Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Nickbat on 12 June 2012, 23:13:18
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Quite shocking comparison here of our armed forces strength at the time of the Queen's Silver Jubilee and now.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18416646 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18416646)
"At the Silver Jubilee, the Royal Navy had 69 destroyers and frigates, now it has 19. There were 76,200 serving in the Senior Service whereas today it is 34,000. Of course the RAF has been hit hard too, with a force of combat aircraft about one quarter of the size that it was back in 1977, and the Army has lost two thirds of its tanks."
:o :o
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Shocking and Armed Forces should be increased not decreased
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And iirc we were not involved in any Wars then, I know they do not call it war- peace keeping, social intervention, protection, whatever, now but seems to be to me and possibly more to come...........;eaves us very vulnerable imo... :( :(
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At a time when things seem unsettled in the world I feel that we need to increasing our services not letting people go !
Feel so sorry for those this is happening to........... :'( >:(
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the BBC news got me on this one this morning. apparently some idiot wants to open the olympics with a parade of farm animals. what will the rest of the world think of that?
Made me rant at the TV - what about a fly past of the red arrows, a few condorde and a vulcan or two??? plus a bit of good old fashioned millitary marching bands and perhaps a few nuclear misiles - North korea style?
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Sounds like a good thing to be honest, we are not in any position to sustain a large military plus the figures dont take into account technological advancements which reduce the number of men needed etc.
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the BBC news got me on this one this morning. apparently some idiot wants to open the olympics with a parade of farm animals. what will the rest of the world think of that?
Made me rant at the TV - what about a fly past of the red arrows, a few condorde and a vulcan or two??? plus a bit of good old fashioned millitary marching bands and perhaps a few nuclear misiles - North korea style?
Sadly I don't think there is a single Concorde left in flying condition :(
That said there could be hope http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2010-06/4/concorde-may-fly-again-for-2012-olympics although it is an old story.
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the BBC news got me on this one this morning. apparently some idiot wants to open the olympics with a parade of farm animals. what will the rest of the world think of that?//....
Yes, I thought I'd misheard that one (to use some up to date speak) but when I ran the peice again it was painfully obvious that I had not.
As a result, I felt quite justified in muttering 'Ballicks' as I walked away from the screen wondering just what the hell was going on in this country.
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I would have thought that the blood-letting should have started within the portals of the MOD given the alleged mismanagement of defence budgets and cronyism (said to be) evident there over recent years.
One should always cut from the back - not from the front and, furthermore, one most certainly should always lead from the front and not from the back.
Ooh, I felt a wee bit of a rant coming on there but everything's cool, I'm down with the mellow - man. 8) 8) 8) :-*
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Sounds like a good thing to be honest, we are not in any position to sustain a large military plus the figures dont take into account technological advancements which reduce the number of men needed etc.
What do you class as a "Large Military" ?
Believe me, I can't really comment on the army or navy but when it comes down the the RAF most of our aircraft are not fit for task and the lads who keep them flying do so on a shoestring >:(
I've been out 22 years now and even in those days, the amount of bodging we did to keep the aircraft flying would scare the sh*t out of you civvies ;)
Believe me, it has not got any better :(
Spare parts ?
You take a walk out into the hanger and rob bits off the squadron "chrismas tree aircraft "
Order some bits and pieces threw stores then sit back while most of the spares are sent out to Saudi or else where to keep there kites flying :(
We are a island nation but because of the total cluster f*ck that was Nimrod mra4, we no longer have the ability to patrol and protect our own waters >:( >:(
Successive goverments bleat on about our "Nuclear weapons" on board the subs.
All I will say is that if Ivan and his chums want to make our subs nul and void, just sit underwater off the west coast of Scotland with a decient sonar and record the sound signiture as the slip out into the Atlantic. Once you have that, they can track you and you have no deterant >:( >:(
With nimrod, they could not get close enough ;)
When the nimrod was scrapped, we even sent some of the crews out and let them ply there trade with other airforces in a feable attempt to try and keep the skills learnt for the future :(
The Typhoon is our most advanced front line aircraft but in real terms, it is 10 years out of date and would get its arse kicked by even "so called" third word airforces like India.
