Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: JamesV6CDX on 30 March 2012, 16:49:41
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Hi all,
Many members may remember some news was posted before Christmas regarding Welung666 (Lee David Wells), who is a member on here, and has been for some time.
In November last year, there was a news article posted, to the effect that he had been arrested in relation to child pornography offences, and due to the seriousness of the case, it was committed to crown court. The link to that news article is here:
http://www.stourbridgenews.co.uk/news/9349110.Former_Brierley_Hill_school_caretaker_faces_child_porn_charges/
Welung666 (Lee David Wells) attended Court 5 at Wolverhampton Crown Court at 15:00 this afternoon (30 March 2012) for a Plea and Case Management Hearing (PCMH). As you can see below:
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/wells.jpg)
Lee Wells pleaded Guilty.
He was sentenced to a three year community order, and a 3 year supervision order. He has been ordered to participate in a sex offenders rehabilitation programme, and an alcohol abuse programme. He has also been ordered to sign the sex offenders register for a period of 5 years.
If anyone wishes to verify this information, you can call Wolverhampton Crown Court on 01902 481000 and quote his full Name and case number, which is T20120034. The info is available to anyone.
I would like to stress that I have obtained this information purely from the public domain - via both "www.thelawpages.com" - from which the above screenshot derives, and telephoning the court on the above number.
I am not posting to "stir" but purely make the facts known, so members can be aware of this information, should they have children and consider Lee for work on their car.
Kind regards,
James
[edited by JamesV6CDX - Spelling Correction]
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Some people here rushed to his defence, fact he pleaded guilty :o
I feel for the families he visited while doing work on cars, knowing he was around their children :(
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It makes his username seem all the more repugnant. I'm not going to mince my words, the bastaard should be strung up.
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Yep.Sentence seems unduly light given the offences imo.
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Yep.Sentence seems unduly light given the offences imo.
Nope .. Other than the "3 year community order" which is a tad strange, as community orders usually involve a number of hours of unpaid work, this seems to be correct.
Non-custodial, with conditions. Subject to notification rules.
Major point will be that they were for "his own use" and not distributed to others .. at a guess
http://sentencingcouncil.judiciary.gov.uk/docs/web_SexualOffencesAct_2003.pdf
Sect 6A page 114
Also entitled to a "discount" as he pleaded at PCMH so did not go to trial.
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Yep.Sentence seems unduly light given the offences imo.
Nope .. Other than the "3 year community order" which is a tad strange, as community orders usually involve a number of hours of unpaid work, this seems to be correct.
Hi Nige, the gentleman at the court was very faint on the phone. It *may* be that he said a "community order and three year supervision order." I don't think he did though
But obviously the fact remains he pleaded guilty, and that this is a finer detail.
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James, thank you for posting this information.
I for one hope life delivers what he deserves >:(
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Cheers James :y
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James .. the 3 year supervision order will automatically make the community order last 3 years ...
http://sentencingcouncil.judiciary.gov.uk/docs/web_new_sentences_guideline1.pdf
Section 1.1.4 pages 3 & 4
I was forgetting that there are 12 conditions that can be put on a community order .. too used to only seeing the unpaid work one imposed !!
Sorry for any confusion ....
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My thoughts and experences of these bast*rds have been documented on here and are well known.
No point winding myself up so i'll just say, rope round his neck and give it a tug >:( >:( >:(
Scum >:( >:( >:(
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My thoughts and experences of these bast*rds have been documented on here and are well known.
No point winding myself up so i'll just say, rope round his neck and give it a tug >:( >:( >:(
Scum >:( >:( >:(
Yep and they should have their gonads removed ;)
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Should be stung up by gonads first and then by neck. >:( >:( >:(
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>:( >:( >:( like ive said before lock him in a room with kids mothers and some piano wire >:( >:( >:(
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My thoughts and experences of these bast*rds have been documented on here and are well known.
No point winding myself up so i'll just say, rope round his neck and give it a tug >:( >:( >:(
Scum >:( >:( >:(
Yep and they should have their gonads removed ;)
+ 1 b*astad >:(
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How did this come to light?
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If this person is still a member here should he not be banned purely on moral grounds >:(
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From how I have read this thread James has phoned the Court or somewhere.
I do find that strange if he has though.
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I doubt a member would phone every court in the land to check every individual known to them.
Clearly there is a reason for doing so. Just wondered what the reason was? Must have known in advance prior to. ...?
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From how I have read this thread James has phoned the Court or somewhere.
I do find that strange if he has though.
tbh its only two days ago i thought i wonder what the outcome was over the wellung goings on but yes i havent looked that deep into it and thought someone will pop it up one day and so it has
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someone joined and posted the original newspaper link, so i wonder if that person got in touch to say about the court date and james confirmed the details with the court. i know many wanted to know the outcome though.
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Ref his sentence.
If you put your hands up, you get 30% off your sentence.
If he (on very good legal advise) went in there and ASKED to be put on the sex offenders program, the court will look favourable on it >:(
If he bleats on that it happens when he was pissed and asks for help with that, the court will look favourable on it >:(
Anyway the prisons are rather full >:(
Thats why he got off lightly
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I doubt a member would phone every court in the land to check every individual known to them.
Clearly there is a reason for doing so. Just wondered what the reason was? Must have known in advance prior to. ...?
No need .. the "lists" of every court are public and can be searched very easily. If you have interest/knowledge of a case it is extremely simple to follow its progress ...
Couple of sites that might be of use ....
http://www.thelawpages.com/index.php
http://www.courtserve.net/courtlists/current/crown/indexv2crowndailies.htm
http://xhibit.justice.gov.uk/xhibit/court_lists.htm
"big brother" world is out there and waiting ... very little remains private ...:(
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I doubt a member would phone every court in the land to check every individual known to them.
Clearly there is a reason for doing so. Just wondered what the reason was? Must have known in advance prior to. ...?
No need .. the "lists" of every court are public and can be searched very easily. If you have interest/knowledge of a case it is extremely simple to follow its progress ...
Couple of sites that might be of use ....
http://www.thelawpages.com/index.php
http://www.courtserve.net/courtlists/current/crown/indexv2crowndailies.htm
http://xhibit.justice.gov.uk/xhibit/court_lists.htm
"big brother" world is out there and waiting ... very little remains private ...:(
no doubt, but how would a person know to look in the first place?
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Clearly an element of the community knew in advance.
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well .. I know how to look .... and James obviously does as well, and I expect many others - although maybe not that many OOFers - do as well....
