Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: omega3000 on 19 April 2012, 17:32:15
-
When reversing and braking ie off the drive im getting a brake squeal from the rear , the whole brake system has had a overhaul including replacement pins and squeal plates ...handbrake shoes and drum were rubbed down and cleaned . Strange ???
-
What rear pads fitted?
Are the hand brake shoes binding a fraction?
-
Did you apply any Copper Slip?
-
What rear pads fitted?
Are the hand brake shoes binding a fraction?
Pads were ok , dont know what make they were though and shoes were adjusted to bind very slightly .
Did you apply any Copper Slip?
Copper slip applied .
-
What rear pads fitted?
Are the hand brake shoes binding a fraction?
Pads were ok , dont know what make they were though and shoes were adjusted to bind very slightly .
Did you apply any Copper Slip?
Copper slip applied .
There ya go. Proof. Copper slip does not stop brake squeal. Ask TheBoy. He'll tell you the same. ;)
And ask Kai as well. Pads dripping in copper slip and squealing like a squadron of stuck pigs. Flying pig pun intended. ;)
-
So ill clean off all the copper slip .
What shall i replace that with ...normal grease or that white grease stuff :)
-
I always use copper grease, never, ever had squeaky brakes before this set. Guess who fitted them ;D
-
I always use copper grease, never, ever had squeaky brakes before this set. Guess who fitted them ;D
???
Think ill try a new set and see how it goes :y
-
I always use copper grease, never, ever had squeaky brakes before this set. Guess who fitted them ;D
No idea Jammie :-\ :-\ ........ any clues? ::) ::) ::)
-
Copperslip rules OK ;)
-
Copper slip has no place on brake systems! :)
-
Copper slip has no place on brake systems! :)
I think you're on your own with that theory. ;) ;) ;) ;)
-
Yep, and your all wrong!
Although I may concede it might make a slight difference of up to a week on very mild squeal cases.
There is absolutely no doubt it makes no difference to squeal on trade club pads. Proven. The end. You know it, I know it, accept it, move on! :)
-
I always use copper grease, never, ever had squeaky brakes before this set. Guess who fitted them ;D
You have copper slip on your pads, they squeak like buggery.
I have no copper slip on my pads, as it has no place on braking systems, and they don't squeal. Prosecution rests. ;D
-
Why do they squeal when braking in reverse though and not forward ???
-
I had the same problem, but in my case a small stone from my drive got lodged next to the disc and pad & only came in contact when in reverse :o luckily I discovered the stone before any real damage occurred :y
-
It only does it from cold though , once the car has been used and there is heat in the discs it wont squeal ??? Its all functioning as it should , i can live with it but just weird how its started doing it since the new parts were fitted and went through MOT with no problem . Pads were half worn so ill fit new ones and use grease on re-fitment instead of coppa slip and see what that does ::)
-
..... and use grease on re-fitment instead of coppa slip and see .,...
Not a good idea. Use copperslip or nothing, you dn't want melted grease over your discs & pads. ;)
-
..... and use grease on re-fitment instead of coppa slip and see .,...
Not a good idea. Use copperslip or nothing, you dn't want melted grease over your discs & pads. ;)
Well thats what i thought but in a post i read it was said that the high temp white grease was used on the back of the pads ...just a slight smear of it , ive always used coppa slip in the past ;)
-
..... ive always used coppa slip in the past ;)
So have most people, Chris is in the minority ;) ;)
IMO it's more important though to put a wipe of copperslip at all metal to metal contact/slide points between the caliper & the pad.
-
I wholeheartedly agree with Chris :y :y
No grease of any sort
Friction material and lube are not compatable
Quality pads sat in calipers with minimum corrosion/wear is the route to go
Reverseing squeal I think can be caused by excess pad twist/displacement due to lack of support for the pad from the caliper
Unfortuneately the recent policy of useing sticky additives to winter road de-iceing treatments
Means these sticky corrosive chemicals are forced in and stay around within cast iron calipers a lot longer
I try to minimise this problem by hoseing/flooding the calipers with fresh water when I wash miggy especially when de-icing road treatment prevails
-
Is it when driving backwards?
Or when braking backwards?
-
Obviously brake friction materials are normally used when the car is in forward motion. This can lead to a feathered edge appearing on the trailing edge of the pad / shoe.
Perhaps this is causing the squeal. If it gets particularly irritating, it might be worth removing the pads and filing a bevel on both edges of the pad to see if that helps.