While other countrys buy the latest spec, we make do with the poverty spec >:( >:(
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Sounds like a good thing to be honest, we are not in any position to sustain a large military plus the figures dont take into account technological advancements which reduce the number of men needed etc.
agreed Mr DTM..
todays news: Turkish govt buying long range missiles with a cost of 4 billion US$ :o
for who and for what.. with my money.. >:(
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Exactly, I am not willing to pay extra taxes for the military, we have greater priorities.
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All well and good if we can stop thinking we are the worlds policemen and keep sending our armed forces off to fight ill thought out conflicts which we are told wont take long etc.......
Anyone remember John Reid on Afghanistan "hopefully in and out without a single shot being fired ". ::)
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At the end of the day, the goverments first priority is the defence of the Great Britian and all its interests.
That should come before everything.
All goverments think about today is buying the next election victory by wasteing tens of billions on "projects" that keep people happy, hopeing these mugs will fall for it and vote them in next time >:(
If we didn't go round kissing the yanks arse, Sticking our noses in everywhere in the world in the name of democracy and throwing money at the United States of Europe and the asian continent discuised as "aid", we would have more then enough money to sort out our own country and for a slim BUT affective armed forces which could do the job :(
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At the end of the day, the goverments first priority is the defence of the Great Britian and all its interests.
That should come before everything.
All goverments think about today is buying the next election victory by wasteing tens of billions on "projects" that keep people happy, hopeing these mugs will fall for it and vote them in next time >:(
If we didn't go round kissing the yanks arse, Sticking our noses in everywhere in the world in the name of democracy and throwing money at the United States of Europe and the asian continent discuised as "aid", we would have more then enough money to sort out our own country and for a slim BUT affective armed forces which could do the job :(
The Job? That is the million dollar question. Do we need a bloated armed services with a bunch of MOD buffoons wasting money by changing the defence procurement every five minutes at vast cost to the tax payer? One positive advantage of being in the EU is that we ought just to be able to have a nominal armed service and chip in what is required. Instead we feel obliged to be at the forefront of every conflict probably purely to showcase our military businesses because they do earn a lot of money for the country.
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At the end of the day, the goverments first priority is the defence of the Great Britian and all its interests.
That should come before everything.
All goverments think about today is buying the next election victory by wasteing tens of billions on "projects" that keep people happy, hopeing these mugs will fall for it and vote them in next time >:(
If we didn't go round kissing the yanks arse, Sticking our noses in everywhere in the world in the name of democracy and throwing money at the United States of Europe and the asian continent discuised as "aid", we would have more then enough money to sort out our own country and for a slim BUT affective armed forces which could do the job :(
The Job? That is the million dollar question. Do we need a bloated armed services with a bunch of MOD buffoons wasting money by changing the defence procurement every five minutes at vast cost to the tax payer? One positive advantage of being in the EU is that we ought just to be able to have a nominal armed service and chip in what is required. Instead we feel obliged to be at the forefront of every conflict probably purely to showcase our military businesses because they do earn a lot of money for the country.
..and you think they (the EU forces) would help us out in the event one of our overseas territories was invaded? Now, that really is wishful thinking. ;)
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I seem to remember our European partners across the channel (France) rejoicing when one of their Exocet missiles hit a British vessel during the Falklands campaign.I dont think we are on any better terms with the snail eating surrender monkeys now than we were then. ::)
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At the end of the day, the goverments first priority is the defence of the Great Britian and all its interests.
That should come before everything.
