Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: tunnie on 03 April 2012, 09:39:15
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Been putting off this job for a while, but as MrsT is moving in time to fix it. I live on 5th of 6 floors in a small block of flats built in 1936, I have a problem with damp on one wall.
The wall backs onto the bathroom, the source of the damp was an incorrectly sealed bath. They grouted it, rather than sealed it >:(
I've resolved where water gets in, but its caused the plaster to go damp. From what I can see it was plastered, then papered, but the paper has seen much better days.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/803897/Flat/DIY/P1010822.JPG)
The top part of the wall is fine, in fact large sections are ok, its almost in "strips" or just small sections on this single wall.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/803897/Flat/DIY/P1010832.JPG)
Now I pulled off the wall paper, to find some sections dry & firm. Other sections are bubbling up, I chipped away at this and it just falls off, revealing the concrete behind.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/803897/Flat/DIY/P1010834.JPG)
There are no false walls in the flat, all are concrete. The plaster is damp and like mulsh were it has bubbled, the concrete is of course damp underneath. Small section here, I pulled off paper and chipped away a bit.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/803897/Flat/DIY/P1010827.JPG)
Its the only wall that has this issue, because of the bathroom. As the other walls are fine:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/803897/Flat/DIY/P1010829.JPG)
Whats best way to resolve this?
I'm thinking:
1) Strip all wall paper off
2) Chip away & remove all damp plaster, into good plaster. A good distance, 10, 20cm or so?
3) This will reveal lots of patches, hire a dehumidifier? Ventilation + heating? Let it dry out? Not sure how long this will take :(
Once its dry, paint this stuff on:
http://www.homebase.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=110&storeId=10151&partNumber=675049 (http://www.homebase.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=110&storeId=10151&partNumber=675049)
Then, either Polyfiller or plaster over the patches that I chipped out earlier.
Let that dry & paint over it. Either with standard paint or:
http://www.toollineuk.com/product.php/site/froogle/sn/PLCSOTW5L (http://www.toollineuk.com/product.php/site/froogle/sn/PLCSOTW5L)
Thoughts, suggestions? All very welcome :)
Considering getting a proffesional in, but what would they do, that I would not do above?
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If it is still damp, anything you do will be a waste of time. My bath is only sealed with grout and has been since it was replaced in 1998. It backs onto the kitchen (bungalow) wall and has a cupboard and the fridge freezer against it and I suffer no damp problems like that.
Are you 100% sure that is where the problem is coming from ?
Should add my wall is clinker blocks and rendered and set on both sides. Built in 1961.
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Leave well alone and don't move the Mrs in save you a lot of hassle on all fronts :D :D
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Although never going to be "cheap" either way, I would strip the entire wall back to concrete, then leave to naturally dry out. When it is, get it re-plastered and decorate as required.
Just imho
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Are you sure there are no water pipes in that vicinity that may be cemented into the walls,if one has a pinhole that would cause your problem,what you have there seems to much for a bit of seepage behind a bath/shower
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Ah damp!
What you need is to attend one of Varches "1001 ways of Dealing with damp " courses. All older Spanish houses were built with no damp proof courses. No problem as it hardly ever rains................
Solution number 876. Quickly clean the affected area and then tile up to waist height to hide the problem.
Solution number 138. Wire brush affected area and paint with wine vinegar then when dry finish as normal.
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Check your insurance policy - usually the item that has caused the fault is not covered but the damage caused is covered. You must identify the true source or all your hard work will be in vain. Be careful if they try and trap you to saying it was a pre existing condition when you took out policy
I had some serious work to do in my daughter's cellar - you think you have cured the water ingress but it then finds another way in. £16000 later with membrane systems and pumps and battery back up the issue is cured - long story but insurance paid - after a slight battle
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Are you sure there are no water pipes in that vicinity that may be cemented into the walls,if one has a pinhole that would cause your problem,what you have there seems to much for a bit of seepage behind a bath/shower
Forgot about that :y Have you got a pipe/cable detector thing. Might pay to run that over the wall to see what is there.
