Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: feeutfo on 01 April 2012, 23:00:15
-
... that flourescent strip lights must have an earth to work. ... I think?
Either that or there is something very weird going on in my garage electrics.
-
... that flourescent strip lights must have an earth to work. ... I think?
Either that or there is something very weird going on in my garage electrics.
No appliance "needs" an earth to work. It may need an earth to be safe, but needing one to work implies there is current flowing through the earth conductor, which shouldn't ever happen.
If you can elaborate on what's going on maybe we can figure it out... ;)
-
... that flourescent strip lights must have an earth to work. ... I think?
Either that or there is something very weird going on in my garage electrics.
I think you should get that checked!
-
... that flourescent strip lights must have an earth to work. ... I think?
Either that or there is something very weird going on in my garage electrics.
I think you should get that checked!
Indeed... Not good :o
I thought your place had RCD trips though, which I thought detected Earth leakage :-\
-
If you have a neon screwdriver, carefully pull the cover off the consumer unit and touch the earth busbar and see if it lights up
-
If you have a neon screwdriver, carefully pull the cover off the consumer unit and touch the earth busbar and see if it lights up
Not a good idea... He's scared of electrickery ::)
-
What was that you were saying about being bad at electrics, Chris? :o
-
Today i mostly learned that my dad was right.
Do not mix the decanting of fuels with the potential of a naked flame or ignition source.
Just wish the cretins at Total in the North Sea got the same message. Before the wind changed......
BANG!
-
Today i mostly learned that my dad was right.
Do not mix the decanting of fuels with the potential of a naked flame or ignition source.
Just wish the cretins at Total in the North Sea got the same message. Before the wind changed......
BANG!
Wow. :o
I wish I was as knowledgeable as you about gas flares. ;)
-
Today i mostly learned that my dad was right.
Do not mix the decanting of fuels with the potential of a naked flame or ignition source.
Just wish the cretins at Total in the North Sea got the same message. Before the wind changed......
BANG!
Wow. :o
I wish I was as knowledgeable as you about gas flares. ;)
Not at all.
To have a massive inflammable gas cloud floating about in the proximity of a random forgotten flare flame that, miraculousely, has now extinguished.
Wow.....
-
Explaining may take some time, and I need to understand it myself first. But...
Inherited garage electrics from previous owner. Bit of a diy chap. There is a single plug socket for power in the garage. Off the side of that is a spur(?) wired into the side if the plug socket for lights on a switch as pic below.
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/1bf9062b.jpg)
The row of power sockets has another wire exiting up as you can see. That leads to two other similar 4 gang sockets in the garage. Plugged into one of these is light with a pull cord by the door. It's alway on as it's plugged into power from the 4 gang socket.
Where as the rest of the lights are on the switch next to the plug socket in the pic.
At some point long ago, the light on the pull cord failed iirc. I replaced it with a strip light. This was one of two I had that where discarded at work. They both had plugs on. They both work in a plug socket. BUT with plug removed and wired into the electrics to replace the pull cord light it refused to work. And there is stayed for years until today.
In a very rare fit if energy I got facked off with the state of the garage and tidyed up , put shelves back after the boiler was re sited in the garage etc.
Then... That poxy light....
I unscrewed the pull cord switch cover. Loose brown wire. Unplugged from the 4 gang. Re did the wire. Nfg.
Checked the ceiling rose, unscrewed to reveal a choc box, checked connections no problem. Still nfg.
Unplugged. Meter out. Beeps from the live pin on the plug to the light wire going in. Fine. Nothing coming back from the light on the blue wire.
Plug back in. Diagnostic screw driver shows red light on the live. Not the fuse in the plug.
Swapped the working light onto the same blue brown wire still nfg.
Can't find the fault....
Notice that the strip light has about 2 meters excess cable. Rip the old blue brown flex with no earth out. Run the light cable with earth to the 4 gang socket. It works.
Unplug, run the cable over the ceiling, wire the pull cord switch into the live brown exactly as before. Still works. Fine job done.
Only difference is the new cable as already on the light has an earth. Old cable didn't, and all the old cable bells out for continuity.
It all works fine now.... But Wtf?
-
Should add I checked loads of stuff, plug connections, socket for power. Etc etc...
-
I really don't like the look of that lot. Best we tidy it up sometime, TBH, Chris. :y
-
In what way? :-\
I should mention, all the sockets are in use. 12 plugs and 4 strip lights run from that one power socket bottom right in the pic.