All goverments think about today is buying the next election victory by wasteing tens of billions on "projects" that keep people happy, hopeing these mugs will fall for it and vote them in next time >:(
If we didn't go round kissing the yanks arse, Sticking our noses in everywhere in the world in the name of democracy and throwing money at the United States of Europe and the asian continent discuised as "aid", we would have more then enough money to sort out our own country and for a slim BUT affective armed forces which could do the job :(
The Job? That is the million dollar question. Do we need a bloated armed services with a bunch of MOD buffoons wasting money by changing the defence procurement every five minutes at vast cost to the tax payer? One positive advantage of being in the EU is that we ought just to be able to have a nominal armed service and chip in what is required. Instead we feel obliged to be at the forefront of every conflict probably purely to showcase our military businesses because they do earn a lot of money for the country.
..and you think they (the EU forces) would help us out in the event one of our overseas territories was invaded? Now, that really is wishful thinking. ;)
I disagree - if ever we wanted to raise a white flag we could always borrow one off the French. ;D
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I seem to remember our European partners across the channel (France) rejoicing when one of their Exocet missiles hit a British vessel during the Falklands campaign.I dont think we are on any better terms with the snail eating surrender monkeys now than we were then. ::)
Ssssssssh
Don't let them hear you say that :o
We have recently signed a agreement with them ;)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11670247
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At the end of the day, the goverments first priority is the defence of the Great Britian and all its interests.
That should come before everything.
All goverments think about today is buying the next election victory by wasteing tens of billions on "projects" that keep people happy, hopeing these mugs will fall for it and vote them in next time >:(
If we didn't go round kissing the yanks arse, Sticking our noses in everywhere in the world in the name of democracy and throwing money at the United States of Europe and the asian continent discuised as "aid", we would have more then enough money to sort out our own country and for a slim BUT affective armed forces which could do the job :(
The Job? That is the million dollar question. Do we need a bloated armed services with a bunch of MOD buffoons wasting money by changing the defence procurement every five minutes at vast cost to the tax payer? One positive advantage of being in the EU is that we ought just to be able to have a nominal armed service and chip in what is required. Instead we feel obliged to be at the forefront of every conflict probably purely to showcase our military businesses because they do earn a lot of money for the country.
..and you think they (the EU forces) would help us out in the event one of our overseas territories was invaded? Now, that really is wishful thinking. ;)
Aside from the less than cordial history between our two nations this idea of a common European Defence Force is nonsense to say the least – dissimilar weaponry, ordinance, defence infrastructure, tactical positioning, rank structures, strategic aims and of course language, to name but a few drawbacks.
The whole idea – rather like the rush towards European federalism – is merely a clusteropps to oblivion, with the ordinary Joe having to pay what will undoubtedly be a very heavy price for what can only be described as the outlandish dreams of cynical political operators in Brussels.
Someone needs to waketheoppsup and smell the coffee.
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Different countries /armies are there(for the common good apparently) in Afghanistan. They seem to manage alright.
Didn't Europe do a similar thing in Libya? Maybe there were operational difficulties but lets face it there are when two regiments from the same country are fighting somewhere.
What overseas territories? I guess you are referring to the Falklands Nick. Even when we had a large military defending the Falklands or repelling an invader was a virtual impossibility. Thank goodness for the Ascension islands (from our esteemed friends). Maybe we ought to spend money on ballistic missiles positioned on these overseas territories!
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Don't worry the woman with mad cow disease in charge of the failed land stealer country is too busy wreaking their economy at the moment and stealing Spanish oil companies so they have no money to spend on their armed forces, which are essentially using the same equipment as 30 years ago when they invaded the Falklands. The Typhoons and HMS Dauntless can mop up their motley air force in a morning.
Just hope we have a nuclear submarine down their as their navy would form a bigger threat as we couldn't afford to fit Harpoon anti-ship missiles to the type 45 destroyers, so this is an optional extra to be fitted at a later date. :o :o :o :o
The time to worry is if the failed land stealer country's economy recovers and they can afford to boost their defenses.