-
For info, I've been slating trade club pads on here for years. The ones that come in the disc pad set. They squeal and give a very dead feel at the pedal. Or at least the ones from my dealer do.
TB, due to his crippleness, asked me to pick up a trade club disc pad set for him, and I fitted them for him. I refuse to use copper slip on brakes as you all know, no doubt, so TB applied his own copper slip where he wanted it. On the back and edges if the pad backing. All fitted job done.
Next thing, we get a thread on here. TB moaning about brake squeal and a dead pedal feel. Now TB can be a retard in certain areas. The state if his tyres seems beyond his understanding for instance, we all have our weak points. But I'm fairly sure he is capable of applying copper slip where he wants it, however fruitless an exercise that may. But if ever there was proof needed that copper slip is not a cure for brake sqeal, then that is it. Regardless of him admitting it or not.
I do agree with Andy Bedantic that the edges are a key area, and oe pads have shims that cover that area separating the pad metal from the caliper and stopping resonance. How anyone expects copper slip to last, not be forced aside by massive hydraulic pressure, survive all weathers and detergents AND stop brake sqeal and the resonance that causes it is beyond me.
But I guess just because somebody "always uses it" means that must be the cure, right? Maybe TB should rub it his spine, it will fix that as well. ;D although strawberry jam sales dept might come up with a reason why that might work better.
If you want to prove copper slip works, show me pads that squeal. Apply copper slip, and if the squeal us still gone in a fortnights time, then I "might" believe you.
Fact is, it didn't stop TB's from sqealing. Nothing said on here is ever going to change that.
-
Is it when driving backwards?
Or when braking backwards?
And is the squeal affected when reversing and gently applying the hand brake?
-
Is it when driving backwards?
Or when braking backwards?
Just squeals when reversing off the drive when the brake is applied going back . I never applied coppa slip to avoid any squealing issues as i had never had any , i just applied it more to stop corrosion of the back of the pads . Interestingly before i could replace the metal shim plate that hooks over the pins it was ok ..its just since i put the new plates in that its been doing it ;)
Hmm thats just got me thinking now as it never had any coppa slip on them before and it never squealed so since ive put coppa slip on it been squealing :o
-
Sounds like my last set of TC pads (from a "pad plus disk" set), tbh. They squealed like mad for the first half of their life, then quietened down. TB, being "heavy on brakes", can therefore take comfort in the fact that they'll be fine next week. ;)
When those pads failed unexpectedly, they were replaced by standard Mintex pads from the local motor factor, with no copper grease used. Haven't heard a murmur from them in 10k miles.
Now, if you want to hear pads that squeal you should hear the ones currently on my Westfield. Problem is, they work so well I'm putting up with them. ::)
-
It brakes on a knife edge , quite supprised how good the brakes are tbh . I dont do a lot of driving/braking backwards
;D so will put up with it for the mo :)
-
It brakes on a knife edge , quite supprised how good the brakes are tbh . I dont do a lot of driving/braking backwards
;D so will put up with it for the mo :)
There's yer problem. ;)
I prescribe a couple of hours of J-turn practice. :y
-
Back in Feb 2009 I replaced discs & pads on all 4 corners of Miggy
The rear discs are vented and at the time I remember I struggled to get these
A few months later I replaced the rear calipers
That was a long drawn out process
They are no longer made and exchange/ reserviced ones are available only
This means the integrity of the castings is very much in question and a matter of luck
With a great deal of trouble I managed to get a new (old stock) R/H one
The L/H one was an exchange reserviced one from a specialist firm which was as nearly new
This after rejecting at the dealers counter one of their S/order exchange reserviced ones
Since I did this job Miggy has had really effortless smooth positive progressive brakeing
And still is
However I think she may be now ready for some replacement pads as pedal travel has increased slightly
This after about 30,000mls so I'm not complaining :y
-
It brakes on a knife edge , quite supprised how good the brakes are tbh . I dont do a lot of driving/braking backwards
;D so will put up with it for the mo :)
There's yer problem. ;)
I prescribe a couple of hours of J-turn practice. :y
Swmbo will be impressed ;D
-
Ahh Kevin miggy's discs & pads are Mintex
Will of course be useing the same again :y
-
For info, I've been slating trade club pads on here for years. The ones that come in the disc pad set. They squeal and give a very dead feel at the pedal. Or at least the ones from my dealer do.
TB, due to his crippleness, asked me to pick up a trade club disc pad set for him, and I fitted them for him. I refuse to use copper slip on brakes as you all know, no doubt, so TB applied his own copper slip where he wanted it. On the back and edges if the pad backing. All fitted job done.