The interesting question to me, anyway, is not who or how ..... but "why" ... but that is James's decision .. he has his reasons ..... it is not for me to second guess or criticise them... but I do know he has strong views on Child Protection.
:)
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He (James) or whoever, would want to protect the innocent until proven. And rightly so.
No need to hide the story now, as the sentence is passed.
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It has absolutely nothing to do with me ... but .. doing what I do... and having a devious mind ...
I find aspects of some of the article (Nov 2011) James posted very interesting especially after a small amount of research ...........
:o :o :o :o :o
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James has only posted the outcome, because after the initial post some time ago reporting on the accusations, it was noted that many wanted to know the outcome. Either hoping that Lee was innocent and was wrongly accused or, as is the case, found to be guilty as charged.
James has just kept us posted with the outcome, nothing more and certainly nothing less :y
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Clearly an element of the community knew in advance.
As someone said earlier - there was a post some weeks (months?) ago by a newly signed up member who had clearly got a vested interest with a link to the newspaper article stating that he had been arrested or something along those lines.
There was a massive ruckus .. I'm amazed you don't remember ;)
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Gents/ladies,
I am a curious member of the public, who used information available to the general public to follow progress of a court case.
As most will know, crown courts have public gallaries, anyone can see most cases in the flesh if they desire.
In terms of knowing which court to try, it's a simple explanation. The article said his address was Dudley, so the obvious crown court would be the nearest to there: wolverhampton.
Once I worked that out, I phoned the court last November, who told me the date of his hearing.
As a result of that, I knew when to check the (freely available) courts site to get the result...
To answer the question as to why: personal interest. Myself and a few others were curious as to the outcome of this awful situation with one of our members.
That really is it.
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I am pretty sure even thou his sentence was in my mind very lenient the rest of his life will be very different as his family and friends will certainly look on him in a different light. Wouldn't be surprised if he gets hounded out of his local area and probally have his life threatened.
It is very sad when someone has to stoop so low to indecently assualt innocent children and I feel really sorry for his victims and family but rest assured he will pay the penalty for the rest of his life. But it is well documented that the people who carry out these vile attacks on children where usually victims themselves when younger.
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I am pretty sure even thou his sentence was in my mind very lenient the rest of his life will be very different as his family and friends will certainly look on him in a different light. Wouldn't be surprised if he gets hounded out of his local area and probally have his life threatened.
It is very sad when someone has to stoop so low to indecently assualt innocent children and I feel really sorry for his victims and family but rest assured he will pay the penalty for the rest of his life. But it is well documented that the people who carry out these vile attacks on children where usually victims themselves when younger.
Lets be a little accurate now ... he was charged with "making indecent pictures" NOT indecent assault.
In the eyes of the law, viewing an image on the internet then SAVING that image is MAKING that image (on your hard drive). Had he actually been charged and found guilty of TAKING such photographs his sentence would be different .. by a significant factor.
I am NOT condoning or supporting him in any way, I just wish a degree of accuracy and less of the "kangeroo court" that seems to be creeping in. He has been dealt with as the law proscribes.
The above is my understanding of the matter, however I was not in court.
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Indecent assualt dosen't always mean physical harm but physcological harm also. People taking or viewing these images contribute to that harm taking place. As far as a kangaroo court being held I don,t think so, we are only expressing our views on someone found guilty.
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Clearly an element of the community knew in advance.
As someone said earlier - there was a post some weeks (months?) ago by a newly signed up member who had clearly got a vested interest with a link to the newspaper article stating that he had been arrested or something along those lines.
There was a massive ruckus .. I'm amazed you don't remember ;)
never read the original thread, although I have now, and as said there in it explanes his absence here, and the lack of Internet access. Something I thought a little odd at the time.
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I am pretty sure even thou his sentence was in my mind very lenient the rest of his life will be very different as his family and friends will certainly look on him in a different light. Wouldn't be surprised if he gets hounded out of his local area and probally have his life threatened.
It is very sad when someone has to stoop so low to indecently assualt innocent children and I feel really sorry for his victims and family but rest assured he will pay the penalty for the rest of his life. But it is well documented that the people who carry out these vile attacks on children where usually victims themselves when younger.
Lets be a little accurate now ... he was charged with "making indecent pictures" NOT indecent assault.
In the eyes of the law, viewing an image on the internet then SAVING that image is MAKING that image (on your hard drive). Had he actually been charged and found guilty of TAKING such photographs his sentence would be different .. by a significant factor.
I am NOT condoning or supporting him in any way, I just wish a degree of accuracy and less of the "kangeroo court" that seems to be creeping in. He has been dealt with as the law proscribes.
The above is my understanding of the matter, however I was not in court.
agreed.. the court has given the final decision and sentence.. no need for further judgement..
anyway he will pay much more in his future life ..
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i am totally shocked and dismayed by this news i had alwys considered lee to be a good and honest friend who would always assist me with my miggy as and when needed i met his ex and visited his house in brierley hill and the school he worked at as a caretaker... i knew he had been sacked by the school and local authority over an incident with a laptop he had acquired via the school and was using it a diagnostic tool for omega`s... i even invited lee to my wedding last year... though he never came and in febuary he even offered me all his tools and his car for free!! which i found strange at the time ??? :o but i never took him up on it as i knew he was in a deep depression and drinking heavily and i did not want to make something off a friend so i offered to keep them safe as the story i was told was he was being kicked out his flat as could not keep up with his rent though he never contacted me since then and the mobile number i have no longer accepts calls and i did not want to trouble his ex for any info i`m glad i didn`t now :( .... its really knocked me for six as i`ve always taken people at face value and do not make automatic judgements or jump to conclusions and i suppose some will say i`m nieve and dumb for this but i make no apologies for this.....
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i am totally shocked and dismayed by this news i had alwys considered lee to be a good and honest friend who would always assist me with my miggy as and when needed i met his ex and visited his house in brierley hill and the school he worked at as a caretaker... i knew he had been sacked by the school and local authority over an incident with a laptop he had acquired via the school and was using it a diagnostic tool for omega`s... i even invited lee to my wedding last year... though he never came and in febuary he even offered me all his tools and his car for free!! which i found strange at the time ??? :o but i never took him up on it as i knew he was in a deep depression and drinking heavily and i did not want to make something off a friend so i offered to keep them safe as the story i was told was he was being kicked out his flat as could not keep up with his rent though he never contacted me since then and the mobile number i have no longer accepts calls and i did not want to trouble his ex for any info i`m glad i didn`t now :( .... its really knocked me for six as i`ve always taken people at face value and do not make automatic judgements or jump to conclusions and i suppose some will say i`m nieve and dumb for this but i make no apologies for this.....
