Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: omega3000 on 02 April 2012, 19:58:07
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So im back to sqaure one after replacement of :
Radiator
HBV
Thermostat
Bridge seals ect ect
The car will gradually heat up and up till it goes into the red after 10-15 miles . When i pop the bonnet i can hear slight hissing from the back of the engine so could this be the non vx HBV at fault but i must add that there are no coolant leaks anywhere . :(
Im beginning to give up hope on keeping the car at this rate as much as i like it , any help appreciated even in person from anyone on here that can solve this for me .
Many thanks .
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I was getting this a while ago.... Try parking with the car facing uphill, put your heating on hi and pull the hose on the throttle body.
You might have an air block and this is the highest point so give that a try and top the girl up!
Hope that helps :y
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Water pump maybe?
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Check header tank cap/neck .. a leak from either small cracks in the neck or a knackered cap seal can give similar symptoms
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I was getting this a while ago.... Try parking with the car facing uphill, put your heating on hi and pull the hose on the throttle body.
You might have an air block and this is the highest point so give that a try and top the girl up!
Hope that helps :y
Thats about the only thing i have not tried dave but ill give it a go :-\
Header tank is pressurising like there's too much air in the system and it has poured out water once when its overheated ???
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I was getting this a while ago.... Try parking with the car facing uphill, put your heating on hi and pull the hose on the throttle body.
You might have an air block and this is the highest point so give that a try and top the girl up!
Hope that helps :y
Thats about the only thing i have not tried dave but ill give it a go :-\
Header tank is pressurising like there's too much air in the system and it has poured out water once when its overheated ???
If it's leaking water from the cap then the cap is leaking ..... !!! have a read here ..especially the solution right at the end !!!
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=101140.0
Also read this post
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=101516.0
Then check your header tank cap and neck .... :)
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Hi i have found in the past with air locks that i put the car up on car ramps or jack up the front as high as possible..with engine running..rad cap off this causes the air to dispel .
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Is it normal for the water to start spewing out the bottle with the cap off ?
I was getting this a while ago.... Try parking with the car facing uphill, put your heating on hi and pull the hose on the throttle body.
You might have an air block and this is the highest point so give that a try and top the girl up!
Hope that helps :y
I have just tried this and its still overheating :(
So its either header tank or cap now then or worse still the core plug !! If it was the core plug wouldnt the car be losing water rapidly as ive seen no water loss/leaks at all :-\
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I think you have an air lock.... Maybe???
Actually, that's exactly what mine was doing 'til I got all the air out...
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I think you have an air lock.... Maybe???
I really dont know what to do now dave , done as much as i can to resolve this but it still keeps overheating .
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See edit above....
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Have you felt the radiator? Is it getting hot?
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Have you felt the radiator? Is it getting hot?
Yes the rad is getting hot doz :y
The temp needle falls when its revved ???
But when its driven it will just overheat .
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I have read the head gasket rarely go, and IMO, if it was a core plug, you'd get water elsewhere....
Lift the front of the car, I don't think it needs much??? Open the header tank and loosen the small pipe on the TB but leave it on.
Run the engine and pull the small pipe, some water will come out but I think air will too.....
Keep topping up the tank and soon you should expel all the air....
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Air lock!
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I have read the head gasket rarely go, and IMO, if it was a core plug, you'd get water elsewhere....
Lift the front of the car, I don't think it needs much??? Open the header tank and loosen the small pipe on the TB but leave it on.
Run the engine and pull the small pipe, some water will come out but I think air will too.....
Keep topping up the tank and soon you should expel all the air....
The pipe you mean is that the one to the left or right dave , i have pulled the one to the left looking at the car from the front , nothing came out at first then coolant ran out so i took it for a run and it was still the same although i did not raise the car though .
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small coolant leaks wont heat up the car very quickly :-\
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I have read the head gasket rarely go, and IMO, if it was a core plug, you'd get water elsewhere....
Lift the front of the car, I don't think it needs much??? Open the header tank and loosen the small pipe on the TB but leave it on.
Run the engine and pull the small pipe, some water will come out but I think air will too.....
Keep topping up the tank and soon you should expel all the air....