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Thanks for all the replies chaps :y
To answer a couple of questions:
1) Yes there must be pipes behind as the bath is directly behind this wall, with taps backing onto this wall. There was quite a bad gap between bath and tiles were the grouting has broken away. So there could be a leaking pipe. I'd not feel comfortable lifting the bath to inspect.
2) Insurance wise, I was not planning to involve them as I would only have to claim which would no doubt wack up my policy.
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Could anyone recommend a plumber or damp specialists in West London?
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Could anyone recommend a plumber or damp specialists in West London?
I can find you someone to do the job properly without ripping you off among my workmates, but I'm not so sure on whether they would travel in to West London to do the job.
I can certainly show them the pics & your description of the job and get their opinion if you like?
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Could anyone recommend a plumber or damp specialists in West London?
I can find you someone to do the job properly without ripping you off among my workmates, but I'm not so sure on whether they would travel in to West London to do the job.
I can certainly show them the pics & your description of the job and get their opinion if you like?
Much appreciated, many thanks. Yes please! :y
I loath getting people in as you never know if they are going to be good or not, posted up on http://www.mybuilder.com (http://www.mybuilder.com), got one guy coming for a quote tonight. Just to pop out the bath and inspect pipework. (Thanks Henry, did not think to check pipework!)
First place was £75+vat hour & expected work to take 3 hours. (bath removal, check & reseal)
If transport is an issue, I could easily pop down your way to collect them. :)
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Much appreciated, many thanks. Yes please! :y
I loath getting people in as you never know if they are going to be good or not, posted up on http://www.mybuilder.com (http://www.mybuilder.com), got one guy coming for a quote tonight. Just to pop out the bath and inspect pipework. (Thanks Henry, did not think to check pipework!)
First place was £75+vat hour & expected work to take 3 hours. (bath removal, check & reseal)
If transport is an issue, I could easily pop down your way to collect them. :)
We (my recently departed business partner & I) get asked by the likes of the BBC to work for them if that's any kind of reference, and the guys we work with have exactly the same attitude to work as we do.....the job gets done right the first time, you won't be getting charged £75 per hour for sure because that is a blatant piss take, and you won't know they've been there once the job is done as tidyness is just as paramount as the job itself where they are concerned.
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I don't know a lot about it, but it should be possible to test for damp. If the source of the damp has been stopped and the surface exposed for some time then surely such a test would determine whether any further investigation is required or it's just a case of "making good".
No harm in checking the plumbing anyway, of course.
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Much appreciated, many thanks. Yes please! :y
I loath getting people in as you never know if they are going to be good or not, posted up on http://www.mybuilder.com (http://www.mybuilder.com), got one guy coming for a quote tonight. Just to pop out the bath and inspect pipework. (Thanks Henry, did not think to check pipework!)
First place was £75+vat hour & expected work to take 3 hours. (bath removal, check & reseal)
If transport is an issue, I could easily pop down your way to collect them. :)
We (my recently departed business partner & I) get asked by the likes of the BBC to work for them if that's any kind of reference, and the guys we work with have exactly the same attitude to work as we do.....the job gets done right the first time, you won't be getting charged £75 per hour for sure because that is a blatant piss take, and you won't know they've been there once the job is done as tidyness is just as paramount as the job itself where they are concerned.
Thats what I like to hear, I was a bit taken back with £75+vat as a rate. Could not see it taking very long either, he started going on about 4 hours+ it was 50% discount on the rate ::)
Once I've confirmed either way if the bath pipes are an issue, I'm looking to get that wall re-plastered as well. So quite a few jobs hopefully to make it worth your while for anyone you recommend :y
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I don't know a lot about it, but it should be possible to test for damp. If the source of the damp has been stopped and the surface exposed for some time then surely such a test would determine whether any further investigation is required or it's just a case of "making good".
No harm in checking the plumbing anyway, of course.
Aye, one of these: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rapitest-RAPDTM118-Damp-Test-Meter/dp/B0001P0JZU
And just to echo what most have said - make sure it's not a leaky pipe (having just suffered similar with a leaking isolator valve underneath the bath) then when you know no more water is leaking into it get the paper off, knock the plaster back to where it's still good and get a good plasterer in.