Been there .............. done that ............. I was that man :(
Don't beat yourself up over this mate, the bast*rds are in every walk of life >:(
Without getting paranoid, in this world we live in it is pretty much impossible to take anybody on face value :( ;)
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i am totally shocked and dismayed by this news i had alwys considered lee to be a good and honest friend who would always assist me with my miggy as and when needed i met his ex and visited his house in brierley hill and the school he worked at as a caretaker... i knew he had been sacked by the school and local authority over an incident with a laptop he had acquired via the school and was using it a diagnostic tool for omega`s... i even invited lee to my wedding last year... though he never came and in febuary he even offered me all his tools and his car for free!! which i found strange at the time ??? :o but i never took him up on it as i knew he was in a deep depression and drinking heavily and i did not want to make something off a friend so i offered to keep them safe as the story i was told was he was being kicked out his flat as could not keep up with his rent though he never contacted me since then and the mobile number i have no longer accepts calls and i did not want to trouble his ex for any info i`m glad i didn`t now :( .... its really knocked me for six as i`ve always taken people at face value and do not make automatic judgements or jump to conclusions and i suppose some will say i`m nieve and dumb for this but i make no apologies for this.....
Been there .............. done that ............. I was that man :(
Don't beat yourself up over this mate, the bast*rds are in every walk of life >:(
Without getting paranoid, in this world we live in it is pretty much impossible to take anybody on face value :( ;)
i agree totaly with that mate
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Bertie .. at the end of the day YOU have done nothing wrong except to trust someone who has, effectively, lied to you.
That is not down to you in any way, shape, or form. Do NOT try and explain it or justify it ...
You are yet another innocent party to someone else's wrong doing.
You have nothing to blame yourself for.
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I've been in a similar boat. Friends brother who I got on really well with was a Nonce. We didn't have a clue. He got time for his doings. This was many many years ago to. I felt rotten but then as I was told. It's his Private life and it's just that private so how would you know. I'm just more careful now especially where my two kids are concerned. Some people say it makes me a bit stand offish but it's for a reason. Every day's a school day and today this the lesson. You didn't know yesterday as you hadn't had the lesson. You never stop learning about things your whole life. Just chalk it down to that.
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bertie you cant blame your self for somebody elses wrong doings
you didnt know what he was like the same as the rest of us
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This just shows that you never know someone aswell as you think.... lets hope the children get the help they need to over come this horrible vile crime..... just cant work it out how someone can find a child attractive in that way. isnt there enough women out there on the game to satisfy these vile animals >:( >:( >:(
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As a survivoir of sexual abuse myself these creeps get a kick out off how much hatred they can get either from the internet or newspapers.its a natural reaction to say how much you would love to string them up etc etc this is what they want.
Please spare a thought for those youngsters that are suffering in silence and like myself as an adult survivour who spent years suffering until I got help 15 years ago (and 9 months of counciling).
It never goes away but you learn how to live with it and now ive managed to rebuild my life got married with 2 brats and have a close group of mates that have stood by me through thick and thin.
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As a survivoir of sexual abuse myself these creeps get a kick out off how much hatred they can get either from the internet or newspapers.its a natural reaction to say how much you would love to string them up etc etc this is what they want.
Please spare a thought for those youngsters that are suffering in silence and like myself as an adult survivour who spent years suffering until I got help 15 years ago (and 9 months of counciling).
It never goes away but you learn how to live with it and now ive managed to rebuild my life got married with 2 brats and have a close group of mates that have stood by me through thick and thin.
Fare play to you mate :y
As you folks have worked out by now, this is one subject that really grips my sh*t >:( >:(
Sadly, I have seen what these bast*rds do to people and familys first hand on a couple of occasions in the last 30 years.
I will never believe that these scum deserve to breath but sadly that is the way the so called
justice system works >:( >:(
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Fair play to "JamesV6CDX" for posting this info and bringing it to the attention of any OOF'ers who may have cause to come into contact with WeeLung, but why are some members trying to give him a hard time for doing so?
i am totally shocked and dismayed by this news... :( .... its really knocked me for six as i`ve always taken people at face value...
It is shocking when you realize what people are capable of. Shocking and scary.
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Fair play to "JamesV6CDX" for posting this info and bringing it to the attention of any OOF'ers who may have cause to come into contact with WeeLung, but why are some members trying to give him a hard time for doing so?
i am totally shocked and dismayed by this news... :( .... its really knocked me for six as i`ve always taken people at face value...
It is shocking when you realize what people are capable of. Shocking and scary.
:y+1
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Fair play to "JamesV6CDX" for posting this info and bringing it to the attention of any OOF'ers who may have cause to come into contact with WeeLung, but why are some members trying to give him a hard time for doing so?
i am totally shocked and dismayed by this news... :( .... its really knocked me for six as i`ve always taken people at face value...
It is shocking when you realize what people are capable of. Shocking and scary.
All you have to do is look around in a so called civilised society at sensible people going loony trying to get some petrol or "rioting" last year. If the constraints on society are relaxed e.g. during the second world war then you get a true picture of what people are really capable of like the holocoust.
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James, nice one on letting everyone know :y.
The dirty bas**rd wants hanging, be it pictures, doing anything to anyone or whatever, when it involves kids it's 100% sick in the head, and ought to hold a death penalty!
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James, nice one on letting everyone know :y.
The dirty bas**rd wants hanging, be it pictures, doing anything to anyone or whatever, when it involves kids it's 100% sick in the head, and ought to hold a death penalty!
100% behind this :y
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James, nice one on letting everyone know :y.
The dirty bas**rd wants hanging, be it pictures, doing anything to anyone or whatever, when it involves kids it's 100% sick in the head, and ought to hold a death penalty!
100% behind this :y
ABSOLUTELY :y
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be it pictures, doing anything to anyone or whatever, when it involves kids it's 100% sick in the head, and ought to hold a death penalty!
I don't personally want to discuss the specifics of this member, more generally:
My nieces and nephews (and even friends kids, and even their kids' friends etc), when young, used to come around on a sunny weekend, and we'd get the paddling pool out. Obviously, they often had no cossie, as its spur of moment, so they run and splash around in their birthday suits. Being toddlers, you have to join in, play, splashing them, getting hose out, generally messing around. All innocent, and all good fun for both the adults and kids.