The pipe you mean is that the one to the left or right dave , i have pulled the one to the left looking at the car from the front , nothing came out at first then coolant ran out so i took it for a run and it was still the same although i did not raise the car though .
It's the one on the near side (opposite the throttle cable)
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Ok , ill try again in the morning but if any mobile mechanic on here is available to have a look at the car for me in the meantime that would be great as i really cant see me fixing this one and i would rather it be fixed once and for all by someone on here as i know it will be done properly .
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Have you checked the hoses? One might of collapsed internally
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Have you checked the hoses? One might of collapsed internally
Only hoses i took off the car were the rad ones and they seemed fine ...all pipes are getting hot so presuming the flow is ok :-\
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This is a real puzzle. Like you say it maybe time for a fresh pair of eyes to take a look
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This is a real puzzle. Like you say it maybe time for a fresh pair of eyes to take a look
TBH ive had enough of trying to cure this so i would rather someone on here could have a look as its totally confused me as what to do .
If anyone is available to sort the car out , PM me and ill get back to you :y
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Today i checked everything again , jacked the car up and pulled the pipe opposite the throttle cable to try and bleed air out but to no avail . Replaced the header cap seal and still it overheats ...the fans wont bring the temp down at all and they run constantly . Not one bit of coolant loss anywhere but the pipe that i pulled
opposite the throttle cable is boiling and moving slowly like it has air in it so pulled it again and air came out then coolant/replaced and still overheating .What is wrong with this car/ anymore ideas :-\
Im looming more to take this to vx as much as i dont want to but its totally stumped me :(
Would a knackered water pump cause overheating issues like mine ?
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Any idea of the condition of the waterpump ?
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Any idea of the condition of the waterpump ?
Hi proz, no idea so would that cause the problems i have ....the further i drive the hotter it gets and the fans wont cool the car down .
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Any idea of the condition of the waterpump ?
Hi proz, no idea so would that cause the problems i have ....the further i drive the hotter it gets and the fans wont cool the car down .
Im not a mechanic by any stretch of the imagination but its the only thing left to check really .
Im sure i saw a thread before where the fins on the pump had broken off which obviously causes lower or a loss of waterflow altogether thus overheating . :-\
As said im scared when changing spark plugs so no expert ;D ;D ....but its just a shot in the dark maybe :-\
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I know what your saying , thing is ive thrown loads of money at this car and got it through its MOT and now im thinking is it worth fitting this water pump and then finding out its something else but the big question would be can it be anything else before is start and rip it to bits again :(. Really having enough of repairing and fault finding every week :(
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Wont cost anything to pull the pump out and have a look i suppose .... :y
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After the work you've carried out the water pump would be my next port of call. I'm sure it would be pretty obvious once you look at the impeller if that's the issue
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I did have a crappy water pump installed once by my garage....the bearings went and when I pulled it out to replace it found it had plastic impellers some of which had broken off........lasted 20K.
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Water pump sounds like a good next step to me.
Are both upper and lower radiator hoses getting piping hot (too hot to touch) when the problem occurs?
If not, coolant circulation is poor, so might well be water pump.
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Water pump sounds like a good next step to me.
Are both upper and lower radiator hoses getting piping hot (too hot to touch) when the problem occurs?
If not, coolant circulation is poor, so might well be water pump.
All hoses are hot so are you saying its not the water pump then kevin :-\
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I am with ENTWOOD.......check the expansion tank neck around the cap area to see whether there are numerous small cracks appearing... I had similar scenario to what you are experiencing and replaced the Expansion header tank bottle (new VX to me was £24.00) and bingo.......problem all solved and overheating sympton cured !!! :-)
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I am with ENTWOOD.......check the expansion tank neck around the cap area to see whether there are numerous small cracks appearing... I had similar scenario to what you are experiencing and replaced the Expansion header tank bottle (new VX to me was £24.00) and bingo.......problem all solved and overheating sympton cured !!! :-)
If the tank has these cracks like you say , would there not be water loss though ..ive not lost any water at all which is confusing .
Its the cheapest option by far though .
