend, as lower fuel taxes would have done.

If this Government hadn't run the larder bare we would be in a better position now, although yes it would still have been very difficult!  This record rate of borrowing is "the highest since records began in modern times".  

If your business is struggling in the red it is no good chucking money at it without resolving the fundamental problems of that companies trading.  The country is like that company, which requires new ideas and incentives like massive public transport development and council house building, to provide jobs and trueincome, not politicians borrowing more and more money to manipulate the situation, juggling the figues, without dealing with the fundamental problem. Running this country is costing too much in relation to how much it earns.  That is simple accountancy and needs now strong fiscal management of the highest order.  Not just "buying" for time.

As for the USA and it's bail out figures they cannot be compared to ours as their economy involves 300 million people against our 61 million, and they have the World's largest economy measured in many Trillions  of dollars, with ours fast slipping from forth place!

My opinion yes, but Labour Governments are historically renowned for over spending and over borrowing, so they ARE doing it all over again, which last time in 1979 Maggie Thatcher had to sort out!

Lizzie for Chancellor

Well you know I think I could do a far better job; how could I be worse?!!

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Actually Lizzie £196 Billion sounds a lot less than .......take a deep breath Optimist...One hundred and ninety six thousand million pounds.....sounds much more impressive ...don't you think.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Actually Lizzie £196 Billion sounds a lot less than .......take a deep breath Optimist...One hundred and ninety six thousand million pounds.....sounds much more impressive ...don't you think.

You aren't a politician by any chance Optimist?

[Marks DTM Calib]

This is a joke.....they have borrowed stupid amounts upto now and spent it on inefficient things like the NHS etc.....

Now hes borrowing a stupid amount in order to try buy votes and a vain hope that it might stop the rot.

Well, its to late. The rot is here and in these times people dont go out and spend, the save. So it will make bugger all difference other than run up more debt for all us poor folk.

Incompitent is the only word for it.

And when ever I see him, why is it think of Black adder and have a sudden urge to put immac on his eye brows.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Actually Lizzie £196 Billion sounds a lot less than .......take a deep breath Optimist...One hundred and ninety six thousand million pounds.....sounds much more impressive ...don't you think.

You aren't a politician by any chance Optimist?

Nope.....too honest ::)for that lizzie....but I do take an interest in political matters..... Anthony Eden popped up in one of your threads recently.

Did you know that John Prescott served him food and drink......when he was a waiter on a cruise ship in the Fifties.....young good looking chap was Prezza in those days.....how times change.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Actually Lizzie £196 Billion sounds a lot less than .......take a deep breath Optimist...One hundred and ninety six thousand million pounds.....sounds much more impressive ...don't you think.

You aren't a politician by any chance Optimist?

Nope.....too honest ::)for that lizzie....but I do take an interest in political matters..... Anthony Eden popped up in one of your threads recently.

Did you know that John Prescott served him food and drink......when he was a waiter on a cruise ship in the Fifties.....young good looking chap was Prezza in those days.....how times change.

No I was not aware of that fact, so thanks for that Optimist.  It is good to link historical/political figures up in my research!

[Marks DTM Calib]

Of course, he needs to reduce the cost of living some how as since the daft interest rate cut, the pound has slid meaning the price of imported goods, holidays and oil has gone up....

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Of course, he needs to reduce the cost of living some how as since the daft interest rate cut, the pound has slid meaning the price of imported goods, holidays and oil has gone up....

.........Marks will probably continue now to go up due to loss of faith in the £ and the British economy!!

I  am now waiting for the Stock Exchange reactions tomorrow morning!

[Marks DTM Calib]

When interest rates drop....so do currencies.

You dont keep money in countries where the return is poor.

[Bandit127]

I  am now waiting for the Stock Exchange reactions tomorrow morning!

Lizzie - are you expecting another 10% increase? Or a bit of profit taking off the back of today's gains?

[Marks DTM Calib]

Possibly a bit of a rally on the high street shares....no change on banking (maybe a slight drop)....manufacturing (what is left) might benefit from the weak pound for exports but, this might be offset by the higher cost of the raw materials.

So...no major change I would suspect all in.

[STMO123]

If there's one thing I wont do it's predict what the markets will do. Not even from one hour to the next.
Anyone who thinks they can do it should have a go at short selling, you can make a fortune very quickly.
Or end up minus your shirt.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

If there's one thing I wont do it's predict what the markets will do. Not even from one hour to the next.
Anyone who thinks they can do it should have a go at short selling, you can make a fortune very quickly.
Or end up minus your shirt.

Yes indeed STMO123, as the markets I have looked at seemed to have rallied after both the US Citibank move, and the British Government's Darling Pre-Budget announcement this afternoon.  

But tomorrow is another day, and who knows what the speculators and City (Stock Exchange / Wall Street / Hang Seng / etc ) will do once they wake up to the situation of the British Government borrowing £196 bn?

Panic, stick, invest, or move their trillions of investments elsewhere.......?   Who knows what goes on in the minds of the world's facinating money men!!!