Although all 3 4 gang sockets running from it have fuses and trips. Plus there's the fuses in each plug as well.
-
I really don't like the look of that lot. Best we tidy it up sometime, TBH, Chris. :y
Couldn't agree more - its an accident waiting to happen :o
-
I totally agree with Kev... i think we should have a Garage wiring party at Chris's
-
If you see a big mushroom cloud in the Reading area you know whats happened ;D ;D ;D :D
-
And there was me concerned that 10mm SWA might be an inadequate dedicated feed to my garage.. ;D
-
Yeah alright clever dicks, but your telling me break all, are ya? :)
It's is now April the 2nd btw.
-
My biggest worry would be the use of an extension lead as the start of the circuit.
Don't they sell sockets, back boxes and twin and earth down your way?
A fused spur looks much more professional than a 13A plug too.
-
Not bothered if it looks professional. Not even slightly.
Although I am concerned how the wiring exits the socket.
But then again the socket isn't plugged into the 4 gang itself, but run in series (?)
What's the difference between that and a pair of 2 plug power sockets on the wall?
-
Or do you mean the cable from from the plug?
Yes sorry, see what you mean now.
-
You've got to ensure that the weakest point in the circuit is the fuse.
Standard sockets and 2.5 t&e cable are designed to be part of a 32A ring main so down fused to 13A shouldn't start to get hot. Dunno if I'd trust a 4 gang extension lead to do the same.
I'm not well up on installation regs these days but always used to work on the principal that the fuse will pop long before any of the circuit it's feeding starts to emulate an electric fire.
-
You've got to ensure that the weakest point in the circuit is the fuse.
Standard sockets and 2.5 t&e cable are designed to be part of a 32A ring main so down fused to 13A shouldn't start to get hot. Dunno if I'd trust a 4 gang extension lead to do the same.
I'm not well up on installation regs these days but always used to work on the principal that the fuse will pop long before any of the circuit it's feeding starts to emulate an electric fire.
I wouldnt either....i think manu's tend to skimp on the thickness of cable on cheap products where they believe in 'normal' use it will be ok.
Try this for example. Fill a kettle fully with cold water and turn on, when boiled empty and repeat...i bet you will find the cable to it, is starting to warm up. Under 'normal' use the cable is ok, but not spec'd to constantly supply the 2 or 3kw needed.
I've also seen first hand, what happens when you plug a portable air conditioner into an extension lead that was plugged into another extension lead that was plugged into another extension lead.
I kid you not, this happened in a computer room at a company i was working for at the time......worked fine to start with.....left overnight and in the morning the extension cables had melted and the 13A fuse had eventually popped, they were lucky it hadnt started a fire......
With that amount extension sockets on the wall,, i'd be at the very least make a 'ring' out of them :y
-
I'm not well up on installation regs these days but always used to work on the principal that the fuse will pop long before any of the circuit it's feeding starts to emulate an electric fire.
I like that description.. :)
And indeed, Chris, I don't think any of that would even remotely get close to Part P ;D (Now nobody look in my kitchen at what the previous owners left .. maybe I should post a photo for amusement!)
-
If you have a neon screwdriver, carefully pull the cover off the consumer unit and touch the earth busbar and see if it lights up
Not a good idea... He's scared of electrickery ::)
Its good for you :o
I've see it on casualty on a saturday night :y
They use it on peoples hearts all the time to make them feel better :D :-X :-X :-X
-
Yes, in theory it's all protected by a 13A fuse so "can't be overloaded".
I practice, a 13A fuse can allow a considerable overload for a considerable period of time before blowing, so it's best to avoid the scenario where it and the wiring it protects is likely to be overloaded, especially where more wire than designed has been rammed into the terminals of the socket strips, so you may get poor connections which will get hot. As said, 4 way strips like that tend to be engineered down to the lowest cost possible as it is...
For a fixed installation of 4 way strips like that I would use a fused spur box to feed each one and extend the ring main to feed the spur boxes. That way, you're not ramming 2.5mm T&E into the terminals in addition to the flex they are designed to terminate.
Better still, fit a pair of proper 2 way 13A sockets on the ring main at each location and bin the 4 way strips, or use them occasionally as extension leads as they are designed to be used.