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Im going to put my money on the waterpump ... maybe lost a fin or two and just not getting enough circulation to cool effectively ... still circulating enough to get every pipe nice and hot but not enough to cool it :-\
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I'll go with water pump mate - don't get a Vx one unless you plan to take out a 2nd mortgage - a good quality pattern one is ok (QH or similar)
When you refill coolant run engine with cap off and heater set to HI to bleed air until stat fully opn. ;)
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I am with ENTWOOD.......check the expansion tank neck around the cap area to see whether there are numerous small cracks appearing... I had similar scenario to what you are experiencing and replaced the Expansion header tank bottle (new VX to me was £24.00) and bingo.......problem all solved and overheating sympton cured !!! :-)
If the tank has these cracks like you say , would there not be water loss though ..ive not lost any water at all which is confusing .
Its the cheapest option by far though .
I wouldnt go throwing parts at it hoping it cures it ... surely the cheapest option is to inspect the waterpump .
Doesnt cost anything to look :y
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I am with ENTWOOD.......check the expansion tank neck around the cap area to see whether there are numerous small cracks appearing... I had similar scenario to what you are experiencing and replaced the Expansion header tank bottle (new VX to me was £24.00) and bingo.......problem all solved and overheating sympton cured !!! :-)
If the tank has these cracks like you say , would there not be water loss though ..ive not lost any water at all which is confusing .
Its the cheapest option by far though .
I wouldnt go throwing parts at it hoping it cures it ... surely the cheapest option is to inspect the waterpump .
Doesnt cost anything to look :y
Ok i will strip it out and see what its like then , is this a common problem then ? If the pump is the original on 12000 miles i guess its done its job :-\
I might need your assistance MARTIN :'(
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im away friday and saturday,but back sunday :y
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im away friday and saturday,but back sunday :y
Ill start taking apart on sat and see how it goes mate , bring a hammer >:( :y
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which 1 lol ;D ;D
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bigger the better id say lol
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Think im right in saying the pump can be changed without taking the plenum and cambelt guard off so just a case of getting all the other stuff around it off and out the way ;)
bigger the better id say lol
Dont encourage me :( ;)
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you can remove pump without removing cam cover-but dont drop a bolt or it goes down inside=nitemare
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why is head gasket failure not considered?
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why is head gasket failure not considered?
I dont know but theres no water loss and no bubbling in the exp tank :-\
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how many miles has this tub done?
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how many miles has this tub done?
122000
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you are in the ball park for hgf from approx 100,000, i would not be surprised if you removed the heads and found the fire rings intact and the rest has vamooosed!! :'(
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you are in the ball park for hgf from approx 100,000, i would not be surprised if you removed the heads and found the fire rings intact and the rest has vamooosed!! :'(
Im really not qualified to reply on that one but surely if the head gasket/s had gone there would substantial water loss . You may be right but sure someone will respond to weather it could be HG :-\
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well i would love to be proved wrong, but you seem to have covered everything else,have you had an exhaust gas in coolant check?
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well i would love to be proved wrong, but you seem to have covered everything else,have you had an exhaust gas in coolant check?
No , if that needs to be done at a garage its out of the question as i cant drive the car and wouldnt trust the local garages around here anyway to give an honest opinion .
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I know what your saying , thing is ive thrown loads of money at this car and got it through its MOT and now im thinking is it worth fitting this water pump and then finding out its something else but the big question would be can it be anything else before is start and rip it to bits again :(. Really having enough of repairing and fault finding every week :(
thats the reason i got rid of mine i was throwing money at it i hope you get it solved :y :y :y :y :y
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I know what your saying , thing is ive thrown loads of money at this car and got it through its MOT and now im thinking is it worth fitting this water pump and then finding out its something else but the big question would be can it be anything else before is start and rip it to bits again :(. Really having enough of repairing and fault finding every week :(
thats the reason i got rid of mine i was throwing money at it i hope you get it solved :y :y :y :y :y
So do i ralf so do i ::) it seems its a multitude of things that is beginning to worry me esp if it is the HG :-X
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get your own
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BLOCK-TESTER-KIT-FOR-GASKETS-CYLINDER-HEADS-BT500-/160684455155?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item25698a34f3
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I know what your saying , thing is ive thrown loads of money at this car and got it through its MOT and now im thinking is it worth fitting this water pump and then finding out its something else but the big question would be can it be anything else before is start and rip it to bits again :(. Really having enough of repairing and fault finding every week :(
thats the reason i got rid of mine i was throwing money at it i hope you get it solved :y :y :y :y :y
So do i ralf so do i ::) it seems its a multitude of things that is beginning to worry me esp if it is the HG :-X
i dont even know if webby got it running tidy yet my old one i mean :y :y :y :y
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head gaskets are not a big deal,shit load of dismantling but nothing terrible. :y
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head gaskets are not a big deal,shit load of dismantling but nothing terrible. :y
I can imagine the cost of parts though :( then its more of a technical job than i could do so i would have to pay someone on top of that ...if it is the HG it just wont be financially viable to repair im afraid .