Now, because of incidents like this, I'm nervous of doing this, to the point I won't unless they are fully cossied up, and the parents are around. I know I'm 'safe' with them, but them anyone, however inclined, would say similar, so my say-so doesn't count.
Not to mention when out and about with family/friends, when I end up being the only bloke, and taking the little lads to the toilet.
I've regularly gone away to France with a very good friend, and watched his daughter grow up from a newborn into a young lady, old enough to drive. On hols, as she was an only child, we used to borrow her cousin to kep her company - I've only met the cousin's parents a couple of times. We all know, as soon as kids are up and fed, they want to get changed and in pool, so Mrs TB and I would take them, whilst our friends cleaned up and had a bit of time to themselves to relax, before joining us. That now probably would cause raised eyebrows.
Everyone misses out, due to the actions of a few who have something gone wrong. I hope it is just a few, and that the trash media is blowing it out of proportion. Although, clearly, it is happening.
Sad. And evil.
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Agree 100% with all that :y
When my mother was growing up, my grandad being the big kid he was would often be found out in the street playing football with the kids.
From what my mother has told me, whenever her friends would bang on the door to see if she was "playing out", it was always her and her dad that they asked for :)
Happy days :)
Move it on 40 years or so, I was sat in the pub with my family watching the football on the big screen.
After a while, I got up and visited the boys room to syphon the python :D :D Did the business and as I was walking out I was confronted by some bloke who acused my of "eyeing up" his daughter who he said was 14. Tbh, at first I didn't have a clue what the break he was on about and told him so and being out with the family, I walked off. It was then that I reliesed that he and his family was sat infront of me under the big screen.
After a couple of more beers nature took its course and off I went for a pish.
Daft lad got up and followed me into the toilets and starts giving it large again.
Words was exchanged until he called me a PEDOPHILE. 5 seconds later, he was on the floor holding on too his mouth.
The point I am trying to make is that the world has changed.
Our children are the most precious thing we have and need to be protected from this.
The hard part is NOT turning paranoid like daft lad above.
These bast*rds have been around for years but with the advent of the internet, it is on the increase.
It is so much easier for these people to find each other and share there sick fantasies.
It is a fact of life that they have infiltrated all walks of life with some of them in very influencial positions in society. See previous posts on this subject I have made.
The world is changing and its NOT for the better.
My grandparents past away quite a few years ago now but as much as I miss them, I'm glad they are not around to see the way the world is now :( :(
Imho, anybody who makes excuses for the scum who do this to our children are as bad as the scum themselfs.
If that has put anybodys nose out of joint on here then tough ;)
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Fair play to "JamesV6CDX" for posting this info and bringing it to the attention of any OOF'ers who may have cause to come into contact with WeeLung, but why are some members trying to give him a hard time for doing so?
i am totally shocked and dismayed by this news... :( .... its really knocked me for six as i`ve always taken people at face value...
It is shocking when you realize what people are capable of. Shocking and scary.
All you have to do is look around in a so called civilised society at sensible people going loony trying to get some petrol or "rioting" last year. If the constraints on society are relaxed e.g. during the second world war then you get a true picture of what people are really capable of like the holocoust.
-
be it pictures, doing anything to anyone or whatever, when it involves kids it's 100% sick in the head, and ought to hold a death penalty!
I don't personally want to discuss the specifics of this member, more generally:
My nieces and nephews (and even friends kids, and even their kids' friends etc), when young, used to come around on a sunny weekend, and we'd get the paddling pool out. Obviously, they often had no cossie, as its spur of moment, so they run and splash around in their birthday suits. Being toddlers, you have to join in, play, splashing them, getting hose out, generally messing around. All innocent, and all good fun for both the adults and kids.
Now, because of incidents like this, I'm nervous of doing this, to the point I won't unless they are fully cossied up, and the parents are around. I know I'm 'safe' with them, but them anyone, however inclined, would say similar, so my say-so doesn't count.
Not to mention when out and about with family/friends, when I end up being the only bloke, and taking the little lads to the toilet.
I've regularly gone away to France with a very good friend, and watched his daughter grow up from a newborn into a young lady, old enough to drive. On hols, as she was an only child, we used to borrow her cousin to kep her company - I've only met the cousin's parents a couple of times. We all know, as soon as kids are up and fed, they want to get changed and in pool, so Mrs TB and I would take them, whilst our friends cleaned up and had a bit of time to themselves to relax, before joining us. That now probably would cause raised eyebrows.
Everyone misses out, due to the actions of a few who have something gone wrong. I hope it is just a few, and that the trash media is blowing it out of proportion. Although, clearly, it is happening.
Sad. And evil.
Google for Julia Somerville......nuff said!!
I know exactly how you feel J, I find myself making doubly sure that someone else is either present or knows exactly what I am doing where my own grandchildren are involved if I have to interact with them in any way while they are "exposed" (eg, wiping their bum after they use the toilet).
A very sad state of affairs when we are at the point of being shit scared of having any involement with kids even when are our own blood :'( :'(
As for the nonce known as Welung (double entendre there to start with), he exhibited typical nonce behaviour by getting a job where there was going to be plenty of kids to feed his sick tendancies.
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i agree 100% with all the coments about this idiot
the death penalty is too good for them burn them at the stake that would be a fitting punish ment for these b*******s
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The sentencing isn't justice. their never will be one either. He pled guilty, Im disgusted, Nowt more i can say.
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i agree 100% with all the coments about this idiot
the death penalty is too good for them burn them at the stake that would be a fitting punish ment for these b*******s
they should be shot all of them >:( >:( >:( >:(
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be it pictures, doing anything to anyone or whatever, when it involves kids it's 100% sick in the head, and ought to hold a death penalty!
I don't personally want to discuss the specifics of this member, more generally:
My nieces and nephews (and even friends kids, and even their kids' friends etc), when young, used to come around on a sunny weekend, and we'd get the paddling pool out. Obviously, they often had no cossie, as its spur of moment, so they run and splash around in their birthday suits. Being toddlers, you have to join in, play, splashing them, getting hose out, generally messing around. All innocent, and all good fun for both the adults and kids.
Now, because of incidents like this, I'm nervous of doing this, to the point I won't unless they are fully cossied up, and the parents are around. I know I'm 'safe' with them, but them anyone, however inclined, would say similar, so my say-so doesn't count.
Not to mention when out and about with family/friends, when I end up being the only bloke, and taking the little lads to the toilet.
