Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Lampynoiseboy on 12 May 2012, 00:47:03

Title: LPG Tank
Post by: Lampynoiseboy on 12 May 2012, 00:47:03
Have been speaking to Toby at Independant Autogas (very friendly & discount for oofers :y), and he says the vertical toroidal (spare wheel) tank for the mig is only about 48L. Bit smaller than I was hoping for as can't afford to lose boot space by fitting a torpedo tank.

Anyone know of a bigger one that'll fit in the space?

Or alternatively, are they metal or plastic? I have an excellent engineering guy (who could make a whole mig shell given time & budget) who would be up to the metal job, custom size & shape to fit, but would assume it needs to be certified/pressure tested by someone before use?

Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Lazydocker on 12 May 2012, 01:03:39
Pleased to hear you've been in touch with Toby... He seems to do a reasonable job ;)

The Vertical Toroidal is small, as he said... Could you not get away with the cylinder? How often do you actually fill the boot? ???

As for a custom tank... Can be done but it would need certifying  ::)
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Guinney1971 on 12 May 2012, 01:07:31
I've got a torodial in my estate, and it is 48L - I spoke to the LPG place when the serviced my system, and they said that a bigger tank, which would give me at a push another 10 litres, would cost about £500 to buy and install - which isnt far off what I paid for the car, so I'm gonna leave it as is.
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Lampynoiseboy on 12 May 2012, 01:32:25
Pleased to hear you've been in touch with Toby... He seems to do a reasonable job ;)

The Vertical Toroidal is small, as he said... Could you not get away with the cylinder? How often do you actually fill the boot? ???

As for a custom tank... Can be done but it would need certifying  ::)

The reason I am on my 4th mig is mainly the boot size, can't afford to run a van as well & need the seats. Until I can afford the £25k Vito sport with 5 seats & a load space the boot is always full  :(

How would I go about getting it certified?
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Lampynoiseboy on 12 May 2012, 01:33:23
I've got a torodial in my estate, and it is 48L - I spoke to the LPG place when the serviced my system, and they said that a bigger tank, which would give me at a push another 10 litres, would cost about £500 to buy and install - which isnt far off what I paid for the car, so I'm gonna leave it as is.

58 litres is better, who was that?
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Lazydocker on 12 May 2012, 01:47:26
I've got a torodial in my estate, and it is 48L - I spoke to the LPG place when the serviced my system, and they said that a bigger tank, which would give me at a push another 10 litres, would cost about £500 to buy and install - which isnt far off what I paid for the car, so I'm gonna leave it as is.

58 litres is better, who was that?

You can get a 76/7L tank in an estate with a little modification to the boot floor which gives 62-4L useable space ;)

A saloon, however, is limited because of where it goes ;)
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Lampynoiseboy on 12 May 2012, 02:11:54
Hence the idea of a custom.

If it is reasonably priced, may do more than one & have tested all at once.....if there's the interest that is  :-\
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: feeutfo on 12 May 2012, 08:06:36
A custom tank? Can't see that passing a safety check somehow, although I wanted to adapt an estate toroidal 4 hole to fit in an upright position in the wheel well by cutting off the lugs that bolt to the floor, the valves would never work in an upright from a lay flat, and a customised tank would never pass a safety check. They also have to have a certificate of manufacture iirc...?
Single hole upright valves are too unreliable IME. Flow problems, switch back problems, rattling float valve, awkward access and awkward fitting with no real fitting kit for the tank itself. Not to mention the hopeless range.

Whatever through space is needed occasionally, is outweighed by the continual need for cheap fuel and decent range. If there's a constant need for continual use of the through space, then get an Estate. It will be cheaper than a tested approved hand made tank.

IMO, fit a cylinder across the back seats and get a roof box.