[markfree]

I  am now waiting for the Stock Exchange reactions tomorrow morning!  

FTSE 100 over 300 points up on the day - rocketed after 3pm - guessing thats when Alistair made his announcements -city seem to like it - see what happens tomorrow.

[LaserLance]

PS Before anyone corrects me I know £3 billionis going to be made available for public transport development, extra motorway building and house development This is peanuts remember the motorist pays to the chancellor £16 billion in taxs a year so looks like the poor old motorist is gonna  get hammered again,and we still got the olympics to pay for as well , the bottom line is we're in the brown(no pun intended) and smelly stuff up to our necks and the only people to get us out of it is the taxpayer ,which means you ,me and the rest of the poor saps who reside in this green and not so pleasant land  

[cem_devecioglu]

That is how much the current Government and Alistair Darling is to borrow up to 2010 to keep our Country afloat!!!

Just to remind us all it is:

[size=24]£118 BILLION[/size]

I am now speechless!!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Go, for God's sake and the rest of us, GO!!

EDIT:  I am still speechless after realising that the figure is as now shown above, not £180 Billion!   But each one of us will still "owe" as a citizen of the UK £3,000 EACH!!!

What would you have him do? Nothing, while we watch the inevitable wave of redundancies see ordinary families suffer?

No party politics here, I sincerely hope what he has done will mitigate some of it. Because it is ordinary people that cop the worst of it in times like this.

No, I don't expect anyone at the head of the Government to do nothing, but this is a tremendous gamble that commits this country, you, me and everyone else, to high taxes to pay it all back which will not  be accomplished until at least 2015.

We have all been complaining about high costs due to fuel taxation, yet this budget will see an increase on this tax, along with higher NI contributions, higher taxes on cigarettes and alcohol, etc, etc.  To knock off 2.5% on VAT does nothing to encourage people to spend, as lower fuel taxes would have done.

If this Government hadn't run the larder bare we would be in a better position now, although yes it would still have been very difficult!  This record rate of borrowing is "the highest since records began in modern times".  

If your business is struggling in the red it is no good chucking money at it without resolving the fundamental problems of that companies trading.  The country is like that company, which requires new ideas and incentives like massive public transport development and council house building, to provide jobs* and true income, not politicians borrowing more and more money to manipulate the situation, juggling the figues, without dealing with the fundamental problem. Running this country is costing too much in relation to how much it earns.  That is simple accountancy and needs now strong fiscal management of the highest order.  Not just "buying" for time.

As for the USA and it's bail out figures they cannot be compared to ours as their economy involves 300 million people against our 61 million, and they have the World's largest economy measured in many Trillions  of dollars, with ours fast slipping from forth place!

My opinion yes, but Labour Governments are historically renowned for over spending and over borrowing, so they ARE doing it all over again, which last time in 1979 Maggie Thatcher had to sort out!

*PS Before anyone corrects me I know £3 billion is going to be made available for public transport development, extra motorway building and house development!  Sorry but that is peanuts, as alone a high speed rail line from London to the North that could provide jobs in the construction, but importantly jobs to the North, with the need for more housing, will alone require at least £2 billion to build!

Lizzie,

You cant solve these problems like a company..The corresponding

parameters are very complicated ..

Main parameters :

A govt must be social ( in theory)

A govt must be democratic (in theory)

A govt must collect taxes ( in the name of social expenses)

A govt must keep the budget tight (like a company)

A govt must keep the balances between production and consumption

A govt must keep the profits of the main capital and political  powers

A govt must take votes


As you see all these are contradictory..


And the resultant shift or movement of  govt management will be

sum of those vectors and of which is also time dependant..

    Now, IMHO  the amount you are talking compared to the production

and consumption of UK is nothing..

   From a macro point of view, the important point is where and how

the money flow..What are the tap points.. And where all these money

flow accumulates..Because these all makes up the system itself ,

and the problem..

    And sorry for that, but govts only play their roles in the limit of

total systems permission..

[Simon_Omega]

In a nutshell, the government borrows £118billion and injects it into the economy now.
I never thought I would say it but, it appears that Gordon and his bunch of morons appear to have at least understood the problem and have taken a sensible approach to remedying it.

i like that  - and your value avatar made me chuckle too - every little helps!

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Quote fro CEM's reply:

"Lizzie,

You cant solve these problems like a company"



But that is exactly were this Labour Government of ours Cem have got it wrong.........the British economy should be run as a business!!

Great Britain Limited should still be run under the principles of any successful business.  Your income must cover your out goings, with any profit ploughed back into the business to reward the shareholders, the citizens of Great Britain.