I've regularly gone away to France with a very good friend, and watched his daughter grow up from a newborn into a young lady, old enough to drive. On hols, as she was an only child, we used to borrow her cousin to kep her company - I've only met the cousin's parents a couple of times. We all know, as soon as kids are up and fed, they want to get changed and in pool, so Mrs TB and I would take them, whilst our friends cleaned up and had a bit of time to themselves to relax, before joining us. That now probably would cause raised eyebrows.
Everyone misses out, due to the actions of a few who have something gone wrong. I hope it is just a few, and that the trash media is blowing it out of proportion. Although, clearly, it is happening.
Sad. And evil.
Google for Julia Somerville......nuff said!!
I know exactly how you feel J, I find myself making doubly sure that someone else is either present or knows exactly what I am doing where my own grandchildren are involved if I have to interact with them in any way while they are "exposed" (eg, wiping their bum after they use the toilet).
A very sad state of affairs when we are at the point of being shit scared of having any involement with kids even when are our own blood :'( :'(
As for the nonce known as Welung (double entendre there to start with), he exhibited typical nonce behaviour by getting a job where there was going to be plenty of kids to feed his sick tendancies.
Hence why the office computer is set to never send me a school run, my choice, i decided i didnt want to carry kids on their own. If the office is really struggling to cover a school run and im sitting close by doing didley squat, they may call me on the radio and ask me nicely, i always ask if theres an escort with the run, if there is i dont have a problem covering the job.
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One has to so so careful because of these perverts. :(
I had occasion to be walking past out local junior school, where my four boys attended. Outside the school gates at around 11.00 a young girl on her own with a violin case was in tears and obvious distress. My natural instinct was to go to her and find out what was the matter, a perfectly innocent thing to do. Second thoughts prevented me going to her assistance, so I stood a short distance away keeping an eye on her, eventually a woman who I presumed to be her mother arrived in a 4*4 to pick her up. Apparently the school don't teach music so contract out music lessons and she was waiting for a lift. Why the hell did the school let her leave the premises on her own and not wait for a named and know adult to collect her. >:( >:(
This put the child at risk and left me or any other caring adult open to all sorts of accusations. >:( >:(
This is the state we have become because of barsteward perv's and over zealous liberals >:( >:(
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My Flaber has never been so gasted.
I'm really shocked to the core about this, I had no idea this was happening until I read this thread. He's been to my house a couple of times to work on my car and always came across as a really great chap.
My faith in people has just dived another notch :( I know he's in a minority but it seems to be on the increase if the media and press are anything to go by
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My Flaber has never been so gasted.
I'm really shocked to the core about this, I had no idea this was happening until I read this thread. He's been to my house a couple of times to work on my car and always came across as a really great chap.
My faith in people has just dived another notch :( I know he's in a minority but it seems to be on the increase if the media and press are anything to go by
In all probability the same percentage of folks are involved .. the numbers are up for three reasons IMHO .... as there are more people a constant percentage actually means more offenders ..... more people are willing to come forward and report what has happened .... due to the electronic media you now hear about every instance, no matter where in the UK it happens ... 50 years ago you'd only of heard of your local incident ...
The fact that you've heard of an incident 500 miles away does NOT make it more or less likely that one will occur near you....
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Whilst like most I agree this sort of crime is a total taboo, even hardened criminals in prison will not tolerate them.... I do find it strange that Lee has not landed in prison himself. Why is this?
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Its a sad, sad, sad world..... :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
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Sentencing guidelines and prioritites I would imagine. There was a stupid drunken student in wales last week who posted some pretty nasty things on the internet about the footballer who collapsed on the pitch.He was in court before his feet could touch the ground and given a custodial sentence.Im not trying to justify racism in any way,but it seems to me that if we are short of cells in our prisons and have to prioritise,then locking up paedos should be much higher up the list of priorities than some daft student who talks shite on the internet.
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but it seems to be on the increase if the media and press are anything to go by
I think the media are also a danger themselves. If the Daily Mail is to believed, anyone using the internet must be a paedophile. I do worry that they are doing more harm by their sensationalist scare mongering, and depriving children from their childhood, and making parents look at anyone with excessive suspicion.
Conversely, clearly it cannot be swept under the carpet and hidden. Their needs to be a balance. I'm not convinced the current balance is correct.
I don't have answers, as its an impossible situation - there will always be nonces, perverts, rapists, whatever.
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Sentencing guidelines and prioritites I would imagine. There was a stupid drunken student in wales last week who posted some pretty nasty things on the internet about the footballer who collapsed on the pitch.He was in court before his feet could touch the ground and given a custodial sentence.Im not trying to justify racism in any way,but it seems to me that if we are short of cells in our prisons and have to prioritise,then locking up paedos should be much higher up the list of priorities than some daft student who talks shite on the internet.
I wonder if costs come in. Nonces have to have extra protection inside.
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Sentencing guidelines and prioritites I would imagine. There was a stupid drunken student in wales last week who posted some pretty nasty things on the internet about the footballer who collapsed on the pitch.He was in court before his feet could touch the ground and given a custodial sentence.Im not trying to justify racism in any way,but it seems to me that if we are short of cells in our prisons and have to prioritise,then locking up paedos should be much higher up the list of priorities than some daft student who talks shite on the internet.
I wonder if costs come in. Nonces have to have extra protection inside.
Indeed... I have a friend who's a screw at Parkhurst. He told me that in some instances there has to be a 1:1 ratio of guard to prisoner on the "High Dependency" unit :o
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Nonces and other vile people, shouldn't be given "extra" protection or segregated. If they know from the start that when they're caught and put inside, real justice will be dealt ::)
That thought may make them think twice about doing it..... :-\
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Nonces and other vile people, shouldn't be given "extra" protection or segregated. If they know from the start that when they're caught and put inside, real justice will be dealt ::)
That thought may make them think twice about doing it..... :-\
AGREED +1
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Whilst like most I agree this sort of crime is a total taboo, even hardened criminals in prison will not tolerate them.... I do find it strange that Lee has not landed in prison himself. Why is this?
Either the evidence was thiner then at first thought or he has turned grass
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Was logged onto OOF about 45 minutes ago.Any good reason why he hasnt been/ wont be banned ?
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Was logged onto OOF about 45 minutes ago.Any good reason why he hasnt been/ wont be banned ?