Ps, what ever size tank Lazydocker has? ...I tried to fit a similar sized upright in the wheel well with help from tinley tech. It doesn't fit! But, with a bit of battering of the wheel well base I reckon it could be made to fit. It will fit in the space as is I'm fairly sure, the problem is getting it in, as the boot surround is in the way of it tilting and dropping in. Force the well floor over and it might give the half inch of clearance needed. "might" ! :)
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Guinney1971 on 12 May 2012, 08:29:17
I've got a torodial in my estate, and it is 48L - I spoke to the LPG place when the serviced my system, and they said that a bigger tank, which would give me at a push another 10 litres, would cost about £500 to buy and install - which isnt far off what I paid for the car, so I'm gonna leave it as is.

58 litres is better, who was that?

That was from LPG Conversions in Heanor, Derbyshire.  Peter at Fox's in Derby who did our Avantime said the same (no longer does LPG).

Both did say that it could be done though with major modification to the spare wheel well and making the boot floor abit higher (ie making one out of mdf to go between the carpet and floor).
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Lazydocker on 12 May 2012, 09:00:22
I've got a torodial in my estate, and it is 48L - I spoke to the LPG place when the serviced my system, and they said that a bigger tank, which would give me at a push another 10 litres, would cost about £500 to buy and install - which isnt far off what I paid for the car, so I'm gonna leave it as is.

58 litres is better, who was that?

That was from LPG Conversions in Heanor, Derbyshire.  Peter at Fox's in Derby who did our Avantime said the same (no longer does LPG).

Both did say that it could be done though with major modification to the spare wheel well and making the boot floor abit higher (ie making one out of mdf to go between the carpet and floor).

Not too much modification done to my wheel well, although there was some and I did have to get the cutting disc out, but I have raised the boot floor by about 3" ;) Was well worth it though, to get the decent range, and if I can get mine to look anything like cliffob's false floor does I'll be over the moon :y I really must get around to re-fitting the boot carpet and finishing that off, it's only been a year :-[ :-[
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Lampynoiseboy on 12 May 2012, 12:24:31
Looks like small tank or nowt then.

As I say, can't get a fag paper in the boot, and it's like that 24/7, roof box isn't secure enough & and estate gives not much more room if the load cover is used, which it would need to be to hide contents. Plus most stuff is too heavy to lift into a roof box, hence the dead self-levelling shock on my previous mig. Losing 3" of floor is obviously not an option either

Can't see an issue with getting a custom made tank tested if I could work out where to take it for that, and as I intend to keep the car for at least 4 years (fingers crossed) any extra expense would be well recouped.
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 12 May 2012, 13:04:45
Would it be possible to replace/relocate the petrol tank with a smaller one (say 20ltrs), leaving room for a second doughnut tank slung underneath?  ??? :-\
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Guinney1971 on 12 May 2012, 13:37:51
we've been toying with this idea with the DeLoreans, as they have a big petrol tank in the front frame section, and we were toying the idea of replacing that with an LPG tank of some description, and then having a smaller petrol tank in the spare wheel well.

We've got a twin tank set up on our diesel Cavalier, the main fuel tank runs bio fuel, and then we've got an old marine fuel tank in the spare wheel well which has diesel in it, and its all controlled with a switch over valve  and stuff under the bonnet (I'll show JamesCDXV6 later).
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: tigers_gonads on 12 May 2012, 15:02:12
I've got a torodial in my estate, and it is 48L - I spoke to the LPG place when the serviced my system, and they said that a bigger tank, which would give me at a push another 10 litres, would cost about £500 to buy and install - which isnt far off what I paid for the car, so I'm gonna leave it as is.

58 litres is better, who was that?

That was from LPG Conversions in Heanor, Derbyshire.  Peter at Fox's in Derby who did our Avantime said the same (no longer does LPG).

Both did say that it could be done though with major modification to the spare wheel well and making the boot floor abit higher (ie making one out of mdf to go between the carpet and floor).