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about £75 worth of pattern parts would do it plus a fair bit of your time.
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we have a mystery overheating mig eh? I am probably going to aylesbury on friday. Can easily swing by northants for a look, providing the kettle is on :y :y
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about £75 worth of pattern parts would do it plus a fair bit of your time.
Dont get me wrong i really like the car and it will be last resort for me to give it up after so much work ive put into it , if i had the money i would strip everything and re build but its just become an endless task and its come to this where i cant drive it and i need transport . Going to look at the water pump and the pipe at the back and if its still doing itl have to go ...in bits if needed :'(
we have a mystery overheating mig eh? I am probably going to aylesbury on friday. Can easily swing by northants for a look, providing the kettle is on :y :y
More than welcome to pop round james that would be great ..ill have plenty of hot drinks :y
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well there's an offer for you,eatmydust, grab it before he changes his mind ;D
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well there's an offer for you,eatmydust, grab it before he changes his mind ;D
Yes i will do .
Will send a PM james :y
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You've got to feel for eatmydust. There he is getting all hot and bothered about a over heating problem and somebody tells him to put the kettle on. Talk about rubbing salt into the wound :P :P
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You've got to feel for eatmydust. There he is getting all hot and bothered about a over heating problem and somebody tells him to put the kettle on. Talk about rubbing salt into the wound :P :P
Its a shame for the car :'(
PM SENT james :y
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is there any way we can get hold of a water pump prior to me popping in? Maybe just a known good one someone has changed as part of a cambelt change, for the sake of elimination?
I am with Mr sassanach that the HGs will have some wear, if they are composite ones, but rarely do you see it causing such pressuring on the v6, unless its been cooked. First sign is usually leak from rear corner of ns head...
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is there any way we can get hold of a water pump prior to me popping in? Maybe just a known good one someone has changed as part of a cambelt change, for the sake of elimination?
I am with Mr sassanach that the HGs will have some wear, if they are composite ones, but rarely do you see it causing such pressuring on the v6, unless its been cooked. First sign is usually leak from rear corner of ns head...
Ill see if i can get hold of one then , can always take it back if the one on is ok . No coolant loss from what i can see , i even left cardboard under the car all night and nothing .
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not read all of this on my phone, but are there any other symptoms of overheating aside of the dash reading? Need to rule out electrical fault :D
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not read all of this on my phone, but are there any other symptoms of overheating aside of the dash reading? Need to rule out electrical fault :D
Edit ::)
No other symptoms ....bridge seals / thermostat/rad have all been replaced . All pipes hot but it just goes into the red after a mile or so and the engine fan is on constant and wont bring the temp down
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What happens if you turn the heater up to full temp and max fan speed?
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What happens if you turn the heater up to full temp and max fan speed?
Nothing at all .engine cooling fan still keep running .
But if the car is revved the temp needle drops then foot off throttle the needle rises again .
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well i would love to be proved wrong, but you seem to have covered everything else,have you had an exhaust gas in coolant check?
Seemed to have covered everything but looking at the vanes on the waterpump .... why it it you condemn the HG straight away ???Couldnt it be waterpump not quite giving enough flow .... ie not enough flow .... maybe the waterpump has thrown of a vane or two but your convinved its the HG without any real symptoms ??