Plenty as to why he should >:( >:(
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:y :y
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I was hopeing he was coming to the next meet ;)
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Well if he is coming online i hope he reads this thread. And you sick twisted poor excuse of a man i hope some of the parents catch up with you and show you what feeling low and depressed feel like. You should be hung like the rest of them. Just remember this will remain with you for the rest of you life and i hope all the poor mothers and fathers that live within a hundred miles of you make you life a misery and if you feel the need to jump off a tall build theres lots at my work please feel free to come down and ill point you in the right direction
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>:( >:(i thought he was band from useing the internet if he can use it he could download these vile photos again
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That thought may make them think twice about doing it..... :-\
Not convinced it would. Doesn't stop rapists and granny muggers. Or murderers.
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Was logged onto OOF about 45 minutes ago.Any good reason why he hasnt been/ wont be banned ?
The UK justice system has dealt with it, what gives the Admin Team here the right to act when none of our rules have been broken. Vigilante justice was banned IIRC.
So if we make a rule that crims are banned, how can we police it, and where do we draw the line? 3pts for speeding maybe?
The above views are not necessarily my own, nor that of the Admin Team, but try to understand there are other viewpoints and considerations, even if they don't comform to your ideals. And you try to accuse me, incorrectly, of being Playground Macho ;)
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How about a bit of OOF democracy then ? Have a membership vote on the subject. ;)
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And just in case anyone is thinking I'm sticking up for him, I ain't. I think its an awful crime, that twists my insides that I couldn't even be sick.
Just so there is no doubt.
But, any punishment is a decision for the UK Justice system, and if we feel its not appropriate, thats who we should talk to.
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How about a bit of OOF democracy then ? Have a membership vote on the subject. ;)
I have a rope and a kangaroo. You got a tree??
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I can see the issue here, I could go out, steal a caravan and burn it. I'd take considerable pleasure at that, but I think the law would see otherwise. I would break the law, would that then be considered banned? Many would like I've taken one of them off road, many would be outraged!
Puts admins in a difficult situation, as its their call then which laws would be warrant a ban.
However in this type of crime, I think allowances should be made!
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>:( >:(i thought he was band from useing the internet if he can use it he could download these vile photos again
Without access to the full Court judgement I would suggest that any such initial restriction would only apply whilst the case was pending and thus, no longer be applicable.
But thats a matter really for Welung, his brief, and due legal process for any future prosecution possibilities.
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I can see the issue here, I could go out, steal a caravan and burn it. I'd take considerable pleasure at that, but I think the law would see otherwise. I would break the law, would that then be considered banned? Many would like I've taken one of them off road, many would be outraged!
Puts admins in a difficult situation, as its their call then which laws would be warrant a ban.
However in this type of crime, I think allowances should be made!
Any allowances should be framed around fact which is based on judicial findings and not misinformed personal viewpoints on an emotive subject.
And that ball certainly bounces both ways so do not read that as a yea or a nay!
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I have only made one comment on this thread and that was to agree about non- segregation of nonces in prison who commit this type of vile act.
The justice system no matter what we think about it has made a judgement based on the facts know to them, if that allows him access to the internet then so be it.
It puts the adminstrators in an unenviable position, however I think the matter of him being a member on here will simply resolve itself. I am sure he has read all the comments and knows that he is not welcome. If he wants to read what people think than he can just lurk like non- members. If he were stupid enough to comment you can imagine the reponse his posts would get.
If he is looking, " Perverts like you should be half kicked to death, castrated and tatooed across the forehead with the words PERVERT"
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I am glad to see so many "experts" exist on this matter .... :(
As my understanding is he was charged and pleaded guilty to "making or possessing indecent images" .... and nothing else .. perhaps a read of this .. by said "experts" mat assist ..
http://sentencingcouncil.judiciary.gov.uk/docs/web_SexualOffencesAct_2003.pdf
Especially Section 6, from pages 109-114
As I said in another thread ... a great deal of hypocrisy seems to be sprouting .. when it is "wrong" to call someone a "retard" .. but it is OK to call for the hanging of someone for having images on a computor.
I don't know the guy, AFAIK I've never met him, but he has been sentenced according to the laws of the land, so what gives the "experts" here the right to hang him ???
Oh .. and BTW .... I wonder how many folks have some porn on their systems ..... do you know the date of birth of all those involved ?? ... be careful what you wish for ......
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To be honest if that scum bag was to start being an active member I will be leaving the forum this is not aimed against the admin team and I understand this is not for me to say what should be done but just say he picked up work from this forum that would put him around children then it would not be fair to new users. This scum should not be part of a forum. We all know what's right and wrong and please make an exception in this instance there is the law of the land but we all use common sense so can we use it here
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hasnt this dragged on enough now. its becoming a hanging & slanging match.
judgement has been served. end of.
edit....
& no im not sticking up for lee either.
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Nige I respect you as a friend you know that, but I disagree with you totally here.
Looking at women too me is natural for a man too do, be them clothed or not, be it in a magazine or on the internet.
However I do not agree with anybody looking at children pictures.
Anyway you look at that, its sickening.
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hasnt this dragged on enough now. its becoming a hanging & slanging match.
judgement has been served. end of.
edit....
& no im not sticking up for lee either.
Judgement may have been served... If that is real judgement I aren't quite so sure.
This is also a topic which alot of people have very strong feelings about.
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I've just had a look at the link that nige has put up and the details and the way the offence is described and what determines the sentence make me feel sick.
How the hell a judge, magistate or a copper can deal with this sort of thing day in day out is beyond me. I take my hat off to you all :)
Deep down inside I know I couldn't do there job.
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I've just had a look at the link that nige has put up and the details and the way the offence is described and what determines the sentence make me feel sick.
How the hell a judge, magistate or a copper can deal with this sort of thing day in day out is beyond me. I take my hat off to you all :)
Deep down inside I know I couldn't do there job.
The reason it is done that way is really very simple..... it is an attempt to remove all emotion and personal feelings from the equation, and to give a proportionate response to each event.
Lets, for a single moment, agree with those who want to hang this guy for possessing photo's of kids .. so he's now dead....
Next up is the 19 year old who has "groomed" his 8 year old neice over 2 years into thinking Uncle **** is wonderful and she will do "anything" to please Uncle .... the "anything" now includes everything you can think of .. and some you might not ..... things that are truly depraved ....
Now what punishment does he get ??? death is for photo's remember ... ...
and forget about any fanciful home-made punishments .... this country still operates under the "rule of law" .. not kangeroo courts or vigilante posses .....
Now I don't agree with what he did in any way ... but I spent 38 years of my life having promised to uphold the rule of law and serve the country ... and I won't throw those principles away on a bucket of emotional stupidity and bravado.
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I've just had a look at the link that nige has put up and the details and the way the offence is described and what determines the sentence make me feel sick.