Definitely don't waste your time trying to bodge it with polyfilla, it's just about impossible to make that stuff look good .. and plastering is more of an art than a skill so it's one of those things I definitely think it's worth paying for :)
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I don't know a lot about it, but it should be possible to test for damp. If the source of the damp has been stopped and the surface exposed for some time then surely such a test would determine whether any further investigation is required or it's just a case of "making good".
No harm in checking the plumbing anyway, of course.
Aye, one of these: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rapitest-RAPDTM118-Damp-Test-Meter/dp/B0001P0JZU
And just to echo what most have said - make sure it's not a leaky pipe (having just suffered similar with a leaking isolator valve underneath the bath) then when you know no more water is leaking into it get the paper off, knock the plaster back to where it's still good and get a good plasterer in.
Definitely don't waste your time trying to bodge it with polyfilla, it's just about impossible to make that stuff look good .. and plastering is more of an art than a skill so it's one of those things I definitely think it's worth paying for :)
Yes I thought the same, plus you see that wall when you walk in, so it needs to look decent.
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been out of the london area for too long now so most of my contacts have dried up excuse the pun.....you could try millwall know hes south of the river :y
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What no gaffatape bodge Student?? ;D ;D
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Yes I thought the same, plus you see that wall when you walk in, so it needs to look decent.
I think it's fascinating to watch a plasterer at work - I had one not so long ago to make good after a window opening was shrunk in the dining room (to match the kitchen it's now been knocked through to).. There's no way it'd have looked that flat if I did it, not on the first pass and not even on the 10th ;D
He, on the other hand, loads up his float and voila .. practically finished in one pass :o
When I do it it looks more like I'm icing a cake ;D
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Yes I thought the same, plus you see that wall when you walk in, so it needs to look decent.
I think it's fascinating to watch a plasterer at work - I had one not so long ago to make good after a window opening was shrunk in the dining room (to match the kitchen it's now been knocked through to).. There's no way it'd have looked that flat if I did it, not on the first pass and not even on the 10th ;D
He, on the other hand, loads up his float and voila .. practically finished in one pass :o
When I do it it looks more like I'm icing a cake ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D
What no gaffatape bodge Student?? ;D ;D
Even I draw the line at graffer tape rather than plaster ;D
been out of the london area for too long now so most of my contacts have dried up excuse the pun.....you could try millwall know hes south of the river :y
Not seen him online in a bit, he is the other side of London though.
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http://www.advancedbasements.co.uk/ (http://www.advancedbasements.co.uk/)
Tunnie - I used the above firm in the past - I know the owner and if you want a free of charge assessment then PM me and I will give you his mobile number
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i'd say you have a leak under the bath, probably on the join to the taps... that wall is WAY too wet for a bit of sealant leakage.
1) fix plumbing,....
2a) leave dehumidifier in bathroom for a day or two. that wall is soaked through.... and if you cover it up will take much longer to dry properly...
2b) strip back other side of the wall to bare concrete. and leave it to dry , make sure you ventilate the place well....
3) once dry, ish... re-tile and re-seal bathroom side. might be as well to treat wall core for rot/mold/mildew before doing so....
4) once the wall tests dry properly.... (using a moisture content meter) have the wall plastered...
5) decorate to taste..... gaffer tape allowed at this stage. if you must....
i know a seriously good plasterer lives down near Slough/Maidenhead, he's £200 a day.... but is amazing.... and quick...... he's about a million years old, should have retired ten years ago... but keeps going.... been a plasterer all his working life..... i use him whenever possible for client builds.... and my own place....
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http://www.advancedbasements.co.uk/ (http://www.advancedbasements.co.uk/)
Tunnie - I used the above firm in the past - I know the owner and if you want a free of charge assessment then PM me and I will give you his mobile number
Thanks, could be interested in that once I've identified the leak.
i'd say you have a leak under the bath, probably on the join to the taps... that wall is WAY too wet for a bit of sealant leakage.
