Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Webby the Bear on 10 April 2012, 21:06:53
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Well big thanks to MarkDTM for the disspac he sent to me. unfortunately Ralf still sounds like a tank as per below. Any ideas on what this sounds like? It sounds to me as if something is moving around in't engine and therefore condemning this engine as being fubar'd. might be a candidate to practise an engine swap ;) but let's see what other possibilities could be. ill do paperclip this weekend.
just wanted initial thoughts tho
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/th_MOV003.jpg) (http://s1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/?action=view¤t=MOV003.mp4)
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Egr and relevant pipe work secure?
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Egr and relevant pipe work secure?
Yep :y
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What's the history then?
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What's the history then?
Well I spoke to Ralf (the real Ralf) before I bought it and there was no misfire. He had the cam cover gaskets done and then this what seems like a missfire develops. I redo the CC gaskets, replace plugs, replace HT leads and replace disspac... and still sounds like this :o
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:o Sounds like my old diesel ...is the manifold blowing :-\
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:o Sounds like my old diesel ...is the manifold blowing :-\
no idea mate. i didnt know to check them.
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Its a job to say what it could be , mine sounded similar when the secondary air pipe was off so you could check the connections are tight .
The long pipe in front of the cambelt cover . Just a thought .
(http://images.omegaowners.com/images/guides/condensor/removetrumpets.jpg)
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:o Sounds like my old diesel ...is the manifold blowing :-\
no idea mate. i didnt know to check them.
hence my question re egr. It sounds like a knock to me. Either lifters, or exhaust(which can sound like a knock)
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:o Sounds like my old diesel ...is the manifold blowing :-\
no idea mate. i didnt know to check them.
hence my question re egr. It sounds like a knock to me. Either lifters, or exhaust(which can sound like a knock)
ok thanks chaps.
i'll check the codes too as obviously there may be something lurking in there too.
so sorry to be thick but i check the connections on the big pip at ze front. make sure the EGR is all done up and then check manifolds for 'blowing'. what are lifters?
chgeers all :y
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Hard to diagnose from mp4 mate - but could be leaking exhaust manifold or sticky hydraulic lifter.
Does it quieten down once its warmed up a bit?
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Hard to diagnose from mp4 mate - but could be leaking exhaust manifold or sticky hydraulic lifter.
Does it quieten down once its warmed up a bit?
oh defo mate... just wanted to see if it was anything obvious ;)
ill be honest it is so loud i get embarrassed and switch it off. ;D
just been pn the tube to look at lifter noises and certainly sounds quite similar to what others have posted.
i then found our guide...
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90529.0
got to be honest i'm a bit confused by it. but i have no fear lol so would you suggest i whip off the cam covers and try and service these lifters first? does it register a code if lifters are dodgy?
:y
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Hard to diagnose from mp4 mate - but could be leaking exhaust manifold or sticky hydraulic lifter.
Does it quieten down once its warmed up a bit?
oh defo mate... just wanted to see if it was anything obvious ;)
ill be honest it is so loud i get embarrassed and switch it off. ;D
just been pn the tube to look at lifter noises and certainly sounds quite similar to what others have posted.
i then found our guide...
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90529.0
got to be honest i'm a bit confused by it. but i have no fear lol so would you suggest i whip off the cam covers and try and service these lifters first? does it register a code if lifters are dodgy?
:y
Nope
Before you go stripping top end down give this (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WYNNS-Hydraulic-Valve-Lifter-Treatment-8v-16v-24v-12v-/290136699178?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item438d7eb12a) a try (its cheaper!!) :y Worth doing a couple of quick oil & filter changes too
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cool thanx dbug.
ok, ill see if i can source a video to fix this. :y
if lifters have to be replaced are we talking mega bucks? its tempting to say go on then ill spend more dosh but i think if it needs stuff replacing it'll be a case of continue with my schedule and get rid of it ;)
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Replacing lifters is a camshafts out job and lifters aren't cheap + there's 24 of the the tinkers :-\
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i take it youve checked that its all timed up correctly, it sounds like a v6 elite i had when the belt had jumped tbh.
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Aye. My old Elite sounded like that when 1 camshaft was a tooth out, 2 were 2 tooth out and the last fooker was 4 :o :o It didn't bend the valves but man it sound rough
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Aye. My old Elite sounded like that when 1 camshaft was a tooth out, 2 were 2 tooth out and the last fooker was 4 :o :o It didn't bend the valves but man it sound rough
yep, same as the vid tbh.
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Nice one chaps. you are the best. cambelt was next job so thats a result!
i say ill do the cambelt, get that timed correctly. then if it still sounds rough i was then going to do HG job so i had to take the camshafts out anyway :)
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Here's a thing i've just thought of. feel free to shout me down if i'm wrong lol
but if the timing belt was out would there not be a code come up from the cam sensor?
i've not paperclipped yet but just wondering if i saw that tyhat wud confirm it
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Wasn't when mine were out
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i think the first thing i would have looked at would be the cam timing tbh, get the front cover off her & get a locking kit on it, put you a pint on the cams being out. :y
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i think the first thing i would have looked at would be the cam timing tbh, get the front cover off her & get a locking kit on it, put you a pint on the cams being out. :y
Wonderful! Cheers lads.