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Temp rises when revs drop. Got to be a inefficient water circulation issue
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as i stated before,LOVE to be proved wrong,but at 100,000 plus head gasket is a definate contender.
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as i stated before,LOVE to be proved wrong,but at 100,000 plus head gasket is a definate contender.
So do you think we should throw hundreds of £'s at it without at least looking at the waterpump ???
Ok lets all assume the HG is f***ed ..... seems to be the standard answer when anything goes wrong right enough lol :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
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Head gasket went on my vectra and it pissed out water faster than i could pour it in ..dont have any of that so lets hope its the water pump ;)
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no not at all,by all means check the water pump, all i am saying is at 100,000 plus hgf is a high probability
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bloody ell, tuff audience!!
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no not at all,by all means check the water pump, all i am saying is at 100,000 plus hgf is a high probability
Ive got a missfire .... ooooo head gasket
brakes feel poor ...ooooo head gasket
vibration ......ooooo head gasket
using oil .....oooo head gasket
my kn** hurts .....oooo head gasket
Is there a pattern forming here ????
FFS just remove and look at waterpump to at least rule it out beore spending a fortune on """"head gasket""""" .... why do a lot of folks seem sure its head gasket without bothering to rule out everything else first .... typical poor diagnostics assuming straight away the HG is gone ..
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fair enough lets wait and see, as i have stated twice,i would love to be wrong. :y
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What happens if you turn the heater up to full temp and max fan speed?
Nothing at all .engine cooling fan still keep running .
But if the car is revved the temp needle drops then foot off throttle the needle rises again .
A clue!! Points to better coolant circulation higher revs, points to inefficient water pump ;)
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fair enough lets wait and see, as i have stated twice,i would love to be wrong. :y
I dont really care if your right or wrong .. all that annoys me is that as soon as somethings not right straight away someone says " head gasket "
Ive never seen the car or had a chance to look at it but to a total mechanical pleb like me it seems there there isnt enough waterflow ....but im sure your right and im wrong :y
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What happens if you turn the heater up to full temp and max fan speed?
Nothing at all .engine cooling fan still keep running .
But if the car is revved the temp needle drops then foot off throttle the needle rises again .
A clue!! Points to better coolant circulation higher revs, points to inefficient water pump ;)
As I've said all night basically ::) ::) ::) ???
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i know this may sound crazy but have you flushed the main radiator just in case it partially blocked and not cooling water fast enough
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i know this may sound crazy but have you flushed the main radiator just in case it partially blocked and not cooling water fast enough
Done that adey ;) had the rad off and the rad is getting warm as well as all the surrounding pipes ...what a bloody mystery . Hope james can sort it out , coolant flow from the pump does seem a probability but what do i know :-\
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What happens if you turn the heater up to full temp and max fan speed?
Nothing at all .engine cooling fan still keep running .
But if the car is revved the temp needle drops then foot off throttle the needle rises again .
A clue!! Points to better coolant circulation higher revs, points to inefficient water pump ;)
Agreed, and worth eliminating. However, I'd expect the bottom radiator hose to be running pretty cool in this case, and it's not, apparently. :(
If the temperature is getting into the red so quickly I'm surprised it hasn't boiled over yet. Well worth checking the gauge sender connection and also the grounding strap from engine block to battery negative terminal / chassis. Could well be that some of the alternator output is getting into the gauge circuit, hence a RPM-related misreading of the temperature. I'd be checking the coolant temperature from the engine ECU live data against the dash gauge as well.
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I have bought the water pump today and not from VX ...god knows how much they would charge . If you check the post james i have sent you 2 messages :y
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Cool, been up in North wales last night hence no internet access, but I'm good to go for tomorrow. Let's see if we can nail this ;)
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Cool, been up in North wales last night hence no internet access, but I'm good to go for tomorrow. Let's see if we can nail this ;)
I did have the hammer for the nails in my hand , thought i would give it one last chance to survive the last diagnosis :y
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I'm now not going to Aylesbury tomorrow, so will have plenty of time to dedicate to diagnosing this one :y
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I'm now not going to Aylesbury tomorrow, so will have plenty of time to dedicate to diagnosing this one :y
Nice one , i think there's a few bets at stake as to what the diagnosis is ...
oofer's will be pointing finger's and saying "i told you so" . Look forward to meeting you tomorrow .