-
But... to cut to the chase, when I see a messy installation like that, I want to know what has been hidden under the covers. More often than not, when I come across an installation that looks a mess, whilst I can theorise as we have, that it's messy but probably won't do any harm, when I come to take it apart I find more serious wiring errors that would have done harm if left.
Someone who's happy to "have a go" and leave an installation messy will quite often have left more serious errors too. Maybe the problem with the light is an indicator that things aren't quite as they should be under the covers?
-
If you see a big mushroom cloud in the Reading area you know whats happened ;D ;D ;D :D
And then we would all have to call Mr Gixer a rather retarded bastud, wouldn't we? ;D
-
Well now that you mention it Kev, ther was a funny "working one minute, not the next... Glare at it, wiggle things, oh, now it's working" type moment with the angle grinder a couple of weeks ago on the same 4 gang socket. :(
Anyway, I'm actually quite proud of myself for getting the light to work at all tbh. 8)
.... Even if it Did take me until 10.30 at night. ;D
-
If you see a big mushroom cloud in the Reading area you know whats happened ;D ;D ;D :D
And then we would all have to call Mr Gixer a rather retarded bastud, wouldn't we? ;D
break off you! ;D
-
If you see a big mushroom cloud in the Reading area you know whats happened ;D ;D ;D :D
And then we would all have to call Mr Gixer a rather retarded bastud, wouldn't we? ;D
We don't already? ;)
-
I'm not well up on installation regs these days but always used to work on the principal that the fuse will pop long before any of the circuit it's feeding starts to emulate an electric fire.
I like that description.. :)
And indeed, Chris, I don't think any of that would even remotely get close to Part P ;D (Now nobody look in my kitchen at what the previous owners left .. maybe I should post a photo for amusement!)
Actualy, it probably would as the main connection into the fixed circuit is via 13A fused plug!
The rest would be considered a temporary install! (which clearly it is!)
It would be interesting to know if they are older HF start florry fittings......
-
But... to cut to the chase, when I see a messy installation like that, I want to know what has been hidden under the covers. More often than not, when I come across an installation that looks a mess, whilst I can theorise as we have, that it's messy but probably won't do any harm, when I come to take it apart I find more serious wiring errors that would have done harm if left.
Someone who's happy to "have a go" and leave an installation messy will quite often have left more serious errors too. Maybe the problem with the light is an indicator that things aren't quite as they should be under the covers?
Couldn't agree more with you Kev. Chris, i think the proper description of the previous owner as "a bit of a DIYer" should be changed to "dangerous breakwit".
It would be nice to see a seperate distribution board for the garage so if you do break anything up then you won't take the house out in the process.
Does the garage door "glow round the edges" at night after you've fished working and shut the door ;D
-
Chris
Fit one of these http://www.screwfix.com/p/volex-2g-dp-rcd-skt-metal-clad/94351 (http://www.screwfix.com/p/volex-2g-dp-rcd-skt-metal-clad/94351) to replace the socket if thats the incoming supply
or/and one of these http://www.screwfix.com/p/volex-13a-rcd-fcu-metal-clad/24825 (http://www.screwfix.com/p/volex-13a-rcd-fcu-metal-clad/24825) to replace the fused spur
No earthing probs and protected correctly - sorted 8) :y
-
break me. That will be over £200 by the time it's finished. Nearer £300 with cable/light switch(I might have chipped a bit off it)
Fuse box on the house has old fashioned fuses replaced with trip switches.
-
And if your'e going to replace everything, pop down the road to Reading Electrical & Lighting - might be cheaper than ScrewFix.
They're here: http://bit.ly/HOoqAJ
S'where all the bits for my garage came from and yep, about £500 did my garage incl. 50M of 1.5mm and 100M of 2.5mm, 11 metalclad double sockets, 2x light switches, 3x FCU, 10m of 10mm SWA and 5m of 1.5mm SWA.
Definitely RCD the garage if you've only got MCBs in the house.
-
break me. That will be over £200 by the time it's finished. Nearer £300 with cable/light switch(I might have chipped a bit off it)
Fuse box on the house has old fashioned fuses replaced with trip switches.
Wilex from the sound of it
How old is the wiring in your house Chris ?
-
break me. That will be over £200 by the time it's finished. Nearer £300 with cable/light switch(I might have chipped a bit off it)
Fuse box on the house has old fashioned fuses replaced with trip switches.
Can't be bothered to quote previous postings, but that is nothing short of an abortion and I'm surprised nothing has happened thus far.