It is in very simplistic form I know (so please no accountants pick too many holes in this!!) but in my experience of high level business requirements the GB Balance Sheet should look something like  this although please excuse the abreviated layout as if laid out fully would be far more complicated:
                                                               £
Income:
                        Taxes & Revenues            X
              Income from Investments           X
                                           Loans           X
Gross Income                                          X

Operating Costs
NHS                                                        Y
Defence                                                  Y
Education                                                Y
Social & Welfare                                      Y
All Other Departments                              Y
Civil Service Salaries                               Y

Fixed Costs
Rent for Government Establishments         Y
Maintenance Costs                                   Y
Running Costs                                         Y

Liabilities                                      
Loan Repayments & Interest                     Y

Total Costs                                       Y

Total Loss / Profit
    (Gross Income X minus Total Costs Y)    Zero
 as it should balance given the "Loans"
entered into the "Income"

The way the Labour Government has run GB Limited is historically TYPICAL of all Socialist governments;  they overspend and thus over tax.  The current Government are spending more than GB Ltd., is earning so having to borrow increasingly to "Balance the Books" in the 'Top Line' of the Balance Sheet to make the 'Bottom line' Balance.

GB Ltd., now required £196 Billion in loans over the next two years to "Balanace the Books"!!!

This is no way to run the business, even allowing for all the considerations for social and welfare requirements of any Government.  But. as I have frequently stated, socialist governments forget that requirement and just continuing to borrow to fund their habits!!   The great philospher economist, F.A. Hayek, warned of this very issue and the value of the "free market".  I would advise anyone interested to read his book:  Hayek, F.A. (1944) The Road to SerfdomLondon: Routledge .  

My opinion of course, so in fairness form your judgements taking into account a countary view by the economist John Maynard Keynes  

[cem_devecioglu]

Quote fro CEM's reply:

"Lizzie,

You cant solve these problems like a company"



But that is exactly were this Labour Government of ours Cem have got it wrong.........the British economy should be run as a business!!

Great Britain Limited should still be run under the principles of any successful business.  Your income must cover your out goings, with any profit ploughed back into the business to reward the shareholders, the citizens of Great Britain.

It is in very simplistic form I know (so please no accountants pick too many holes in this!!) but in my experience of high level business requirements the GB Balance Sheet should look something like  this although please excuse the abreviated layout as if laid out fully would be far more complicated:
                                                               £
Income:
                        Taxes & Revenues            X
              Income from Investments           X
                                           Loans           X
Gross Income                                          X

Operating Costs
NHS                                                        Y
Defence                                                  Y
Education                                                Y
Social & Welfare                                      Y
All Other Departments                              Y
Civil Service Salaries                               Y

Fixed Costs
Rent for Government Establishments         Y
Maintenance Costs                                   Y
Running Costs                                         Y

Liabilities                                      
Loan Repayments & Interest                     Y

Total Costs                                       Y

Total Loss / Profit
    (Gross Income X minus Total Costs Y)    Zero
 as it should balance given the "Loans"
entered into the "Income"

The way the Labour Government has run GB Limited is historically TYPICAL of all Socialist governments;  they overspend and thus over tax.  The current Government are spending more than GB Ltd., is earning so having to borrow increasingly to "Balance the Books" in the 'Top Line' of the Balance Sheet to make the 'Bottom line' Balance.

GB Ltd., now required £196 Billion in loans over the next two years to "Balanace the Books"!!!

This is no way to run the business, even allowing for all the considerations for social and welfare requirements of any Government.  But. as I have frequently stated, socialist governments forget that requirement and just continuing to borrow to fund their habits!!   The great philospher economist, F.A. Hayek, warned of this very issue and the value of the "free market".  I would advise anyone interested to read his book:  Hayek, F.A. (1944) The Road to SerfdomLondon: Routledge .  

My opinion of course, so in fairness form your judgements taking into account a countary view by the economist John Maynard Keynes  

Lizzie,

thanks for  the long writing..What you write is true..But thats the truth

of books .. Reality is a bit different for many countries.. And

especially if you are a developing country you need more fuel to grow

up.. And its really a political decision arena how the money

is spend and it purely depends on governors political views..

     Also I must note that IMHO, most governments dont have enough

freedom against the underlying system..

    And besides humans are not a simple subject of debit ,credit or

loans..They have their needs..And in case of necessity govts must be

capable of doing operations which breaks up the balance..(dont mean

their every move is correct)

 

    

[Varche]

I am generally a glass half full type of person but I find the current scenario quite scary. Not for us but our children or possibly even their (as yet unborn) children. Those sort of figures won't be paid off in just a few years. Who owns the government bonds i.e. the loans? There was a time last century when it would just be British people but now it will be the Chinese etc.

If a family business is in trouble because there is not enough money coming in to meet all the outgoings then they cut back or perhaps do a fire sale. I don't think many business advisers would say just keep borrowing more money without changing the way the business is run!

What a difference between Germany and Britain. The Germans are second in the world league after China of exporting more than they import and we were second from the bottom only beaten by the USA. Interestingly Spain is fourth from the bottom.

varche

[cem_devecioglu]

it seems like my citizens like your govts decision too much

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/dunya/10439070.asp?gid=229

from the comments it says like he's is like Robin Hood