Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Bionic on 13 June 2012, 12:58:00
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???
Somthing is obviously far wrong with the back end of my mig cos even though Dazas changed a broken rear spring (as a pair) again just over a week later it has broke again on the same side. There is no apparent tyre wear or anything else obviously amiss cos it runs great. I do not thrash it unless I am a really good road and take extra care when on a rough road or over speed bumps etc. Is it possible that the shockers could be at fault?
Sometime before I bought it the rear shocks had been changed for standard ones and the air assist taken off. Don't know why but suspect that it was because of costs cos the previous owner was an old gent.
What springs would best suit it now. I had one go just after I bought it and that was the NSR too, I have had KYB's on by Daz and the NS one broke after a year or so. Daz changed the rear pair again just over a week ago which leaves me with a spare KYB as good as new which was taken off the OS. It was Daz that discovered that the air assist was disconnected too but I can live with that cos I don't carry any weight in the back anyway.
Anyone got any ideas as to why this should keep happening? I know that the Elites suffer from broken springs but surely not to this scale......
HeyHo. comes Saturday its up to Daz's I will go................ ::) :D
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S/L springs are softer than stock non assisted so expect that may be the history why they are more prone to breaking.
If a stock new springs is having such a short life it has either got to be the shock that is at fault or a poor quality spring but would have expected better from KYB,s.
Last year I replaced both my S/L rear shocks with genuine GM and also the springs with KYB,s and had no issues.Think you have just been unlucky IMHO so best bet would be to just fit 2 new springs and put it down to bad luck,although worth a very close look at the shocks first.
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Daz will have a closer look when I take it up on Saturday so the shocks will get a good look at then even if they have to come off to do it. I don't mind getting dirty as he well knows and I also trust his work. Pity my frikkin legs are shot to bits or I would get on with it myself but then I would miss an opportunity to see the (very slimmer) PINK one. The shockers look in very good nick, the mountings are good, there are no leaks and the length seems to be correct. The last spring that broke was a pigtailed KYB RJ5414 with 16.5 coils at the centre so its not exactly a light spring. I still have the unbroken one. They always seem to snap at the 1st full coil so maybe that is some kind of indicator?
Would be the rottenest luck in the world if this is just happening randomly, even Sod had more luck than that with the frequency it is happening ;)
Shed a light................... ::)
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Check the Kyb catalogue on line for the correct springs. V engine and 4 pot lumps are generally different iirc.
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Thought they were all the same ::)
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(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/dc1ef92b.jpg)
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OK Paul Daniels what is that supposed to tell us ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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"Not a lot"
Fetches coat . . .
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"Not a lot"
Fetches coat . . .
"I like it"......
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So does Debbie McGee apparently ::)
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The clue is in the first column where you can see a plus sign with a little picture of a vehicle with arrows pointing up adn down....which tells you that RJ6227 is the one for Saloons with self leveling
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The clue is in the first column where you can see a plus sign with a little picture of a vehicle with arrows pointing up adn down....which tells you that RJ6227 is the one for Saloons with self leveling
Know it all :P ;D anyway I was talking to Gayboy ;D
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The clue is in the first column where you can see a plus sign with a little picture of a vehicle with arrows pointing up adn down....which tells you that RJ6227 is the one for Saloons with self leveling
Know it all :P ;D anyway I was talking to Gayboy ;D
Hes to busy playing with wishbone bushes to respond :P
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Master sees everything Pinky. Including front and rear headings that are missing off the top of the page. ;D
Just to be overly clear after his post...
Rc numbers are FRONTS in the left column( some appear to have left and right by the looks :-\ )
The column on the right Mark know it all DTM quotes with Self levelling are REARS. As you might now expect. :)
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Just as well I used common sense and already downloaded the KYB catalogue and refered to it only to discover that the correct ones had been fitted anyway, RX5414. Finally bit the bullet and got a pair of new heavy duty ones from Germany complete with a 2 full year or 20k unrestricted warranty to see if they make the difference considering that it was the KYB correct ones let me down initially. The heavy duty ones are still barrel shaped but the coils are the same diameter throughout and not tapered at the ends. Also according to KYB it makes no difference which way round they are fitted vertically as long as the tailend at the botton faces the rear.