Next thing, we get a thread on here. TB moaning about brake squeal and a dead pedal feel. Now TB can be a retard in certain areas. The state if his tyres seems beyond his understanding for instance, we all have our weak points. But I'm fairly sure he is capable of applying copper slip where he wants it, however fruitless an exercise that may. But if ever there was proof needed that copper slip is not a cure for brake sqeal, then that is it. Regardless of him admitting it or not.
I do agree with Andy Bedantic that the edges are a key area, and oe pads have shims that cover that area separating the pad metal from the caliper and stopping resonance. How anyone expects copper slip to last, not be forced aside by massive hydraulic pressure, survive all weathers and detergents AND stop brake sqeal and the resonance that causes it is beyond me.
But I guess just because somebody "always uses it" means that must be the cure, right? Maybe TB should rub it his spine, it will fix that as well. ;D although strawberry jam sales dept might come up with a reason why that might work better.
If you want to prove copper slip works, show me pads that squeal. Apply copper slip, and if the squeal us still gone in a fortnights time, then I "might" believe you.
Fact is, it didn't stop TB's from sqealing. Nothing said on here is ever going to change that.
;D they do grind down a bit once they hit the metal .
-
I always use copper grease, never, ever had squeaky brakes before this set. Guess who fitted them ;D
You have copper slip on your pads, they squeak like buggery.
I have no copper slip on my pads, as it has no place on braking systems, and they don't squeal. Prosecution rests. ;D
The common demoninator on squealy TC pads is you ::)
-
I always use copper grease, never, ever had squeaky brakes before this set. Guess who fitted them ;D
You have copper slip on your pads, they squeak like buggery.
I have no copper slip on my pads, as it has no place on braking systems, and they don't squeal. Prosecution rests. ;D
The common demoninator on squealy TC pads is you ::)
That's denial, pure and simple ;D
-
Moaning at gayboy aside, I do wonder if there is a pattern. Being serious for a while...
Never had squeals before, gayboy says every time he's used TC pads he has. Upon questioning, he thinks all his TC pads have been ones that have been supplied with discs.
I can't, hand on my heart, say I've ever used pads from the disc and pad sets - usually other members have needed them more desperately than I have. So this may be the first set of pads that have been supplied like that.
And guess what? Whilst they stop the car, they are lifeless, with no feedback. And squeal like a pig.
Will find out soon, I need to replace these pads soon, going by mileage - they're about 4k in now...
-
I have also noticed that the pad friction material shows quite heavy cracks across the surface.
TheBoy, I would suggest changing them sooner rather than later.
I have had various theory's, but never really fully accepted that there are two sorts of trade club pads available. Given Kevs experience with pad material braking off, and your heavy on brakes... I think a quick trip to the dealer is in order.
-
So do yours squeal in any braking direction, as mine only do it when braking to stop after reversing ...im going to wipe off all the coppa slip and re fit them then see if it makes any difference before buying new pads :)
-
So do yours squeal in any braking direction, as mine only do it when braking to stop after reversing ...im going to wipe off all the coppa slip and re fit them then see if it makes any difference before buying new pads :)
Nope, not playing. ;D
-
The disc's and pads on mine are from the TC disc and pad set and do not squeal. They have covered about six thousand miles with no issue. IIRC they have stick on shims, not the wrap around one's. I will admit that the best pads for sharpness were the one's originally fitted when the car was new. Any replacements since have given a 'hmm, this could be interesting' feel when urgently needed. ::)
On a side note, I have never seen such a large leading/trailing edge as on TC pads. The contact face is seriously reduced by such a huge camber. :-\
-
Moaning at gayboy aside, I do wonder if there is a pattern. Being serious for a while...
Never had squeals before, gayboy says every time he's used TC pads he has. Upon questioning, he thinks all his TC pads have been ones that have been supplied with discs.
I can't, hand on my heart, say I've ever used pads from the disc and pad sets - usually other members have needed them more desperately than I have. So this may be the first set of pads that have been supplied like that.
And guess what? Whilst they stop the car, they are lifeless, with no feedback. And squeal like a pig.
Will find out soon, I need to replace these pads soon, going by mileage - they're about 4k in now...
The set I gave you were from a Tradeclub set, not sure if they ever found their way onto either of your cars.