How the hell a judge, magistate or a copper can deal with this sort of thing day in day out is beyond me. I take my hat off to you all :)
Deep down inside I know I couldn't do there job.
The reason it is done that way is really very simple..... it is an attempt to remove all emotion and personal feelings from the equation, and to give a proportionate response to each event.
Lets, for a single moment, agree with those who want to hang this guy for possessing photo's of kids .. so he's now dead....
Next up is the 19 year old who has "groomed" his 8 year old neice over 2 years into thinking Uncle **** is wonderful and she will do "anything" to please Uncle .... the "anything" now includes everything you can think of .. and some you might not ..... things that are truly depraved ....
Now what punishment does he get ??? death is for photo's remember ... ...
and forget about any fanciful home-made punishments .... this country still operates under the "rule of law" .. not kangeroo courts or vigilante posses .....
Now I don't agree with what he did in any way ... but I spent 38 years of my life having promised to uphold the rule of law and serve the country ... and I won't throw those principles away on a bucket of emotional stupidity and bravado.
No matter what you say Nige, anyone doing anything like Lee with photos, or taking indecent photos, or this senario above, neither has any use on earth in my book. Messing with Children which ever way you cut it is something that should not be done.
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hi it was me that put the post on here in the first place i didnt do it for revenge but to let anyone with children know im his ex ty for letting me join
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hi it was me that put the post on here in the first place i didnt do it for revenge but to let anyone with children know im his ex ty for letting me join
I guessed that from your very first post. ;) Revenge is not an issue, morals and a sense of decency..................
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hi it was me that put the post on here in the first place i didnt do it for revenge but to let anyone with children know im his ex ty for letting me join
I am sure alot on the Forum appreciate the fact you did come along and tell us your news.
Keep your chin up x
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ty you are a nice bunch i will come on here from time to time
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ty you are a nice bunch i will come on here from time to time
Drop in any time :y :y :)
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I've just had a look at the link that nige has put up and the details and the way the offence is described and what determines the sentence make me feel sick.
How the hell a judge, magistate or a copper can deal with this sort of thing day in day out is beyond me. I take my hat off to you all :)
Deep down inside I know I couldn't do there job.
The reason it is done that way is really very simple..... it is an attempt to remove all emotion and personal feelings from the equation, and to give a proportionate response to each event.
Lets, for a single moment, agree with those who want to hang this guy for possessing photo's of kids .. so he's now dead....
Next up is the 19 year old who has "groomed" his 8 year old neice over 2 years into thinking Uncle **** is wonderful and she will do "anything" to please Uncle .... the "anything" now includes everything you can think of .. and some you might not ..... things that are truly depraved ....
Now what punishment does he get ??? death is for photo's remember ... ...
and forget about any fanciful home-made punishments .... this country still operates under the "rule of law" .. not kangeroo courts or vigilante posses .....
Now I don't agree with what he did in any way ... but I spent 38 years of my life having promised to uphold the rule of law and serve the country ... and I won't throw those principles away on a bucket of emotional stupidity and bravado.
totally agreed.. laws cant be a means of emotional punishment.. it must be logical and at the correct measure and proportion.. unfortunately these kind of events and even worse are not rare .. I remember from the files that father and mother have to deal with them nearly everyday.. :(
now , what will we do for the countries that they accept the girls marriage at age of 8-9-10.. I dont think any of you will accept that.. but interestingly world dominating countriesare not interested with this.. :( :(
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ty you are a nice bunch i will come on here from time to time
:y
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i can see it now..... everyone , including admins banned from site..... coz there's no way on this earth ANY of us are entirely innocent of any breach of some law somewhere..... at all..... speeding ...... for example.....
I personally feel the thread should be locked.... and specific subject dropped.
by all.
the issue has been dealt with in the courts, what is prescribed under law has been passed as sentence, and they're in possession of a hell of a lot more information concerning the entire situation than anyone here. assorted psychiatric and social reports will have been submitted..... in addition to the evidence gathered by the police....
had they felt he posed any danger to anyone, i'm sure he would have received a far more penurious sentence.
while I do not countenance the crime or behavioural trend , i'm aware that much of this sort of thing is often symptomatic of underlying problems, be they mental issues caused by chemical imbalances, micro-tumours, depression, or the trauma of being victimised in earlier life, or exposure to other desensitizing experiences and related issues (PTSD is a two way street )
this is not an excuse as such, but speaks to the overwhelming evidence for underlying mechanisms at work which the offender/sufferer is usually powerless to address until such processes are imposed externally... which will usually only happen AFTER a "problem" has become externally recognised.... sadly, due to the nature of the issue, this will often mean AFTER harm has been done....
wow isn't hindsight great.,... (note sarcasm)
i'm also distinctly unimpressed by the witch hunting ,have a go, apparent back stabbery evidenced by some members here.
(and yes, i have 5 kids.... 4 of them girls....)
I would add, i have suffered my own psychiatric trauma , (not in any way related to sex or children... ) and been through the treatment mills of chemical and psychiatric therapy .... and more or less come out the other side , once again, reasonably , manageably intact.... thus, you will forgive me for having perhaps some sympathy for someone appearing to have an internal demon of their own to deal with . Being stuck on the inside of a twisted relationship with external reality , is really impossible to just "wake up from" or "sort yourself out" of.... it needs external pressure, help... a life line......
(if you MUST know , I had a severe anger management issue, violent "red mist" black out events.... , & severe depression... a combination of chemical imbalance and situational distress. )
I wouldn't have pegged Lee as a sicko or nutter.... so.... for those who have previously said "i'm shocked, I had no idea...." take heart.. even someone with experience of having been on the inside of a mental disorder has no better grasp on it and is as shocked and saddened as you are...
but no, I will not be inviting him to dinner any time soon..... i just felt some people should step back and put away their kangaroos and ropes.
To Liberty..... his ex.... how's my car??? (assuming you still have it )
Max
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TBH, much as the crime Lee has admitted sickens me, he has been given his sentence.
ISTR it wasn't that long ago when another member announced that he was having attending court for (what was quite a serious) crime committed whilst mentally unstable for medical reasons and he was greeted with a huge amount of support ;)
The decision is not ours to make... Not one of us was privee to the extensive evidence that the courts will have been looking at when the sentence was handed down ;) I don't think we are in a position to judge him on anything other than our own opinions. I agree with TB (again! This is worrying :o) that he has broken none of the rules of OOF and therefore cannot really be banned, no matter how we all feel about his crime(S) ;)
However, I think it is highly unlikely that we will see him as an active member of the forum again... Well, not under his current user name anyway ::)
I try to be fair to people... That doesn't mean I feel sorry for him, but I do know that he will never forget what he's done ;)
Liberty, I echo the comments of others. It was good of you to take the time and effort to inform us about the situation. I'm sure it must have been difficult for you (in some way) but it was kind of you to make the effort.