I'm fully qualified to BS7671 (2008) and I'll be more than happy to pop over and give my tuppence worth as to the way it should be done, and I'm sure I can sort any materials that may be needed for nowhere near Screwfix prices.
I won't even think about charging you for my time, but you can cover the petrol money from the Shot to you & back if you like (oh, it's 2 sugars and white tea BTW) ;)
Pick any day you like as I'm still not back to work officially until I get this last session of chemo out of the way.
-
break me. That will be over £200 by the time it's finished. Nearer £300 with cable/light switch(I might have chipped a bit off it)
Fuse box on the house has old fashioned fuses replaced with trip switches.
Wilex from the sound of it
How old is the wiring in your house Chris ?
Older than him by the sounds of it from the Wylex/Crabtree board description ;D
-
break me. That will be over £200 by the time it's finished. Nearer £300 with cable/light switch(I might have chipped a bit off it)
Fuse box on the house has old fashioned fuses replaced with trip switches.
Wilex from the sound of it
How old is the wiring in your house Chris ?
Older than him by the sounds of it from the Wylex/Crabtree board description ;D
Saftey boots and rubber gloves time ;D ;D
Any bets the lights are wired in the old 2391 1mm twin with no earth and the sockets are the old multi stranded 2.5 t&e ::)
Imho, its a case of "rip it up and start again"
-
break me. That will be over £200 by the time it's finished. Nearer £300 with cable/light switch(I might have chipped a bit off it)
Fuse box on the house has old fashioned fuses replaced with trip switches.
Can't be bothered to quote previous postings, but that is nothing short of an abortion and I'm surprised nothing has happened thus far.
I'm fully qualified to BS7671 (2008) and I'll be more than happy to pop over and give my tuppence worth as to the way it should be done, and I'm sure I can sort any materials that may be needed for nowhere near Screwfix prices.
I won't even think about charging you for my time, but you can cover the petrol money from the Shot to you & back if you like (oh, it's 2 sugars and white tea BTW) ;)
Pick any day you like as I'm still not back to work officially until I get this last session of chemo out of the way.
You won't get a better offer than that, Chris. Martian can sort out the electrics and we can get busy on his 318 with the spring compressors. :y
-
Pick any day you like as I'm still not back to work officially until I get this last session of chemo out of the way.
Do you fancy rewiring my house as you go past on your way home? ;D
-
I really don't like the look of that lot. Best we tidy it up sometime, TBH, Chris. :y
+1.. complicated bodge jobs can easily get nasty.. :-\
-
Saftey boots and rubber gloves time ;D ;D
Any bets the lights are wired in the old 2391 1mm twin with no earth and the sockets are the old multi stranded 2.5 t&e ::)
Unless it was wired pre 1969 I expect the cpc will be present, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to find it's not actually connected.
You won't get a better offer than that, Chris. Martian can sort out the electrics and we can get busy on his 318 with the spring compressors. :y
The springs (as well as a couple of bushes after closer inspection) should be sorted for me next week, but if that falls through for any reason then your suggestion works for me :)
Do you fancy rewiring my house as you go past on your way home? ;D
You'll be doing all the donkey work on that one, I'll just do the final connect ;)
If you do have any concerns though, I'm quite happy to pop over and do a test/inspect for you.
-
chrisgixer - I'm with Kevin Wood - rip it out, and redo it, based on a) its a bodge, and b) what other corners have been cut. Seems like you have a good offer from Martian, who is a spark.
If for whatever reason that falls through, I'm sure old man Wood and I can sort it all out.
And in the spirit of being fair and equal to all, I'm gonna call you a retard ;D (that should keep the posters in "Poor Taste" happy ::))
Hotel21 - Love it :y
-
Hotel21 - Love it :y
What have I done now?? :-\
-
chrisgixer - I'm with Kevin Wood - rip it out, and redo it, based on a) its a bodge, and b) what other corners have been cut. Seems like you have a good offer from Martian, who is a spark.
If for whatever reason that falls through, I'm sure old man Wood and I can sort it all out.
And in the spirit of being fair and equal to all, I'm gonna call you a retard ;D (that should keep the posters in "Poor Taste" happy ::))
Hotel21 - Love it :y
Oi! I did mention I didn't fit it... And Mark did mention it would probably meet regs. Ish.
All the four gangs have trips.