It won't be long to the next war, as we have almost run down our defenses enough ready for it, as per the 1930's. The Deputy PM Nick EU Slagg would make a good Neville Chamberlin, selling out to Brussels and coming back with a grubby bit of paper in his hand, saying Peace in our time we have solved the Euro crisis, forgetting about all the extreme Fascist and Communist European Governments that have elected as a result of it.
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Different countries /armies are there(for the common good apparently) in Afghanistan. They seem to manage alright.
Didn't Europe do a similar thing in Libya? Maybe there were operational difficulties but lets face it there are when two regiments from the same country are fighting somewhere.
What overseas territories? I guess you are referring to the Falklands Nick. Even when we had a large military defending the Falklands or repelling an invader was a virtual impossibility. Thank goodness for the Ascension islands (from our esteemed friends). Maybe we ought to spend money on ballistic missiles positioned on these overseas territories!
Jersey, Guernsey, IOM and I think we have to defend this lot, too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Overseas_Territories
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This is one of the reasons Germany is so well-off. No defence budget to speak of.
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Don't worry you can really trust the French as the Americans found out to their cost in the bombing campaign in Serbia during their civil war. The only F117 Stealth Bomber to ever be shot down was due to allegedly French intelligence leaking the flight plans to Serbia including entrance, exit routes and times. >:( >:( >:(
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Don't worry the woman with mad cow disease in charge of the failed land stealer country is too busy wreaking their economy at the moment and stealing Spanish oil companies so they have no money to spend on their armed forces, which are essentially using the same equipment as 30 years ago when they invaded the Falklands. The Typhoons and HMS Dauntless can mop up their motley air force in a morning.
Just hope we have a nuclear submarine down their as their navy would form a bigger threat as we couldn't afford to fit Harpoon anti-ship missiles to the type 45 destroyers, so this is an optional extra to be fitted at a later date. :o :o :o :o
The time to worry is if the failed land stealer country's economy recovers and they can afford to boost their defenses.
It won't be long to the next war, as we have almost run down our defenses enough ready for it, as per the 1930's. The Deputy PM Nick EU Slagg would make a good Neville Chamberlin, selling out to Brussels and coming back with a grubby bit of paper in his hand, saying Peace in our time we have solved the Euro crisis, forgetting about all the extreme Fascist and Communist European Governments that have elected as a result of it.
And that is a very good point :y
It makes me laugh that some muppets think europe is a nice stable friendly place.
Imo, the eastern side of europe is a powder keg just waiting to go bang :(
There is nothing more Putin and his chums would like then to have states like Latvia, Lithuania and Ukraine back under there control.
You only have to turn the clock back a couple of years to see what happened to Georgia when they pished off putin.
Europe was a simple place with simple rules back in the cold war era.
Now who makes up those rules is anybody guess :-\
Is it those who have the most natural resources or those of us that has the largest stick ?
Or even both ;)
The yanks don't care about europe anymore.
They are too busy building massive bases for there armed forces in Austrialia and having a face off with China in the far east :(
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This is one of the reasons Germany is so well-off. No defence budget to speak of.
In 2011 UK spent $62.7bn, where Germany spent $46.7bn., so not that big a difference. UK 4th biggest spender after the US, China and Russia, the French 5th with $62.5bn (you can buy a lot of white flags for that ;D) and Germany 9th.
Germany has a small navy and much bigger army that us 200,000 strong v 100,000, which is what you would expect for a Central European country.
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As for defending The Falklands.
Just use West Falkland as a part of the normal army training rota ;)
Send our lads down there on in 4 month training stints so that we always have plenty of bodies around incase daft cow gets silly again.