I just hope that his treatment is just and fair, from all sides! His life will be ruined whatever happens ;)
Just as a final thought... Remember that indecent images of a "child" could be a girl aged 15 years, 364 days ;) I bet that many members have found themselves in the position that they see an attractive young lady who could easily be under that age (bearing in mind she could have "developed" early ;))... I've known of several 15 year old girls who easily pass for 20 when made up in the past and still see it frequently when I'm helping out at the pub ;)
Like I said.... I'm not condoning his crimes (they make me sick to the core >:() but we don't know the full story
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I have chosen to avoid posting on this thread, in part from personal experience and the other part from a professional point of view as I am, as part of my Job, involved in enquiries made following allegations, working alongside the Police..... :-X
I take no sides, openly (1984), but I do feel that this thread has run it's course and should be closed, Peeps have made their point, I see no advantage in it's continuation, and yes I am old skool where, with kids, you simply got stuck in, sadly now changed, though I would still step into a situation if needed and justify it afterwards, what a sad world global communication has made us, as nothing has changed with this subject, only advances in communications has made it more of a headline in the press :-X
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I have chosen to avoid posting on this thread, in part from personal experience and the other part from a professional point of view as I am, as part of my Job, involved in enquiries made following allegations, working alongside the Police..... :-X
I take no sides, openly (1984), but I do feel that this thread has run it's course and should be closed, Peeps have made their point, I see no advantage in it's continuation, and yes I am old skool where, with kids, you simply got stuck in, sadly now changed, though I would still step into a situation if needed and justify it afterwards, what a sad world global communication has made us, as nothing has changed with this subject, only advances in communications has made it more of a headline in the press :-X
Agreed. It's been flogged to death. :(
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You lot ain't ever gonna agree on this but please do carry on. Just pause every now and then so I can get more pop corn ;). What he did was very wrong. It was dealt with by the laws which govern our country. If you feel hanging,stoning or just a plain good kicking should of been the the sentence then you need to start a petition to change the laws we live by. I do not condone what he did in any way. However I wouldn't condone if a couple of you decided to give him a beating. Let's say you did give him a battering and then you ended up in court and were found guilty. Should you then be banned? Should somebody then take the law into their own hands to deal with you because you weren't given the death penalty? and what happens to them when their then found guilty of breaking the law? Can you see where this is going? The case has been dealt with. It is a very sensitive subject. It is time to move on.
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ADMIN PLEASE CLOSE THIS, IT IS HELPING NO ONE.... :( :( :(
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ADMIN PLEASE CLOSE THIS, IT IS HELPING NO ONE.... :( :( :(
:y :y yes totaly agree this topic has run its corse thanks :y :y
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I too now think this thread should be closed and locked... We have all had our say and it is now time to move on with our lives and resume talking and discussing other car issues and news issue... So can admin now lock this thread please.... :(
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Just one response let me please guys, unfortunately my knowledge is not enough to understand well all you wrote on the previous 7-8 pages but before closing this thread I feel strong urge to share something with all of you. It's about the story of my former pal who used to suffer with similar sexual interest and who because of it got similar punishment, too. He as a volunteer took apart an experiment in connection with sexual habit of his own and during the process he was hypnotised by a psychiatrist expert to reveal the roots of his special interest in teen girls. The result was shocking for all of his friends as he somewhere and some time in his childhood was the victim of the same sexual offence as he did later. :'( Who the victim and who the guilty? :-\ If somebody previously wrote similar stuff so sorry for repeating but as I wrote I had to tell it. Laszlo
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I am suprised how many are making excuses for Kiddie Fiddlers.
There is no excuse. >:(
Just wondering how many of you will be asking OOF's Kiddie Fiddler to work on their car? Also what you will think when he comes along too the Newent Meet?
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I am suprised how many are making excuses for Kiddie Fiddlers.
There is no excuse. >:(
Just wondering how many of you will be asking OOF's Kiddie Fiddler to work on their car? Also what you will think when he comes along too the Newent Meet?
The days of a straight right and wrong are long gone.
Everything is measured in degree's and everybody who commits a discusting vile crime like this is assumed to be a victim in some way.
Its the world we live in nowdays daz. Sadly :(
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I am suprised how many are making excuses for Kiddie Fiddlers.
There is no excuse. >:(Just wondering how many of you will be asking OOF's Kiddie Fiddler to work on their car? Also what you will think when he comes along too the Newent Meet?
I agree Daz >:(
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I am suprised how many are making excuses for Kiddie Fiddlers.
There is no excuse. >:(
Just wondering how many of you will be asking OOF's Kiddie Fiddler to work on their car? Also what you will think when he comes along too the Newent Meet?
Totall agree!
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I am suprised how many are making excuses for Kiddie Fiddlers.
There is no excuse. >:(
Just wondering how many of you will be asking OOF's Kiddie Fiddler to work on their car? Also what you will think when he comes along too the Newent Meet?
I respect your right to your opinion ...
but I'm not sure where the leap from "possessing images" to "kiddy fiddler" occurred ... unless the definition of the latter has changed in recent years ???
:-\ :-\
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He was only caught with pictures, god knows what he might have been up to or what it might have led to >:(
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I feel that this thread, like the previous one, has now more than run its course.
There have been all manner of 'hang 'em high' suggestions alongwith other equally valid opposed ones and personal observations on the subject.
Suffice to say that we are all entitled to our opinions - on any matter - but I would urge all to consider things carefully before reaching for a rope and a tree. As said by a lonesome 2 or 3, welung has been subject to judicial process and said process has delivered a verdict. Whether you feel that verdict is adequate or not is, again, your opinion.
As some of you know I have very strong feelings on this subject as it was in part a similar set of circumstances by a supposed friend that played a major contributory part in my heart attack that had me at the Pearly Gates with the fella in the yellow jacket and clipboard on points duty so, no, I have no sympathies for such persons.
Suffice to say I would not have him anywhere near my family, whether that is or was his persuasion. But thats my choice.
As a collective admin choice, however, Welung is now persona non grata on the forum.
locking now as further raking of the coals will serve no fruitfull purpose whatsever.