1) fix plumbing,....
2a) leave dehumidifier in bathroom for a day or two. that wall is soaked through.... and if you cover it up will take much longer to dry properly...
2b) strip back other side of the wall to bare concrete. and leave it to dry , make sure you ventilate the place well....
3) once dry, ish... re-tile and re-seal bathroom side. might be as well to treat wall core for rot/mold/mildew before doing so....
4) once the wall tests dry properly.... (using a moisture content meter) have the wall plastered...
5) decorate to taste..... gaffer tape allowed at this stage. if you must....
i know a seriously good plasterer lives down near Slough/Maidenhead, he's £200 a day.... but is amazing.... and quick...... he's about a million years old, should have retired ten years ago... but keeps going.... been a plasterer all his working life..... i use him whenever possible for client builds.... and my own place....
Thanks Max, it s quite wet in some sections when you pick away at it :(
First things first get bath out and inspect its pipework I think
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I don't know a lot about it, but it should be possible to test for damp. If the source of the damp has been stopped and the surface exposed for some time then surely such a test would determine whether any further investigation is required or it's just a case of "making good".
No harm in checking the plumbing anyway, of course.
Aye, one of these: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rapitest-RAPDTM118-Damp-Test-Meter/dp/B0001P0JZU
Ordered! As its pointless painting too early, should prove useful! :) :y
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I don't know a lot about it, but it should be possible to test for damp. If the source of the damp has been stopped and the surface exposed for some time then surely such a test would determine whether any further investigation is required or it's just a case of "making good".
No harm in checking the plumbing anyway, of course.
Aye, one of these: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rapitest-RAPDTM118-Damp-Test-Meter/dp/B0001P0JZU
Ordered! As its pointless painting too early, should prove useful! :) :y
May give you a better idea as to where the source of any leak is as well :y :y
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I don't know a lot about it, but it should be possible to test for damp. If the source of the damp has been stopped and the surface exposed for some time then surely such a test would determine whether any further investigation is required or it's just a case of "making good".
No harm in checking the plumbing anyway, of course.
Aye, one of these: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rapitest-RAPDTM118-Damp-Test-Meter/dp/B0001P0JZU
Ordered! As its pointless painting too early, should prove useful! :) :y
May give you a better idea as to where the source of any leak is as well :y :y
Never used one, so I can just point/put it on wallpaper, concrete & plaster?
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Just spotted some cheaper ones, as I'm at work i just ordered it quickly.
Digital one is actually less:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Detector-Moisture-Red-Edge/dp/B004JEBDTU/ref=pd_cp_diy_3 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Detector-Moisture-Red-Edge/dp/B004JEBDTU/ref=pd_cp_diy_3)
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I agree with Varche. Get rid of all the crap and replaster.
Contrary to other post, that is NOT way too wet for a seal leakage. If it has been like it a long time, bathroom used constantly, it just gets wetter and wetter with no chance to dry out.
You have to get off ALL affected plaster, and maybe more where the concrete underneath may be damp but not yet soaked the plaster. So you'll need to chisel away the plaster until you find dry concrete.
Then the concrete must be dry before plastering. Circulation of cool air, by leaving windows open or even a fan (which will make the place smell a bit).
Once dry, replaster. DO NOT use the damp stuff you proposed. All that happens is it will disguise any future problem you may have. If damp does start again, it will not penetrate it and so will find another way. Maybe popping tiles eventually in the bathroom.
Obviously important to rule out any pipe leaks the other side, and remember that the seal around the bath is never a forever thing. If and when it starts to come away in years to come, deal with it.
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I bet there is a leaking pipe.. my neighbour had.. and damaged my walls >:(
break the wall , find the leak and change the pipe with plastic type.. and then fitting all is the reverse of removal ;D
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Thanks again all, so I had someone come take a look tonight.