Time will tell and if I need to change the shockers too then I will.......... :D
See you Sat Daz, probably about 9ish depending on how many idiots get in my way....... ;)
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Just as well I used common sense and already downloaded the KYB catalogue and refered to it only to discover that the correct ones had been fitted anyway, RX5414. Finally bit the bullet and got a pair of new heavy duty ones from Germany complete with a 2 full year or 20k unrestricted warranty to see if they make the difference considering that it was the KYB correct ones let me down initially. The heavy duty ones are still barrel shaped but the coils are the same diameter throughout and not tapered at the ends. Also according to KYB it makes no difference which way round they are fitted vertically as long as the tailend at the botton faces the rear.
Time will tell and if I need to change the shockers too then I will.......... :D
See you Sat Daz, probably about 9ish depending on how many idiots get in my way....... ;)
Sounds like you DON'T have self leveling, which is what I thought.
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Just as well I used common sense and already downloaded the KYB catalogue and refered to it only to discover that the correct ones had been fitted anyway, RX5414. Finally bit the bullet and got a pair of new heavy duty ones from Germany complete with a 2 full year or 20k unrestricted warranty to see if they make the difference considering that it was the KYB correct ones let me down initially. The heavy duty ones are still barrel shaped but the coils are the same diameter throughout and not tapered at the ends. Also according to KYB it makes no difference which way round they are fitted vertically as long as the tailend at the botton faces the rear.
Time will tell and if I need to change the shockers too then I will.......... :D
See you Sat Daz, probably about 9ish depending on how many idiots get in my way....... ;)
Sounds like you DON'T have self leveling, which is what I thought.
He doesn't someone has removed the fuse for the pump, plus the shocks have no airpipe nipple, infact csmt see any airpipe. People thinking they are saving money I suppose :-\
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only buy the bestto hell with the rest :y
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Just as well I used common sense and already downloaded the KYB catalogue and refered to it only to discover that the correct ones had been fitted anyway, RX5414. Finally bit the bullet and got a pair of new heavy duty ones from Germany complete with a 2 full year or 20k unrestricted warranty to see if they make the difference considering that it was the KYB correct ones let me down initially. The heavy duty ones are still barrel shaped but the coils are the same diameter throughout and not tapered at the ends. Also according to KYB it makes no difference which way round they are fitted vertically as long as the tailend at the botton faces the rear.
Time will tell and if I need to change the shockers too then I will.......... :D
See you Sat Daz, probably about 9ish depending on how many idiots get in my way....... ;)
Sounds like you DON'T have self leveling, which is what I thought.
He doesn't someone has removed the fuse for the pump, plus the shocks have no airpipe nipple, infact csmt see any airpipe. People thinking they are saving money I suppose :-\
So .. non-self-levelling shocks but still with self-levelling springs fitted ???
Poor springs have been doing twice the work they were designed for by the sounds of it ....no wonder they break .... :(
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only buy the best to hell with the rest :y
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AHHH Right, that explains things. Thanks for clearing that up Gents. :y
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Just as well I used common sense and already downloaded the KYB catalogue and refered to it only to discover that the correct ones had been fitted anyway, RX5414. Finally bit the bullet and got a pair of new heavy duty ones from Germany complete with a 2 full year or 20k unrestricted warranty to see if they make the difference considering that it was the KYB correct ones let me down initially. The heavy duty ones are still barrel shaped but the coils are the same diameter throughout and not tapered at the ends. Also according to KYB it makes no difference which way round they are fitted vertically as long as the tailend at the botton faces the rear.
Time will tell and if I need to change the shockers too then I will.......... :D
See you Sat Daz, probably about 9ish depending on how many idiots get in my way....... ;)
Sounds like you DON'T have self leveling, which is what I thought.
He doesn't someone has removed the fuse for the pump, plus the shocks have no airpipe nipple, infact csmt see any airpipe. People thinking they are saving money I suppose :-\
So .. non-self-levelling shocks but still with self-levelling springs fitted ???
Poor springs have been doing twice the work they were designed for by the sounds of it ....no wonder they break .... :(
No Nige. Someone has before Bionic boight this car removed the rear air shocks plus springs and fitted standard springs and shocks. I can't see any air pipes plus the fuse is missing for the self leveling pump.
What is puzzling is why springs keep breaking.
If air shocks and standard springs had being fitted or standard shocks with leveling springs I could have understood why....