Many thanks :y
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I'm now not going to Aylesbury tomorrow, so will have plenty of time to dedicate to diagnosing this one :y
Nice one , i think there's a few bets at stake as to what the diagnosis is ...
oofer's will be pointing finger's and saying "i told you so" . Look forward to meeting you tomorrow .
Many thanks :y
My money is on -
1) Water pump
2) Electrical fault resulting in strange gauge behavoiur (Eg, it's not actually overheating at all!)
3) Thermostat stuck shut (very rare, never heard of it, but never say never..
I had EXACTLY this same overheating problem on a 3.0 mig back in 2006..... gauge shooting up, coming back down fast with a good rev, and then climbing again.... ::)
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Im hoping its water pump , the new one has metal vanes . Is that ok :-\
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Better than plastic
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Anything's better than no veins :y
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Anything's better than no veins :y
;D
Will soon find out :-X :-X :-X
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Fingers crossed for you eatmydust :y
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Fingers crossed for you eatmydust :y
Thanks 8) would be good to fix it once and for all its been epic ;) apart from taking the pistons out for a spring clean it must be close to being sorted :D
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Big thank you to james for fixing the problems and cant thank him enough :y :y :y :y :y
PM sent ;)
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and the problem was?
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Not the water pump , although it was replaced as it looked suspect .
New water pump put on and all re assembled , took for a run and overheated again :(
Rad luke warm/cold spots , last resort was to try my old rad that i took off a while back as i suspected a leak..put the old rad on then took car for a run . Perfect :-X james suspected one or two of the threaded connections were lose causing leaks before making me think the old rad was knackered . So the replacement rad was at fault with some seriouse blockage issues >:( >:( >:(
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So what was it??????
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Edit above :y
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So what was it??????
What everyone said it was...the rad, but no one listened ::) ::)
Good result fella, must be chuffed :y :y
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Well chuffed indeed . Glad it wasnt the head gaskets :y Cant get my money back on the rad now as ive had it too long but hey ho all done now :y
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once we took the rad off the car and I tried to blow the water out, I knew for cert it was as blocked as a blocked thing that wasn't free flowing!
Pleased it's sorted for you :y
water pump change was still a good call. I didn't like your old one :y
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Well chuffed indeed . Glad it wasnt the head gaskets :y Cant get my money back on the rad now as ive had it too long but hey ho all done now :y
Bet you will sleep well tonight ;)
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Chuffed for ya fella.
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Well chuffed indeed . Glad it wasnt the head gaskets :y Cant get my money back on the rad now as ive had it too long but hey ho all done now :y
Bet you will sleep well tonight ;)
I will that ;)
To celebrate im taking swmbo out for a drive round the block :y
Big thanks james :y
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Any leaks from the working rad, or are we all good? :y
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Any leaks from the working rad, or are we all good? :y
Not sure yet james , ive topped it up once since you went as the level sensor came on . Took it for a 20 mile run in traffic jams and so on and the car is keeping its cool ....not even hot enough for the engine fan to kick in so all is good :y :y :y :y
I have put the blocked rad in soak with de-scaler to see what gunk comes out of it if any , then blow through like you did to see if its cleared . Will do as a back up rad :y
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i said radiator lol
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How old is the new rad, that is blocked, as you could get it replaced under warranty due to it failing and as you were unaware that this was the problem. If the rad is under a year old then it's under warranty and you should either get your money back or a replacement.
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Well done James you've probably saved the lad from a breakdown as well as the car! :D ;D :y
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How old is the new rad, that is blocked, as you could get it replaced under warranty due to it failing and as you were unaware that this was the problem. If the rad is under a year old then it's under warranty and you should either get your money back or a replacement.
The rad was a used one off fleabay :'( once bitten ::)
Well done James you've probably saved the lad from a breakdown as well as the car! :D ;D :y
He has saved my sanity , james is a star :y Full recommendation to anyone ..top bloke :y
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Well done James, the OOF spirit lives on :y :y