It's perfect really.... was going to do timing belt next anyway. then HG which involves getting the camshafts out... so perfect timing really (no pun)
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Was ralfie always running as bad as that like in the video , just wondering if it wasnt then you have to trace back and see if you have moved/dislodged or forgotten to tighten something up . Surely ralf wasnt running round the streets like that when owner ralf had ralfie ;)
The more you listen to the video the more it sounds like exhaust manifold imo :y
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yep, it ran that bad the day i got it :)
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yep, it ran that bad the day i got it :)
:o
Oh i see , not good then . Think it needs an oofer mechanic to give it the once over b4 you go spending anymore money on it but all depends if you want to still tinkle on it yourself for practice :-\ Are you planning on doing all the work for mot and then sell it :)
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yep, it ran that bad the day i got it :)
:o
Oh i see , not good then . Think it needs an oofer mechanic to give it the once over b4 you go spending anymore money on it but all depends if you want to still tinkle on it yourself for practice :-\ Are you planning on doing all the work for mot and then sell it :)
nar mate i aint spending any dosh on it. it's just for practising jobs on. ;)
if it works as a reasult of one of those jobs fixing it then great. if not, i shall donate it to the college to be worked on ;)
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What's the history then?
Well I spoke to Ralf (the real Ralf) before I bought it and there was no misfire. He had the cam cover gaskets done and then this what seems like a missfire develops. I redo the CC gaskets, replace plugs, replace HT leads and replace disspac... and still sounds like this :o
Well, as it was purchased as is, if it was me I'd start with the simple stuff first and work in deeper. Start with leaks and breakages, change the oil and add wyyns, then cam timing/crank it by hand, etc remove egr pipe see of it's cracked split or leaking. If still no good, cams out and check litters although an experienced eye would be handy there.
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What's the history then?
Well I spoke to Ralf (the real Ralf) before I bought it and there was no misfire. He had the cam cover gaskets done and then this what seems like a missfire develops. I redo the CC gaskets, replace plugs, replace HT leads and replace disspac... and still sounds like this :o
Well, as it was purchased as is, if it was me I'd start with the simple stuff first and work in deeper. Start with leaks and breakages, change the oil and add wyyns, then cam timing/crank it by hand, etc remove egr pipe see of it's cracked split or leaking. If still no good, cams out and check litters although an experienced eye would be handy there.
That is defo the most sensible course of action. cheers chris. :y
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What's the history then?
Well I spoke to Ralf (the real Ralf) before I bought it and there was no misfire. He had the cam cover gaskets done and then this what seems like a missfire develops. I redo the CC gaskets, replace plugs, replace HT leads and replace disspac... and still sounds like this :o
Well, as it was purchased as is, if it was me I'd start with the simple stuff first and work in deeper. Start with leaks and breakages, change the oil and add wyyns, then cam timing/crank it by hand, etc remove egr pipe see of it's cracked split or leaking. If still no good, cams out and check litters although an experienced eye would be handy there.
That is defo the most sensible course of action. cheers chris. :y
Not forgetting exhaust manifolds for leaks, and a peer down the plug wells into the boor looking for valve marks in the pistons. Although it would struggle to run at all with bent valves.
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What's the history then?
Well I spoke to Ralf (the real Ralf) before I bought it and there was no misfire. He had the cam cover gaskets done and then this what seems like a missfire develops. I redo the CC gaskets, replace plugs, replace HT leads and replace disspac... and still sounds like this :o
Well, as it was purchased as is, if it was me I'd start with the simple stuff first and work in deeper. Start with leaks and breakages, change the oil and add wyyns, then cam timing/crank it by hand, etc remove egr pipe see of it's cracked split or leaking. If still no good, cams out and check litters although an experienced eye would be handy there.
That is defo the most sensible course of action. cheers chris. :y
Not forgetting exhaust manifolds for leaks, and a peer down the plug wells into the boor looking for valve marks in the pistons. Although it would struggle to run at all with bent valves.
Thanks chris.
this may be a silly Q but ill ask it anyway..... the exhaust manifold is to the left as you look at the engine?
can you give me a position marker as to where exactly i should be looking? is it right below the camshafts on the left (egr side)? :)
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yep, it ran that bad the day i got it :)
:o
Oh i see , not good then . Think it needs an oofer mechanic to give it the once over b4 you go spending anymore money on it but all depends if you want to still tinkle on it yourself for practice :-\ Are you planning on doing all the work for mot and then sell it :)
nar mate i aint spending any dosh on it. it's just for practising jobs on. ;)
if it works as a reasult of one of those jobs fixing it then great. if not, i shall donate it to the college to be worked on ;)
The oof college :) Makes a good practice car for yourself like you say ..never done exhaust manifolds on the v6 so thats unknown territory for me ....i hope its an easy fix ::) :y
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yep, it ran that bad the day i got it :)
:o
Oh i see , not good then . Think it needs an oofer mechanic to give it the once over b4 you go spending anymore money on it but all depends if you want to still tinkle on it yourself for practice :-\ Are you planning on doing all the work for mot and then sell it :)
nar mate i aint spending any dosh on it. it's just for practising jobs on. ;)
if it works as a reasult of one of those jobs fixing it then great. if not, i shall donate it to the college to be worked on ;)
The oof college :) Makes a good practice car for yourself like you say ..never done exhaust manifolds on the v6 so thats unknown territory for me ....i hope its an easy fix ::) :y
hmmmm when you say youve never done one... you mean replaced one? sorry im just a little confused about what ive got to do with the manifold and its location
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Yeah never replaced a broken manifold bolt or gasket / or a cracked manifold on a v6 .