Simples :y
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Don't worry you can really trust the French as the Americans found out to their cost in the bombing campaign in Serbia during their civil war. The only F117 Stealth Bomber to ever be shot down was due to allegedly French intelligence leaking the flight plans to Serbia including entrance, exit routes and times. >:( >:( >:(
They lost that one because as soon as the aircraft opened its bomb doors, it lit up like a christmas tree on radar and the serbs was more then happy to fill it up with 23mm shells ;)
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Yep, radar signature is much bigger with bomb doors open, but they are only open for a very short time. It makes it much easier when you know the target and aircraft approach and exit times and routes, when you have been given by French Intelligence.
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very interesting chat/debate.. :)
now here is my opinion.. if the world economic crisis continue like that (obviously will) , war will knock the door..(knock-knock ;D )
now personally the last thing I would trust is EU.. this is valid for whole europe countries..
besides eastern europe countries historical genes/problems may complicate the scenario more than anyone can guess..
so the only trustable force at that moment is you /yourself..
and for UK.. you are in trouble , because you have multiple/far lands that you have to protect and long distances over the oceans
that you must transport numerous things to continue daily production and consumption.. so basically nothing has changed from ww2..
so, UK needs to maintain a high cost for both naval and air forces.. which will soon make you bankrupt.. :-\
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very interesting chat/debate.. :)
now here is my opinion.. if the world economic crisis continue like that (obviously will) , war will knock the door..(knock-knock ;D )
now personally the last thing I would trust is EU.. this is valid for whole europe countries..
besides eastern europe countries historical genes/problems may complicate the scenario more than anyone can guess..
so the only trustable force at that moment is you /yourself..
and for UK.. you are in trouble , because you have multiple/far lands that you have to protect and long distances over the oceans
that you must transport numerous things to continue daily production and consumption.. so basically nothing has changed from ww2..
so, UK needs to maintain a high cost for both naval and air forces.. which will soon make you bankrupt.. :-\
Agree with that Cem :y
But tbh, our problem is the procurement of our equipment.
The amount of money we have wasted in the last 50 years is breathtaking >:( >:( >:(
The UK is already seen a joke in many quarters on the global front because of our arse licking of the yanks in the past and a percieved attitude towards us.
Now its got to the point that we cannot even protect our own island and interests anymore without sucking up to a foregn power :( :( :(
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A friend of mine who is in the paras, destined to go down to the Falklands for a tour, has been diverted to another high security hotspot..............guess where.................................................
The London Olympics !!! WTF??? :o :o :o
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A friend of mine who is in the paras, destined to go down to the Falklands for a tour, has been diverted to another high security hotspot..............guess where.................................................
The London Olympics !!! WTF??? :o :o :o
He will be there to drive the london buses when them f*ckers go on strike ::) >:(
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This is one of the reasons Germany is so well-off. No defence budget to speak of.
In 2011 UK spent $62.7bn, where Germany spent $46.7bn., so not that big a difference. UK 4th biggest spender after the US, China and Russia, the French 5th with $62.5bn (you can buy a lot of white flags for that ;D) and Germany 9th.
Germany has a small navy and much bigger army that us 200,000 strong v 100,000, which is what you would expect for a Central European country.
And what does Germany do with it's armed forces? I'll bet they save a few bob on expending ordinance. ;D
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Fairly sure in Germany its national service for a year at some point? Or you can pay to opt out....
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Different countries /armies are there(for the common good apparently) in Afghanistan. They seem to manage alright.
Didn't Europe do a similar thing in Libya? Maybe there were operational difficulties but lets face it there are when two regiments from the same country are fighting somewhere.
What overseas territories? I guess you are referring to the Falklands Nick. Even when we had a large military defending the Falklands or repelling an invader was a virtual impossibility. Thank goodness for the Ascension islands (from our esteemed friends). Maybe we ought to spend money on ballistic missiles positioned on these overseas territories!
Now that really did make me laugh! ;D ;D ;D
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Fairly sure in Germany its national service for a year at some point? Or you can pay to opt out....
Blimey Mark, don't give our lot at Westminster any ideas! Don't forget you're at that very vulnerable age young man! ;D ;D ;D ;)