-
So do yours squeal in any braking direction, as mine only do it when braking to stop after reversing ...im going to wipe off all the coppa slip and re fit them then see if it makes any difference before buying new pads :)
Nope, not playing. ;D
>:( ;D
The wheelie bin is quite near so if no joy ill slingem ::)
-
Ive used a £10 set of rear pads,copper greased them on the rear of pads and also where they fit at top and bottom of caliper and never squealed :y
-
Ive used a £10 set of rear pads,copper greased them on the rear of pads and also where they fit at top and bottom of caliper and never squealed :y
How do you know they squealed at all? If they squealed and applied cs to stop the squeal, and keep it stopped, them you'd have something.
IME the ONLY way to stop squeal properly is fit shims on all pads.
-
I have also noticed that the pad friction material shows quite heavy cracks across the surface.
TheBoy, I would suggest changing them sooner rather than later.
I have had various theory's, but never really fully accepted that there are two sorts of trade club pads available. Given Kevs experience with pad material braking off, and your heavy on brakes... I think a quick trip to the dealer is in order.
I've had a spare set here for a couple of weeks, as they must be getting down a bit. Just need to find time/strength to do it.
-
To cs or not to cs that be the question ::) not investigating just yet as swmbo had me running to the tip all morning with garden waste ::)
-
For a level playing field I think you need newish calipers :y
-
As an example, I always remember Kai's rear brakes. Absolutely horrendous squeal. Touch the brakes and it was deafening. He drive it round to mine to fit new pads. I suggested oe as they have the rubber backing on all pads and come complete with pins shims and springs. He agreed a bought them with him to fit.
On removing the old ones that where drenched in copper slop that was poring down and dripping iff the caliper, the problem was clear. No shims, but also, the thick paint on the metal backing had cracked due to piston pressure. The weather had then got in and rust had raised the area causing the pads to rock on the piston over the raised rusted area. As the frequency of the rock increased with wheel speed, so did the squeal. Ferrodo skimping on shims.
-
Well. Lets chuck this in the mix. I should state its early days yet, but....
Went to change the squealy MV6 pads this afternoon. Turns out I've been a good boy, and the pads are little over a 1/3rd worn. So a couple of thousand left.
As I had new pads, I nearly fitted them, but then, to for research purposes, decided to refit the part worn ones. Cleaned up, filed a better edge on the leading edge, and refitted.
Took it for a blat, the 'bite' feels better (or did before I cooked them), and the squeal is no longer present. Feel? I think its better, but might be placebo.
:-\
Early days, only done 12 miles. Fully expect squeal to return, as not really done anything different. But last time the squeal was there from the start :-\
-
They have enoooormous chamfers on them already... ??? Almost a third of the braking surface is lost because of it. :-\
Anyway, as you say, in the name of research let's see. :)
-
I think the standard chamfers are naff - too shallow, thus lose a lot of area. I noticed the entire chamfer was clogged with dust. Filed on a much steeper chamfer - about 45 degrees, down as far as about 4mm from backing plate. And only on leading edge.
-
Any cracks on the friction material surface?
-
Any cracks on the friction material surface?
No, if there had been, after hearing of Kevin Wood's problem, they would have been binned.
-
Thinking aloud, wonder if Kevin Wood's had been badly handled, maybe dropped or otherwise thrown about by dealer/courier/GM Warehouse, causing the brittle pads to start to fracture internally :-\
-
Possible I suppose, but fitting new pads, I wouldn't fit cracked friction material from new, mine where fine, yet showed minor cracks after less than 5k.
I wonder if a more even comparison between the in set pads, and on thier own pads, would be to swap them early? A more direct comparison?
-
Possible I suppose, but fitting new pads, I wouldn't fit cracked friction material from new, mine where fine, yet showed minor cracks after less than 5k.
I wonder if a more even comparison between the in set pads, and on thier own pads, would be to swap them early? A more direct comparison?
The part number for my new pads, and part number printed on the pads you fitted match...
Wonder if in Kevin Wood's case, if any mishandling was more hairline cracks, not immediately obvious when fitting? Its a worrying thought if its poor manufacturing.
-
BTW, went out in it today, still no squeal :)
-
Do you reckon dust is/was getting dragged in between the disc and pad when braking and causing the squeal?
-
BTW, went out in it today, still no squeal :)
Think you may have cracked it Jaime ;)
Normal way to get rid of/reduce brake squeal is to chamfer leading edges on disks or shoes ;) ;)
Do you reckon dust is/was getting dragged in between the disc and pad when braking and causing the squeal?
Possibly Chris - more possible that as pad wears a "raised" edge builds up on leading edge inducing squeal.
Agree that Vx chamfers on pads too shallow an angle over too large an area.