So this picture is not from an omega but same principal in fitment to the heads .
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT7-wsZyu69TrhGO4mYaypF0CScficd7G7H396B3gonw0Zm8F2CN-rjGqk5)
You have one exhaust manifold either side of the engine block ;)
Someone less useless than me might be able to explain it a bit better ,just trying to help :) ;)
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Cheers EMD ;)
So as you look at the engine as if you were going to work on it you have exhaust on the left and intake on the right?
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Airbox to multirams via plenum via fuel intake is your intake .
Exhaust manifolds are both sides :)
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What's the history then?
Well I spoke to Ralf (the real Ralf) before I bought it and there was no misfire. He had the cam cover gaskets done and then this what seems like a missfire develops. I redo the CC gaskets, replace plugs, replace HT leads and replace disspac... and still sounds like this :o
Well, as it was purchased as is, if it was me I'd start with the simple stuff first and work in deeper. Start with leaks and breakages, change the oil and add wyyns, then cam timing/crank it by hand, etc remove egr pipe see of it's cracked split or leaking. If still no good, cams out and check litters although an experienced eye would be handy there.
That is defo the most sensible course of action. cheers chris. :y
Not forgetting exhaust manifolds for leaks, and a peer down the plug wells into the boor looking for valve marks in the pistons. Although it would struggle to run at all with bent valves.
Thanks chris.
this may be a silly Q but ill ask it anyway..... the exhaust manifold is to the left as you look at the engine?
can you give me a position marker as to where exactly i should be looking? is it right below the camshafts on the left (egr side)? :)
On drivers side is the EGR valve above cylinders 1 and 3. It connects the exhaust manifold to the Plenum in order to deal with emissions under certain circumstances and conditions. It job is to control "E"xhaust "G"as "R"e-circulation with it's internal electrically operated valve.
Becsuse it deals with exhaust, if it leaks, or the associated pipe work cracks it's most likely you'll here a very similar noise to a leaking exhaust manifold gasket.
You'll see where the cast exhaust manifold is by following the EGR flexible looking pipe work down the drivers side of the engine, bolted to the manifold via large 24(?) mill nut, just inside the coolant transfer pipe. There is one manifold per bank of 3 cylinders. But only the drivers side has the EGR pipework fitted.
Manifolds are difficult to see as they ate mostly covered by heat shields.
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Thanks very much for that explanation :y
Am i able to get to remove the heat shields to get to the manifolds if i did locate a leak? and are they easily replaceable if it was the manifold itself thats fubared or would i have to take out the cams to get access to remove/replace?
:y
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Nothing to do with the cams webby.They bolt to the side of the heads and the exhaust downpipes then bolt to the manifolds.
They are very awkward to remove.Ive never done it with the engine in the car,but iirc the engine mounts need undoing and the engine jacked up off the mounts to give enough access.
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Nothing to do with the cams webby.They bolt to the side of the heads and the exhaust downpipes then bolt to the manifolds.
They are very awkward to remove.Ive never done it with the engine in the car,but iirc the engine mounts need undoing and the engine jacked up off the mounts to give enough access.
lol
lets hope its not that then ;D ;D ;D
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Nothing to do with the cams webby.They bolt to the side of the heads and the exhaust downpipes then bolt to the manifolds.
They are very awkward to remove.Ive never done it with the engine in the car,but iirc the engine mounts need undoing and the engine jacked up off the mounts to give enough access.
:o Bloody hel , not a half hour job then ::)
Good job you bought that trolley jack for ralfie ;)
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Nothing to do with the cams webby.They bolt to the side of the heads and the exhaust downpipes then bolt to the manifolds.
They are very awkward to remove.Ive never done it with the engine in the car,but iirc the engine mounts need undoing and the engine jacked up off the mounts to give enough access.
:o Bloody hel , not a half hour job then ::)
Good job you bought that trolley jack for ralfie ;)
hahaha i will give abything a go....
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I think I would be checking the cam belt and timing just in case, its an hours job and if you going to be starting and stopping it, gives you piece of mind that your not going to have to rebuild the top end if it does let go ;)
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I think I would be checking the cam belt and timing just in case, its an hours job and if you going to be starting and stopping it, gives you piece of mind that your not going to have to rebuild the top end if it does let go ;)
would have been the first thing i did tbh. :y
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I think I would be checking the cam belt and timing just in case, its an hours job and if you going to be starting and stopping it, gives you piece of mind that your not going to have to rebuild the top end if it does let go ;)
would have been the first thing i did tbh. :y
i will do that next ;) well, after my rear brake job ;)