Not too much modification done to my wheel well, although there was some and I did have to get the cutting disc out, but I have raised the boot floor by about 3" ;) Was well worth it though, to get the decent range, and if I can get mine to look anything like cliffob's false floor does I'll be over the moon :y I really must get around to re-fitting the boot carpet and finishing that off, it's only been a year :-[ :-[

I'll second that  :y :y

Met Cliff and his missus up at Stamford Bridge last year so I could get a look and took a few pickys
Absolute brillant job  :y :y
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: D on 12 May 2012, 16:06:26
Yes, I went through the same process. 48L = 38L useable space. Too small a range for something like the Omega. Filling with LPG is not as quick or enjoyable as petrol. So you dont want to be doing it too often, ie every 150 miles.

Problem with a custom tank is that it will need 2 inspections. On the bench and then on the car if I am not mistaken. Quite expensive.

I think Tinley tech do a replacement tank which reduces petrol capacity and gives about 60L lpg capacity. None listed for the omega, but I suppose they could fabricate one with the right spec. Again £300+ cost.
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Lampynoiseboy on 13 May 2012, 01:37:38
Yes, I went through the same process. 48L = 38L useable space. Too small a range for something like the Omega. Filling with LPG is not as quick or enjoyable as petrol. So you dont want to be doing it too often, ie every 150 miles.

Problem with a custom tank is that it will need 2 inspections. On the bench and then on the car if I am not mistaken. Quite expensive.

I think Tinley tech do a replacement tank which reduces petrol capacity and gives about 60L lpg capacity. None listed for the omega, but I suppose they could fabricate one with the right spec. Again £300+ cost.

Who on earth actually enjoys filling a car with petrol  ??? ???

Who/where are Tinley tech?
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Lazydocker on 13 May 2012, 01:45:05
Would it be possible to replace/relocate the petrol tank with a smaller one (say 20ltrs), leaving room for a second doughnut tank slung underneath?  ??? :-\

The trouble is there isn't enough ground clearance to comply with COP 11 ::)
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: TheBoy on 13 May 2012, 02:08:58
I've found short filling seems to harm economy, no idea why...

I guess a smaller tank will impact economy in same way??
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Lampynoiseboy on 13 May 2012, 02:11:14
Something to do with full being more than full? Or are you basing that on more than gauge/mileometer?
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: D on 13 May 2012, 11:13:15

Who on earth actually enjoys filling a car with petrol  ??? ???

Who/where are Tinley tech?

I do, its the payment that causes a bit of distress.

http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/ (http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/)
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: TheBoy on 13 May 2012, 11:26:04
Something to do with full being more than full? Or are you basing that on more than gauge/mileometer?
Dunno - I always fill mine until the LPG pump shuts off. I'm anal enough to always record my mpg, calculated manually, rather than MID (which is inaccurate on LPG)

One the 3.0l, if its almost empty, I tend to get around 19-20mpg.  If its over half full when I fill it (eg, prepping for long journey), I tend to get <17mpg. Can't explain it - a little gas is lost during fill process, but not enough to account for that...
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: TheBoy on 13 May 2012, 11:27:03
Who on earth actually enjoys filling a car with petrol  ??? ???
I do, its the payment that causes a bit of distress.
I can't think of anything more boring and tedious.  This is probably explains why I frequently run out of fuel  :-[
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: D on 13 May 2012, 11:53:29
I do often play the fuel gauge lottery. So it feels good when I get to a pump and fill up an almost empty car. Naughty I know, but I am a sucker for continuing on my journey till I find a pump that has the lowest price I have seen on the trip.  :-[
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 13 May 2012, 23:42:15
Would it be possible to replace/relocate the petrol tank with a smaller one (say 20ltrs), leaving room for a second doughnut tank slung underneath?  ??? :-\

The trouble is there isn't enough ground clearance to comply with COP 11 ::)

What's the required clearance LD?  ???
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Lazydocker on 14 May 2012, 01:51:04
Would it be possible to replace/relocate the petrol tank with a smaller one (say 20ltrs), leaving room for a second doughnut tank slung underneath?  ??? :-\

The trouble is there isn't enough ground clearance to comply with COP 11 ::)

What's the required clearance LD?  ???