His first thoughts were the tiles ??? - 3 of the 4 walls are tiled, with the wall affected by damp the other side being on of the ones tiled. Now there is some discoloration but not a massive amount. :-\
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/803897/Flat/DIY/Photo%2003-04-2012%2019%2043%2000.jpg)
As to OOMV6, hinted it has been like that for some time. To be honest there were small traces of it when I moved in (Aug 2010) - So it could be its just taken time to soak through.
Chap who came, was convinced it was only the tiles & wanted £200 notes to remove bath & re-tile about half way up, as he said thats where it is. To be fair the marks on the wall do stop about 5 feet up, but I'm not 100% convinced.
Think a PM might be going Martian's way in the hope some of his mates in the trade might be interested!
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reminds me, must repaint the ceiling wher my bath leaked ::)
Have you removed bath panel?
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Jeebuz .. you shower in that? :o Find that man some bleach, stat! ;D
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reminds me, must repaint the ceiling wher my bath leaked ::)
Have you removed bath panel?
No its tiled, although i thought it was more solid than just a panel, I'm going to see if it can come out as "one"
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Jeebuz .. you shower in that? :o Find that man some bleach, stat! ;D
Yeh its not at its best ::)
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I've managed to yank a corner bit off, looks like tiles stuck to a wooden frame. Where the floor tiles meet the panel ones, its all joined/grouted together, so guess have to take off tiles :( :-\
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Yeah that's how mine is - a pain in the ass if you ever need to get under there. Fortunately for me, they thought to put a little inspection hatch in (now retained by a magnetic catch rather than the wadded up bog roll the previous owners had it wedged shut with ;D)..
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Man up and rip it all out Tunnie!! :y
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Man up and rip it all out Tunnie!! :y
Its looking that way, with my luck though it will be dry under there and I made a big mess for nothing ;D
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I've managed to yank a corner bit off, looks like tiles stuck to a wooden frame. Where the floor tiles meet the panel ones, its all joined/grouted together, so guess have to take off tiles :( :-\
See, this is why I have carpet on the floor and on the bath panel. 2 screws and the whole lot comes of easy. And more comfortable to walk on etc.
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I've managed to yank a corner bit off, looks like tiles stuck to a wooden frame. Where the floor tiles meet the panel ones, its all joined/grouted together, so guess have to take off tiles :( :-\
See, this is why I have carpet on the floor and on the bath panel. 2 screws and the whole lot comes of easy. And more comfortable to walk on etc.
With you there, those tiles are blinking freezing in the winter ;D
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I've managed to yank a corner bit off, looks like tiles stuck to a wooden frame. Where the floor tiles meet the panel ones, its all joined/grouted together, so guess have to take off tiles :( :-\
See, this is why I have carpet on the floor and on the bath panel. 2 screws and the whole lot comes of easy. And more comfortable to walk on etc.
Did you see the state of his grout though? Imagine what a carpet would end up looking like! ;) ;D
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Reminded me of my mates place when he was single. When in the shower you tried not to touch anything, especially the shower curtain as it was alive! and was one of the cheapo ones that clung to you when wet........ :(
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Man up and rip it all out Tunnie!! :y
This is the problem is it not? These days we like to box everything in to look nice and tidy, I did this in our loo, fine and dandy, top shelf comes away in case I need to get into the cistern... :y
Now then, when the flush stops working and you need to gain proper access it meant pulling away all the boxing in, that I had not designed for easy removal.............still need to get it all sorted...... ::) ::) ::)
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Jeebuz .. you shower in that? :o Find that man some bleach, stat! ;D
Yeh its not at its best ::)
You may as well rip that bathroom out tunnie and have a new one now.....as if you have mrs t moving in, that will happen anyway ;)
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Jeebuz .. you shower in that? :o Find that man some bleach, stat! ;D
Yeh its not at its best ::)
You may as well rip that bathroom out tunnie and have a new one now.....as if you have mrs t moving in, that will happen anyway ;)
Never a truer word said.. Then again, do it now and it'll all be wrong by the time she does move in. ::)
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Its actuall quite presentable if I bothered to clean it ::)
Figured not going to get anywhere until I see under the bath, so going to get drastic tonight and strip off the tiles on the panel