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:y ;D ;D ;D
Great, went up to Daz's yesterday and got the new untapered springs (got them for a really brilliant price too) fitted and the shockers and everything else related to the rear suspension looked at. No problems were found and as soon as they were on and test driven the improvement in ride quality was apparent. It is now a joy to drive and does not roll or 'boat' anywhere near as much on corners and bends. Obviously the tapered springs were not strong enough to sustain the weight of the car and further investigation has shown that although the JX5414 KYB springs can be fitted the original OE type are not tapered at all. Perhaps the tapered ones are great on a lighter car but I prefer the stiffer ones now fitted cos at least I wont get seasick again :D!
Frikkin small cars spoiled the ride back by doing as they always do and hogging the outside lanes while screaming along.... >:(
Nice day though Daz.......
Hope Gaz :-\ gets his sorted cos I cannot see it was anything we did other than unplugging that ABS sensor which had to be done anyway. He could have left the bearing and just told that other silly sod that he had just got himself a ;D 'Hummer' ;D : :D
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Glad your car is now sorted Bionic :y
As for Gaz's car, I think it must be all that grease he smuthered everywhere that has caused the abs sensor to not get a reading fom the driveshaft. Nothing else that was done would have an effect on it..
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Good to hear of your result. :y
Might be worth noting that the broken spring that came off my car today was tapered. I replaced with some ''SACHS'' ones that have equal diameter all the way round to the end.
Sounds like the tapered ones are not appropriate :-\ Lucky for me as I simply gave Eurocarparts my reg. number and they provided the Sachs equal diameter ones.... could have been given tapered and due to not knowing would have instralled and been none the wiser..... until they broke a week later like yours!
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Seen the linear ones brake too, as well as the progressive ones.
Seems to me it's more to do with stones getting trapped between the coil and lower rubber pad. Not much can be done about that I guess. :(
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Daz ;) you are probably right cos the amount of grease he plastered on would have done a dozen more! Pleased I never employed anyone like Gaz even if he is a great bloke and a good laugh when I was in business or I would have soon gone bust...... :'( Perhaps next time his supervision needs to be a little better ;D ;D First time I have ever seen an axe used to change a wheel bearing though so maybe he knew more than we did :D ;)
Took it out yesterday and gave it a good test over some very winding and hilly side roads with plenty of humpy bridges across the canal and it handled brilliantly. Checked it when I got up this morning (don't laugh) at 3:30 (ever tried to jack up a beast and remove wheels without making any noise?) and all was in order. Looks like that problem is now well and truly solved. Can't decry the KYB ones though cos maybe they would be ok on a lighter car than mine.
:y Thanx Webby, its nice to know that my experience was useful to somone else too.
::) chrisgixer's stones getting trapped between the coils? It did not apply to my spring break because when looked at the paint on the springs was undamaged and not chipped at all, plus I do not go anywhere to pick up large stones and even if I had the car would need to almost bottom out to use the stone to break it. That is somthing that I make sure I never do, even by accident.
:y Ain't it great when you can drive on bendy roads without the feeling of being at sea.............
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No, trapped stones between the spring and the rubber pad. Remove the springs and there are always loads of small stones trapped under there, in various sizes. Always. :)
It only takes one stone just bigger than the depth of the rubber pad to sit under there, with the spring bouncing up and down over it, and instantly there is a pressure point on the under side of the spring. Just is. ;)
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Finally managed to upload some pics ::)
Here's my broken spring sat next to it's passenger side brother which is not broken.... big bit missing!
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/Brokenspring.jpg)
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Nice clear pics Webby. There were no signs of any stones or stone imprints either on the top of the rubber cushions or under them on mine though. They were both looked at very, very closely and not just by myself. The daily clean off by high pressure hose, wheel arches and chassis included makes sure that there is no build up of debris anyway and the sheer weight of the car on the spring ensures that it is not possible for a stone to become lodged under the cushions and even at its most expanded size the spring still remains under compression. In my experience a fracture caused by a foreign object would generally occur directly on the stress point anyway and not at some point higher up the coil. No, I have now got the correct ones (untapered) fitted and life is great again. :y
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;D there wont be any stones there now, as the relevant section of spring has snapped off. ;D
Anyway, best of luck with these ones.
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Not discounting the effect of trapped stones (in fact they probably make it worse) but:
My theory is that single rate springs share all the flex over the whole length of the spring.
Rising rate springs use the thin tail to react to small bumps in the road (the type where there are thousands in every mile of road) while the fat section of spring reacts to the big bumps and/or when heavily loaded. The net effect is that the thin tail fails through metal fatigue long before a single rate spring would.