Off the top of my head, 300mm, although I may be wrong :-\
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 14 May 2012, 01:58:13
Would it be possible to replace/relocate the petrol tank with a smaller one (say 20ltrs), leaving room for a second doughnut tank slung underneath?  ??? :-\

The trouble is there isn't enough ground clearance to comply with COP 11 ::)

What's the required clearance LD?  ???

Off the top of my head, 300mm, although I may be wrong :-\

300mm = 1 foot, Rings a bell with me too....

Ref TB's comments, I fiind exactly the same. more economy over a whole LPG tank, than shorter fills...
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Kevin Wood on 14 May 2012, 10:14:29
Off the top of my head, 300mm, although I may be wrong :-\

250mm is my recollection but I might be wrong.

I think it's one of those vague COP11 areas where they say "unless adequately protected", implying that there might be a way round it. I guess if you fitted it above the saloon tow bar in place of the petrol tank, for example, or built a protective guard around the tank, you could argue that it can't contact the ground as the tow bar / guard would contact first.

I would certainly be going down the route of binning the petrol tank to fit an off the shelf LPG tank, then a smaller custom made petrol tank to fit round it, than the other way round. Plenty of people will make you a petrol tank by TIG'ing a bit of ali together. Really not sure how you'd get on getting a custom made LPG tank. :(
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 14 May 2012, 11:48:28
That was my thoughts. If you fitted a tank in the recess where the petrol tank used to be, surely that would give enough clearance?  ???

I'm sure you could get a custom tank made.  It's whether it'd be worth spending the cash!!  ::)
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Lampynoiseboy on 14 May 2012, 12:45:21
If i could find somewhere to have it tested, the cost of having it made would be small consideration.

Although, if lpg tanks are available to replace the fuel tank, any reason i couldn't put a petrol tank in the spare wheel hole?
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Kevin Wood on 14 May 2012, 14:04:27
If i could find somewhere to have it tested, the cost of having it made would be small consideration.

Although, if lpg tanks are available to replace the fuel tank, any reason i couldn't put a petrol tank in the spare wheel hole?

Can't think of one, except that it'd be the wrong side for the filler.
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Lampynoiseboy on 14 May 2012, 16:08:58
If i could find somewhere to have it tested, the cost of having it made would be small consideration.

Although, if lpg tanks are available to replace the fuel tank, any reason i couldn't put a petrol tank in the spare wheel hole?

Can't think of one, except that it'd be the wrong side for the filler.

D'OH!

can't believe I didn't think of that......d*ckhead!!!
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 14 May 2012, 19:47:51
Could you fit a small petrol tank (15-20litres) in the cubby hole on the right of the boot?  ??? and have the filler inside the boot?  ??? or a detachable filler neck so that you're filling from outside the car if regs require?  :-\

Then you could put an LPG doughnut in the sparewheel space, plus a custom LPG tank (or even another doughnut if it fits..) in the petrol tank recess....  :) Hypothetical I know, but where there's a will..... and enough cash!!! There's a way!!!  :D :y
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: martin42 on 14 May 2012, 19:52:41
What about fuel pump aswell :y
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Ken T on 14 May 2012, 21:10:32
I've just checked up, my vertical toroid tank was 53L water capacity, about 24cm wide by  60cm high, see http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=45103.msg680406#msg680406 Obviously you loose 20% as a safety margin, provided no one has bent the tank valve float  ::)

Ken
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Ken T on 14 May 2012, 21:15:34
If i could find somewhere to have it tested, the cost of having it made would be small consideration.

Although, if lpg tanks are available to replace the fuel tank, any reason i couldn't put a petrol tank in the spare wheel hole?

Can't think of one, except that it'd be the wrong side for the filler.

There must be places that test tanks, its not rocket science. OK I don't know how they do it but...... as an example Model Steam Trains have their boilers tested. Maybe its about finding out what specs they have to meet and ringing around.

Ken
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Lazydocker on 14 May 2012, 21:21:56
If i could find somewhere to have it tested, the cost of having it made would be small consideration.

Although, if lpg tanks are available to replace the fuel tank, any reason i couldn't put a petrol tank in the spare wheel hole?

Can't think of one, except that it'd be the wrong side for the filler.

There must be places that test tanks, its not rocket science. OK I don't know how they do it but...... as an example Model Steam Trains have their boilers tested. Maybe its about finding out what specs they have to meet and ringing around.

Ken

I'm led to believe that the pressure testing of LPG tanks will run to about the same cost as a new one :-\
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: D on 14 May 2012, 21:43:17
TT only do 48, 60, 73 and 84L sizes now in a vertical torroidal. Plus 53L gives you a extra 4L of usable space. Not much benefit of trying to find old stock.

Very imaginative ideas above.

Can I suggest a simple option, but will invariably cost more. Get a vertical torroidal 48L + a tiny cylinder that is only 20cm in diameter and 70 cm in width to get an extra 16L of usable lpg. You will loose 20L of boot space but it is much less compared to a 80L tank. Downsides are cost and extra labour to get all the plumbing done.

A 15L cylinder is 20cm * 55cm giving you 12 extra litres, which may keep you even happier in terms of boot space lost.

You will loose through space, but it doesn't seem like that is your main concern.
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Lampynoiseboy on 15 May 2012, 22:40:09
Oh believe me, i can't afford 100ml of boot space, that's the problem

I like the idea of the small tank on the rhs tho

As for cost of testing, even if it's £300, over 5 years at least ownwership that's not the end of the world
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: D on 16 May 2012, 21:50:46
Your choice. But even with an 80L tank I am filling up far too often for my liking.
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: D on 16 May 2012, 21:54:14
Oh believe me, i can't afford 100ml of boot space, that's the problem

I like the idea of the small tank on the rhs tho

As for cost of testing, even if it's £300, over 5 years at least ownwership that's not the end of the world

http://www.adlerandallan.co.uk/services/tank-testing--pressure-testing-of-oil-tanks-and-lpg-tanks?gclid=COfA6ZDYhbACFYt-fAodvUBHlQ (http://www.adlerandallan.co.uk/services/tank-testing--pressure-testing-of-oil-tanks-and-lpg-tanks?gclid=COfA6ZDYhbACFYt-fAodvUBHlQ)
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: Lampynoiseboy on 19 May 2012, 01:39:13
Oh believe me, i can't afford 100ml of boot space, that's the problem

I like the idea of the small tank on the rhs tho

As for cost of testing, even if it's £300, over 5 years at least ownwership that's not the end of the world

http://www.adlerandallan.co.uk/services/tank-testing--pressure-testing-of-oil-tanks-and-lpg-tanks?gclid=COfA6ZDYhbACFYt-fAodvUBHlQ (http://www.adlerandallan.co.uk/services/tank-testing--pressure-testing-of-oil-tanks-and-lpg-tanks?gclid=COfA6ZDYhbACFYt-fAodvUBHlQ)

Not sure it's their thing, seems to be more big storage tanks, but have asked

 :y :y
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: albitz on 19 May 2012, 07:37:25
Your choice. But even with an 80L tank I am filling up far too often for my liking.

 :y :y.............mines a 60L tank (usually get around 50L in) and Im lucky to get 200 miles between fill ups.
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: TheBoy on 19 May 2012, 10:54:44
Your choice. But even with an 80L tank I am filling up far too often for my liking.

 :y :y.............mines a 60L tank (usually get around 50L in) and Im lucky to get 200 miles between fill ups.
Mines an 80l, and I sometimes struggle to get much more than 200m from a tank...  ...my record (in the 3.0l, which seems a bit more economical (gas and petrol)) is 308m
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: D on 20 May 2012, 10:55:34
80L and similar to TB. So imagine the range with one nearly half the size.  :o

I do drive uneconomically all the time.  :-[
Title: Re: LPG Tank
Post by: TheBoy on 21 May 2012, 19:02:01
80L and similar to TB. So imagine the range with one nearly half the size.  :o

I do drive uneconomically all the time.  :-[
I've found that LPG does lead to uneconomic driving....

...actually, I'm talking rubbish, Omegas in general encourage spirited driving